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Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: redmenace on October 31, 2006, 09:33:21 am

Title: Victim of the 10 Second Sound Bite?
Post by: redmenace on October 31, 2006, 09:33:21 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLuMWiQ6r2o
Really, I am not sure wtf he is trying to say.
Title: Re: Victim of the 10 Second Sound Bite?
Post by: Unknown Target on October 31, 2006, 09:37:57 am
Think it was supposed to be a joke...
Title: Re: Victim of the 10 Second Sound Bite?
Post by: redmenace on October 31, 2006, 09:40:26 am
If it were, its not very funny.
Title: Re: Victim of the 10 Second Sound Bite?
Post by: Flipside on October 31, 2006, 09:49:07 am
Well, considering how quickly it cut off, I'm not even certain that was the end of the sentence.
Title: Re: Victim of the 10 Second Sound Bite?
Post by: Turambar on October 31, 2006, 10:52:41 am
its funny cause its true.
Title: Re: Victim of the 10 Second Sound Bite?
Post by: redmenace on October 31, 2006, 11:15:35 am
Eh, I would disagree with that. If there was a draft that might be the case.
Title: Re: Victim of the 10 Second Sound Bite?
Post by: redmenace on October 31, 2006, 12:26:31 pm
http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/10/31/D8L3OTV00.html
I am just flabergasted at both Kerry and the Whitehouse.
Title: Re: Victim of the 10 Second Sound Bite?
Post by: bloated on October 31, 2006, 12:40:57 pm
it wasn't a joke, had it been it wouldn't be a funny one.

but without a doubt it wasn't a joke.

as for the comment I'm not sure it bears relevance but given their is no draft atm it's more a throwback from the Vietnam days.

all of that said I can understand why Kerry has little respect for being condemned by ppl who've never been to war but were so eager to send other ppls sons and daughter to die in one.
Title: Re: Victim of the 10 Second Sound Bite?
Post by: redmenace on October 31, 2006, 01:19:02 pm
Actually, IIRC, McCain has also condemned these comments.
Title: Re: Victim of the 10 Second Sound Bite?
Post by: Unknown Target on October 31, 2006, 02:30:58 pm
Condemned which comments? Kerry's or those against him?

EDIT: And where the **** were these balls in the Bush vs. Kerry election?

Quote
"This is the classic GOP playbook," Kerry said in a harshly worded statement. "I'm sick and tired of these despicable Republican attacks that always seem to come from those who never can be found to serve in war, but love to attack those who did. I'm not going to be lectured by a stuffed suit White House mouthpiece standing behind a podium."
Title: Re: Victim of the 10 Second Sound Bite?
Post by: redmenace on October 31, 2006, 02:35:54 pm
Same place he left his brain on monday I suppose.

McCain condemned Kerry's comments.
Title: Re: Victim of the 10 Second Sound Bite?
Post by: Kosh on October 31, 2006, 05:48:53 pm
Yet another battle in the sound bite wars. :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Victim of the 10 Second Sound Bite?
Post by: Mr. Vega on October 31, 2006, 06:02:33 pm
All he said was that we're sending the poor/dropouts and such to Iraq. What's so special about that?
Title: Re: Victim of the 10 Second Sound Bite?
Post by: redmenace on October 31, 2006, 06:14:34 pm
In so much that it is not 100% true and in some cases insulting.
Title: Re: Victim of the 10 Second Sound Bite?
Post by: Aardwolf on October 31, 2006, 06:17:08 pm
Soon Kazan will find this thread, and then... something...
Title: Re: Victim of the 10 Second Sound Bite?
Post by: WMCoolmon on October 31, 2006, 07:33:22 pm
Insensitive as his remark may be, Kerry's remark has a fair chunk of reasoning to back it up. In fact, I daresay that if you're posting on this forum, you almost certainly agree with him. The chief demographic of this message board seems to be college-age males, yet nobody that I know of has signed up for the USAF and is serving in Iraq.

Look at it this way: Kerry is speaking from the POV of somebody who is part of the group that gets to tell the people in Iraq what to do. Dropping out of school is probably not going to be conductive to getting a career as a politician. I would be interested in the statistics of education level of US Congressman, but I digress. Most people have a very healthy aversion to putting themselves in a situation where they're in danger of being shot at, blown up, etc etc. Some people are willing to serve on the basis that they feel that it is the right thing to do. But I'm sure that a number of other people join the USAF in order to secure themselves a better future. (I've thought about it)

Now from what I've heard, you do get at least some choice in your assignment when you join up. So the remark isn't literally true. But I think there's enough truth to the remark that it's had an effect, and that's part of the reason why the White House even bothered to respond to it. I would be much more amused if Kerry had made a remark about 'President Bush eats babies', but I doubt the white house would be demanding Kerry apologize to people's families in that case.
Title: Re: Victim of the 10 Second Sound Bite?
Post by: Cobra on October 31, 2006, 07:55:28 pm
http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/10/31/D8L3OTV00.html
I am just flabergasted at both Kerry and the Whitehouse.

IMO, Kerry is just a loudmouthed dumb****. I mean really, he believes that the three purple hearts he won in the Vietnam war make him automatically eligible to run things, and if whatever he wants doesn't go his way, he throws a fit and attacks the Republicans. "Heroics of the Vietnamese war" my ass. Isn't the purple heart there for facing a deadly wound and living? Oh, and why the hell would Kerry have a news crew following him in his hoverboat, anyway?
Title: Re: Victim of the 10 Second Sound Bite?
Post by: redmenace on October 31, 2006, 08:07:08 pm
For the most part, saying being uneducated will mean you will go to Iraq is untrue. Yes your choices are limited but not so limited that it is either get an education or get blown up by an IED.
Title: Re: Victim of the 10 Second Sound Bite?
Post by: redmenace on October 31, 2006, 08:15:19 pm
http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/story?id=2619383&page=2
"I guess Kerry wasn't content blowing 2004, now he wants to blow 2006, too."
 :wakka:
Title: Re: Victim of the 10 Second Sound Bite?
Post by: Cobra on October 31, 2006, 08:18:14 pm
For the most part, saying being uneducated will mean you will go to Iraq is untrue. Yes your choices are limited but not so limited that it is either get an education or get blown up by an IED.

It REALLY pisses me off because my father's in the military, too. ****ing asshole needs to learn when to keep his goddamn mouth shut. Dumbass.
Title: Re: Victim of the 10 Second Sound Bite?
Post by: Mefustae on October 31, 2006, 08:23:01 pm
Ironically, you're acting rather uneducated yourself, redmenace. He's not saying that only the uneducated go to Iraq, nor is he saying that lack of education means you have to go to Iraq. He is merely alluding to the fact that if you drop out of high-school, service is one of the few careers still open to you. Linking this fact to the rather sorry state of the US education system is only logical.

It's just common sense that he's not calling every serving individual uneducated, only that there are [most likely, i'll admit this is only logical conjecture] a higher number of high-school dropouts or college dropouts in Iraq than people holding doctorates in theoretical physics.

It REALLY pisses me off because my father's in the military, too. ****ing asshole needs to learn when to keep his goddamn mouth shut. Dumbass.
Point me to the section of his speech where he out and out stated "all those serving in Iraq are obviously uneducated trailer-trash?

I'd also like to point out the rather blatant hypocrisy in your attitude that you dislike Kerry because you percieve him to be badmouthing service-men & women, and yet turn around to berate Kerry's service in the military in the very same breath. :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Victim of the 10 Second Sound Bite?
Post by: Bobboau on October 31, 2006, 08:40:37 pm
a lot of people in my school are in the military, however there might be a reason for that (http://www.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=swic+belleville&sll=43.516689,-95.712891&sspn=30.972529,60.117188&ie=UTF8&z=13&ll=38.539304,-89.87709&spn=0.06539,0.117416&om=1)

anyway, since it's that time of year again
(http://freespace.volitionwatch.com/blackwater/bushbaby.jpg)
Title: Re: Victim of the 10 Second Sound Bite?
Post by: redmenace on October 31, 2006, 08:48:03 pm
I was more or less responding to WMC comment not so much to Kerry's.

And if you read the title I am not saying that that if you don't have an education you go to Iraq, nor am I agreeing with the interpretation and spin of the Bush Administration. Although the litteral meaning of his words do suggest that interpretation. I agree with the analysis that Military Service is what you have left as far as options if you drop out of college. I won't argue with that. I think this was a poor choice of words on his part and he really didn't tie the thoughts together well. I wish I could find a copy of the whole speach and read it.

Although after watching this, I am starting to agree with the literal statement http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOk3NWJqkyQ&NR
:lol:
Title: Re: Victim of the 10 Second Sound Bite?
Post by: redsniper on October 31, 2006, 10:19:12 pm
:lol: one of the comments: "No wonder we're losing"
Title: Re: Victim of the 10 Second Sound Bite?
Post by: Kosh on October 31, 2006, 10:25:07 pm
In so much that it is not 100% true and in some cases insulting.


It is more true than you think, and Army recruiting standards have been declining (now they have been training convicted criminals, people with pyschological issues, etc).
Title: Re: Victim of the 10 Second Sound Bite?
Post by: Unknown Target on October 31, 2006, 10:28:00 pm
For the most part, saying being uneducated will mean you will go to Iraq is untrue. Yes your choices are limited but not so limited that it is either get an education or get blown up by an IED.

It REALLY pisses me off because my father's in the military, too. ****ing asshole needs to learn when to keep his goddamn mouth shut. Dumbass.


*Reads Cobra's post*

Hmm, maybe Kerry is right :p
Try to formulate your posts with more...thought and less curse words.

Just kidding about the Kerry being right thing - although I do know what he means. Generally the best career path available to low income low education citizens is the military - which means you go to Iraq.
Title: Re: Victim of the 10 Second Sound Bite?
Post by: Kosh on November 01, 2006, 01:06:14 am
Quote
It REALLY pisses me off because my father's in the military, too. ****ing asshole needs to learn when to keep his goddamn mouth shut. Dumbass.


Both my grandfathers were in the military, one of them served in the battle of the bulge and got a silver star for bravery as well as several purple hearts, as well as my uncle..........and I still think Kerry is right.
Title: Re: Victim of the 10 Second Sound Bite?
Post by: bloated on November 01, 2006, 02:03:45 am
IMO, Kerry is just a loudmouthed dumb****. I mean really, he believes that the three purple hearts he won in the Vietnam war make him automatically eligible to run things

"Heroics of the Vietnamese war" my ass, and why the hell would Kerry have a news crew following him in his hoverboat, anyway?


1st I don't really like or care at all about Kerry but I did take the time to research his military achievements.

their was no news crew btw, eyewitness accounts of those that fought with Kerry made the reports...... anyway Kerry got 3 purple hearts, 1 bronze star and 1 silver star, he had 20 kills and didn't miss any time..... apparently his record is spotless and exemplary.

some say to good to be true and to be honest it seems a little bit much but the record is the record and pissing and moaning sour grapes that 1 or 2 out of 5 medals earned in real combat may be valid but is really kind of silly given the source of the criticism..... without a doubt given the record he's a Hero and earned the right to shoot his mouth off about the nature of war as well as in regards to those involved.

you take a 10,000 word speach (Kerry knows how to talk politician) pull 20 words out of it and instantly he's an asshole...... whether he is or isn't an asshole is irrelavent given the context of the speech is missing....  it's childish, stupid for republicans to be raising a stink about it regardless of whether it's true or not.....because without a doubt the comment lacked any intent to be offensive........ as a side note given the Republicans currently have a proven "alcoholic online pedophile" in their midst this all seems like a smokescreen.

I never really liked Kerry during the election but I don't believe for a moment Kerry had any malice driving his comment.
Title: Re: Victim of the 10 Second Sound Bite?
Post by: aldo_14 on November 01, 2006, 03:03:55 am
I wonder - could Kerry have been using self-deprecating humour with a touch of irony?  Or is that too subtle for election time?
Title: Re: Victim of the 10 Second Sound Bite?
Post by: Nix on November 01, 2006, 03:08:34 am
Look at the audience he was speaking to.  Sure, it's more inferrence, but he wasn't making a speech to his fellow democrat supporters in the usual sense.  He was targeting a group of college students.  It's as plain as day, he ovbiously took a pot-shot at the US military, while trying to give a compliment to those who will graduate from higher education.  There's a lot of conservative/republican people out there that will NOT be convinced that "the White House is twisting my comments" due to how consistent his views have been on the US Military.  Bash bash bash, all the way. 

Title: Re: Victim of the 10 Second Sound Bite?
Post by: aldo_14 on November 01, 2006, 03:21:28 am
Look at the audience he was speaking to.  Sure, it's more inferrence, but he wasn't making a speech to his fellow democrat supporters in the usual sense.  He was targeting a group of college students.  It's as plain as day, he ovbiously took a pot-shot at the US military, while trying to give a compliment to those who will graduate from higher education.  There's a lot of conservative/republican people out there that will NOT be convinced that "the White House is twisting my comments" due to how consistent his views have been on the US Military.  Bash bash bash, all the way. 

Well, let's face it, there's a bunch of hard-cores on either side of the US political spectrum who would happily twist a candidate saying "I like fluffy kittens and intend to buy one for my young daughter" into meaning "I'm a zoophiliac child molester".  There's just so little context provided to this quote it's impossible to tell what it means and how to regard it.

Still, policy-based politics, eh?
Title: Re: Victim of the 10 Second Sound Bite?
Post by: Nix on November 01, 2006, 04:00:49 am
And similar quotes from Bush, such as the "stone age" quote were given the same exact treatment?  Nah, immediately, people took offense!  It's about time republicans take offense to what this cowardly, pitiful excuse for a senator says.  You honestly cannot say that with a straight face about what the man said.  What he said, to the people he said it, it WAS in context.  I don't see how it couldnt be in any OTHER context at all, given the audience he had at the time of the quote!

Title: Re: Victim of the 10 Second Sound Bite?
Post by: Mefustae on November 01, 2006, 04:44:39 am
What exactly are you trying to say?
Title: Re: Victim of the 10 Second Sound Bite?
Post by: aldo_14 on November 01, 2006, 04:46:12 am
And similar quotes from Bush, such as the "stone age" quote were given the same exact treatment?  Nah, immediately, people took offense!  It's about time republicans take offense to what this cowardly, pitiful excuse for a senator says.  You honestly cannot say that with a straight face about what the man said.  What he said, to the people he said it, it WAS in context.  I don't see how it couldnt be in any OTHER context at all, given the audience he had at the time of the quote!

How can you say whether it was in context or not without having any context?

(What 'stone age' quote?)
Title: Re: Victim of the 10 Second Sound Bite?
Post by: bloated on November 01, 2006, 10:50:31 am
It's about time republicans take offense to what this cowardly, pitiful excuse for a senator says. actually he's a war hero who's actually served in combat and taken lives to protect American's...... this is fact and undisputable yet you just made a few of the most ill concieved comments I've seen in the thread.

it's really quite impressive that you would make such a comment and then have any hope of credibility in regards to your comments.

I'll be honest I don't really think much of John Kerry and I'm not sure he would be any different from Bush other than more polished but I certainly wouldn't be silly enough to make up lies to promote hostility towards him.

you may not like Kerry, I don't personally think much of him but given he's a war hero, he served his country in wartime, he killed for his country and was awarded numerous medals for his achievement your comments seem just a little more than absolutely worthless.
Title: Re: Victim of the 10 Second Sound Bite?
Post by: Unknown Target on November 01, 2006, 12:00:36 pm
Looks like he apologized;

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20061101/ts_nm/usa_elections_kerry_dc
Title: Re: Victim of the 10 Second Sound Bite?
Post by: aldo_14 on November 01, 2006, 12:14:23 pm
Quote
Kerry told the students that if they studied hard they could do well, but if they didn't "you get stuck in Iraq." His office said he neglected to add the punch line: "Just ask
President Bush."

Hmmm.  Methinks someone needs to learn to read an auto-cue.......

That's why I was so doubtful about this; can anyone imagine a politician saying something so utterly, well, campaign killing intentionally?
Title: Re: Victim of the 10 Second Sound Bite?
Post by: NGTM-1R on November 01, 2006, 12:41:07 pm
Perhaps...on the other hand what got said sounds very much like something you'd hear in the Vietnam era, so I dunno.
Title: Re: Victim of the 10 Second Sound Bite?
Post by: aldo_14 on November 01, 2006, 12:57:57 pm
Perhaps...on the other hand what got said sounds very much like something you'd hear in the Vietnam era, so I dunno.

Nah, it's far too stupid for that; especially given the whole fake Jane Fonda thing during the last US elections.
Title: Re: Victim of the 10 Second Sound Bite?
Post by: Janos on November 01, 2006, 01:16:10 pm
Actually, IIRC, McCain has also condemned these comments.

McCain is a party line hack who has his own gimmick of trying to be "nonpartisan" and "nonbiased".
Title: Re: Victim of the 10 Second Sound Bite?
Post by: Ford Prefect on November 01, 2006, 04:29:19 pm
Looks like he apologized;

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20061101/ts_nm/usa_elections_kerry_dc
Wow, could his vagina be any more prominent? The fact that he has to apologize for this fills me with such utter contempt for the American public-- I wish I could just slap him in the face and say, "No! BAD politician! No biscuit!"
Title: Re: Victim of the 10 Second Sound Bite?
Post by: Nix on November 01, 2006, 04:37:50 pm
It's about time republicans take offense to what this cowardly, pitiful excuse for a senator says. actually he's a war hero who's actually served in combat and taken lives to protect American's...... this is fact and undisputable yet you just made a few of the most ill concieved comments I've seen in the thread.

it's really quite impressive that you would make such a comment and then have any hope of credibility in regards to your comments.

I'll be honest I don't really think much of John Kerry and I'm not sure he would be any different from Bush other than more polished but I certainly wouldn't be silly enough to make up lies to promote hostility towards him.

you may not like Kerry, I don't personally think much of him but given he's a war hero, he served his country in wartime, he killed for his country and was awarded numerous medals for his achievement your comments seem just a little more than absolutely worthless.

I would have thought that if someone was a "war hero" that they'd actually support thier own country and military, not protest it like he has in the past, and as his stint as a senator.  Forgive me for being old-fashioned and *gasp* patriotic to my own country, but I still feel Kerry is unfit to represent, run, or have anything to do with the US Military. 

BTW, wasn't it Bush that had said "bomb Pakistan back into the stone-age"?  Yeh, sure, it might mean something different, but the REACTION was the exact same over such a controversial quote. 
Maybe everyone's mother's advice is right.  Think before you open your mouth, Kerry. 

Oh yeah, and in regards to how the joke insult was "supposed" to be put, and his apology...   ::) is all I can say.
Title: Re: Victim of the 10 Second Sound Bite?
Post by: aldo_14 on November 01, 2006, 05:35:03 pm
It's about time republicans take offense to what this cowardly, pitiful excuse for a senator says. actually he's a war hero who's actually served in combat and taken lives to protect American's...... this is fact and undisputable yet you just made a few of the most ill concieved comments I've seen in the thread.

it's really quite impressive that you would make such a comment and then have any hope of credibility in regards to your comments.

I'll be honest I don't really think much of John Kerry and I'm not sure he would be any different from Bush other than more polished but I certainly wouldn't be silly enough to make up lies to promote hostility towards him.

you may not like Kerry, I don't personally think much of him but given he's a war hero, he served his country in wartime, he killed for his country and was awarded numerous medals for his achievement your comments seem just a little more than absolutely worthless.

I would have thought that if someone was a "war hero" that they'd actually support thier own country and military, not protest it like he has in the past, and as his stint as a senator.  Forgive me for being old-fashioned and *gasp* patriotic to my own country, but I still feel Kerry is unfit to represent, run, or have anything to do with the US Military. 

BTW, wasn't it Bush that had said "bomb Pakistan back into the stone-age"?  Yeh, sure, it might mean something different, but the REACTION was the exact same over such a controversial quote.

hold on a second, surely threatening to a world leader - of a nuclear power - to declare war if they fail to co-operate is just a mite more serious than this........
Title: Re: Victim of the 10 Second Sound Bite?
Post by: Kosh on November 01, 2006, 05:56:08 pm
Quote
hold on a second, surely threatening to a world leader - of a nuclear power - to declare war if they fail to co-operate is just a mite more serious than this........


It would be if the president was a democrat.
Title: Re: Victim of the 10 Second Sound Bite?
Post by: Bobboau on November 01, 2006, 06:57:45 pm
this is were your inexperience in American politics shows :p

anyway, All I have to say about this situation is;

For ****s Sake! all you had to do was not open your mouth! WHY couldn't you have just not opened your gotamed mouth!?!?
Title: Re: Victim of the 10 Second Sound Bite?
Post by: IceFire on November 01, 2006, 07:00:22 pm
I wonder - could Kerry have been using self-deprecating humour with a touch of irony?  Or is that too subtle for election time?
Its too complex a concept for most of the political demographic.
Title: Re: Victim of the 10 Second Sound Bite?
Post by: Bobboau on November 01, 2006, 07:01:15 pm
and in addition to that, too tricky that you'd get misinterpreted.
Title: Re: Victim of the 10 Second Sound Bite?
Post by: vyper on November 01, 2006, 07:19:00 pm
I think the population being too thick to understand you, and the concept being "too tricky" and therefore liable for misinterpretation is the same thing. ;)
Title: Re: Victim of the 10 Second Sound Bite?
Post by: Mefustae on November 01, 2006, 08:11:47 pm
I would have thought that if someone was a "war hero" that they'd actually support thier own country and military, not protest it like he has in the past, and as his stint as a senator.  Forgive me for being old-fashioned and *gasp* patriotic to my own country, but I still feel Kerry is unfit to represent, run, or have anything to do with the US Military.
Oh, get your head out of your arse and lighten up. I'm betting your the type of person who would have supported the shooting of anti-war protesters during the Vietnam War, am I right?

Don't you think that maybe, just maybe, when someone says something against the war, they're actually talking about the war, and not calling all US enlisted personnel murderous, genocidal baby-killers? Maybe?

Oh yeah, and in regards to how the joke insult was "supposed" to be put, and his apology...   ::) is all I can say.
*Sigh* I thought we were all past this moronic delusion that what he said was an "insult".
Title: Re: Victim of the 10 Second Sound Bite?
Post by: Nuclear1 on November 01, 2006, 08:29:04 pm
For the most part, saying being uneducated will mean you will go to Iraq is untrue. Yes your choices are limited but not so limited that it is either get an education or get blown up by an IED.

It REALLY pisses me off because my father's in the military, too. ****ing asshole needs to learn when to keep his goddamn mouth shut. Dumbass.


*Reads Cobra's post*

Hmm, maybe Kerry is right :p
Try to formulate your posts with more...thought and less curse words.

So?  It's exactly the first thing I thought after I heard it.  Excuse him for being passionate when someone makes an insult directed at someone he cares about and obviously respects.  The Army and other brances have low recruitment standards, yes, but that's no excuse for saying that everyone who joins the military is a high-school or college dropout who has no better hope for their future than to serve in the military and go to Iraq.  Completely tasteless joke on Kerry's part.

I would have thought that if someone was a "war hero" that they'd actually support thier own country and military, not protest it like he has in the past, and as his stint as a senator.  Forgive me for being old-fashioned and *gasp* patriotic to my own country, but I still feel Kerry is unfit to represent, run, or have anything to do with the US Military.
Oh, get your head out of your arse and lighten up. I'm betting your the type of person who would have supported the shooting of anti-war protesters during the Vietnam War, am I right?

Don't you think that maybe, just maybe, when someone says something against the war, they're actually talking about the war, and not calling all US enlisted personnel murderous, genocidal baby-killers? Maybe?

Hell, I would've supported kicking some of those protestors' asses for the way many of them treated the troops coming home.  I don't care if they support the war or not, but the second someone attacks the troops as John Kerry did, it's anyone's right  to be furious.  Whether it was 'worded badly' or not, it was still insulting.  Despite the apology, I've yet to hear an explanation from Kerry as to what the joke was actually aimed at; until then, I reserve the right to view him with contempt.
Title: Re: Victim of the 10 Second Sound Bite?
Post by: Mefustae on November 01, 2006, 08:39:07 pm
And you are fully entitled to that right... just as long as you don't come off sounding like a complete prat like Nix or Cobra. :)
Title: Re: Victim of the 10 Second Sound Bite?
Post by: Nix on November 01, 2006, 08:59:48 pm
Lighten up?  If I recall, YOU'VE made blanket statements of mass murder and Bush or the US Military. Then you friggin railroad me and completely IGNORE the fact that the statement was made to a group of college students.  Then you have to protray me and others with similar opinions as idiots, promoting your own elitist anti-american views.  Why the hell would I want to lighten up over an insult to the institution that keeps this country secure?  Why would I lighten up when YOU think that I don't have the right to speak! 

People aren't alowed to get agitated and react to something that a democrat says?  It's only OK to bash Bush?  What a double-standard.
Title: Re: Victim of the 10 Second Sound Bite?
Post by: Ford Prefect on November 01, 2006, 09:09:28 pm
Nix wins. His reasoning is unstoppable.
Title: Re: Victim of the 10 Second Sound Bite?
Post by: Mefustae on November 01, 2006, 09:13:50 pm
If you have a look; I never even wrote the word "idiot" in my post. I never said you and those with your mindset couldn't speak. I never "railroaded" anyone. I certainly never even mentioned Democrats or Republicans. I won't even mention your claim of 'elitist, anti-American views'. Heck, I only berated you over the rather plain fact that you were acting all 'fanboyish' over the US Military, taking anything other than blind praise as a blatant attack to be considered treason.

Frankly, I feel that you should just lighten up and not take everything so seriously. You'll live longer. :)
Title: Re: Victim of the 10 Second Sound Bite?
Post by: Bobboau on November 01, 2006, 09:17:52 pm
interesting fact:
Even Bill O'Reilly thinks this was, at worst, a poorly thought out and/or worded joke.
Title: Re: Victim of the 10 Second Sound Bite?
Post by: Kosh on November 02, 2006, 12:19:06 am
Quote
Hell, I would've supported kicking some of those protestors' asses for the way many of them treated the troops coming home.  I don't care if they support the war or not, but the second someone attacks the troops as John Kerry did, it's anyone's right  to be furious.  Whether it was 'worded badly' or not, it was still insulting.  Despite the apology, I've yet to hear an explanation from Kerry as to what the joke was actually aimed at; until then, I reserve the right to view him with contempt.


There were several documented atrocities during that war committed by "the troops", don't forget that.
Title: Re: Victim of the 10 Second Sound Bite?
Post by: aldo_14 on November 02, 2006, 03:01:56 am
Lighten up?  If I recall, YOU'VE made blanket statements of mass murder and Bush or the US Military. Then you friggin railroad me and completely IGNORE the fact that the statement was made to a group of college students.  Then you have to protray me and others with similar opinions as idiots, promoting your own elitist anti-american views.  Why the hell would I want to lighten up over an insult to the institution that keeps this country secure?  Why would I lighten up when YOU think that I don't have the right to speak! 

People aren't alowed to get agitated and react to something that a democrat says?  It's only OK to bash Bush?  What a double-standard.


I'm tempted to invoke a 'use of capitals makes you lose' type rule, sometimes.....

:sigh:

Anyways, anyone with an iota of common sense knows this was a joke gone badly wrong.  The only 2 lessons we need to draw from this is a) Kerry ****ed up big time and needs memory/reading/common sense lessons and b) politicians should never, ever, ever do jokes.  It's a sad indictment of US politics that something like this is immediately used as a pretext for attack, rather than being accepted - and slagged - as the mistake it is and then going back to things like, ooh, politics.

(also, I'm not sure how perfectly valid criticism of Pres. Bush is 'anti american elistism'; I'd also note that the mangled soundbites of a senatorial candidate means just about **** all to the rest of the world compated to the mangled policies of the person in charge of the worlds only superpower)

Hell, I would've supported kicking some of those protestors' asses for the way many of them treated the troops coming home.  I don't care if they support the war or not, but the second someone attacks the troops as John Kerry did, it's anyone's right  to be furious.  Whether it was 'worded badly' or not, it was still insulting.  Despite the apology, I've yet to hear an explanation from Kerry as to what the joke was actually aimed at; until then, I reserve the right to view him with contempt.

Um, he did - or his office (after all, how would a politician admit to a mistake) - make a statement about it.  Been in the news.  Apparently he missed a 'Just ask President Bush.' bit at the end.
Title: Re: Victim of the 10 Second Sound Bite?
Post by: redmenace on November 02, 2006, 05:06:22 am
Quote
b) politicians should never, ever, ever do jokes.
All I have left to say about this topic is that, is that it depends on the situtation. A clever joke won Ronald Reagan the election in 1980.
Title: Re: Victim of the 10 Second Sound Bite?
Post by: aldo_14 on November 02, 2006, 07:50:39 am
Quote
b) politicians should never, ever, ever do jokes.
All I have left to say about this topic is that, is that it depends on the situtation. A clever joke won Ronald Reagan the election in 1980.

Which only strengthens my point.......
Title: Re: Victim of the 10 Second Sound Bite?
Post by: redmenace on November 02, 2006, 08:13:58 am
IIRC, it was in response to an attack as opposed to making unfunny jokes at someone else's expense. But yes jokes really have no place in civil discourse. [Coincidentally, neither does mean spiritedness or asshattery.] It fundamentally takes away and distracts from the question being asked.
Title: Re: Victim of the 10 Second Sound Bite?
Post by: Kazan on November 02, 2006, 11:46:27 am
some serious mindless kerry-bashing in this thread from the "zomg! he criticized the military! traitor!!!" pyschofreak crowd


morons

PS: my brother, who is in the military, thinks you're morons too
Title: Re: Victim of the 10 Second Sound Bite?
Post by: bloated on November 02, 2006, 12:08:58 pm
I would have thought that if someone was a "war hero" that they'd actually support thier own country and military....

it was a mistake to go to this war, it's not accomplishing anything positive yet costing trillions.....being blindly patriotic with no consience or character and asknowledging that something is wrong is stupid....  condeming a decorated war hero for at the absolute worst making a bad joke is quite a bit of hypocrisy.

I served in the military but have since left and while I don't think anyone in the thread are morons I do believe the whining about a semi truthful comment that at worst was made in bad taste really should be forgotten...... all the PC crying and whining about nothing.... trust me when I say we are made of much thicker skin and to be honest I wasn't bothered by the comment not for a moment.

maybe we should all start crying about sensitivity when we get called "grunts", "a waste of sperm", "a useless bag of skin" by the master corporal and then get a quarter and call someone who might actually give a crap.

a republican online alcoholic pedophile no one is talking about but a comment made by a democrat in any other place other than a political speech that would be funny and everyone is crying like a baby about it...... truly a nice level of hypocrisy, quite honorable and telling of character.
Title: Re: Victim of the 10 Second Sound Bite?
Post by: Kazan on November 02, 2006, 12:23:54 pm
oh gnoes!!! he criticized bush's misuse of our troops! he doesn't support the troops!!!


idiots.. you know.. criticizing how our troops are being used is, right now, much much much more "supporting the troops" than getting your jackboots on and marching in ranks with the theocons
Title: Re: Victim of the 10 Second Sound Bite?
Post by: Inquisitor on November 02, 2006, 01:14:37 pm
Funny, when I heard this I took it in the context it was supposedly intended. THe Bush administration failed to do their homework and now we are stuck in Iraq.

But I just got done reading the latest Woodward book.

The Dem's should stay on the offensive with this, apologize and explain, in EXCRUCIATING detail, including american body counts, about what exactly "stuck in Iraq" means.

But they won't. The apology will be the last of it. God help us in the midterms.
Title: Re: Victim of the 10 Second Sound Bite?
Post by: Nix on November 02, 2006, 01:26:21 pm
Apology or no apology, he's gotten enough people stirred up to get them thinking.  Yeah, they might think it's a joke or a serious insult.  It was a costly mistake on his part to have said what he said.  And yes, republicans are going to beat this issue to death, just as democrats have beaten several issues that they don't like about the republicans.  After looking at it, I'm glad he said what he said, shows him for what he really is. 
Title: Re: Victim of the 10 Second Sound Bite?
Post by: aldo_14 on November 02, 2006, 01:30:57 pm
Apology or no apology, he's gotten enough people stirred up to get them thinking.  Yeah, they might think it's a joke or a serious insult.  It was a costly mistake on his part to have said what he said.  And yes, republicans are going to beat this issue to death, just as democrats have beaten several issues that they don't like about the republicans.  After looking at it, I'm glad he said what he said, shows him for what he really is. 


But if it's a mistake, then what exactly does it show?

i'm sure Kerry isn't immune on policy, after all.... why flog this dead horse?  (yes, I know - because US politics is built around slandering the opponent rather than having policies)
Title: Re: Victim of the 10 Second Sound Bite?
Post by: Inquisitor on November 02, 2006, 02:33:46 pm
Quote
After looking at it, I'm glad he said what he said, shows him for what he really is. 

Someone who thinks the current administration is off the rails.

Lets think about what issues, and what ramifications, dems are harping on, shall we? WMD's? Sorry, WMD Program Activities? Sorry, opps, I mispoke, did I say WMD's? I meant harboring Osama. Oops, sorry, wrong context, deposing evil dictator. Oops, wrong context, mispoke again, restoring deomcracy, but certainly not nation building. Oops, sorry, how about nationbuilding? Ooops, sorry, the insurgency is on its "last legs", oops, I meant "Mission Accomplished." Oh, I meant the violence is escalating. Oops, I meant the next president will have to get us out of Iraq. Did I say a short time? I meant a long term presence of US forces in Iraq, decades maybe. This is not a Vietnam! Ok, maybe its a little like a Vietnam...

Oops, maybe I mispoke. It seems we're making it worse, not better.

Oops.

I just wish he had half these balls during the 04 elections. I wish alot of people had half these balls then. We're ****ed, and I want someone to un**** us. I am tired of burying friends. I am especially tired of burying friends when nobody seems to have a clue when its going to stop.

This Kazan moment brought to you by a pissed off American.
Title: Re: Victim of the 10 Second Sound Bite?
Post by: Nuclear1 on November 02, 2006, 03:48:32 pm
some serious mindless kerry-bashing in this thread from the "zomg! he criticized the military! traitor!!!" pyschofreak crowd


morons

PS: my brother, who is in the military, thinks you're morons too

No, that psychofreak crowd is the one up in arms (at least, the comparatively reasonable psychofreaks such as myself) that John Kerry called American troops retards and ****-ups.  Not that he's criticizing the Admistration for misusing the troops, but that he insulted the troops in general.

Before you start calling people morons, Kaz, maybe you ought to read deeper and find out that *maybe* not everybody who dislikes Kerry for that statement hates him because he's a Democrat, eh?
Title: Re: Victim of the 10 Second Sound Bite?
Post by: Inquisitor on November 02, 2006, 05:21:38 pm
Listen to the soundclip. Take that soundclip into the context of the (not so recent) strategy by the demos that says "the Bush administration did not do its homework" and is "stuck in Iraq." Its a piss poor attempt at talking points, period. Kerry also said that "anyone who can doubt my belief in the individual soldier who has not themselves put on a uniform needs to stfu" (Obviously paraphrased ;)) and "The Bush administration knows damn well what I meant and this is another smear campaign" (also paraphrased).

Then evaluate what you just said. So listen to it instead of parroting Fox news, and try to actually evaluate the information, THEN draw a conclusion.

Yes, he's guilty of a bushism, he ****ed up his speech and said something stupid. At least it hasn't gotten anyone killed.

Its' CLEAR if you have payed ANY attention to the mid term strategy, that this was a ****ed up talking point. That is idiotic.  Rather than pay attention to anything in context, you'd rather believe he's insulting the troops. But that's the new world order, misdirection and mudslinging is far more worthwhile.

While your at it, go read the Woodward book. He's only obviously liberal about every 5 pages or so, most of it is straight up facts. Might give you some real context into the argument.
Title: Re: Victim of the 10 Second Sound Bite?
Post by: Kazan on November 02, 2006, 05:48:16 pm
called American troops retards and ****-ups.


well.. considering he didn't say what you claim he said
Title: Re: Victim of the 10 Second Sound Bite?
Post by: Bobboau on November 02, 2006, 05:49:27 pm
"The terrorists never stop trying to hurt America, and neither do we."

what do the liberals do? laugh.
Title: Re: Victim of the 10 Second Sound Bite?
Post by: Kazan on November 02, 2006, 05:50:28 pm
that's

Quote
[Terrorists] never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we
Title: Re: Victim of the 10 Second Sound Bite?
Post by: Inquisitor on November 02, 2006, 05:57:30 pm
I don't ask or want people to take my word for it. I want you to use at least two functional brain cells and ACTUALLY evaluate the situation without tuning into either partys propoganda machine.

Its not hard. You manage to feed and clothe yourselfs almost daily, this is not a huge leap of logic or a difficult pattern to evaluate.

You have brains, enage them.
Title: Re: Victim of the 10 Second Sound Bite?
Post by: Bobboau on November 02, 2006, 05:57:41 pm
Kaz, Yeah, I was just pulling it out of my head, sorry.

and like I said earlier, even O'Reily could see this plain as day, I think he called all the conservitives frenzying about this "hyper-partisans" or what ever his new buzz word is.
Title: Re: Victim of the 10 Second Sound Bite?
Post by: Nuclear1 on November 02, 2006, 05:57:55 pm
Listen to the soundclip. Take that soundclip into the context of the (not so recent) strategy by the demos that says "the Bush administration did not do its homework" and is "stuck in Iraq." Its a piss poor attempt at talking points, period. Kerry also said that "anyone who can doubt my belief in the individual soldier who has not themselves put on a uniform needs to stfu" (Obviously paraphrased ;)) and "The Bush administration knows damn well what I meant and this is another smear campaign" (also paraphrased).

Then evaluate what you just said. So listen to it instead of parroting Fox news, and try to actually evaluate the information, THEN draw a conclusion.

Yes, he's guilty of a bushism, he ****ed up his speech and said something stupid. At least it hasn't gotten anyone killed.

Its' CLEAR if you have payed ANY attention to the mid term strategy, that this was a ****ed up talking point. That is idiotic.  Rather than pay attention to anything in context, you'd rather believe he's insulting the troops. But that's the new world order, misdirection and mudslinging is far more worthwhile.

While your at it, go read the Woodward book. He's only obviously liberal about every 5 pages or so, most of it is straight up facts. Might give you some real context into the argument.

Slow down, bud.  Pardon me for not nitpicking every single Democrats' speech to notice the obvious trend you've just pointed out, and then associating it to Kerry's badly-worded joke. :rolleyes: I've listened to the clip hundreds of times, trying to determine what context he was making it in, and I determined that he meant

That's the problem with Kerry--he automatically assumes everyone understands what he's on about.  The people of Middle America--y'know, the people who aren't voting for the liberal candidates--aren't able to catch on to that, there's obviously going to be some backlash.  And yes, it is shameful for the White House to be exploding this.

While we're on the topic, why don't you just get off your little self-righteous high horse?  Instead of essentially calling me a raging ultra-neocon who watches Fox News day in/day out and takes everything the Bush White House says for 100% bonafide truth and doesn't give the other side an ounce of credit, all in response to me defending myself and all the others who misconstrued Kerry's remarks from Kazan calling us all psychopathic morons, why don't you just take a couple of pills and sit down?  Knee-jerk reaction indeed.

called American troops retards and ****-ups.


well.. considering he didn't say what you claim he said

Yes, it is.  In context, he said that whoever drops out of high school or college gets stuck in Iraq, so that would imply some ounce of stupidity, no?  Yes, I used some colorful wording, but isn't essentially the same thing?
Title: Re: Victim of the 10 Second Sound Bite?
Post by: Inquisitor on November 02, 2006, 06:41:44 pm
Its not nitpicking, it's a HUGE chunk of the bloody platform. So you can't actually be bothered to understand your opposition?

That's stupid.

And you're still on about what you WANT to believe he meant. That's also pretty stupid.

I won't be trod on anymore by this uninformed, right wing stupidity. I am patriotic, I care, and anyone who says otherwise will get it in the face from me. Read, understand, listen, pay attention. Or stay out of my way.

If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem, and all *I* ever hear from you right wing whack jobs is soundbites, and praise for killing american soldiers. Stay the course. 105 dead in October. I keep hearing how we "have a plan" yet, I keep seeing the body count rise. We haven't had a plan since day one, and the people responsible for that would prefer we not pay attention to that detail. Its ****ed, and its not getting better. And all you want to do is belittle a man who fought for the country and wants to make it better because he ****ed up a speech.

Mission accomplished indeed. How many soldiers have died on  the ground since that little mis-step?

I am done burying friends, and I want my country back.

And what he said was "If you don't do your homework, you will get stuck in Iraq." Read what I wrote again. You seem to have missed it the first time.
Title: Re: Victim of the 10 Second Sound Bite?
Post by: Nuclear1 on November 02, 2006, 07:01:24 pm
I won't be trod on anymore by this uninformed, right wing stupidity. I am patriotic, I care, and anyone who says otherwise will get it in the face from me. Read, understand, listen, pay attention. Or stay out of my way.

If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem, and all *I* ever hear from you right wing whack jobs is soundbites, and praise for killing american soldiers. Stay the course. 105 dead in October. I keep hearing how we "have a plan" yet, I keep seeing the body count rise. We haven't had a plan since day one, and the people responsible for that would prefer we not pay attention to that detail. Its ****ed, and its not getting better. And all you want to do is belittle a man who fought for the country and wants to make it better because he ****ed up a speech.

There you go again, labelling me as a far-right nut job when I detest what Bush has done with the war just as much as anyone else.  Believe it or not, I know what it's like to have friends and people you went to high school with go off and never come back.  And yes, I'm pissed off just as much that the media is making this big a ****ing deal about this, when nothing in this election is about Kerry anyway. 

Now, will you quit acting like you and I stand on completely opposite sides of the political spectrum and realize that I care for this country just as much as you?  For God's sake, my faith in this country is why I joined the military, and I'm thoroughly disgusted by how politicians want to parade soldiers and the military around as some sort of shield against criticism and scrutiny. 

As I said before, my earlier reaction expressed I thought when I first read it.  I don't believe it what's he meant anymore, after reading from other sources and connecting some dots, and I thoroughly apologize for any hint that I still thought the joke was aimed at the soldiers.
Title: Re: Victim of the 10 Second Sound Bite?
Post by: Inquisitor on November 02, 2006, 07:37:47 pm
That, is a reasonable response. Apology accepted and one offered in return.

Help me make it an informed decision, not one built on fear and distrust.
Title: Re: Victim of the 10 Second Sound Bite?
Post by: Kazan on November 03, 2006, 10:29:57 am
As I said before, my earlier reaction expressed I thought when I first read it.  I don't believe it what's he meant anymore, after reading from other sources and connecting some dots, and I thoroughly apologize for any hint that I still thought the joke was aimed at the soldiers.

cheers then!
Title: Re: Victim of the 10 Second Sound Bite?
Post by: Bobboau on November 03, 2006, 07:16:12 pm
oh, well...
it's already been forgotten (http://www.gazette.com/display.php?id=1326038&secid=1)
Title: Re: Victim of the 10 Second Sound Bite?
Post by: Crazy_Ivan80 on November 07, 2006, 03:00:55 am
mhh, I think it wold be better if the Brits sent a viceroy to the region. They clearly can't govern themselves in a polite fashion :p