Hard Light Productions Forums
General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: Javito1986 on October 15, 2006, 09:39:38 pm
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Yea, I just got mauled by a lone Dragon fighter on the final mission of FS1. Playing the port version. God I'm so frustrated and angry at the moment. That Dragon literally had me screaming at the computer and flicking him off. I hate him, hate him, hate him. YOU JUST CAN'T SHOOT THE *******'S DOWN! He swoops in, fires, damages me a little, and I have no hope of chasing him down in a Hercules. I shoot at him from a distance and miss, I fire missiles he evades them... finally I tried to hide somewhere around the Lucifer and he came and found me, shot once, and killed me. I hate them, hate them, hate them.
The worst part is that I almost beat the mission too. At least the first try. wingmen disabled the Lucifer's weapon systems, we had the -final reactor- down to 4% when the Lucy jumped out. Then on the second try, when I got mauled by the Dragon, for some reason our bombers were much less effective and did a really crappy job. That kind of inconsistancy was frustrating, doubly so because I had that infernal Dragon CONSTANTLY shooting at me. You'd think he'd be trying to shoot down the bombers, but noooo he was chasing ME down.
And this isn't the only occurrance of this. -EVERYTIME- I fight Dragons they do this. In either Freespace game. It just never ends. Can anyone shoot these things down consistantly? Because I find it utterly impossible without significant wingmen support. I play on Hard - Insane difficulty by the way, generally. Although I've already lost this mission several times on those difficulty levels so just now I was playing on medium when that Dragon mauled me.
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~-K
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Really new here...but REALLY glad I stumbled across this website. Havnt played FS2 in 6 long years. Good to know its still alive!!!!!!!!
And yes, though my memory is a lil worn I remember the dragons as being particularly irritating. The way I usually nailed the little bastages though was by grabbing some distance then heading straight for them. They'd usually head at me headfirst to fire or turn and then I'd wear down their shields.
Typical weapons makeup for me btw was the cannon that wears shields rapidly and does little hull damage (The name eludes me) and an assload of Dumbfires. Those always did me well. Please correct me if im wrong about somethin :P I'll be playin the ol' prog again once the package is done downloading!
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Well I'm a long time fan of Freespace, I've owned FS2 for many years now. I only recently played FS1 for the first time last spring though and loved it. Since I was already familiar with the story from playing FS2 it felt like reading through a history book of The Great War. Anyway, recently discovered that my FS2 discs aren't working right anymore so I downloaded the SCP pack (a great d/l) and played through the FS port. Finally just finished it this evening about an hour after starting this thread. Just played the first mission of FS2.
Anyway, the common motif of the series for me is this. I -hate- the Dragons. I mean, I don't know how the heck anyone stands against them. Whenever they show up I think Cypher from the Matrix telling Neo to run when he sees an agent... that's exactly how I feel about the Dragons. That jerk that frustrated me so much I had to start this thread to vent about it, he just flew circles around me and withered me down bit by bit. I landed maybe one shot on him and that was it. On the few occassions that I see Dragons in FS2 I generally run like hell. Given enough support from my wingmen I can generally take on anything the Shivans have on Insane difficulty... except Dragons. Even in FS1 when you encounter them and outnumber them, they manage to kill two of my guys for every Dragon that goes down.
I hate Dragons so much. I'll be shocked if somebody comes on here and says they have no problem shooting them down.
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@Skimmer
COMMAND: INCOMING JUMP SIGNATURE! NEW USER CONFIGURATION!
Helm! Ready all beam cannons!
Lock Beam Cannons and fire on my command!
FIRE!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/Turey/welcome2hlpbb.gif)
NO, YOU IDIOT! USE THE BIG BEAM CANNON!
FIRE!
:welcome:
Welcome to HLP! Exits are to the right and left. In the event of a landing of any kind, you can and will be used as a flotation device. Flamethrowers are conviniently located under your seats, however, due to the recent funding cuts, a $3.5 million donation is required to obtain a flamethrower with a full load of napalm in it. If you do not wish to make a donation, your flamethrower will remain filled with water. If you don't wish to donate and still want a working weapon, you'd have to try the weapons locker. However, only HLP Admins, a :v: God, or a Hyperintelligent shade of Blue can open the lock, so you'd have to break in. If you find yourself inside a ventilation shaft and you catch a glimpse of a Shivan, you don't need to worry... much. It's just Carl, and you have two choices with how you want to deal with him:
1. The first possible course of action is getting one of the weapons from the afore-mentioned weapons locker, and trying to ward off Carl by threatening him with the weapon. Be advised that many of the weapons in the weapons locker are covered with the blood of people who thought it a good idea to break into the weapons locker and use the procured weapon to ward off Carl. So, please, if you decide you want to choose this course of action, choose one of the already-bloody weapons, so you don't get blood all over one of the clean ones.
2. Your second course of action when you see Carl is to throw your lunch to him and hope he isn't hungry. This is the better option.
As a final note, please remember that any attempt to use the ASCII characters 0046h, 0053h, and 0033h in sequential order will result in you being trampled by Freespace Fanboys. Your trampled remains will be fed to Carl so that the rest of us don't have to carry around so much food for lunch.
I hate Dragons so much. I'll be shocked if somebody comes on here and says they have no problem shooting them down.
It's not that hard for me.
However, that's in an interceptor or a Ulysses, not in a Herc. In a Herc it's nigh impossible.
IMO, the best way to kill the lucy is to grab a Ursa for yourself and help out.
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There's a good reason why the Wiki says "Destroy via missiles at range if at all possible"...
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In FS1 I find the Dragons to be fairly efortless kills. Approach from > 5 km and use Phoenix. Works enevery time. One missile, one kill. That's a good tactic in the mission where Lucy destroyes that station and you have to cover the escpods.
And the last mission. Well grab Ursa and eat Lucy alive. Or grab Ulys and own everyone, and the wait that your wingmates get around killing the reactors.
FS2 is just pure missile genocide. Sit there and keep pumping out those missiles. No even Dragons can do **** about you.
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In a Herc you do as much damage as possible on the dragons first pass, I've taken them out that way. If you do have one buzzing around you then don't try to dogfight. Think of yourself as a turret; keep the dragon dodging your shots so it can't shoot back: I find the Banshee is a good anti-dragon gun.
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Dragon is by far the easiest fighter to kill considering the AI is predictable.
Dragon passes you, you're behind it, but instead of chasing it just stop your engines. He'll get to about 1k-1.5k away from you, then he'll turn to dogfight you again. Two ways of killing him. Primaries or secondaries. He won't evade either (unless you really suck). Dead Dragon without moving.
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Does Anyone Else HATE the Dragons?
*Raises hand
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You jsut need a steady hand - one salvo from a Herc will kill the bugger.
I suggest you try flying an Athena - it's faster and you can help to destroy the reacotrs.. Stillettos rock!
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Anything is good to destroy dragons! Theyre effortless kills if you are good with a Prometheus... 720degree turret = 0mps and just shooting around.
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I usually brought out the Ursa with a full deck of Harbingers. I have yet to play the last two missions in anything else.
Something about going for the big fish instead of the small fry...
The two Shivan fighters I really dislike the most are the Dragon and the non-canon Gorgon. Bangwal.
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Oh yeah. Dragons are a real ***** to fight up close. The easiest way is to put some distance between you and the Dragon, lock onto it with an aspect missile, and let loose.
I usually brought out the Ursa with a full deck of Harbingers. I have yet to play the last two missions in anything else.
Easiest way to beat the game. ;) My first time through I played the last mission with a Ulysses and a pair of D-Advanceds. My GOD, I cut that one close.
Speaking of that mission, I remember losing that mission once. The Lucifer jumped out, and my wings and I just sat there like dopes.
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Don't try and dogfight a Dragon, you're just asking for trouble. Basically, the key is to keep him in your sights and make sure he stays out of guns range. Easier said than done if you're in a slower fighter.
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I ****ing hate Dragons. The only approach that's ever worked for me is to have your wingmen help you. They always attack you and only you, making them easy to kill by your squadmates.
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A good way to kill them is with a fighter with a lot of firepower (Herc) and load up with Interceptors or Hornets, with primaries Banshee and Prometheus. Once the Dragon is in range of your missiles, fire a few to knock it off course and weaken its forward shields. While its still recovering, fire with all your primary firepower. This usually destroys them quickly.
Another way to fight them is when you're in a really annoying slow bomber that can't dogfight well and if you're tied up with Harbingers and Tsunamis. Allocate 75% of all energy to your shields and attack the Dragon head on. Fire your primaries at it, remembering to put the necessary energy onto your shields. If it breaks off to avoid collision, quickly press Q to equalize your shields. Keep it targetted. When you see in your targetting box it's coming in for a run, as quick as you can turn towards it and fire your primaries. Repeat as needed and that should kill it.
At least, that works on medium... :nervous:
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You jsut need a steady hand - one salvo from a Herc will kill the bugger.
I suggest you try flying an Athena - it's faster and you can help to destroy the reacotrs.. Stillettos rock!
The Stillettos barely do anything to the Luci's subsystems; screw it and bring a Bear.
The worst thing to fight a Dragon in is a Medusa
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I usually brought out the Ursa with a full deck of Harbingers. I have yet to play the last two missions in anything else.
Something about going for the big fish instead of the small fry...
The two Shivan fighters I really dislike the most are the Dragon and the non-canon Gorgon. Bangwal.
I took out 3 or four reactors that way, the ursa's did nothing. K, they got one reactor, cause I didn't have enough harbingers.
Dragons... distract em :D While they aren't looking, launch harpoons at them :P
Other than that, I raise my hand :ick:
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Dragons are teh uber!
but seriously, what is everyone complaining about?
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I hate scorpions, seems like I read somewhere that they are the only ship that can move in all 3 axis at once. Dragons don't concern me, lock at distance with tribuchets or close in with furies = dead.
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A good way to kill them is with a fighter with a lot of firepower (Herc) and load up with Interceptors or Hornets, with primaries Banshee and Prometheus. Once the Dragon is in range of your missiles, fire a few to knock it off course and weaken its forward shields. While its still recovering, fire with all your primary firepower. This usually destroys them quickly.
Another way to fight them is when you're in a really annoying slow bomber that can't dogfight well and if you're tied up with Harbingers and Tsunamis. Allocate 75% of all energy to your shields and attack the Dragon head on. Fire your primaries at it, remembering to put the necessary energy onto your shields. If it breaks off to avoid collision, quickly press Q to equalize your shields. Keep it targetted. When you see in your targetting box it's coming in for a run, as quick as you can turn towards it and fire your primaries. Repeat as needed and that should kill it.
At least, that works on medium... :nervous:
Hornets against a Dragon? :ick:
I usually just go gun-ho with a volley of Primary weapons fire and furies. Or just knock em out with dual interceptor blasts.
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I just play on Easy and pick them off en masse. :p
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I just play on Easy and pick them off en masse. :p
There stands a wise man. :p
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Why is everyone so angry about Dragons being hard to kill? I'm happy they're so tough! They are the only fighters to provide a decent challenge!
Basilisks= pathetic
Scorpions= better, but still weak
Manticores= look weird, and are fast, but weak
Maras= these are space superiority fighters?
Aeshmas= Basilisk clones
Astaroths= must be made out of wet paper...
Dragons= YAY! A challenging fighter!
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I took out 3 or four reactors that way, the ursa's did nothing. K, they got one reactor, cause I didn't have enough harbingers.
Dragons... distract em :D While they aren't looking, launch harpoons at them :P
Other than that, I raise my hand :ick:
What you probably don't realize (I didn't for years) is that it only takes ONE harbinger to take out a reactor, if you make sure every one of your bombs hits your target dead on you can take out both engine subsystems (prevents failure by running out of time) and all but one reactor.
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Same, all shivans suck except dragons, some maras (in some cases) and astaroths. They may be made of wet paper, but they have a hell of a pain in the ass hull shaping.
Not to mention modded ships.
Who hates vindycathal? Ya know, those bomber thingies with 3x the health and shields of a seraphim, with a small beam cannon, shivan super bombs, and 3 turrets, that can drop a Ca in about 2 minutes?
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The Astaroth is like the Dragon, only more annoying because it's even smaller.
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Can a Shivan even fit in an Astaroth? I suppose it doesn't matter because we don't know big the Shivans actually are (the outside may well be an artificial extension)
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Can a Shivan even fit in an Astaroth?
maybe they use midget Shivans?
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Can a Shivan even fit in an Astaroth? I suppose it doesn't matter because we don't know big the Shivans actually are (the outside may well be an artificial extension)
The outside is cybernetic, possibly the beam cannon as well, so it may be they just wired a brain and life-support gear into the fighter.
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Well no, I'm not -complaining- persay. One of the things I love about Freespace 2 is how difficult it can be, and the near invincible Dragons are part of that. Even with lesser Shivan fighters, they still tend to get you every so often. On higher difficulty levels, which is where I like to play, you need to learn to rely on your wingmen and work with them. I still remember the first time I changed to Hard difficulty, on the second level of FS2, and was amazed at how I kept getting wasted by the NTF fighters at the start of the mission. I had no idea how to avoid the missiles and they would just blast you to bits with their guns on the first pass. It takes practice. I also like that I don't usually come away with 20 kills every mission.
You know what it reminds me of actually is a PC game called Rowan's Battle of Britain - in my opinion the most realistic World War II sim ever created. In -that- game you learned to dread fighting enemy fighters and throughout the whole campaign you were lucky to get even five kills.
So when I complain about Dragons, it's actually a compliment. I dread Dragons and run from them like a scared little girl the same way I used to avoid Messerschmitt 109's like the plague in Rowan's BoB. And it's no coincidence that they're both my favorite games of their respective genres.
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The best way to kill a Dragon involves a Trebuchet and said fighter's tailpipe. While they're superb strike weapons, Trebs can cause some incredibly cheap fighter kills from time to time. They're not dogfighting weapons but the AI doesn't really have enough sense to properly dodge a Treb, meaning that long-range shots tend to pick off fighters one at a time. Save the Hornets, etc. for shooting at bombers and pick the damn escorts off (like Dragons or Maras, the things that can actually cause trouble) with Trebs.
As for Basilisks, they're targets, plain and simple. Heavily armed targets (vs. freighters) but targets, none the less.
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As for Basilisks, they're targets, plain and simple. Heavily armed targets (vs. freighters) but targets, none the less.
True that. I've got over 200 basilisk kills, while all my other ship kills are around 100-140 or less.
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Vindhyacals, Dragons, Gorgons, Maras... Dragons, small and really fast. Gorgons, they can be hard to hit because of their shape. I have yet to fight a Vindhyacal though.
No, I'm not complaining, just that sometimes when I'm not in a good mood, they can get irritating...
Every now and then they get on my nerves up to the point where I just change mods and launch my own breed of anti-fighter missiles at them. :lol:
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Every now and then they get on my nerves up to the point where I just change mods and launch my own breed of anti-fighter missiles at them. :lol:
I made a missile called the 'Chaos Swarm' which is basically a modification of the Rockeye which does less damage, but is much smaller and has a shorter firing rate, as well as better homing capability. This way, I load up in a Hercules Mark II or Ares (Cyone in Inferno) and just blast the thing. It doesn't matter if some of them don't hit. Some will. And that's all it takes. ;)
Oh, and I meant Tornadoes in my last post. They don't hit either, but still, they're... Interesting. Oh, another way to do it is to just ram the bastard and fire primaries while it's still recovering.
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Vindhyacals, Dragons, Gorgons, Maras... Dragons, small and really fast. Gorgons, they can be hard to hit because of their shape. I have yet to fight a Vindhyacal though.
No, I'm not complaining, just that sometimes when I'm not in a good mood, they can get irritating...
Every now and then they get on my nerves up to the point where I just change mods and launch my own breed of anti-fighter missiles at them. :lol:
Loooolll :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:. Vindhyacals, small and fast? :lol: :lol: :lol:
(fine, afterburner 195, but normal 35. And they have huuuge target area (at least on top)
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I believe, if you check the post a little closer, you'll see he was referring to Dragons as small and fast, not Vindy's. :p
Vindhyacals are nowhere near as tough as people say they are... unless, of course, you've got three of them attacking things that you're supposed to defend, then they are 90m of hell. :mad:
It's just that they have soooo much sheild strength. If you're not in a Herc 3 armed with Firestorm cannons, they can be a real pain to inflict damage on.
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Once you take out a Vindyachal's shield defense,many of your laser shots miss the target because of the shape.
The Maras isn't that powerful,they look fat and are quite "hittabble".
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One neat trick that I've had some success with on Dragons is to hammer it with a Morning Star and then either Harpoon or Tree the sucker while it's stunned.
Morning Stars are highly underrated as a defensive anti-fighter weapon - In one test my brother made, he armed bulldog turrets with morning stars instead of subachs and deployed them like a mine field - We couldn't get close enough to take them out with primary weapons!
If only ONE MS particle hits you, you get slowed *just* enough for the other 500 to hit you. Next thing you know, you're being pushed out of the minefield and facing the wrong way!
And a cap ship armed with nothing but anti-fighter beams and morning stars is freaking scary to attack...!
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The Maras isn't that powerful,they look fat and are quite "hittabble".
they sure gave me a run for my money when i first fought 'em.
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In large groups they can be pretty tricky, but when you become a more experienced pilot they're pretty easy. Bloody lot easier than them damned dragons!!
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In large groups they can be pretty tricky, but when you become a more experienced pilot they're pretty easy. Bloody lot easier than them damned dragons!!
I was born experienced!
You can beat the Dragons easily if you fly an Enceladus.
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The most annoying mission in FS1 is where you have to disable NOT destroy a dragon, And as i play on above-wuss difficulty. It took me about 15 minutes :mad:
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Uhh... the missile that I use is a one-hit-kill type...
To quote my weapon description directly:
Damages Hull 375, Shield 375, Subsystem 168.75
Flight Speed 350m/s, Range 1.75km
I have a habit of writing ultra long descriptions (Techroom stuff even more so), so they only show up right on 1024x768 and above. :sigh:
The Maras aren't that powerful, they look fat and are quite "hittabble".
I can agree with this to some extent...
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Maras are disappointingly easy to take down, but absolutely GLORIOUS to fly.
Against Dragons, though, I usually end up ramming the bastard and nailing him before he gets the chance to recover. Actually, I do that against pretty much all enemy fighters :D
Also, Dual-Harpoon/Interceptors
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Morning Stars are highly underrated as a defensive anti-fighter weapon
My Aegis fighter-killer cruiser used morning stars. Actually a mix of morning stars and subachs. The stars would fix enemy fighters in place and stop them getting close while the subachs did the damage. It was a nasty combinatoin.
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It's token from OTT?
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The Dragons can be quite challenging yes, although i can usually take them in dogfights. I prefer lightning-fast ships with paper thin armor and superior agility. I tend to fly like i've got ADHD and a sugar rush.
Oh, and hi btw :P I had no idea there was such a great freespace community, but im sure glad i found it.
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:welcome:
Welcome to the HLP Station, All references to FS and the number 3 must be removed from your person to prevent accidental :snipe:. Do not feed the redident Shivan Carl as he will become voracious and chew your leg off. Flamethrowers can be found under your seat but due to financial constraints have been re-filled with holy water, Phased Plasma rifles (40 watt range of course) can be found in storage lockers. To prevent act of n00b however, These can only be opened by Moderators, :v: or a hyperintelligent shade of BluE. In the event of catastrophioc hull failure please board the nearest lifeboat which is pre-programmed for autonymous flight to our sister station the Game-Warden outpost.
--HLP Is non-rufundable, all liable damages are waived on you're reading this with your eyes :nervous:
BTW was your dad an admiral?
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No, he is quite an ordinary civilian. Oh, and dragons are easy if you have a highly manueverable ship and a good joystick. After all, you only need to get one proper burst at them and they pop. Unfortunately, my dog tried to eat my joystick so now i'm stuck with keyboard :( I miss the microalignment...
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Keyboards how true FS veterans play 8)
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Maras are disappointingly easy to take down, but absolutely GLORIOUS to fly.
Against Dragons, though, I usually end up ramming the bastard and nailing him before he gets the chance to recover. Actually, I do that against pretty much all enemy fighters :D
Also, Dual-Harpoon/Interceptors
Dragons are the complete opposite. The Dragons were hell to take down but when I was flying them, on the often times I failed that mission I always got killed by the Lucifer's scatter missile and the Tridents shooting at me. :doubt:
Though, it is to be noted that they both have different stats.
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That Dragon truely sucks
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Well, at least it was fast enough so you could run away from the enemy ships...
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they sure gave me a run for my money when i first fought 'em.
well, that's because you were first in a Herc II with crappy weapons the first time you faced 'em. Maras fly circles around hercs, how at that stage in the game, just don't have the firepower to really hurt them in one salvo.
My Aegis fighter-killer cruiser used morning stars. Actually a mix of morning stars and subachs. The stars would fix enemy fighters in place and stop them getting close while the subachs did the damage. It was a nasty combination.
I've always liked the concept of Maxims, Prometheus cannons, or Kaysers being paired with morning stars on capships or turrets myself. That would be hell to take down. (can you say Super Aeolus?)
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Kaysers could probably do it on their own... when they're available I use 'em, and then I only ever use one.
Dual-firing Kaysers drains reactor power too quickly, as well as the fact that one Kayser is usually enough to do anything with. :cool:
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Kaysers could probably do it on their own... when they're available I use 'em, and then I only ever use one.
Dual-firing Kaysers drains reactor power too quickly, as well as the fact that one Kayser is usually enough to do anything with. :cool:
Do capships have to worry about energy levels?
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My favourite setup is typically a UD-8 paired up with a Maxim. I'd give the wingmen dual Kayser though.
For FS1, dual Prom, but that was two or three years ago when I was still playing FS1+ST retail.
Capships? Uhh... I prefer setting the AI class of the whole ship to General and then deck the cruiser out with Flak...
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I've made it through the whole FS 2 campaign on HARD (yes, quite a feat in my eyes) - I did it many years ago - but with the updates - the graphics are just soo good no with 3.6.9 I had to play through it again.
So I'm on part 2 of the bastion collapse the subspace portal mission - bastion blew up - bye bye portal - next round - defend ships evacuating the system while there is a swarm of dreadnaughts surrounding the sun - everything is going peachy on this mission - a couple of destroyers jump in - start taking them out along with more nahemas - when ... BAM! 6 - 8 dragons jump in and in a matter of 15 seconds ALL my wingmen are dead - every time...
Just like that - gone - nothing left. I then have 4 - 5 dragons bearing on me - I take out as many as I can in 15 seconds with Trebs but it is to no avail - they always get me in 15 - 30 more seconds.
Impossible I say - volition was full of sadists :-\ I've tried morningstar cannons - tried all sorts of arrangements - problem is I can't kill them fast enough and my wingmen are instant fodder - don't know what to do.
Long story short - dragons are nuts :(
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A couple of cruisers, you mean.
You have to destroy the Dragons at longe range with your Trebuchets. Anyway, the wingmen die before the Dragons jump in.
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Really now, you say they're hard? I can pop them off even in an Ursa; nothing can dodge the power of a Tornado flurry. It's just the mission where you have to disable it that was annoying...
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I'm going to have so much fun with you people once PXO is repaired in 3.6.10
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Multiplayer will be back on?
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Multiplayer is back on. There are still bugs that could be fixed (for instance stand alone servers appear to have issues) but there's nothing stopping you playing right now :)
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Multiplayer will be back on?
So taylor says.
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Uh DySkO told me that played multiplayer killing some fishies...
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Uh DySkO told me that played multiplayer killing some fishies...
13 zods, to be precise.
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It's the same.
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Say what now?
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Dragons are, IMHO, the most deadly fighter in the shivan arsenal. They've got a low target profile, and generally come in massive swarms. Maybe the Astaroth could be comparable with it. The only down-side to the Dragon is it doesnt have missiles.
Generally, if you can lock on with a harpoon and hit it with a double-barrage, that should knock it out. Otherwise, Kaysers should do the trick.
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They do too have missiles. They just don't use them very often (no Shivan fighters do... except maybe Basilisks when they're attacking a larger ship).
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They do too have missiles. They just don't use them very often (no Shivan fighters do... except maybe Basilisks when they're attacking a larger ship).
Well the Dragon has a missile bank, but shivans just dont use it. I noticed also that the shields on a Dragon seemed to be tougher then even some of the shivan bombers. I guess the reason it isnt used often is that the Dragon seems to be an elite intercepter, and shivans arent in the habit of using interceptors much anyway, they usually prefer swarming with maras or astaroths.
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You don't consider the Astaroth an Interceptor? :p
I'd say the Dragons are space superiority. They're certainly superior to most other craft in terms of maneuverability. I've found though, that it doesn't actually take too much to kill them; if you manage to hit two or three times with a good weapon, they go down fast. It's hitting them that's hard...
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You don't consider the Astaroth an Interceptor? :p
I'd say the Dragons are space superiority. They're certainly superior to most other craft in terms of maneuverability. I've found though, that it doesn't actually take too much to kill them; if you manage to hit two or three times with a good weapon, they go down fast. It's hitting them that's hard...
That, and their shields are unbelieveably tough.
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Actually, the comment about stopping and waiting for them to fly at you really is the best way to deal with them, it works in any craft, with almost any loadout. I typically found that solution out of sheer frustration at the short amount of time I could keep them in my sights, until I just stopped and waited for him to fly out, come back, and eat two harpoons in the face. Or tempests. Or 8 tornados. Or whatever I have. I've even destroyed them in bombers with one primary. But you can only afford to sit there if there's only _1_ ship attacking you at the time. Trying to take out a dragon near anything bigger than a Cain, that's another story...
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Dragons aren't too bad. I always take them out with timed accurate hits with powerful primaries. After that if they swarm you, get out of there. Mara's are also good to fight against, they're more of a challenge than the rest of the shivan fighters but not as much as a dragon.
A good shivan craft that can woop your ass is the seraphim. I hate taking those down en masse. A wing of seraphims has killed me several times when i was just in the wrong place at the right time because i just get worn down by them as they splatter me with shivan lasers. This has happened to me several times on the last mission in fs2, and a couple of times on the the mission where the shivans first re-appear after 30 years.