Hard Light Productions Forums

Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The Modding Workshop => Topic started by: Iron Wolf on November 04, 2006, 10:44:18 pm

Title: Improving the Aeolus
Post by: Iron Wolf on November 04, 2006, 10:44:18 pm
Not sure if this goes here... it involves changing the weapons load-out on the Aeolus cruiser, but it's done using the FRED system of changing weapons (select ship> weapons).

Any who, I've came up with the idea of improving the Aeolus cruiser by replacing those utterly useless SGreens on it and replacing the "Terran Huge Turrets" with fighter weapons (eg. Maxim, Kayser, Subach)

The current version I have is armed with two SVas Beam cannons, and Maxim cannons in the laser turrets. However, seeing the effectiveness of slashing beams, I’ve been wondering if I should use the Terslash beams or the VSlash beams instead. Also, the maxim cannons work well in ship vs. ship combat, disabling turrets and causing a fair amount of damage... but I'm not sure how they fair in the anti-fighter department.

Thoughts? Should I go with slashers and create a mini-Sobek? Should I remove the maxims and put something else there?
Title: Re: Improving the Aeolus
Post by: Mars on November 05, 2006, 12:12:43 am
If you want it to be balanced near where the deimos is, I'd say that TerSlashers and Prometheus S turrets would be good.
Title: Re: Improving the Aeolus
Post by: Iron Wolf on November 05, 2006, 12:41:27 am
If you want it to be balanced near where the deimos is, I'd say that TerSlashers and Prometheus S turrets would be good.

Hmm, but do you think Terslashers are "small enough" to fit onto an aeolus? I mean, sure I can say they are, but I kept it to a Vasudan small beam to keep in with "size"
Title: Re: Improving the Aeolus
Post by: Mars on November 05, 2006, 12:42:36 am
Honestly I'd say that svas's are too good, maybe make a smaller looking terslash
Title: Re: Improving the Aeolus
Post by: Iron Wolf on November 05, 2006, 12:50:32 am
Honestly I'd say that svas's are too good, maybe make a smaller looking terslash


I'm not talking the size of the beam, but the physical weapon intself. Of coruse, I belive the Fenris has a TerSlash, so this Improved Aeolus should be able to mount one (or two) as well...

What about the SVas's being tood good?
Title: Re: Improving the Aeolus
Post by: Mars on November 05, 2006, 01:01:23 am
No, the TerSlash, though it has more damage than the svas, is far less accurate.

The Fenris has an LTerSlash (worst beam in the game IMO)

I think your best bet is to increase the fireing rate of the SGreen to that it's more on par (sustained damage / second) with the svas and sred
Title: Re: Improving the Aeolus
Post by: Iron Wolf on November 05, 2006, 01:05:05 am
No, the TerSlash, though it has more damage than the svas, is far less accurate.

The Fenris has an LTerSlash (worst beam in the game IMO)

I think your best bet is to increase the fireing rate of the SGreen to that it's more on par (sustained damage / second) with the svas and sred

So, why not go with just a SVas... I can see the vasudans pitching in on this post-capella, as long as they got some. ( seeing as how the Vasudans lack any sort of powerful attack cruiser).

And how would I increase the fire rate of the SGreen?
Title: Re: Improving the Aeolus
Post by: Mars on November 05, 2006, 01:37:04 am
You would add a file called sgreenrate-wep.tbm to your data/tables folder and add:
#Primary Weapons:
$Name: SGreen
+nocreate
$Fire Wait: (I'm not sure what the exact value should be... that requires time and energy go to the wiki and look up the fs2 weapons comparison table and figure out how to get the
#End

This could be wrong, we shall see.
Title: Re: Improving the Aeolus
Post by: Snail on November 05, 2006, 05:03:28 am
By the way, try using a combo of Prometheus S, Flak Guns and Morning Stars!! :drevil:

As you fly in to attack, those Morning Stars will push you back as the Prometheus S's and Flak Guns blow your hull away. If there's space also keep those AAAf guns. That will be hell for any fighter or bomber to attack. Everybody underestimates the power of Morning Stars, especially when there are a lot of them.

As for the SGreen, I believe the SVas is better than the TerSlash in a way, as they are far more accurate and TerSlash is terrible against smaller targets, and often misses.
Title: Re: Improving the Aeolus
Post by: asyikarea51 on November 05, 2006, 05:49:40 am
What about the Kayer?

Or is the Kayser not considered because it's an "experimental" weapon and stuff?
Title: Re: Improving the Aeolus
Post by: Mad Bomber on November 05, 2006, 05:58:31 am
Kaysers are expensive. Besides, Prom-S has longer range by 600m or so.
Title: Re: Improving the Aeolus
Post by: Snail on November 05, 2006, 07:32:12 am
Perhaps using a combo of Morning Stars, Kaysers and Maxims would suffice. ;)

You know, it is possible to make even the Watchdog deadly by placing about fifteen of them, giving ten Morning Stars, and give five Maxims. That would easily be a devastating defensive perimiter. One of the only ways to get through would be to use Trebs or other long-range weapons, but the Maxims are LR as well so you've gotta get something better. I've tried that and it took about two waves of six Hercules' to get through the defense and kill the cargo.
Title: Re: Improving the Aeolus
Post by: Iron Wolf on November 05, 2006, 11:12:18 am
By the way, try using a combo of Prometheus S, Flak Guns and Morning Stars!! :drevil:

As you fly in to attack, those Morning Stars will push you back as the Prometheus S's and Flak Guns blow your hull away. If there's space also keep those AAAf guns. That will be hell for any fighter or bomber to attack. Everybody underestimates the power of Morning Stars, especially when there are a lot of them.

That's what i've been trying, but it doesn't work as well because I’m putting the Morning star and Prometheus-S in turrets that were originally meant for the "blob" lasers. This gives only one weapon covering the top arc, and the bottom another. Should I sacrifice some flak guns?
Title: Re: Improving the Aeolus
Post by: Taristin on November 05, 2006, 12:10:38 pm
Ive always thought the Aeolus was excellent for what it was; an escort/fighter-killing cruiser. It's not a corvette, so why should it be armed like/as powerfully one?
Title: Re: Improving the Aeolus
Post by: Iron Wolf on November 05, 2006, 12:26:01 pm
Ive always thought the Aeolus was excellent for what it was; an escort/fighter-killing cruiser. It's not a corvette, so why should it be armed like/as powerfully one?

With that idea, perhaps we should just replace the beam cannons with Anti-fighter beams?

Putting two small vasudan beams will not suddenly turn it into a corvette. We gave up on the slashy beams, and now I'm figureing out the best configuration for anti-fighter work.
Title: Re: Improving the Aeolus
Post by: Taristin on November 05, 2006, 12:46:10 pm
No, replacing them with anti-fighter beams would make the vessel absolutely defenseless to larger vessels. My comment was aimed at the comment above about making the Aeolus into a mini-Sobek. The Aeolus wasn't meant to be a cap-ship killer, IMO. Perhaps the beams could have been strengthened a wee bit, but there's a horrible tendency in this community to make a single vessel that is the Alpha 1 of the fleet, able to destroy any target it faces... Not saying thats whats happening here, but I fear it may slip into that later >..>;
Title: Re: Improving the Aeolus
Post by: Iron Wolf on November 05, 2006, 02:38:08 pm
No, replacing them with anti-fighter beams would make the vessel absolutely defenseless to larger vessels. My comment was aimed at the comment above about making the Aeolus into a mini-Sobek. The Aeolus wasn't meant to be a cap-ship killer, IMO. Perhaps the beams could have been strengthened a wee bit, but there's a horrible tendency in this community to make a single vessel that is the Alpha 1 of the fleet, able to destroy any target it faces... Not saying thats whats happening here, but I fear it may slip into that later >..>;

No worry about that happening... I was just asking if anyone though you could fit TerSlash or VSlash beams on a ship as small as an aeolus.
Title: Re: Improving the Aeolus
Post by: Iron Wolf on November 12, 2006, 09:04:50 pm
 :bump:

Bumping this because I didn't get ideas on how to work the anti-fighter defences (in terms of laser cannons).

Prometheus S's?
Maxims?
Morning stars?

Any combo of the above?
Title: Re: Improving the Aeolus
Post by: Scooby_Doo on November 13, 2006, 01:52:13 am
Put tachyon turret on it  :drevil: :eek2: :nervous: :P
Title: Re: Improving the Aeolus
Post by: Iron Wolf on November 13, 2006, 05:52:06 pm
Put tachyon turret on it  :drevil: :eek2: :nervous: :P

a wha?
Title: Re: Improving the Aeolus
Post by: Taristin on November 13, 2006, 08:42:20 pm
Morning stars are a real *****. They may not kill you, but they will throw your ass so far off course you'll be unable to attack your targets.
Title: Re: Improving the Aeolus
Post by: Scooby_Doo on November 13, 2006, 09:03:45 pm
Opps that should be plural (turrets)... just think of them as fast, nasty rapid fire versions of kaysers  :D
Title: Re: Improving the Aeolus
Post by: Qwer on November 14, 2006, 06:57:47 am
Aeolus is very expensive cruiser, GTVA command (BTW well known for lack of intelligence as you may see during main FS2 campagin :P ) made wrong decision with this cruiser. Cruisers are too small to be universal, you get crap Leviathan which has got too weak AC defense to help with battles with other capships and too weak AF defence to defend itself against enemy fighter or Aeolus, which is good, but too expensive to find itself in navy and therefore unneeded. They must be specialised. Another foolishness was not-merging Terran and Vasudan technology. Anyway if you want better Aeolus, give him config 2XTerSlash+4XHeavyFlak+6XMS (if you consider merging Terran and Vasudan technology, give him VSlashes) or 2XUltraAAAf+4XHeavyFlak+6XMS.

BTW Slash beams doesn't have as much power as Stream ones, but they've got one advantage: their nature allows them to effectivly disarm enemy capships from turrets.
Title: Re: Improving the Aeolus
Post by: Titan on November 14, 2006, 09:39:32 am
im pretty sure that in the tech room it says that the Aeolus class was just kinda old and what not..... it also says 12 or 14 were ever built....... i count 17 in freespace 2 (you get 3 just in the first couple of SOC missions....   :P)
Title: Re: Improving the Aeolus
Post by: Mathwiz6 on November 14, 2006, 03:40:07 pm
I think some morning stars should be included...


Especially with bomb shooting 0.o

Example of kinetic weaps, the second INFR1 mission... anyone tried that? This station is covered in Mace guns, and it is inane.

Though I think the Aeolus is pretty good as it is. It owns all fighters, and can survive some slightly larger battles.

"Look upon its armament, ye fighter pilots, and despair. The Aeolus is the second most effective cruiser in the game, thanks to its array of flak guns and AAA beams that make attacking it a daunting prospect. The Aeolus will make mincemeat out of an unprepared fighter wing, and going one-on-one with it at short range is a very effective method of commiting suicide. It's anti-capital capability is good for a cruiser with two SGreens, however it is still incapable of taking on anything larger than itself with any hope of survival. Its anti-capital firepower is theoretically 1/11 that of the Deimos."

It's worse than... a lilith... and 24 were produced.
Title: Re: Improving the Aeolus
Post by: Taristin on November 14, 2006, 04:09:07 pm
im pretty sure that in the tech room it says that the Aeolus class was just kinda old and what not..... it also says 12 or 14 were ever built....... i count 17 in freespace 2 (you get 3 just in the first couple of SOC missions....   :P)

Only 24 were produced. Most of them were destroyed.
Title: Re: Improving the Aeolus
Post by: Iron Wolf on November 14, 2006, 08:53:01 pm
Aeolus is very expensive cruiser (snip)

Huh? where do you get that from?

Anyway if you want better Aeolus, give him config 2XTerSlash+4XHeavyFlak+6XMS (if you consider merging Terran and Vasudan technology, give him VSlashes) or 2XUltraAAAf+4XHeavyFlak+6XMS.


Hmm, but I thought we decided a couple pages back that Slasher Beams were too "big" to fit on a ship that size.

So, final thought on Anti-fighter defence: Normal loadout in terms of flack and andti-fighter beams, but replace the Huge Terran Turrets with Morning stars.
Title: Re: Improving the Aeolus
Post by: nubbles526 on November 15, 2006, 12:33:20 pm
I don't know what you really mean though... Cuz' someone in Hades alright an uploaded customized Aeuous. It is still an Aeolus, but just have these two arms added... and they fire beams... Rapid Big Friendly Beam Green (RapidBFGreen)

http://hades-combine.com/web/index.php?ind=downloads&op=entry_view&iden=84
Title: Re: Improving the Aeolus
Post by: Snail on November 15, 2006, 02:48:20 pm
What you mean the GTC Boreas? Ah, yes, that thing kicks Sath ass... Unrealistic and I would not use it in any ca,paign (unless it's set in the far future) but it was really fun.
Title: Re: Improving the Aeolus
Post by: Titan on November 15, 2006, 04:16:33 pm
anything when you whoop those ****er's asses is good.... wholesome, like band of brothers.  :D

my dad's friend said something like that on our last hunting trip.... talking about the deer from hell.

(my dad 'n' him taking pot shots at it, unloading all their ammo, after putting 50 rounds in it the deer jumps off a cliff and falls 30 feet into a creek.)
Title: Re: Improving the Aeolus
Post by: Iron Wolf on November 15, 2006, 06:25:19 pm
I don't know what you really mean though... Cuz' someone in Hades alright an uploaded customized Aeuous. It is still an Aeolus, but just have these two arms added... and they fire beams... Rapid Big Friendly Beam Green (RapidBFGreen)


Trying to keep my improved aeolus somewhat belivable.
Title: Re: Improving the Aeolus
Post by: nubbles526 on November 16, 2006, 03:40:20 am
What you mean the GTC Boreas? Ah, yes, that thing kicks Sath ass... Unrealistic and I would not use it in any ca,paign (unless it's set in the far future) but it was really fun.

Just change the RapidBFGreen to SGreen. Thats what I do
Title: Re: Improving the Aeolus
Post by: Qwer on November 25, 2006, 06:08:30 am
Quote
Hmm, but I thought we decided a couple pages back that Slasher Beams were too "big" to fit on a ship that size.

Not really, beam phases are determined mainly by power given from reactor, beam cannon size only determines possible phases for ship. Aeolus *could* have TerSlashes if you'd low its AF defences (but probably the most effective cruisers is AF cruiser with 2XHeavyFlak and 8XAAAh and AC cruiser with 2XVSlashes and 6XMS, both of them are cheaper than Aeolus and can be mass-produced, pair of them and bomber wing could own Deimos with 3-wing fighter escort).

Also little offtopic about dream fleet. AF defences can be split into Fighter Supression (MS) and Fighter Killer (AAA, Flaks). Specialised Anti-Cap ships and Carriers should have only small number of Fighter Supression cannons (they only need to defend themselves from bombs and enemy fighters, escort capships and fighters finishes them off), universal capships like Deimos should have both of them, while specialised AF ships Fighter Killer only.
Title: Re: Improving the Aeolus
Post by: nubbles526 on November 25, 2006, 06:39:11 am
Quote
Hmm, but I thought we decided a couple pages back that Slasher Beams were too "big" to fit on a ship that size.

Not really, beam phases are determined mainly by power given from reactor, beam cannon size only determines possible phases for ship. Aeolus *could* have TerSlashes if you'd low its AF defences (but probably the most effective cruisers is AF cruiser with 2XHeavyFlak and 8XAAAh and AC cruiser with 2XVSlashes and 6XMS, both of them are cheaper than Aeolus and can be mass-produced, pair of them and bomber wing could own Deimos with 3-wing fighter escort).

Also little offtopic about dream fleet. AF defences can be split into Fighter Supression (MS) and Fighter Killer (AAA, Flaks). Specialised Anti-Cap ships and Carriers should have only small number of Fighter Supression cannons (they only need to defend themselves from bombs and enemy fighters, escort capships and fighters finishes them off), universal capships like Deimos should have both of them, while specialised AF ships Fighter Killer only.

Wow... you do a lot of studies about freespace eh?
Title: Re: Improving the Aeolus
Post by: Qwer on November 25, 2006, 10:19:41 am
Nubbles - not really, we had serious discussion about future GTVA technologies, fleet and developement on Polish Freespace Forum for a year, topic has already got 42 pages and is second biggest topic on forum (exept offtopic one which has 97 :P ). We came to very intresting conclusions in long discussion beetwen more than 15 people also pinpointing command's errors made from first Shivan arrival to times before IIGW. Prehaps I should create one on HLP. ;)
Title: Re: Improving the Aeolus
Post by: Fade Rathnik on November 25, 2006, 12:39:45 pm
"...going one-on-one with it at short range is a very effective method of committing suicide..."



 :lol: could not be put in a better way  :nod:
Title: Re: Improving the Aeolus
Post by: Scooby_Doo on November 25, 2006, 05:22:07 pm
"...going one-on-one with it at short range is a very effective method of committing suicide..."



 :lol: could not be put in a better way  :nod:

That would describe the tachyon turrets quite well  :D
Title: Re: Improving the Aeolus
Post by: DarkShadow- on November 27, 2006, 04:55:43 am
You would add a file called sgreenrate-wep.tbm to your data/tables folder and add:...

Wouldn't do it that way, just work on the Weapons.tbl itself, far easier.

For the beams, as Mars said, just change the SGreens fire rate, damage, whatever so it fits. Just search your weapons table for sgreen, you should understand what those values are for (if not, just check the wiki). For the Anti-Fighter-Weapons... how about some new stuff? E.g. for my campaign, the Capital ships AA-defenses are some kind of machinegun with a little Mace-effect (gave them a little FOF though, without the inaccuracy they were too powerful).

Or replace the turrets (primaries) with some kind of homing missile (secondaries). Use your fantasy  ;)

Edit: The weapons table is in the fs2_root.vp (or something similar ^^). If you don't know how to extract it, just tell me, I can upload one so you can simply download it.
Title: Re: Improving the Aeolus
Post by: nubbles526 on November 27, 2006, 11:05:11 am
The weapons table is in the fs2_root.vp (or something similar ^^). If you don't know how to extract it, just tell me, I can upload one so you can simply download it.

Just download Heiko Hermann's VP view. Hey, I'm a modder, at least I know the basics.
Title: Re: Improving the Aeolus
Post by: wtf_cl0vvn on November 28, 2006, 09:47:47 pm
If you melded terran/vasudan tech, couldnt you give it the SVas?

i think thats supposed to be a far better beam cannon...
Title: Re: Improving the Aeolus
Post by: Mars on November 29, 2006, 01:16:43 am
It is, but it just isn't GREEN  :hopping:
Title: Re: Improving the Aeolus
Post by: lefkos on December 10, 2006, 02:41:59 pm
SGreens? useless?
well make them stronger faster reload time longer lifetime  usefull SGreens!  :D  ;)  :p
and they have the coolest beam sound
my aeolus(From a long time ago) was a flak ship try only flak guns its really usefull to me
the 2 front cannons long range etc ;)
Title: Re: Improving the Aeolus
Post by: Snail on December 10, 2006, 03:05:06 pm
I made one which was the double barrelled were armed with Morning Star and Kayser, the thingies on the sides were Flak and Tornado (missile) and the last two (the frontal ones) were AAAf, but the two main beam cannons were still SGreen. Impossible to kill in a fighter, and actually can give it to a Fenris or Aten (those Kaysers are more powerful than you think), it can kill a Leviathan, and it does very well against Cains. Rakshasas die (but damage the Aeolus quite severly), the Lilith annhialates it with the LRed. The Moloch kills it quite easily (usually damaged to around 75%), Sobek kills it, Deimos kills it. It was pretty cool.
Title: Re: Improving the Aeolus
Post by: AdmiralRalwood on December 12, 2006, 06:24:00 pm
(those Kaysers are more powerful than you think)
Try it with Maxim cannons.