Hard Light Productions Forums
Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The Modding Workshop => Topic started by: dr22 on October 14, 2006, 02:51:18 pm
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Hi all; I just got trueSpace5.2 and am waitting for it to arrive. Is there a thread at hard light for trueSpace? If not maybe there should be?? Where all those that have trueSpace can go to talk modding fs2 with trueSpace. Just a thought.
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There are no particular threads for any particular modeling program. If you'd like to start one (like this is now) thats fine.
I dont think the thread you bumped is appropriate for what you asked. Bumping a 3 year old thread for an irrelevant post isn't the best idea. Please use better judgment in bumping...
Thread split off.
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Sorry Ididn't know I was bumping. By the way what is bumping? Then will this line or thread be OK to try and get help and talk about trueSpace? I just want to learn about moding for fs2 and play the game.
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As you've seen in the other thread, you now know the proper use of a bump. :}
Now... if someone would kindly give this fellow the advice he's requesting.....
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Hi All; Is anyone using trueSpace 5.2 right now for moding in fs2?
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Yep and above, what help can i give/direct you towards?
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Not for the modeling or texturing bits at my end, but I do use 6.0 for hierarchy and as the final conversion platform. (I'm *hoping* to cut even those ties soon.)
To be honest, TS is very difficult to model and texture with compared with most other 3D apps for a great many reasons.
It's ok for learning to model, and learning how things tend to work with 3d stuff, but once you grow out of modeling things from groups of edited primitive shapes, you really begin to feel the squeeze TS puts on your capabilities.
It simply cannot peform many operations other modelers can, and often those operations it can perform are much less stable and/or are longer and harder to achieve. That all said, it is quite good at hierarchy management, along with quick and easy rendering, I'll give it that much.
Sorry if that's not what you want to hear about here though - I'll answer any questions you have as best I can. :)
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Hi all; All information good and bad is always needed in order to move forward. I thank you for you help. I am now trying to make a space ship in the basic form right now. In order to learn how this program functions. It seems that the tutorials move way to fast for me to grasp which buttons they click in some of them. But I have also seen that after reading the pdfs that I have to read it then try it then read it again. Age kills haha. Thank You all again. Any help is always appreciated
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I know I can't really say anything, but I have to state that I find TS easy to use and straight forward. True, I've haven't tried any of the other programs so I can't really compare, but frankly TS does everything I want it to.
You really just have to learn the limitations. Everything I've done has been in TS. Yes, at times it can be a right pain in the neck, but then again so can any program.
Just don't try to texture in it. Except in the most general or simple cases. If you plan to do any real texturing, LilithUnwrap or another program is the way forward.
And as VA has already stated, seting up the hierarchy is a doddle.
Off Topic: That reminds me... VA? I kinda need your pof editing help again... :sigh:
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Well, I'm kinda busy ATM, but I should be able to take a look and hopefully point out the problem, so email away. :)
BTW, you really should try out another program sometime - if you can cope with the über-weird crap TS pulls on the unsuspecting modeler, you can cope with just about anything. ;)
To add to that, from what I've seen, you're already beginning to push up against the complexity barrier of TS. From where you are now, it gets very difficult or VERY time consuming (usually both) to go above and beyond in terms of ship greebles and overall ship complexity.
As I think I've mentioned once or twice in other threads, I'll be writing up a (few?) Blender > FSO tutorial(s) next oppertunity, so you could give Blender a go that way if you like. :)
(crikey, I seem to be on a blender/don't-use-TS crusade lately. I'm scaring me!)
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Hi All; Thanks for the input. I also have blender but as of yet I am not doing to well with it either. I guess my paitents is a bit lacking. Got to work on that to. VA, I would like any help you can give even in Blender. Of course it must be slated for those of use that are new to everything in both. More like a how to very slowly and with great paitents. Sounds great. I still have not even figured out how to in put mods into fs2 and I've read the stuff from wiki and all. I had the same problem with Descent3 until some one put it in a step by step format for me that even I could follow. Then I went great guns and made alot of mods that I even submitted to D3edit on line back in the day. The whole point is to say that I need alot of friendly help. I thank you all for any help you can give.
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Hint:
Blender.
Is.
Horrible.
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Personally I think that choosing a modeling program is like choosing a favourite ice cream flavour. You can't have an opinion on what is good unless you've tried it.
You only need look at Karma's Fenris model to see that TS can put out models as good as any other program can. So my advice is get a bunch of demos and try them all out. See what works for you.
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Hint:
Blender.
Is.
Horrible.
Oh really? :p
I'd guess you've not yet seen (http://webzoom.freewebs.com/twisted-infinities-va/TI-HTL-MobilePirateBase/Act1PirateBaseWIP21.jpg) what can be done in it (http://webzoom.freewebs.com/twisted-infinities-va/TI-HTL-MobilePirateBase/Act1PirateBaseWIP22.jpg) with a bit of work then?
Seriously, how much have you used it? Blender's interface is more unusual than most other 3d apps, and so it has a steeper learning curve than TS - but once you know the main shortcut keys, it becomes much much faster, and enormously powerful. However, without any sort of tutorial or guide, a complete newbie will probably run into difficulty, possibly scaring them away from it altogether.
Personally I think that choosing a modeling program is like choosing a favourite ice cream flavour. You can't have an opinion on what is good unless you've tried it.
You only need look at Karma's Fenris model to see that TS can put out models as good as any other program can. So my advice is get a bunch of demos and try them all out. See what works for you.
That's a good point. :) You're right that TS can put out good models in the right hands, but I wouldn't say as good as any other program. Everyone has limits on their patience, and because of the way you model in TS, it makes many seemingly simple operations very frustrating.
A good example is if you're in the middle of editing a mesh - say, just extruded a spike out of a face, and you want to put an identical spike behind it. In blender, you select the verts/faces/edges with box select or any of the other selection methods, press shift+d to duplicate them, y to constrain to the y axis, slide it back and click to set. Textures will be preserved.
In TS, you need to select each face (not verts), (which in itself can get tedious, because of the different selection modes, and the fact that you need to do it properly, or you won't be able to detach the selected verts from the rest of the mesh), then you need to click the detach from object button (if it will let you that is), duplicate the newly created piece, move it backwards, add-select the other spike, then Boolean them back onto the rest of the mesh - which will probably screw up the texturing somewhere, if it doesn't ruin the whole thing, or crash because it's unstable. Do some booleans on complex objects, and you'll get a lot of crashes. TS has crashed for stupid reasons more than all my other programs combined.
If someone sees that I'm missing some crucial hint here on how TS can do the above operation more easily, please, let me know. As such though, I can provide you with dozens of similar examples - where a seemingly simple geometry/texture edit is made tedious/difficult/unstable just through how TS works. :)
==================Mini-Tutorial-Feature-Guide-Thing!======================
dr22:
Ok, happy to help, though ideally it'd be with a nice new shiny tutorial. ;)
What I'll do here is write up an overall guide on how things work with blender. I won't handle all the ins and outs of getting a model textured and into FS just yet - that's a much bigger job. Just stick with learning to build ship meshes for now. :)
====Interface Stuff====
Right, when you start up blender, you'll see your start screen with the 3d window being the big main one, and another window with a control panel along the bottom. This can be completely customised to suit whatever viewing needs you have. For example, I have a dual screen setup, and I use my left monitor as ONLY a 3d window, and my right hand screen with my control panel down the bottom and usually the UV mapping window above that.
The active window is whichever one the cursor is hovering over - so you can't for example rotate the 3d view unless your cursor is over that window.
You can scale these windows however you want, and can merge or split them by hovering your mouse over the boarder between them and middle-clicking. You can change what each windows function is by clicking the square drop down icon in the top/bottom left of each window.
Have a quick play with that to see how it works.
====View controls====
You can use the mouse, num-pad or a combination of both. The arrow keys on the num-pad (8, 4, 6 and 2) will snap rotate the view in that direction in set increments. The numbers 7, 1 and 3 will snap the view to top, front and side respectively, and if you want to view from the other side (ie, from the bottom, back or other side), hold ctrl while pressing the number. (Eg, to view from the bottom, you'd hold ctrl and press 7)
The mouse pretty much just uses the middle mouse button and scroll to control the view. To rotate, just middle click somewhere in the 3d window and drag it around. Holding shift before middle click will pan the view, and ctrl will zoom (though it's easier to use the scroll wheel here).
The final two things to note about views are that blender can display your model from a perspective viewpoint or an orthogonal one. Num-pad 5 toggles this setting, and the "." key will centre and zoom the view on whatever it is you've got selected (works with whole objects, verts, and just about anything else)
====Modes====
Onto the editing part - Blender has a couple of different 3d window modes to it. Object mode is the default one - and it will allow you to select your various objects in the scene. To edit something in edit mode, you'll first need to have it selected (pink) in object mode.
You can find the rest of the modes by clicking the 'Object Mode' dropdown box which is towards the middle of the 3d window's control bar (not the control panel). Of these, edit mode is the only one you should worry about at this stage - and you should also note that to quickly get in and out of edit mode, just press tab.
====Editing Stuff====
==Selections==
Ok, Edit mode mainly works on whatever you've selected. Normally, this will be vertices because the wire-frame mesh editing is one of blenders strongest points, but it can quite easily be faces or edges too. To change what type of thing you want to select, you'll find the verts, edges and face select modes towards the right of the 3d windows control bar.
Let's just use verts for now, and we'll only fiddle with the default cube in the scene to demonstrate some of the other functions.
You can select verts/edges/faces in a number of ways, but the most common ones are to 1) press b and click+drag a box around it, 2) hold shift and right click next to all the bits you want (they'll turn yellow when selected), or if you want to select a number of verts that are attached by edges to each other, 3) right click one vert, hold ctrl and tap the num-pad + key, and this will add any verts to the scene that are directly connected to the ones you've already got selected.
Another handy thing is the a key. It will toggle whether all or no verts are selected. If you've got none selected, it will select all of them. If you've got some selected, it will deselect them.
==Editing Functions==
Ok, once you've made your selection (just select the 4 verts that make up one side of the cube for now), you can do just about anything with it. The main things you'll need to know about here though are the Grab, Rotate, Scale and Extrude functions. (each one is activated by tapping the associated first letter of the words.)
So, tap g to grab our selection, and begin moving it around with your mouse. Something to keep in mind here is that when doing it like this, blender will ONLY edit things according to the plane at which the selection is viewed. In other words and in this case, your camera will affect the 'plane' along which your selected object can be moved. Eg, if you press g while in top view, you'll only be able to move the object along the 'ground' plane.
Onto what you can do while you've got your object grabbed - there's a lot. To cancel the move, you can right click at any time and it will snap back to it's original position.
To snap it between pre-set grid increments, hold Ctrl.
To perform tiny free movements, hold shift.
To perform tiny snap movements, hold shift and Ctrl.
>>(most importantly)>>To constrain it so it will only move along any one axis, just tap the axis letter (once for the global axis, twice for local, thrice to de-constrain it).
To move around one pixel at a time, tap the arrow keys.
You can do a couple of other things too, but you won't need them for now. :)
Now - most of the above controls work when in Scale (s) and Rotate (r) too - so it gives you whatever degree of control over your selection that you want.
Extrude (e) is a bit different - it will basically, duplicate your selection, but attach it by edges to the original ones. You should note though that this is context sensitive. What this means is that if you only have one vert selected and press e, it will extrude only that vert, no questions asked. However, if blender detects an edge between two verts, or a face between 3 or 4, it will pop up a little menu when you press e. This will allow you to extrude the piece in exactly the way you wanted - ie, as a face, edges or individual verts. Have a play with this on the cube to see what it does.
The extrude button basically allows you to grow your ships out of whatever you start with, so it's a very important one.
==Editing Menus==
If you ever get confused, need to find a shortcut or something, press the space bar when over the 3d window. It will pop up a menu that is able to access most of blenders editing functions (the remaining lot are in the 'Weird' w menu), and it will list the shortcuts for each one too.
Also through this menu you can access the add menu, where you can add more primitive shapes at your blender-cursors location. (The blender cursor is that black crosshair with the red and white striped circle through it. You place it by left-clicking somewhere, and centre it by pressing Shift+c) Keep in mind that any objects you create through this menu will be aligned with your view plane again, so it can sometimes get ugly.
And finally, to delete your selection, press x, and it will give you an option for exactly what it is about your selection you want deleted.
====Final Notes====
Anyways, I think I'll end this monster post there for now, since it's getting late, I need to get up early tomorrow, and I think that's probably more than enough information to try and absorb anyway. :D
Just use it as a kind of introductory function list rather than a sequential tutorial I guess. For a very, very old, but still decent blender tutorial, have a look here: http://freespace.volitionwatch.com/fs2/mods/fighterguide/step1-1.php
There's a lot in there that can actually be done via easier means, but it's still got a good overall sequence. Worth a look if you're feeling slightly fried by the above monster. ;)
There is also some great stuff on the blender website, such as some good introductory videos here: http://blender.org/cms/Getting_started.400.0.html
If you're having trouble with or don't understand fully any of the above, just say so and I'll do my best to sort it out. :)
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:jaw: longest ts post . . . . . . Evah.......... :eek2:
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Hi All; Well Mr.VA that is a really great job and I might add the type of help one like me needs and I surely thank you for the help. And to Mr. CD your input is very welcomed and instructive as well. It is difficult to deside which is the easiest program to use to get the desired result. I see that each program has strengths and weakness. Does TS have a certain strenfth that Blender does not and is it possible to combine the two to produce the best result? Perhaps it is not needed if you know all the ins and outs of either program. Again thank you for your input. I will work on this info and see if I can learn it. Have a great day all :-)
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:jaw: longest ts post . . . . . . Evah.......... :eek2:
lol, it's a tutorial type thing, what do you expec........ wait........longest TS post? :p
Anyways, dr22: Glad you like it - and it was good practice for when I do the fully screenshotted step by step version.
TS's greatest and most overpowering strength over blender is ironically, not a part of TS at all. ;) It's PCS - the only (non 3ds max) way of getting our FS models in-game.
However, if anyone out there knows some python scripting, we may eventually be able to export a convertable Cob file directly from Blender - the current script does everything except material/texture names and proper heirarchy. If we can sort those little issues, all you'd need to get a working ship model would be Blender and PCS. :D
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[Oh really? :p
I've used it enough to believe I can fairly comment on it. In my time I've used Scuplt 4D which was :D, trueSpace which was :nervous:, MilkShape which was :doubt:, and Blender which was :mad:. Sure you can model stuff in it but why would you want to?
In TS, you need to select each face (not verts), (which in itself can get tedious, because of the different selection modes, and the fact that you need to do it properly, or you won't be able to detach the selected verts from the rest of the mesh), then
etc... trueSpace is hardly modelling Nirvana. It's somewhat dumbed down, somewhat quirky, somewhat unstable, with an interface that appears to try and hide useful features on purpose. I probably wouldn't have bothered learning it if it wasn't for Kazan's PCS. Still you can boot up trueSpace and throw some geometry around with little thought and with me that counts for a lot.
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I've used it enough to believe I can fairly comment on it. In my time I've used Scuplt 4D which was :D, trueSpace which was :nervous:, MilkShape which was :doubt:, and Blender which was :mad:. Sure you can model stuff in it but why would you want to?
Errm, because you can build objects using any technique you like relatively quickly and easily, it's free, rock solid stable, has a very fast workflow, just about all the modeling related features you could want or need from the more expensive programs, and it has an integrated and fairly powerful UV mapping system - one that easily matches good old Lith, without sacrificing the modeling capability?
etc... trueSpace is hardly modelling Nirvana. It's somewhat dumbed down, somewhat quirky, somewhat unstable, with an interface that appears to try and hide useful features on purpose. I probably wouldn't have bothered learning it if it wasn't for Kazan's PCS. Still you can boot up trueSpace and throw some geometry around with little thought and with me that counts for a lot.
Throwing geometry around? What is it about blender that prevents you doing that? I do that a lot!
Come on, just saying it's horrible is useless to everyone. :p What are your reasons for calling it horrible?
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The interface just isn't intuitive enough :p
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I am actually allergic to Blender's user interface. It makes me break out in a rash.
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The interface just isn't intuitive enough :p
Ouch. If you're a TS user, you should be shot by a certain monkey on space crack for that statement. :p
I am actually allergic to Blender's user interface. It makes me break out in a rash.
That's just not possible! They removed the Rash-Installer feature ages ago due to unpopular demand, and the Propagate-Black-Death function isn't finished yet. Report it as a bug.
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Hi All; Hope every one is having a good day. I am truely amazed at how people differ on any topic. I also find it interesting how we can come to the same or similar result in such different ways. Aint it great?! I'm sure Mr IPA can use some calimin lotion for his rash. Thank you for your input. Is there a way to combine the needed PCS part to help in ts? Oh what is PCS? Isn't PCS a program or codex part of ts and couldn't it be incorperated into ts as an add on? Thanks all and have a great day :-)
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PCS = Pof Constructor Suite. One of the ways of converting a model into a working pof file.
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The interface just isn't intuitive enough :p
Ouch. If you're a TS user, you should be shot by a certain monkey on space crack for that statement. :p
In some ways TS is intuitive. In some... okay it ain't.
I can easily see this thread turning into yet another 'TS Vs Blender' brawl, so lets all agree that everyone has a prefered platform to work on.
dr22 said it best:
I also find it interesting how we can come to the same or similar result in such different ways. Aint it great?!
If we can all turn out such excellent ships as we all have, then what does it matter what program we use?
(trying to be diplomatic)
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Bah, that just takes all the fun out of it though. :p
(And it's not exactly what you'd call a brawl either, and if it becomes one, then I'll just drop it. As is though, it's just a good old fashioned debate. Hard light general seems to be the real brawl arena on HLP. ;) )
Come on, I count 4 TS users/supporters in this thread - is there a better way to do that duplicate verts operation described at the top of the tutorial post? Here:
A good example is if you're in the middle of editing a mesh - say, just extruded a spike out of a face, and you want to put an identical spike behind it. In blender, you select the verts/faces/edges with box select or any of the other selection methods, press shift+d to duplicate them, y to constrain to the y axis, slide it back and click to set. Textures will be preserved.
In TS, you need to select each face (not verts), (which in itself can get tedious, because of the different selection modes, and the fact that you need to do it properly, or you won't be able to detach the selected verts from the rest of the mesh), then you need to click the detach from object button (if it will let you that is), duplicate the newly created piece, move it backwards, add-select the other spike, then Boolean them back onto the rest of the mesh - which will probably screw up the texturing somewhere, if it doesn't ruin the whole thing, or crash because it's unstable. Do some booleans on complex objects, and you'll get a lot of crashes.
dr22: What Karajorma said - Kazan's PCS is one of two main programs the FS community has to convert 3d models into the FS .POF format. The other one is Styxx's POF exporter plugin - it's for 3ds Max only.
PCS will convert truespace COB or SCN formats to working POFs, and then you can add all the nessecary data to them such as thrusters, subsystems, turrets, gunpoints etc. to get them working properly in-game.
More info here: http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/POF_Constructor_Suite
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Good point about the debate. I just don't want to see people argue.
As for your example, well I use the 'Mirror' tool a lot since all my ships are symeticrical left-right (and in some cases, almost top-bottom too ;)), so having a spike on the opposite side is no problem.
And you don't have to use 'remove polys-boolean' either. I only use Booleans for those really akward things (round holes in square faces, tunnels through things etc), the rest of the time I use extrude. In fact, that is one of my most used tools.
I'm not trying to say that TS is superior to anything else. It all depends on how you like to work :nod: :cool:
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Hi All; Hope everyone is having a great day. I thank you all for the input. I have yet to get very far with eaither program yet. Seems the more I try the confuseder ( I wonder if thats a real word?) I get. I did however get a ball (mesh) to stay on the screen just not able to center it yet though, thats in ts. I was having some old time memories about Descent3 so I pulled her out of the moth balls and took her for a spen. I don't remember all that I thought I would. I do miss the ability to creat from verts though. Seems these new fangaled programs have a mind of there own. When I tried to start to create a ship I could only get a ball not a square. But I find it to have a smoother shape using the ball. great, I'll keep working on it. And with your help I'm sure I'll get there. Thanks again for all your help. Have a great day all. :-)
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http://www.render-lab.com/Render_Lab_tuts_tS.htm
This is one of the best intros to TS you can get In my opinion, Give it a try mate, Good luck :)
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As for your example, well I use the 'Mirror' tool a lot since all my ships are symeticrical left-right (and in some cases, almost top-bottom too ;)), so having a spike on the opposite side is no problem.
I mean y axis copying - so you'd end up with 4 spikes if it were mirrored.
And you don't have to use 'remove polys-boolean' either. I only use Booleans for those really akward things (round holes in square faces, tunnels through things etc), the rest of the time I use extrude. In fact, that is one of my most used tools.
So how would you reattach the spikes without Booleans? I know gluing wouldn't work.
I'm not trying to say that TS is superior to anything else. It all depends on how you like to work :nod: :cool:
Ah, but who would like to make 14 mouse clicks on various icons when they could do an identical or superior operation with one or two key-taps and one or two mouse clicks? ;)
In fact I just read right through that tutorial Colonol Dekker linked to, comparing Blenders equivillant functions to the ones listed there for TS. Blender won every time.
I really honestly reckon this is a case of 'anything TS can do, Blender can do better."
Oh, and I quite liked this part of the tutorial: :D
"Once you are done setting the starting properties for your object, you can right-click on it and get into edit mode. Here you can select faces, edges or vertices and do some editing tasks......Sometimes you can’t seem to find the object editing tool panel even after you right-clicked on your object. In this case, the panel has been minimized and it might take a while to find it. Just look around in your scene until you find the button."
I've seen this myself a lot, and opened up TS to see if it would happen again. It did. ;)
In the words of the tutorial: "it looks like the little grey square, but with a little black arrow on it." See if you can find it here:
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/VA--Twisted_Infinities/EditingPanelHideAndSeek.jpg
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dr22: You like editing meshes verticie by verticie do you? Awesome - that's what blender is brilliant at. ;)
In fact, that's how I do my ships in it. I start by going to a side view, deleting the default cube, creating a plane, deleting all but one vert of the plane, and then using the extrude key on that vert to draw the side-on outline of my ship dot-to-dot style.
(There is a vaguely appropriate function in TS - the drawpanel, but TS likes deleting any verticies or edges that aren't attached to a face, so it's not a particularly helpful feature in the way you're describing.)
Also, if you like drawing outlines of your ships on paper first, you can set scanned images as your backdrop in blender, and do the dot-to-dot technique to match it nicely. :)
I can write up a small guide on how to do that if you like - just let me know.
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You really don't like TS do you VA? :D
Vert, line & face editing can all be done in TS too.
As for the spikes... you wouldn't remove the ploys from the mesh in the first place. Just define the shape of the spike where it meets the main hull (this can be tricky if you've got a complex shape), extrude the face, then edit the verts/lines/faces as needed.
I'm getting tired of this... I use TS, you use Blender, and lets leave it at that.
PS: You have any more thoughts on my docking problem?
PPS: I might come after you to bounce ideas/opinons about the Ursa Mk2 I've designed in the future (unless I reveal it to the whole commuity first ;))
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Also, if you like drawing outlines of your ships on paper first, you can set scanned images as your backdrop in blender, and do the dot-to-dot technique to match it nicely. :)
*looks at quote with minor interest*
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Hi All; Got to say I love it, Really makes my day to see such great minds togeather in one place working togeather. Though I'm sure you may not agree. When two or more minds come togeather and toss ideas around on the way to create ,as well as to solve problems then we are farther ahead than you think. Mr. VA I would like any help you can give. I would a tutorial that actually shows making a ship or something (start to finish) along those lines if possible. As I 've said before I am a bit thick most of the time and it seems to take hands on with pictures. haha. At any rate I do see that both programs have there benifits and it all comes down to the users ability to work with them. I went to your picture and could not see the thingy. Could it be that it is covered up by the boxs or the object? Mr. Raptor I see that you have mastered the ts and I thank you for your in put as it helps me to see the possiblitys for using it to mod.
My vert experiance is of a little different stile as D3Edit actually uses the 2D to lay out all of the items you build. It has three views as all 2D but also shows a fourth window that is world view. In the 2D you lay out the verts one at a time and then extrude or lath as needed to obtain the final shape. In these two programs I see that it is more that you start off with a shape ie; box,circle and the like and then exspand from there. This will take a bit of getting use to. So I will endeavour to persevere and with all of you helping me I will succeed. Thank You all, have a great day :-)
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You really don't like TS do you VA? :D
Not since....well.....ever. ;) I could tell you many-a nightmare geometry tale about it, all of which end in either tragedy or being saved by something other than TS. :p
Vert, line & face editing can all be done in TS too.
How though? And to what extent? This is one of my biggest beefs with TS, so if you can work in it as though it was a wire frame, I'd really like to know!
As for the spikes... you wouldn't remove the ploys from the mesh in the first place. Just define the shape of the spike where it meets the main hull (this can be tricky if you've got a complex shape), extrude the face, then edit the verts/lines/faces as needed.
Not sure I'm following you here, but that sounds like you're making the same object (in this case a spike) twice? Now, making two very simple things is fine, but if you want a complex one, lots of them, or both then you need a better system of doing it.
I'm getting tired of this... I use TS, you use Blender, and lets leave it at that.
I'm keeping an open mind about it though - IF there are ways of doing things in TS (such as that geometry copy operation or working with edges and verticies independant of faces) that mean it's more powerful than it appears, then I really honestly want to know about them!
PS: You have any more thoughts on my docking problem?
PPS: I might come after you to bounce ideas/opinons about the Ursa Mk2 I've designed in the future (unless I reveal it to the whole commuity first ;))
That's weird - I somehow missed your second reply, though apparently I've read it. :\
Err, I'll have a look after this, and yeah I'd be happy to help with the Mk2. :)
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dr22: So D3Edit looks something like this? http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/VA--Twisted_Infinities/D3EditLayout.jpg
(incidentally, TS can do the same 4 view thing too) :)
As for the start to finish tutorial, that'll come - pics and all, but there's a heck of a lot involved in making it, so it'll take time. Meanwhile, I'd suggest you just practice modeling. :)
Have you tried that one I linked to before by the way? This one? http://freespace.volitionwatch.com/fs2/mods/fighterguide/step1-1.php
It's the one I started out on, and while it is old now, it's still got some helpful stuff in there.
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I've used tS 2.1a, 3.x, 4.x, 5.x and 6.x up to 6.5. Version 7 is radically different, and not (IMHO) for the better in the user interface department.*
If you don't like how the buttons are arranged, hold Shift then click and drag them to create your own setup in 6.x, may work in 5.x- I dunno because I didn't use that one very long due to it breaking things from earlier versions like the procedural textures.
I just checked and the buttons can't be moved around individually (at least not that way) in 3.x or 4.x
To find everything in trueSpace, left click and hold a button. If there's others in that group they'll pop up and you can drag over to the one you want. On 5.x and 6.x there's even a button that opens a mega-group that displays every single button for when you can't remember where that button is you want. ;) Fortunately tS has tooltips for everything plus a statusbar at the bottom which displays info on what's being hovered over.
For the precision picky, rightclick the button with the arrow cursor icon. Ta-da! There's your direct entry box for positioning stuff.
In all versions of trueSpace, look for a little Red triangle in the upper right corner of the buttons, that indicates it has a rightclick options panel. A Bluish-grey triangle in the upper left of the button indicates that it has a group which can be expanded by holding with the left button. When you drag to and release on a button in a group, that one switches to the new default for that collapsed group.
6.5 (don't recall about 5.x) has a great Mirror Model function. Create 1/2 a model or use a giant cube to boolean subtract half of one, select the face you want to use as the duplication plane, then click the button with M|M on it. If it looks OK, click the button in that group to create a permanent 'welded' object. This is a good one for people who want a perfectly symmetrical model.
As a long time tS user, the most maddening thing I've run into is for some reason Caligari keeps rearranging the buttons on each new version. I used 4.3 for a long time and got used to it, so when they shuffled things around in 5.0 I was not a happy modeler! One of these days when I'm not doing something else, I need to use the Shift-drag function in 6.5 to create a configuration that exactly duplicates the button groups and positions for every function that's the same as 4.3, then create more groups for the new stuff in what will hopefully be a somewhat logical arrangement.
*trueSpace 7 is an enormous screen space hog! You really need a couple of 21" monitors set at some ungodly high resolution just to be able to see what you're doing. If'n you don't have square miles of display, stick with 6.x.
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As pictures can say a thousand words...
(http://img93.imageshack.us/img93/3204/ts1yk9.jpg) (http://img93.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ts1yk9.jpg)
This is the full 'expanded' vertex/line/face editing popup in TS6. I tend to leave it 'condensed' (then all the hanging icons vanish)
In this mode (activated by clicking the icon next to the white arrow at the top left/bottom left depending on how you set up the screen) the mesh turns into a blue wireframe, and using one of the icons you can work with faces, verts or lines at will. Then you can drag/rotate as you please, or you can alter the x/y/z values in the box to the left (currently I have none selected, so it's defaulted to the model as a whole)
There are things to watch out for, like remembering to click on one of the view change buttons (top three on the far left here) if you want to alter the view while a poly/line vert is selected, but is this basically what you were interested in TS being able to do VA?
I have to admit, I spend like 70+% of my time with this engaged...
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To be honest, it's not. :\
I know about those buttons, but never really found them to be much use for anything I've needed.
What I was hoping for and am still after is the ability to go from a basic outline to a 3d mesh, via manipulating and extruding the original outline in TS. This isn't a great demonstration pic, but it gives you the basic idea:
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/VA--Twisted_Infinities/BlenderModelingTechnique.jpg)
If I tried that in TS, it would kill off isolated edges or verts whenever it's not in editmode, obviously making things rather difficult.
Seeing as we seem to have a lot of TS users in here now though, can any of you tell me how you could go from that outline to the finished result in TS? (perhaps even better, try and do it?)
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My bad. Sorry if I implied anything bad about you... :o
I'm pretty (95%+) sure I could do it. Explaining how I do it, that's an entirely different matter... :nervous:
And may I just say that's an interesting ship you've got there :nod:
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lol, no worries - I've done the exact same thing more than once. ;)
If you're not too busy, do you reckon you could give building it a quick go?
And thanks - the ship is the HTL version of Flipside's awesome (but old) little Harpy gunship for TI.
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Hi All; Colonol D;Great stuff on ts thanks for the input. Mr. bizzybody Thanks for the info. Sounds as though you are pretty expert at ts. I guess I'll have to look into 6.5 as I only have 5x. Mr Raptor;Again thanks for the input it all helps and I like it so keep it coming. Mr. VA That is kinda like what I'm used to I'll try to put a pic of the D3Edit here.(//)I added an attachement with the pic but I don't know how to place it in the message. At any rate I hope you will be able to see it. Then you will know what I am talking about. Great ship, thats the kinda stuff I want to do. Thank You all for the great help. And Mr. VA any tut help you can give I will appreciate. I know it is a lot of work and perhaps your time is limited but I do thank you for your help. Have agreat day all. :-)
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If you're not too busy, do you reckon you could give building it a quick go?
Well, I got so much going on myself right now, what with the Ursa MK2 I'm working on, my idea of what an HTL Orion should be (since I don't like Bobbeau's one), trying to write that fanfic, finish texturing (and fixing the pesky dock points of) the GTD Hera... but I think I could give it a go...
Thinking about the Hera, got some more screenies to upload. Give me a couple of minutes...
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Hi All; Well heres the first question for ts. I tried to follow one of the PDF tutorials inside 5.2. As I was starting out I get to the point where I'm making a volcano island from a nurb. It tells me to do a few things and I do them, then it says to use Refine patch (its grayed out) can't use it and then I started looking at the complete list of buttons and found a few others that are greyed out. What the heck?? It's bad when the tut is saying to do something and the buttons are not availible. Here is a pic of the buttons. Hope you can see them well enough to tell whats going on. Help.
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To do something like that, I'd first switch to the Top view, which is a straight on, orthographic with no perspective. Then I'd use the Add Curve or Add Polyline tool to rough out the shape, clicking wherever I wanted a vertex along the outside of the shape. Add Curve makes the corners meet as tangent curves while Add Polyline makes all the edges straight. A vertex on a curve can be converted to a sharp corner using the Sharp Corner button, which is on the Curve/Polyline popup toolbar.
To close a curve or polyline, simply click the Object Tool (arrow cursor) button.
Now select the face (it's actually a two-sided object with two faces that have all their vertexes in common, like a cube squished down to 2 dimensions) and click the Sweep button. Rightclick Sweep first if you want to change its parameters.
There you have a 3D object to which you can Add Edges or Add Vertex. To use the Add Edges tool, first click it then click on a vertex on the object. A 'rubberband' line will follow the cursor along the nearest edge of the faces that vertex is part of and it'll snap to other vertexes to make it easier to add an edge between them. Adding an edge between a vertex and a point on another edge where there isn't a vertex, adds a vertex on that edge.
If you _don't_ want trueSpace deleting edges when you do a boolean operation, rightclick any of the boolean buttons and uncheck the Delete Edges box on the settings popup.
Sweeping a few times then adding edges, followed by creative use of the Delete Vertex button can result in something... unique. ;)
See the .cob objects in the attached ZIP. As I was writing this post I was farting around in tS (Version 6.6, I keep forgetting and thinking 6.5 because the 6.6 updater doesn't update the shortcuts or the Start menu!) creating a shape then thought "Hmmmm....." and decided to see what I could make of it.
One's the object I did, the other is that object mirrored and welded to make the whole ship. I left all the extra edges in so you can see how many times I used Sweep. No booleaning done, it's all edge adding and edge and vertex deleting on it. If I was going to do more, I'd hit it with a boolean subtract of a cube with Delete Edges (with the cube NOT intersecting the model ;) ) then I'd dig in and start tweaking vertex positions and adding edges to triangulate faces that'd become non-flat.
In tS, if you don't want your model looking weird when you convert to a triangles only format, triangulate any non-flat face yourself. tS will NOT triangulate both sides of a perfectly symmetrical mesh identically. I doubt any 3D app that can model with n-sided faces will.
It is now 3:30 AM MST and I've spent about 20 minutes writing this post and creating a 3D model. Time to hit the sack, pull out the old Handspring Visor Platinum and read a bit more of Vernor Vinge's "A Deepness in the Sky" (prequel to "A Fire Upon the Deep", then doze off to sleepyland. :tumbleweed:
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Errm, bizzybody...... that's not exa-...well heck, it doesn't look like anything!
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/VA--Twisted_Infinities/Huh.jpg)
What exactly are you trying to demonstrate here?
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dr22: Well, I ran a quick test in trueSpace, and I'd say you need to right-click the nurbs object to be able to use the refine patch tool. If you're doing that already, then I'd say you need to open the nearest window and make a trueProjectile.
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Hi All; Well VA that worked so thank you very much. I like your ship and I'm waitting to be able to do similar things in ts or Blender. Depends on which one I can learn to use. Mr. bizzybody looks like he knows the way to work this stuff I'm sure he will fix it and show us how it is done. Go Mr. bizzybody. Have a great day all :-)
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Here's that model with more work done on it. The half model is before mirroring, the full model is mirrored and manually fully triangulated, and quite a bit changed, especially in the middle.
I dunno what it could be. That's what textures are for! ;)
trueSpace can load Adobe Illustrator .ai files, so you could draw a shape in any vector drawing program that can output .ai files, then load into tS and work from there.
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Hi All; Hey there Mr. bizzbody I tried to load your zip to my ts but I can not get it to come up into the program. Where should I put it into ts in order for it to work?
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Did you unzip it first? If you don't have an unzip program, get WinZip from www.winzip.com It's a non-expiring, fully featured trial. It just nags you to pay whenever you use it. ;)
If you don't have an Objects folder in your trueSpace folder, make one and unzip the file there.
Here's yet another version, not all triangulated- but I've included a 2048x2048 UV map .gif image as a guide for texturing it. (Now I need to convert the maps for other models I've posted to .gif A 2048x2048 16bit bitmap, converted to a 1bit GIF, is only 47K!)
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oh gawd... after poking though the net here and there, I finally realise why people are against ts7... Interface is (http://209.85.12.236/5024/118/emo/bangwall.gif) and the file formats it can save to is worse... I'm not even a modeller but I get their point, and then I come across forum posts concerning instability and similar jargon...
With a mechanical pencil, some leads and an eraser I can easily do up a fighter, but when it comes to modelling/texturing/UVmapping/whatnot... :blah:
And I don't draw in technical style either (whaddya call it? Isometric? Orthographic?). I just draw ships at one angle, (typically looking at the front-left side of ship) and the rough sketch eventually becomes an ultra-high detail piece... I just keep drawing till I damage the paper sometimes...
I don't get it. Whenever it comes to modelling, regardless of program or intended game, I'm stumped. I have Blender but there's just something about it that I don't like. Truespace 3.2, the dang hierarchy editor is screwed up... but whatever, I can't model a thing in both programs anyway... am I doomed to be stuck with tables and FRED, just like in RA2YR where I couldn't make any new SHPs/VXLs of my own at all? (http://209.85.12.236/5024/118/emo/bangwall.gif) (http://209.85.12.236/5024/118/emo/bangwall.gif) (http://209.85.12.236/5024/118/emo/bangwall.gif) bleh, end of rant, I've got to start somewhere... :shaking:
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Hi All; Thank you Mr.bizzybody. Got your drawing to show up in the work area now after your much needed help on setting up an objects folder in ts. I was trying to put it inside library\vehicles. But now its in the right place thank you, thank you. Now what the heck is it?? haha. lol Keep up the good work there Mr. bizzybody.
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oh gawd... after poking though the net here and there, I finally realise why people are against ts7... Interface is (http://209.85.12.236/5024/118/emo/bangwall.gif) and the file formats it can save to is worse... I'm not even a modeller but I get their point, and then I come across forum posts concerning instability and similar jargon...
<rant>
I whole heartly agree... TS7 is absolutely horrible... You could find things realitively easy to find things in TS3 but 7 everythings scattered around, half hidden. They tried to throw everything and the kitcken sink into it without really thinking. Plus their different layout ideas... YUCK. :ick: Oh and don't forget it's ungodly slow.
</rant>
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Hi All; I take it that a few of you don't care for ts? Well all in-put is needed so help us if you can. Thank You. Mr.SD what program do you use? And Mr asyikarea51 how about you sir what program do you use/like?
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Well I use Max 7, although it is very expensive :blah:
We should have a stickied thread about free/low-cost rendering software.
Only ones I know of are blender and gmax.
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I dont think you can render in either GMAX nor blender... Perhaps blender. But GMAX has no renderring engine.
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Uh Taristin, Blender's not just the free version of an expensive program - it's the full program, so it can render and animate stuff just fine, and it's quite powerful there too. ;)
In fact, feature wise I would say that blender's not hugely far behind max. In fact I only learned yesterday that max cannot extrude individual verts in the way blender can - which is quite a nice little feature in mesh editing.
Hi All; I take it that a few of you don't care for ts? Well all in-put is needed so help us if you can. Thank You. Mr.SD what program do you use? And Mr asyikarea51 how about you sir what program do you use/like?
So far in this thread I'm the only one who's been voicing a dislike of all versions of TS. Scooby, asyikarea51 and bizzybody have been voicing their dislike of TS 7.
With a mechanical pencil, some leads and an eraser I can easily do up a fighter, but when it comes to modelling/texturing/UVmapping/whatnot... :blah:
And I don't draw in technical style either (whaddya call it? Isometric? Orthographic?). I just draw ships at one angle, (typically looking at the front-left side of ship) and the rough sketch eventually becomes an ultra-high detail piece... I just keep drawing till I damage the paper sometimes...
Well, if you've got good designs in your concept art, then you've already managed one of the harder parts of ship building. ;)
I don't get it. Whenever it comes to modelling, regardless of program or intended game, I'm stumped. I have Blender but there's just something about it that I don't like.
Gah! How is it that people don't like blender for no apparent reason?!?
Also, as I've said earlier in this thread somewhere, if modeling newbies jump into blender straight away without any form of tutorial, they probably won't get very far before sinking.
Have a look at this one here: http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Blender_3D:_Noob_to_Pro
bizzybody: What IS that thing? It's honestly closer to a geometric lump than any form of ship, and whatever it is, there is nowhere near enough detail on it to warrent a 2048² texture map!
If it is a ship, I'd recommend you do some work designing what you plan to build on paper first before actually doing any modeling. You can apparently model and UV map already, and now you just need to design ships to actually build. ;)
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@ dr22
Can't really say if I have a fave modelling tool or not, because I'm not even a modeller. But like I said before, I'm going to have to start somewhere sooner or later...
Speaking of drawing, most of the time I don't even need a ruler. :lol:
dang, I'm busy, I'll come back here later. :)
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I used TS 3.2 for over a year, even wrote a tutorial for it, in my sig. But, I sold out to Wings, much better all around. :)
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It's something created from a random outline to show what can be done with just the Add Polyline, Sweep, Add Edges and Vertex Delete buttons, then mirrorred in trueSpace 6.6.
The last revision looks more like a ship I think. :D The bridge sections are the two raised areas and the engine textures would go on the flat spots at the other end. I think it's something from an alien shipyard. :) Add some texture, greeblies and nernies and it'd look better. It could be anything from a small insystem transport to a fairly large ship. Some of the FS2 Retail ships don't look like much without their texture!
I find it easier to work with a large texture then shrink it down.
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I used TS 3.2 for over a year, even wrote a tutorial for it, in my sig. But, I sold out to Wings, much better all around. :)
Dang, no wonder the advanced tut wasn't finished... I was referring to that on one occasion and got stuck on what to do next. XD
If only my hierarchy editor didn't screw up... (http://209.85.12.236/5024/118/emo/bangwall.gif)
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I used TS 3.2 for over a year, even wrote a tutorial for it, in my sig. But, I sold out to Wings, much better all around. :)
Dang, no wonder the advanced tut wasn't finished... I was referring to that on one occasion and got stuck on what to do next. XD
If only my hierarchy editor didn't screw up... (http://209.85.12.236/5024/118/emo/bangwall.gif)
Are you using TrueView?
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<
Needs Truevie :nod: What other Plugins are "must-haves" for you Scoob?
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I whole heartly agree... TS7 is absolutely horrible... You could find things realitively easy to find things in TS3 but 7 everythings scattered around, half hidden.
Caligari couldn't make a user interface to save their lives. I'm frequently actually amazed by how bad trueSpace user interfaces are. It's quite incredible. Do they have no beta testing programme whatsoever or do they just choose to ignore their beta testers believing that their monkey on space crack is right where their beta testing public are wrong. Who knows? The only thing for sure is that Caligari seem absolutely determined to inflict as much pain and anguish on the users of their programs as possible. Like I said previously, I used TS because I could use PCS to convert TS ships. It it wasn't for that I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole. There are so many better options. None of which are Blender :P.
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I'm still waiting on a valid reason from you. :p
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TrueView it is.
It worked perfectly before, but now when I click on it, nothing shows up. Bleargh.
(wanted to add more to this message, but I think it's unnecessary right now, so I've removed it... I'll probably mention it next time or something...)
edit: DANGIT my connection to HLP is going bonkers again... Bangwal
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Hi All; Seems to me we all have a desire to make ships and the like for fs2. We just need to get on the same page in order to make it all work. By that I mean that there has to be a way that those of us that have severely limited funds to be able to use these programs to accomplish our goals. Those of you who are able to mod in any of these programs could help those of us that can't. I know that each of you are bussy and have perhaps limited time. Maybe you could some how do a tut that is in pieces that could get us started. This would help those of us just starting out as well as helping those that have a limited knowledge of the different programs. The thing that I have found with most of the tuts I have seen is that they don't show very much detail of how to actually start the drawing ie, open program then set the screen to edit(and how to do that) and so on until the drawing is at some stage that we can actually do it. Not all people learn at the same rate and so there in lies the problem. I am confident that there are those of you that have the knowledge to help and perhaps the paients to see us to the end goal. Heres hoping that you will feel the need to do just that. Again I thank you all for all your input and help. I hope that we can find a way to use both programs to achieve the goal of creating mods that we can all be proud of. Heres hoping.:-)
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Hi All; I just went to Mr. WeatherOp's tut. Great stuff. Now thats what I'm talking about, so simple even I can use it. By the by; where is the Advanced tut and the AXES Faq? I also think that Mr. K's tut is great but I wish I could put the two tuts togeather in order to present a more complete tut. I some day will be as good as you two gentalmen. Keep up the great work. Rmember that I started out before computers and perhaps even the printed word. lol Thanks to all of you for your input and help. Have a great day. :-)
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Hi All; I just went to Mr. WeatherOp's tut. Great stuff. Now thats what I'm talking about, so simple even I can use it. By the by; where is the Advanced tut and the AXES Faq? I also think that Mr. K's tut is great but I wish I could put the two tuts togeather in order to present a more complete tut. I some day will be as good as you two gentalmen. Keep up the great work. Rmember that I started out before computers and perhaps even the printed word. lol Thanks to all of you for your input and help. Have a great day. :-)
Well, I stopped using TS 3.2 in favor of Wings3D, and that is what you should get in. It has alot of features that TS3.2 doesn't.
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trueSpace has a weird UI because it was originally an Amiga program, same reason why Lightwave is soo Un-Windows style in its UI. trueSpace 7 looks like some space monkey on crack attempted to try bringing it into a perpendicular alignment with Windows' user interface semi-standards.
Note to software companies (especially Adobe!). Graphical User Interfaces provide large piles of pre-written code for many user interface things. Why? So you don't have to spend time, effort and code space creating those functions from scratch. SO WHY THE $%#$^#$^#$^#$&6 DO YOU STILL INSIST ON DOING IT!!!!? :hopping: :mad: :mad2: :ick: :no: Why do you think Microsoft calls them STANDARD dialogs?
P.S. When the heck is this forum going to get sub-fora for the various 3D modeling programs FS modders use? At least for trueSpace, Blender, and 3DS Max.
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I'm still waiting on a valid reason from you. :p
Sorry I thought I told you. I loathe Blender's interface even more than the TS ones. Which if you're been reading my posts you'll realise I really dislike quite a lot.
Note to software companies (especially Adobe!).
:lol: @ Adobe reference.
So anyway whilst I'm here I may as well ask. What 3D modelling packages are there out there that are completely free. I have 3 computer rooms of about 100 pcs that need some 3d modelling software. Is the choice between TS3.2 and Blender only? Anyone have a link for the free TS3.2?
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Docagoa, TS, Blender, UMMM GOOGLE IT :d
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Hi All; Well I did it. I finally made a ship. I followed Mr. WeatherOp's tut and made a ship. Though it is his design, I did it. lol I'm having problems posting here for some reason today, but I'll try to put it in here. I sure want to thank Mr. WeatherOp and all of you for your help and in-put. I will also try to use the other programs as soon as I can find them.
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Very nice for a first ship, :yes: now texture it :D
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Dekker. Please can I have a link to that 3D Studio Max download?
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Agg, i lied ok, as if Download.com would pimp 3DsMax............
:nervous:
Sorry IPA,
<<<*ashamed*
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:sigh:
I was on the hunt for it too. (http://209.85.12.236/5024/118/emo/bangwall.gif)
Nevermind then. :)
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Gmax is the same thing, why not get that?
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Hi All; What is up with this sight, it's moving so slow. Or is it just me?? Thanks MR.CD and to be sure I will texture it soon as I learn how. Need hep. lol. I to went to download.com and could not find the stuff you spoke of, but, I did find a program called Serif 3DPlus 2.0 That was free. I'll check it out. Hey what about the one called wings, where is it at?? Have a great day all by. :-)
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were is GMax at??
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GMax is discontinued. Why give something away when you can charge for it.
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Sorry I thought I told you. I loathe Blender's interface even more than the TS ones. Which if you're been reading my posts you'll realise I really dislike quite a lot.
Oh, right - so the rash thing actually was refering to your real reason. My bad.
Still though, what exactly didn't you like about the interface? It produces quite a fast workflow even without using all the shortcut keys, and it becomes very fast and easy with them.
You can access just about everything quickly through the space-bar menu thing, and what's not in there is among the buttons in the buttons window. (Which is, incidentally, even more customisable than 3ds Max's button sets. :p )
In fact, the interface is so customisable (is that even a word? If not, it is now!) that there's not a whole lot there you can dislike the whole program for, simply because chances are you can change that bit to whatever you do like. ;)
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dr22: Congrats on your first ship! Keep it up. :D
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I'll probably keep my eyes on this thread more often...
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Hi All; I am still at it. Trying to texture or color my new ship. Have been trying to follow the ts5.2 tutorial on texturing and coloring but I have not figured it out yet. Thanks Mr. VA I will keep working and will create a great fighter soon, I hope. lol Has any one got a handle on how to texture or color my ship? I need help. Or as our un-educated troops say hlp. Thanks again for all your help thus far. Keep smiling all and have a great day. :-)
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Wish I could help, but have 0 experience in truespaec other than setting up a scene. Heck I couldn't figure out how to apply textures in truespace 7 :doubt:
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Sorry I can't help much, but in the case of TS3.2 which I used to use, the Paint Face option is useless.
There was one rare occasion when I got aldo's GTF Skadi to convert, but the thruster textures were totally screwy. I never managed to fix them (another problem was the fighter's size, it was in fullsize when I converted it).
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dr22: To do any ship justice in the texture department, you'll need to be able to UV map it.
IPAndrews has a slightly outdated but still good tutorial for the UV mapper Lithunwrap here: http://underworld.fortunecity.com/pacman/106/fs2mods/shipcreationguide/
(incidentally, IPA - did you know your tut there is the 5th result for Googling "lithunwrap 1.3"? ;) )
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Still though, what exactly didn't you like about the interface?
Christ you're persistent. Do you know what "intuitive" means? It means I should be able to use an interface and know through intuition where to find what I'm looking for and how to make it work. Blender is not intuitive. Neither is trueSpace. As I said if it wasn't for PCS I wouldn't use trueSpace either. I'd use a nice intuitive program where I don't have to invest huge amounts of time in learning a user interface that will never quite interface with my brain in a way which makes me happy. Do you understand now? Is that absolutely positively clear? If not, I will have to kill you :P.
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Oh come on, how much can I glean from "I loathe Blender's interface"? You never even mentioned intuitiveness! For all I could tell, you might not have been able to find a function and hated the entire program because of that. :p
I'm being persistant here because you've been saying blender's no good, but not provided a clear reason why you think that till now. I've been arguing that it's a lot of good in its functionality and capability - not about its ability to mesh with how your individual brain works. :p
And out of curiosity - and at risk of a probably painful killing, is Sculpt 4d your intuitive Holy Grail?
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is Sculpt 4d your intuitive Holy Grail?
No that's Lightwave.
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Hi All; I went to the web sight you showed here Mr. VA and downloaded the tuts and I will start work using them soon. Thank You. Mr IPA thank you as well for the info. What is lightwave? All, Have agreat day.:-)
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Lightwave is another high end modelling program like Max and Maya.
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ok Thank you Mr.SD. So it is one of those exspensive ones.
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Expensive, and also with a very not-Windows user interface.
Hmmm, I wonder if there's any 3D modeling program capable of high-end rendering (which even trueSpace is capable of since the version that they put the Lightworks render engine in) that has been a Windows program from its beginning?
Lightwave and trueSpace owe their funkiness to their Amiga beginnings. Blender was a *nix program for a while before it got a Windows version. Maya? What was its original platform? Bryce was a Macintosh app, then the company created a whole new programming language to do Bryce 2 for Windows and managed to have _fewer bugs_ in the Windows version than they did in Bryce 2 for Macintosh. ;)
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Is there a modeler around here that uses Maya for his/her FS2 ships?
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Hmmmm, Is Rhino 3D £££ or Free i cant remember.........
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Hi All; Has anyone actually textured a ship in ts? Any one done it in ts5.2? If so how do you do it? Any tuts would be helpful. Thanks all. Any one have any thoughts pertaining to comparision between ts5.2 and ts6.6? I think its 6.6. What ever the next upgrade is from ts5.2.
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I have a few questions. I loathe truespace's interface and can't figure this out.
1. How can I rotate a model a specific, exact number of degrees? (because XYZ coords are screwed, i make models with SolidWorks)
2. Is there any way to easily scale a model around its center, rather than dragging it and getting it off center?
3. How do I set a sob object to go to an exact co-ordinate rather than dragging it and eyeballing?
I normally figure out programs quite quickly, but Truespace hates me, I think. I'm using 6.5.
Dr22: I've done it, multiple times. The maps sucked, but I did it. I can't figure out how to make the texture not mirror on the mottom though. Click on planar projection, then uvmap, then materials, then the truespace logo, then hit what texture you want, and click the paint all button. Thats for a SIMPLE texturing job, mind you, and won't work for anything complex. Ideal for texturing a box though. Well, maybe a flat box.
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Check out the tutorials here. http://www.caligari.com/Help/Resources/tSDemo_resources/default.asp
Here's a tutorial on the 6.x UV editor. http://members.aon.at/startist_x/uv_tutorial/
If you're still using 6.5, hunt up this file. ts65sp.exe (8.6 megabytes) That's the patch to 6.6. I found several references to a 6.6 Service Pack 2, I dunno if that's it or not. 'Course if you have a genuine license, you can register at the Caligari site and download the updates.
One thing all trueSpace users need to do is right click on the arrow button to open the object properties panel, then (in newer versions) click the little downward pointing red triangle in that panel's title bar to fully expand it. THEN ALWAYS LEAVE THAT OPEN. It has a 'feature' where if you change a number you must hit Enter or click in another field or it'll change the number back to the previous data. The refresh cycle appears to be fixed, so sometimes it'll change the number back just as you're touching Enter. :ick:
That's where you directly enter numerical data for scaling, positioning, rotating etc. If you want to scale/move/rotate in exact measurements, right click the Grid button and the settings panel pops up. It's context sensitive so it only shows the relevant settings for when you have Move, Rotate or Scale selected.
Another 'feature' that's always been in trueSpace is when you're doing point/edge/face editing, then click the arrow button to exit that, it will almost always switch to Object Move, no matter what you had selected prior to clicking a mesh editing button. Another thing to watch out for is TS switching to Point Move upon entering mesh editing. Veteran TSers just learn to ALWAYS CLICK THE DESIRED MODE BUTTON when going between object and mesh editing. It becomes second nature to zip over to the object or point move/rotate/scale buttons and click.
One more thing to learn to use is the Axis buttons. There's a button to show/hide the axes, click it and the Axes appear (if hidden) and then they're moveable using the object buttons. Click Arrow and the axes stay visible. Click the Axes button again _before clicking Arrow_ and they hide. The Delete key can also be used to hide displayed axes but use with caution! In older versions, the Axes were shown in white while the mesh was orange when in Axes editing mode. then some %%@# at Caligari got the harebrain idea to make non-selected stuff near-white instead of orange like it always was before.
The button with the orange cube and axes moves them to the center of the selected object or selected group. Group Axes are blue, white for single object Axes. Normalize location yoinks the currently selected Object, Group or Axes to the origin.
I've attached my custom tS 6.6 UI config. Unzip it to the Configs folder in your trueSpace folder, then use the Configurations library to Import it. It's for a wide monitor so if you bring it into a normal ratio screen, for some reason it pushes the toolbar at the lower right with the Undo, Redo, Glue etc buttons down to cover the toolbar with the Object and Eye navigation mode buttons. Just click and drag up a bit on the handle on the toolbar. (If your 4:3 monitor is at some real high resolution like 1440 wide, it probably won't do that.)
In that toolbar, 3rd button down in the rightmost column, is the Icon Finder. Click it and a HUGE panel opens with every available button on it. Click'em to use them or you can Shift OR Control drag buttons from the Finder or the toolbars to construct custom toolbars. Shift or Control drag to the the Recycle Bin at the lower left to remove buttons from toolbars. That's also how you unload tSx plugins.
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Hi All; Hey guys thanks for the info. I'll be using it soon. I will also go to the web sights and I've downloaded the zip file, though I only have ts5.2 right now I am thinking of buying 6.6 as it is only $98 right now along with 10 tutorials. Thanks again. Have a great day all. :-)
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Hi All; Well as hard as I try I still can't color parts of an object. I select faces and try to color just those faces' but the whole object gets colored. Can't seem to figure this out. What a bummer. I guess I'm just extra thick this year. Thanks for your help though. I'll keep trying. Have a great day all. And Happy Thanksgiving. Go ahead eat to much. lol. Bye for now :-)
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You need to use the button with the Brush to paint faces. The button with the Funnel paints the whole object.
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Hi All; Well I've been hard at work trying to learn ts6.6. Yes I said 6.6. Desided to go ahead and get the more updated version. It sure helped a lot. I have not gotten any ships done but have been working with tutorials on just how to use trueSpace. Also Caligari just came out with truePlay which is pretty cool as well. You can go to the on-line sight and talk and/or chat with others. The voice is not to good yet, more like a robotic sounding thing but it's a start. Here is one of the characiters I have been working on so far. Hope you like it.
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