Hard Light Productions Forums
Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The Modding Workshop => Topic started by: Titan on November 19, 2006, 01:24:25 pm
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The topic pretty much says it. I'm thinking of making ships (not custom made, just using ships that came with the game) that can be used in a fighter bomber role. By that, i mean a wing of these ships should be able to destroy a corvette, and still take on waves of fighters all by themself.
Though i said retail ships only, any ships are welcome. I'm currently testing with the Artemis D.H. class, but im planning to test all bomber types because i tested briefly with this idea about a year ago, and it worked semi OK... but not the best. Then again, i was using wings of Ursa's............. ;)
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The idea seems good, although when you have bombers that are as good as fighters, then there will be no reason to use fighters.... :D well, maybe they could be used only for super-elite pilots...
Good bombers are the ancient bombers in inferno, although they have no shields (but i'm not sure you're interested in ancient ships)
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Personally, I think that combining the two roles, while possibly being more convenient, is a bit of a balancing problem...
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The Athena was pretty good in both roles...
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I am slowly evolving a test mission.... it kinda goes like this right now. Wing of attacking fighter bombers (to be known as FBs from now on) jumps in, attacks a shivan convoy of 3 asmoedous freighters (i know its spelled wrong!!!) thats guarded by a Rakshasa cruiser. im gonna put in the fighters soon.
Right now i've almost found the ideal loadout for the Artemis D.H..... it consist of a Prometheus S cannon for a primary, and two banks of Tornados and one bank of Cyclops... i experimented with inferno missiles, but though they tore apart Cains they didn't do much against anything else except freighters, plus the AI doesn't have the sense to use them against anything other that fighters and bombers. but this loadout isn't final because i haven't added fighters or bombers.
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The Athena was pretty good in both roles...
Nah, it was decent in both, but looked cool. It wasnt powerful enough to kill anything higher than a cruiser, on its own, and it wasnt maneuverable enough to be great in a dogfight.
It was a jack of both trades, master at neither.
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OK, i think i have it. i added some stuff to the mission, listen to this.
i put in a faustaus that would come in once the Rakshasa and the convoy were destroyed. then i had waves of 4 shivan fighters come in at ten second intervals, in this order:
Basilisk
Aeshema
Manticore
Mara
Astaroth
Dragon
the basilisk i wasn' ready for, and they brought the faustaus down the 26% hull integrity. i was able tolead my wingmen through everything up to the astaroths. before the astaroths no shivan ship hurt the faustaus (except the basilisk) 2 of the 4 astaroths got through and brought the faustaus down to 6%. then the Dragons came; only one got through and it fired of a salvo from his primary and secondary weapons seconds before i brought it down. the salvo destroyed the faustaus, but i say the configuration worked out good.
For me the ideal loadout for the Artemis D.H. was Prometheus S cannon, with 2 banks of tornadoes and one bank of cyclops. but i understand this configuration isn't for everyone, and also it was only tailored for these circumstances. now moving on to test the Ursa...... :drevil:
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Make a tactical fighter. Low primaries, can carry a bunch AA missiles and then maybe two - four big bombs. Uses high [afterburner] speed to reach and hit the target but cannot linger around in AA fire or it's toast. Like an Ulysses with bombs.
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That's a myrmidon, then.
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anyway, think this is going good. i like that idea for the mymdon with bombs, but i wanna do something like this, once i start modding. Can carry most primarys, has 2 missle banks and 1 bomb bank that can carry 1 o 2 cyclops. It would have killer engines, and a lotto juice for afterburners. But it would have about the same shield and hull strengths of a Loki, or maybe even that Tigris thing... (that was cool)
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i like that idea for the mymdon with bombs,
It already can. 2 Helios.
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Make a tactical fighter. Low primaries, can carry a bunch AA missiles and then maybe two - four big bombs. Uses high [afterburner] speed to reach and hit the target but cannot linger around in AA fire or it's toast. Like an Ulysses with bombs.
Haha you've read my mind, I just finished a model with exactly that design specs in mind. It's basically a fighter sized ship with a bomb bay bolted on. One primary bank with 3 firing points and another small secondary bank for Tornados/Harpoons allow it to punch a hole into the defending fighter screen. High speed and large AB capacity and below-average manoeuvrability make it suitable for quick hit&run attacks.
Basically an Athena that actually can carry a few bombs. I know the Myrmidon can too, but I hate its visual appearance ;)
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Ooh! Sounds good!
Any word on when it'd be available for download? (must add to MOD collection)
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Good question ... LOD0 is done and UV-mapped. Now I'm going through several texturing tutorials looking for tricks to make a decent map. The lower LODsneed to be done and some POFing also, but I hope to have it done soon-ish.
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The Athena was pretty good in both roles...
Nah, it was decent in both, but looked cool. It wasnt powerful enough to kill anything higher than a cruiser, on its own, and it wasnt maneuverable enough to be great in a dogfight.
It was a jack of both trades, master at neither.
It was the best. And mind you, no fighter/bomber controlled by the AI can take out a cruiser alone. They are simply too stupid....Well, maby a Fenris.
I took out Destroyers in the Athena, so what does that tell you?..Right, nothing.
My personal oppinion is that it's manuverable enough tto be used in dogfights. In fact, in FS1, I used it all the time in dogfights (avengers + fury missiles = teh kill) and in crippling capships.
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Speaking of FS1, I didn't really use the other ships. Went through the campaign with the Apollo most of the time, and the Ursa in the last mission.
:lol:, I'm also reusing the retail (MediaVPs mostly) stuff in what I'm doing. Custom models are always few and far between IMO... :sigh:
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OK, getting back on topic!
I'm thinking maybe like just boosting the Artemis D.H. top speed and sacrificing a little bit of sheilding then making it so that its......... maybe you should just use an Ares stuffed with tornados and trebuchets.... that could work.. ;)
Edit: Personally i'm always good with just taking a Herc mrk.2 out with a double loadout of prometheus s cannons and one bank of tornados and one bank of trebuchets............ for me it is THE ship and loadout for tackling anything.......... ;)
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I took out Destroyers in the Athena, so what does that tell you?
That you modify your tbl's. :p
Now don't get me wrong. I loved the Athena. It's my favourite FS1 ship. But to say that it's the best at both roles is a horrible lie.
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That's a myrmidon, then.
Purpose built! This is a magic word that beats everything!
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That you modify your tbl's. :p
Now don't get me wrong. I loved the Athena. It's my favourite FS1 ship. But to say that it's the best at both roles is a horrible lie.
To be fair, you COULD take out a destroyer that way in FS1 given enough time and ordinance.
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That you modify your tbl's. :p
Now don't get me wrong. I loved the Athena. It's my favourite FS1 ship. But to say that it's the best at both roles is a horrible lie.
To be fair, you COULD take out a destroyer that way in FS1 given enough time and ordinance.
yes, but if you modify the tbl it's EASIER!!! :pimp:
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i like that idea for the mymdon with bombs,
It already can. 2 Helios.
4 (1;1;2)
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I stand corrected. I was only thinking about the last bay.
Also, yeah, in FS you could kill a destroyer in any vessel, as there wasn't damage limits like FS2 had, right?
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Oh yeah, isn't there something like this in FS2?:
When a cap. ship gets below 15%, your weps. do x% of their normal damage?
and Fighters cannot kill any cap. ships except cruisers?
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Yeah, the big_damage flag essentially stops any non-Huge weapons (basically anything smaller than a Trebuchet) from dealing any damage to a corvette, or larger vessel, once it's gotten below 10% hull.
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Which is crap, in my mind, as with enough time [any] ship ought to be able to rip enough holes in a corvette/destroyer/whatever+++ (well... mebbe not [juggernaut] class, but up to Destroyer at least) to render it dead, core their way through to the reactor(s) and watch it go critical... but maybe that's just me.
--side note: pleased to see my Tigris getting positive mention, but it's barely a dogfighter, and certainly not anti-cap in any sense of the word (although it might get a few subsystems on a poorly-defended cruiser).
More to the topic, perhaps mixing a Maxim/Kayser set on a medium/fast (65m/s+) fighter, throw in Trebuchets and some Helios bombs, and you're set to rip almost anything to shreds. Trebuchets are good for nailing caps from a distance, but I like 'em as first-strike antifighter missiles m'self. Nothing'll throw a wing into disarray quite like bouncing the point-man off his wingmates and leaving 'em with 5% integrity left... XD *evil laughter*
Not sure what fighter could mix all that together effectively, though. Artemis only has one gunbank slot, yes?
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Which is crap, in my mind, as with enough time [any] ship ought to be able to rip enough holes in a corvette/destroyer/whatever+++ (well... mebbe not [juggernaut] class, but up to Destroyer at least) to render it dead, core their way through to the reactor(s) and watch it go critical... but maybe that's just me.
--side note: pleased to see my Tigris getting positive mention, but it's barely a dogfighter, and certainly not anti-cap in any sense of the word (although it might get a few subsystems on a poorly-defended cruiser).
More to the topic, perhaps mixing a Maxim/Kayser set on a medium/fast (65m/s+) fighter, throw in Trebuchets and some Helios bombs, and you're set to rip almost anything to shreds. Trebuchets are good for nailing caps from a distance, but I like 'em as first-strike antifighter missiles m'self. Nothing'll throw a wing into disarray quite like bouncing the point-man off his wingmates and leaving 'em with 5% integrity left... XD *evil laughter*
Not sure what fighter could mix all that together effectively, though. Artemis only has one gunbank slot, yes?
yeah, it only has one gun slot. I think the Ares might do good in that role..... :drevil:
Oh yeah, isn't there something like this in FS2?:
When a cap. ship gets below 15%, your weps. do x% of their normal damage?
and Fighters cannot kill any cap. ships except cruisers?
Yeah, the big_damage flag essentially stops any non-Huge weapons (basically anything smaller than a Trebuchet) from dealing any damage to a corvette, or larger vessel, once it's gotten below 10% hull.
SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO......... thats why i couldn't destroy Nagada outpost in the last templar mission in FS2multiplayer... all i had was a wing of hercs and a wing of ulysees..... that fenris was blow apart earlier.........
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The topic pretty much says it. I'm thinking of making ships (not custom made, just using ships that came with the game) that can be used in a fighter bomber role. By that, i mean a wing of these ships should be able to destroy a corvette, and still take on waves of fighters all by themself.
Though i said retail ships only, any ships are welcome. I'm currently testing with the Artemis D.H. class, but im planning to test all bomber types because i tested briefly with this idea about a year ago, and it worked semi OK... but not the best. Then again, i was using wings of Ursa's............. ;)
Thats called retexturing and modding...
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Why don´t you put a fighter and a bomer togheter to get a fighter bomer?
such as GTF perseus and GTB ursa...
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How about researching the capabilities and performance or real aircraft built for the fighter/bomber mission profile? One thing FS sorely lacks in any version is improving the manuverability as the missile loadout gets used up. Fewer missiles/bombs = less mass, less inertia to resist whatever the ships use to roll, pitch and yaw. Basic stuff any military small aircraft pilot knows. :)
With a real world FB, it's expected that should they be attacked by enemy fighters before reaching their bomb target, the bombs can be dropped- which drastically improves the planes' manuverability, acceleration and top speed.
The other big part of the FB concept is they can make it to target, drop bombs, then fight their own way back instead of what went on all through WW2 where big, slow heavy bombers had to depend on an escort of nimble and fast fighters. An FB flight could also inclued a few escorts of the same plane with more missiles in place of the bomb load, making the flight an even tougher target coming back from the mision than going in.
Ferinstance, a flight of four F-16's. Two with a standard fighter loadout and two with bombs. All will have the two wingtip mounted missiles as well as the 20mm Vulcan cannon while the two riding escort will have several missiles instead of the bombs. Once the bombs are delivered, those two planes are equal to the escorts in speed and manuverability. (Actually a bit more until the escorts fire their under-wing missiles!)
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Actually, I think I once managed to take down a Sobek with Tempests and whatever primaries I was using at the time. I sat there pushing both fire buttons with time compression turned all the way up to 64x and shift-r'ed every few seconds.
Still took a hell of a long time to take down though, even with wingmen.
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:drevil: