Hard Light Productions Forums

Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The Modding Workshop => Topic started by: Raptor on October 28, 2006, 02:04:54 pm

Title: Mark II Ursa?
Post by: Raptor on October 28, 2006, 02:04:54 pm
My idea of what a Ursa Mark II could look like:
(http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/6668/ursa201ma9.jpg)
(http://img325.imageshack.us/img325/7104/ursa202nn0.th.jpg) (http://img325.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ursa202nn0.jpg)
(http://img113.imageshack.us/img113/4314/ursa203bq8.th.jpg) (http://img113.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ursa203bq8.jpg)
(http://img325.imageshack.us/img325/2594/ursa204mp9.th.jpg) (http://img325.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ursa204mp9.jpg)

Current payload is 240 hornets and 20 (10+10) Helios torpedoes.  I'm aiming at making LOD1, UVmap it and create the texture, then use the map to detail up LOD0.  Also planing pilot + 3 gunners (nose, dorsal & ventral) in cockpit, so if someone could just recap how that is done... (I know it involves submodels, but I can't quite recall which parts need to be submodels)
Title: Re: Mark II Ursa?
Post by: Unknown Target on October 28, 2006, 02:18:56 pm
Looks good but those wings really don't do it for me. They mess up the profile and the whole "Big + Tough" look of the Ursa.
Title: Re: Mark II Ursa?
Post by: Snail on October 28, 2006, 02:33:46 pm
Yeah, the wings look bad. Why not just replace them with missile pods behind the chainguns or underneath the turrets. Also, there is another Ursa Mark II in Inferno which was based of someone called Scorpius' design which looks like this:

(http://geocities.com/alpha_quadrant_project/conceptpics/GTB_UrsaMarkII.jpg)
(http://inferno.hard-light.net/Glory/008ursa2.jpg)

But I like your design much better. Makes it more intimidating. ;)
Title: Re: Mark II Ursa?
Post by: Taristin on October 28, 2006, 03:04:12 pm
The top and side views need more shape to them on Raptor's.
The Inferno one would probably look much better with more FS-2-like Textures, rather than the old Ursa great-war-era skins. If you're going to do a modern "mk II" (Which is a cop out on naming) then do it right, IMO.
Title: Re: Mark II Ursa?
Post by: Snail on October 28, 2006, 03:09:15 pm
Should I delete this post?
Title: Re: Mark II Ursa?
Post by: Raptor on October 28, 2006, 04:08:32 pm
Well, it is still in development...

I'll have a look at it wingless...

And count me among those who are... dubious... about Inferno.
Title: Re: Mark II Ursa?
Post by: Dark Hunter on October 28, 2006, 04:08:44 pm
Not everyone shares your views on the Massive Mobile Plothole TM in Inferno, Snail, if that's what you're referring to.

@Raptor: Yay! Gatling guns!  :yes:
Title: Re: Mark II Ursa?
Post by: Snail on October 28, 2006, 04:25:53 pm
I think Inferno has less storyline than some campaigns (such as MT), but at least it doesn't have an Alpha 1 character (like BWO, one of the reasons I'm not an uber fanboy of that) and Fenris with invulnerable flags with BFReds stuck onto them (numerous ;)).

But I like Inferno because it has lots of medium-to-high quality ships, new ideas (such as secondary anti-cap armaments, the bomber PAC system, etc.), and most importantly, it's fun (well at least R1 was anyway)....
Title: Re: Mark II Ursa?
Post by: Taristin on October 28, 2006, 06:01:19 pm
Umm... Ive said nothing about Inferno here. I have said that if the model was supposedly made after the great war, as was the case with the Perseus, Erinyes, Ares, herc II and all the others, then the mapping scheme should match. As it stands, that Ursa II is a new model with old textures.
The Kurruk thing was a result of my own actions, and I hold no animosity or bad feelings for it. So, please Drop it, and Dont infer more out of my posts than what I actually say. Im not looking for any more trouble.
Title: Re: Mark II Ursa?
Post by: Woomeister on October 28, 2006, 06:06:15 pm
that Ursa II is a new model with old textures.
Nothing I can do about that since I can't make texture maps, so I used the ones that I thought would be easiest to match the mesh, which was the original Ursa ones.
Title: Re: Mark II Ursa?
Post by: Taristin on October 28, 2006, 06:17:23 pm
Ok. Im not saying that that makes it bad. Just that it doesnt match with a FS-2 fleet. It could very well match the Inferno fleet perfectly for all I know.
Title: Re: Mark II Ursa?
Post by: Snail on October 28, 2006, 06:39:39 pm
Sorry, Taristin, I deleted any reference to it.



Anyway, back on topic now, how will Raptor's Ursa II be textured?
Title: Re: Mark II Ursa?
Post by: NGTM-1R on October 28, 2006, 08:19:24 pm
When you make a Mark II, it generally behooves you to make the family resemblence a tad more obvious...
Title: Re: Mark II Ursa?
Post by: Raven2001 on October 29, 2006, 09:27:52 am
UGH!! Please dont use that model of mine... its old, clumsy and imperfect
Title: Re: Mark II Ursa?
Post by: Raptor on October 29, 2006, 11:17:40 am
Only just had a chance to do some more to this... been focused on the Hera.

(http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/6081/ursa205pv5.th.jpg) (http://img129.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ursa205pv5.jpg)
(http://img107.imageshack.us/img107/1031/ursa206qf4.th.jpg) (http://img107.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ursa206qf4.jpg)

Narrowed the 'waist' (as it were), narrowed the leading intakes, did most on the extrudes/indents that I didn't do for the last set of images.  The red patches on the wings are areas I had planned to indent.

You know, I expected people to moan more about the engines than the wings...
Title: Re: Mark II Ursa?
Post by: Snail on October 29, 2006, 12:48:13 pm
UGH!! Please dont use that model of mine... its old, clumsy and imperfect

You mean the Inferno Mark II? Go protest to Woo. He's pretty adamant about that stuff but I think he'll be different if he gets something from the maker himself.

Only just had a chance to do some more to this... been focused on the Hera.

(http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/6081/ursa205pv5.th.jpg) (http://img129.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ursa205pv5.jpg)
(http://img107.imageshack.us/img107/1031/ursa206qf4.th.jpg) (http://img107.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ursa206qf4.jpg)

Narrowed the 'waist' (as it were), narrowed the leading intakes, did most on the extrudes/indents that I didn't do for the last set of images.  The red patches on the wings are areas I had planned to indent.

You know, I expected people to moan more about the engines than the wings...

The wings make it look non-solid. The reason why I liked the Ursa was because it was, esentially, a giant flying brick with a load of bombs stuck to it. That made it look tough and compact. However, the wings on the Mark II make it look less like a brick.

I don't see what's wrong with the engines. I like it, looks better than the original Ursa, IMO.
Title: Re: Mark II Ursa?
Post by: Scorpius on November 02, 2006, 04:58:24 pm
Wow.. I haven't seen that drawing in years. I'm surprised you guys still remembered it. It's kinda flattering actually  :) .
Title: Re: Mark II Ursa?
Post by: Turey on November 02, 2006, 06:25:53 pm
The wings make it look non-solid. The reason why I liked the Ursa was because it was, essentially, a giant flying brick with a load of bombs stuck to it. That made it look tough and compact. However, the wings on the Mark II make it look less like a brick.

Exactly. If it doesn't look like a brick and maneuver like a brick, it isn't an Ursa.
Title: Re: Mark II Ursa?
Post by: Snail on November 03, 2006, 09:23:05 am
Wow.. I haven't seen that drawing in years. I'm surprised you guys still remembered it. It's kinda flattering actually  :) .

Actually, I found that on one of my Google travels. The drawing IMO is better than the model (no offense to whoever made it (Raven2001?))
Title: Re: Mark II Ursa?
Post by: Raptor on November 06, 2006, 07:25:28 am
Okay, here's how it looks without the wings:
(http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/5918/ursa207wj1.th.jpg) (http://img155.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ursa207wj1.jpg)
(http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/4384/ursa208hw0.th.jpg) (http://img155.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ursa208hw0.jpg)
(http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/6547/ursa209rc5.th.jpg) (http://img100.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ursa209rc5.jpg)
The missile pod itself is the same shape.  It's not yet attached, so the position can be altered a bit.

I personally like the wings, but I can see the point of 'no wings = compact'...

A close-up of the cockpit (such as it is, may be reworked a bit more on the leading edge):
(http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/6115/ursa210zm8.th.jpg) (http://img155.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ursa210zm8.jpg)
Title: Re: Mark II Ursa?
Post by: Colonol Dekker on November 06, 2006, 07:37:01 am
When you make a Mark II, it generally behooves you to make the family resemblence a tad more obvious...

I dont think the Herc MK2 looks much like the original Hercy though....... :)
Title: Re: Mark II Ursa?
Post by: Nuke on November 06, 2006, 07:59:27 am
your gatling guns are too small :D
Title: Re: Mark II Ursa?
Post by: asyikarea51 on November 06, 2006, 08:05:14 am
umm... I've already gotten myself used to R2's Ursa II, but Raptor's one isn't bad either.

I only have one gripe concerning the quad rear engines on Raptor's one. Maybe they're too boxy or something. :nervous:

Miniguns, eh... *goes off to ponder the... "issue"...*
Title: Re: Mark II Ursa?
Post by: Colonol Dekker on November 06, 2006, 08:06:54 am
your gatling guns are too small :D

But it allows a higher volume of Ammo to be carried *AHAHHHH*  :lol:
Title: Re: Mark II Ursa?
Post by: Raptor on November 06, 2006, 12:41:57 pm
Quote from: Nuke
your gatling guns are too small :D

Too small? :wtf:  The bore of the barrels is larger than a mans head...

Quote from: Colonol Dekker
But it allows a higher volume of Ammo to be carried *AHAHHHH*  :lol:

Exactly ;)  I reached that same issuse with the Zoid I designed.  The original version had ~240 rounds per vulcan.  The final has 10k per :pimp:

Quote from: asyikarea51
umm... I've already gotten myself used to R2's Ursa II, but Raptor's one isn't bad either.

I only have one gripe concerning the quad rear engines on Raptor's one. Maybe they're too boxy or something. :nervous:

Miniguns, eh... *goes off to ponder the... "issue"...*

Well, I can rework the engines into two tall, thin strips (bit like the original actually... :doubt:)

Not sure what you mean by 'issue' concerning the vulcans though...

Any other comments people?
Title: Re: Mark II Ursa?
Post by: achtung on November 06, 2006, 01:05:42 pm
You could just claim the wings to be an EFAMS type thing, then use the animation code on them or something.

Of course, I have no idea how hard it would be to use animations, so if it's a ridiculous idea, forget about it.
Title: Re: Mark II Ursa?
Post by: Colonol Dekker on November 07, 2006, 05:52:06 am
*goes to google/wiki EFAMS*  :)
Title: Re: Mark II Ursa?
Post by: Snail on November 07, 2006, 12:55:35 pm
umm... I've already gotten myself used to R2's Ursa II, but Raptor's one isn't bad either.

I only have one gripe concerning the quad rear engines on Raptor's one. Maybe they're too boxy or something. :nervous:

Actually, I like Raptor's Ursa better than the INF SCP Ursa. Provided it's not too high poly, it could be dropped in with some tweaking, but I doubt Woo will ever do that. :doubt:

And maybe Raptor won't like it either, since he said he was

... dubious... about Inferno.

Not that I'm sour about that remark or anything, I know a lot of people don't think highly of Inferno.
Title: Re: Mark II Ursa?
Post by: Nuke on November 07, 2006, 04:06:21 pm
Quote from: Nuke
your gatling guns are too small :D

Too small? :wtf:  The bore of the barrels is larger than a mans head...


still its not big enough :D
Title: Re: Mark II Ursa?
Post by: Trivial Psychic on November 07, 2006, 11:15:01 pm
You could just claim the wings to be an EFAMS type thing, then use the animation code on them or something.

Of course, I have no idea how hard it would be to use animations, so if it's a ridiculous idea, forget about it.
Are you referring to some kind of folding wing & weapons pod arrangement, similar to the drop-ships from "Aliens"?  I actually think that would be rather cool.  A), have a single, shoulder-mounted anhedral wing (no biplane) and pod that hinges down against the sides of the craft during stowage, B), a singe low-mounted dihedral wing which hinges upwards against the side of the craft during stowage, C), both of these, though the 2 wings would need to be staggered, with the 2 pods meeting up when fully deployed (resembling a B5 Whitestar), or perhaps a configuration that looks more like the "Aliens" drop ship, with upper-mounted dihedral and lower-mounted anhedral, each folding back into the fuselage during stowage.
Title: Re: Mark II Ursa?
Post by: Colonol Dekker on November 08, 2006, 04:08:00 am
Hedral this, Hedral that........... :confused:


Draw a pic in MS Paint and post it :nod:
Title: Re: Mark II Ursa?
Post by: Trivial Psychic on November 08, 2006, 11:24:47 pm
Done

(http://www3.sympatico.ca/daniel.topps/WingFoldingDemo.JPG)
Title: Re: Mark II Ursa?
Post by: Colonol Dekker on November 09, 2006, 05:00:36 am
*mc-snort* Ok i see how ya mean, Very nice, is this an implementable feature, Would it involve locking fire points to sub-objects and cause mega bumps or is it a good thing?


I need to know *SQueeeee in the pipe 5 by 5*
Title: Re: Mark II Ursa?
Post by: Snail on November 09, 2006, 02:26:05 pm
T'would be cool if someone could make a Jotun model where the missile pods go in and out (there are arrows showing where they should move).

Not for Inferno, Woo doesn't want to have animated things like that, for me. ;)
Title: Re: Mark II Ursa?
Post by: Raptor on November 10, 2006, 03:42:04 am
Sadly, I don't have a clue how to do that :(

Would be cool if when you selected the Hornet (or other small missile) rack, the pods folded out, ready to fire.  And then when you selected something else, they folded back in again.

Although I kind of think the 'Aliens' Dropship looked a little... strange when it did that :doubt:

Quote from: Snail
Quote from: asyikarea51
umm... I've already gotten myself used to R2's Ursa II, but Raptor's one isn't bad either.

I only have one gripe concerning the quad rear engines on Raptor's one. Maybe they're too boxy or something. :nervous:

Actually, I like Raptor's Ursa better than the INF SCP Ursa. Provided it's not too high poly, it could be dropped in with some tweaking, but I doubt Woo will ever do that. :doubt:

And maybe Raptor won't like it either, since he said he was

Quote from: Raptor
... dubious... about Inferno.

Not that I'm sour about that remark or anything, I know a lot of people don't think highly of Inferno.

You assume wrong.  I wouldn't mind at all if Inferno wanted to use my Ursa Mk2 ;7

My main compliant about Inferno is about the ships themselves, rather than anything else.  In my eyes, they are ugly.  But (and I stress) that is just my opinion

There is also fact that a single solar system, even if it is Sol, can build a massive fleet of ships, including a 17(?)km long monster, after having to under a radical transistion (and possible depression), which just happen to mount beams... when they have not seen the technology until contact with the GTVA :wtf:

I would have only given them a half dozen 1k frigates, no beams... maybe a super destroyer flagship.
Title: Re: Mark II Ursa?
Post by: Vasudan Admiral on November 10, 2006, 05:03:55 am
Sadly, I don't have a clue how to do that :(
If you can make rotating multipart turrets, you already know most things you need to to be able to create a submodel animation. ;)

And the wiki is your friend for everything else! :D http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Animation_Code
Title: Re: Mark II Ursa?
Post by: Snail on November 10, 2006, 09:05:18 am

There is also fact that a single solar system, even if it is Sol, can build a massive fleet of ships, including a 17(?)km long monster, after having to under a radical transistion (and possible depression), which just happen to mount beams... when they have not seen the technology until contact with the GTVA :wtf:

I would have only given them a half dozen 1k frigates, no beams... maybe a super destroyer flagship.


Same thing here about the Icanus, in fact I even made a thread 'debating' (complaining?) about that recently, but by heart I like Inferno. Because, yadda, yadda.

However, I would've given them beams because they would have had the Lucy's wreckage to work on anyway.

I do think some of the ships look ugly, but I think Inferno is possibly the closest thing we will get to FS --- 3.

In my eyes, there are two ways people invision FS --- 3.

1) A rapeload of new ships and weapons, concentration more on the actual missions than the storyline (though there is still one), etc. (Inferno)

2) A few new ships, super dooper Goober concentrated on the storyline, atmosphere setting missions. (Sync, BWO)

But now we're getting off topic so I'll try not to go into it any deeper.


So, about the Ursa II itself, will it be a public release or a super secretive forget about it thing going into a campaign? I would like to get my hands on this, looks like fun for blowing stuff up. ;)
Title: Re: Mark II Ursa?
Post by: Raptor on November 11, 2006, 03:27:23 am
Quote from: Snail
However, I would've given them beams because they would have had the Lucy's wreckage to work on anyway.

I would be so sure, since when the lucy blew, that would have pretty much wrecked the cannons.  And correct me if I'm wrong, but when the jump node collasped with the Lucy only partly out, didn't it come down in front of the beams? (I'm regarding the bulges behind the 'arms' as being where the main beams are located, not on the arms itself)

Still, even if I'm wrong, I'd put the beams only on the flagship.


Quote from: Snail
So, about the Ursa II itself, will it be a public release or a super secretive forget about it thing going into a campaign? I would like to get my hands on this, looks like fun for blowing stuff up. ;)

All my stuff that I post here is going to be publicly released ;)  When, however is another matter... :nervous:

Quote from: Vasudan Admiral
If you can make rotating multipart turrets, you already know most things you need to to be able to create a submodel animation. ;)

And the wiki is your friend for everything else! :D http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Animation_Code

Thanks VA.  I'll take a look-see.  Depending on how hard it would be, it might come in, if people want it.

Any other comments on the ship people?
Title: Re: Mark II Ursa?
Post by: Raptor on November 19, 2006, 02:44:28 pm
Sorry I haven't been working much on this.  Just got over a case of writers block on the latest stroy of my 'Legacies' arc.

Here is how it looks with two tall thin engines... sort of.  I've only done the one, and I haven't detailed it up yet.
(http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/5056/ursa211cb5.th.jpg) (http://img247.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ursa211cb5.jpg)
(http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/9973/ursa212ri0.th.jpg) (http://img243.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ursa212ri0.jpg)
Title: Re: Mark II Ursa?
Post by: Snail on November 19, 2006, 04:09:35 pm
:lol:
LOL

That looks hillarious. But I still like the one with two (four) small ones.
Title: Re: Mark II Ursa?
Post by: nubbles526 on November 20, 2006, 11:47:11 am
:lol:
LOL

That looks hillarious. But I still like the one with two (four) small ones.

Yea, lets see how it looks like with textures