Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: redmenace on October 19, 2006, 08:03:38 am
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This is what I want to get. But I think the wheels look incredibly gay.
http://automobiles.honda.com/models/model_overview.asp?ModelName=Civic+Hybrid
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http://atsearch.autotrader.co.uk/www/cars_search.asp?nU=0&make=RELIANT&model=ROBIN&min_pr=75&max_pr=&postcode=se6%201aa&miles=40&max_records=50&modelexact=1&photo=1
For ovious reasons, thats not my real postcode ;)
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A Scion? My nephew has been telling me about it :D
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This is what I want to get. But I think the wheels look incredibly gay.
http://automobiles.honda.com/models/model_overview.asp?ModelName=Civic+Hybrid
Nevertheless, that's what I'd recommend. What I'd really like is for them to develop a hybrid with a sufficiently robust electrical motor and power system that this coupled combustion engine assist crap becomes unnecessary. The true power of of hybrid system comes when the combustion engine is only used for the generation of electricity. In that scenario, it only has to run at one speed and the design can be optimized for minimum emission/maximum efficiency at that speed (like the turbines of a power plant). For that matter, you could use a turbine instead of a piston/cylinder arrangement to REALLY reduce NOX emissions.
Sigh. Hope and wait. Until then, I think the hybrid Civic is your best option for clean running and all-around usefulness.
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Unless you get one of these (http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/C5club/) :lol:
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best option for clean running and all-around usefulness.
If clean running is all you care about, get a bicycle. :p
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best option for clean running and all-around usefulness.
If clean running is all you care about, get a bicycle. :p
Please note, I was only joking! Hence the smiley ;)
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For ovious reasons, thats not my real postcode ;)
:(
Damn, I was just planning to go over to your place and kill you, but then I read your sentence below the link.
:(
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For ovious reasons, thats not my real postcode ;)
:(
Damn, I was just planning to go over to your place and kill you, but then I read your sentence below the link.
:(
What did you plan to do, Kill everyone in the 22 properties (including a petrol station) that has that postcode?? :lol: :D
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Blackdove likes me really :)
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hybrids are bul****
buy a disel
it uses less fuel and creates less emissions
do some research if you dont belive me
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This is another good one http://www.toyota.com/camry/index.html?s_van=GM_TN_HYBRID_CAMRY
It looks better than the Civic Hybrid and cheaper and more efficient than the accord hybrid
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Any corporate sales site that says "use your arrows to drive the car" loses points with me beforee i even start... :lol:
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(http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en-commons/thumb/0/0d/250px-DuckTourBoston.agr.jpg)
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I think the regular civic is good. It has pretty damn good gas mileage and it's less expensive up-front than the hybrid.
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I am debating it. What I really want is the plug in to the wall hybrid types when they become availiable.
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I am debating it. What I really want is the plug in to the wall hybrid types when they become availiable.
That wouldn't be a hybrid, that would be a full electric. Hybrid means it has two propulsion systems, in this case one part gas, and one electric. (Like WWII era submarines!) Plug in types are electric only. Fuel Cell Vehicles are generally hybrids as well, part Fuel Cell and part electric.
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No, they are toying with the idea of adding far greater battery capacity to hybrids and just plugging them into an outlet to recharge over night. It would still have a gas engine for freeway travel.
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@ Ashrak,
I've done a lot of research, and I disagree completely. While I will grant you that you will always get more power out of diesel than gasoline, it does NOT burn cleaner at all, least of all in the States because our diesel fuel standards suck. That will improve with some of the new fuel and diesel engine standards we finally got passed, but it still isn't as good as what is available in Europe already. Oh well, at least now they can hook up catalytic converters without the sulfur immediately poisoning them.
But to the point, you can run a hybrid on whatever fuel you want. If you want to run a hybrid on diesel, more power to you. The advantage of a hybrid is its ability to minimize the time that the engine is on and, when it is on, run it in a more efficient fashion than is possible in a system that does not have electric drive.
The biggest problem with diesel compression-ignition engines is that they...-it's a combination of things, really. Part of the reason a diesel engine is more powerful/energy efficient than a gasoline engine is that it burns hotter and with a higher compression ratio. They also don't throttle the air used to burn the fuel. Gasoline engines are controlled by deliberately lowering their pumping efficiency (throttling the air intake). Diesel engines are always operated wide open, pumping as much air into the cylinder as you can. Control is handled by fuel injection rate.* So, diesel engines are always running lean (more air present than needed for a complete burn). i.e., there is plenty of oxygen left over once the fuel is burned to react with nitrogen. The consequence of oxygen and high temperature is that the nitrogen chemistry takes off like a rocket. NOx emissions from diesel engines are horrible, and only new engines will be able to use catalytic converters to reduce the NOx down to something remotely acceptable. Not having seen such engines in action, I cannot speculate whether the emission reductions will be good, adequate, or hardly better than they are now.
But a diesel turbine-driven hybrid? Now that's something that might work pretty well, and I'd sure love to see one attempted. A turbine might be run lean enough to bring the flame temperature down so that nitrogen chemistry isn't as much of a problem. Higher residence times in turbines mean soot and HC emissions should also be reduced.
*I'm talking about conventional SI and CI engines here, not GDI or HCCI or any of the other interesting concepts that most of the industry has refused to adopt. I know there are plenty of alternative engine designs out there which use other control mechanisms.
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What would be nice would be the Tesla car with it's energy positive system (using solar panels). Anyway...
How old are you? That will be a large factor, mainly insurance wise, as to your choice of car.@ Ashrak,
I've done a lot of research, and I disagree completely. While I will grant you that you will always get more power out of diesel than gasoline, it does NOT burn cleaner at all, least of all in the States because our diesel fuel standards suck. That will improve with some of the new fuel and diesel engine standards we finally got passed, but it still isn't as good as what is available in Europe already. Oh well, at least now they can hook up catalytic converters without the sulfur immediately poisoning them.
But to the point, you can run a hybrid on whatever fuel you want. If you want to run a hybrid on diesel, more power to you. The advantage of a hybrid is its ability to minimize the time that the engine is on and, when it is on, run it in a more efficient fashion than is possible in a system that does not have electric drive.
The biggest problem with diesel compression-ignition engines is that they...-it's a combination of things, really. Part of the reason a diesel engine is more powerful/energy efficient than a gasoline engine is that it burns hotter and with a higher compression ratio. They also don't throttle the air used to burn the fuel. Gasoline engines are controlled by deliberately lowering their pumping efficiency (throttling the air intake). Diesel engines are always operated wide open, pumping as much air into the cylinder as you can. Control is handled by fuel injection rate.* So, diesel engines are always running lean (more air present than needed for a complete burn). i.e., there is plenty of oxygen left over once the fuel is burned to react with nitrogen. The consequence of oxygen and high temperature is that the nitrogen chemistry takes off like a rocket. NOx emissions from diesel engines are horrible, and only new engines will be able to use catalytic converters to reduce the NOx down to something remotely acceptable. Not having seen such engines in action, I cannot speculate whether the emission reductions will be good, adequate, or hardly better than they are now.
But a diesel turbine-driven hybrid? Now that's something that might work pretty well, and I'd sure love to see one attempted. A turbine might be run lean enough to bring the flame temperature down so that nitrogen chemistry isn't as much of a problem. Higher residence times in turbines mean soot and HC emissions should also be reduced.
*I'm talking about conventional SI and CI engines here, not GDI or HCCI or any of the other interesting concepts that most of the industry has refused to adopt. I know there are plenty of alternative engine designs out there which use other control mechanisms.
Most Diesel engines are considered "cleaner" because they achieve greater mileage, and thus produce less toxic emissions over the length of a journey when compared to an equally powerful petrol engine. A 1.5 diesel engine in a little Kia Rio will produce less emissions over a typical journey than it's petrol counterpart (even at smaller engine sizes). For a more practical example, lets look at the Ford Focus (European version, naturally):
The EURO4 standard is one of the strictest on the planet right now, and a new Ford Focus 1.6 TDCI will pass it with flying colours.
1.6 TDCI: 127g/km
1.6 Zetec Petrol: 155g/km
There is however a possible issue in the US that I can't be sure of - are Diesel Particulate Filters common or unused in modern diesels?
I will conceed that to some degree you are right - in the USA there is a serious need for Diesel standard to be improved: Cetane ratings need to be raised to EU standards before anything I've said can be taken as 100% gospel.
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Yes, it is mostly a US problem. My professors were constantly *****ing about how they can't use diesel engines effectively here because the fuel itself has so much sulfur in it that any kind of catalytic converters get poisoned to the point where they are useless almost immediately. Cleaner diesel standards were recently passed, but IIRC, they still aren't up to European standards which have been around for quite some time.
BTW, unless I misunderstand you, "particulate filters" don't have any effect on the emissions I'm talking about. Soot emissions are an entirely different phenomenon and much easier to address than NOx emissions (which are responsible for the lovely yellow haze you see hovering over major cities these days).
Also, the efficiency improvements gained by a diesel engine are hindered by the fact that the engine has to be significantly heavier. Higher compression ratio --> higher loads --> additional strength required --> heavier. I'm not disagreeing with you, though. A diesel car should be more fuel efficient than a gasoline car, but I question Ashrak's notion that a diesel car is more fuel efficient than a gasoline hybrid car. Unfortunately, I'm not aware of a vehicle that comes in gasoline, diesel, and hybrid trims for direct comparison. I'd certainly be interested in a diesel Civic.
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I almost forgot: LPG (Autogas) if you can. Clean, lower tax band (at least in the UK) and should be fairly easy to convert your engine to it.
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I wish I could afford a new car. :(
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I wish I could afford this. (http://www.chrysler.co.uk/chrysler/300chome.aspx?ID=248,17&vd=1%20)
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A VW Golf would souit me fine if the female in my life didnt keep meat vortexing my mainstream £££, :lol:
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I wouldn't buy a modern diesel simply because things like trick turbos and the fuel systems are so complicated they cost an absolute fortune to fix, warranty aside.
Y'know, Chrysler had a whack at a turbine powered motor in the 60/70s but the nitrous oxide emissions (the stuf that produces acid rain) were too high.
Also, GM had a decent electric car in '97 that could crack 0-60 in 8 seconds but they were all reaqquired amid calls of a conspiracy.
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I'm plotting to buy a 2007 Mazda3 Sport sometime in the spring. If you're looking for a decent small car or hatchback (MZ3 comes in both) have a look at it. No hybrid options mind you...but the fuel efficiency is pretty good.