Hard Light Productions Forums
Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The Modding Workshop => Topic started by: Kieve on November 20, 2006, 06:53:22 am
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I've been getting closer and closer to completion with the Tigris, but there's one thing it's missing that I don't quite know how to implement.
Thruster flames.
Now, I've got the glows down pretty well - a dummy $Engine object, with two smaller dummies linked to it in Max... they provide the glow points just fine. But when it comes to the thruster flames, I'm lost. I've examined several FS2 models and found that they [appear] to be separate sub-objects models, named thrusterXX. But when exporting, they don't show up. I figure I'm just getting the hiearchy wrong.
Can anyone tell me how to link/use the thrusterXX submodels to make them work? I've already got the new thruster.ani ready to use...
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You really want to use the modelled thrusterflames? not the glow type effects?
In any case this is probably due to mediavps. As the current mediavps disable the modelled thrusterflames and replace them with thrusterglows.
EDIT: Namely mv_effects-sdf.tbm in the mv_effects.vp.
You can get the modelled FreeSpace 1 type effects back using -sdf.tbm file (modular species_defs.tbl).
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I'm just a little confused, just to clarify: You mean the flame in the OLD models?
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I was using the old models as an example, but truth be told I'm not sure what I'm looking for - I saw "thruster01/02" on the [old] Ulysees model, and figured that was how it was done.
The glow-effects would be alright, I suppose, although I did go through a bit of trouble making the green thruster04.ani I wanted to use - more importantly I guess, I just need to know how to make an engine flare visible.
Right now, I have two round glows where they ought to be, but no sense of flare or "output" as it were. Just blobs of light.
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You really want to use the modelled thrusterflames? not the glow type effects?
I use both simply because the cut-out when you rotate away from the glows is too odd. You see these nice big engine glows, then move a bit forward and the whole thing cuts out, not just the obscured part.
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Put the attached file in your \data\tables folder, change the file extension to .tbm (stupid forum won't let me attach tbms)
[attachment deleted by admin]
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(Thanks Turey, Colonel)
(http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f321/Kieve/WIP-%20Robofish/VGF_Tigris14.jpg)
[edit: hate when I confuse IMG and URL tags]
Um... a little difficult with the glow-flames. The modeled ones work beautifully, so I'll be keeping those, but these glow effects don't seem to be functioning quite right...
Any ideas on how to fix?
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Man.. the tigris looks awesome...... i love it, but in MY OPINION it would looks better if the body was shaped fr like a lambda class shuttle from star wars........ ;)
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Yah, I know what you mean... those were cool. ;) Maybe when I get around to doing transports. Thanks anyhow.
[Right now, I'm working on a small cruiser, 'bout Fenris sized - the KVC Grimalkin]
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any pics? ;)
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I dont understand what you're asking and what you did with that model.
Which are the modelled and which are the software plumes, and what did you do with/to them, and what is your ptoblem?
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The modelled thruster flames have to be done a certain way, otherwise the game won't display them. There was a thread on here a few years ago on this very subject.
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Yay! More Freespace Fhysics! ;)
I tried to find images or diagrams of how rocket exhausts behave in vacuum, but failed. :P What they do is spread out W I D E due to there not being any air pressure to constrain them. This lowers the engines efficiency quite a bit.
Rocket nozzles (real life ones!) are optimized to produce their maximum thrust at a specific altitude range where the ambient pressure is slightly less than or equal to the exhaust gas pressure at the nozzle outlet. This keeps the exhaust gasses constrained to a nearly parallel stream coming out of the nozzle, providing the most acceleration force.
If the ambient pressure is higher than the exhaust gas pressure at the nozzle outlet, the stream will be squeezed down to a stream smaller than the nozzle outlet. this causes a backpressure, seriously hurting efficiency. If the ambient pressure is way too high for the nozzle design, the exhaust stream can be squeezed so much that it seperates from the nozzle before the outlet.
That can cause shockwaves, vibrations, combustion instability and other problems that can lead to engine damage/failure.
Sooo, given how the rest of Freespace Fhysics stays so close to actual physics, I'm not expecting a model to be sporting thruster plumes anything like how they'd actually be in a vacuum any time soon. ;)
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Back on topic... for whatever reason, the "EngGlow" mediavps-style flames appear in both their correct position and when throttled up, out the left side of the craft. See the red-framed area in that screenie. Spread or focused, either sounds cool - but thruster exhaust should [not] be leaking out the port missile rack...
Of course, maybe it would help if I clarified what I did:
-I'm using Max 5, POF Exporter, and PCS for data-setting
-The physical, modeled thruster flames are linked as child object to detail-0 hull
--They work fine. Tested throttling up and down, afterburners, etc.
-The engine glow points are two dummy objects linked to the $engines sybsystem dummy
--They create two thruster glow [point] lights - same idea as the wingtip and tail lights - but do not spawn the feathery mediavps thruster flames
--They [do] change brightness when throttling up / afterburning.
-After PM'ing Scooby about this, he told me I should try two "light" objects, named EngGlowXX-XX, etc and link [them] to detail-0 as well.
--Created two free-target lights, EngGlow0-00 and EngGlow0-01 and linked them to detail-0
---PARTIALLY worked - the feathery mediavps flames appear, but in addition to their correct position out the back, another set of flames becomes visible inside the ship's hull (when throttled up).
And that wierd leakage is what has me puzzled and wanting a fix. Should I have tossed the $engine child-dummies first? Is there a specific type of light object I should be using - or should I have stuck with a dummy box instead? Should I have linked it to detail-0, or $engine?
... ^.^ hope that clears things up.
[edited for tone - apologies if I sounded rude. No offense was meant to anyone.]
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I don't mean to bump, but my progress with the KVF Tigris is halted until I can get this annoying little quirk ironed out... and if it crops up again with the Grimalkin, well...
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post a screen shot of the model in modelview in wire frame rendering mode with the thruster point display enabled
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I haven't managed to export engine glows correctly from Max. That's why I just convert the geometry and hierarchy from Max now and set up the additional POF data in PCS. Just remember to switch the Y and Z coordinates when using coordinates from Max in PCS and you're fine.
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(http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f321/Kieve/WIP-%20Robofish/VGF_Tigris15.jpg)
I tossed in a solid-model too so it'd be clearer where the thrusters go.
Looks like they're in the right place, pointing the correct way... so... ?.?
Col. - Just to clarify, theoretically if I scrub the "light" and "$engine" objects entirely and set up the engine system in PCS, adding thrusters, etc, it should work?
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Yeah, or just uncheck the options for engine in the exporter dialogue.
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was there suposed to be a glow point there?
do the erronius thruster thingys seem to be effected by throtel?
(thinking they might actualy be a type 1 glowpoint, not engine glows)
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-They are affected by throttle - the "error" image up there was taken throttled up. At lower speeds, it doesn't seem to show.
-I didn't add any specific "glow" points, but I did follow the "pof-example" included in the exporter, which showed two "dummy" objects linked to a third dummy named $engine ($engine-0? something like that).
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don't supose you'd be willing to post the pof?
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Done. Lemme know if you need the .tbm too.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Well, this topic has reached the end of its usefulness.
In testing with the new KVF Panther, I ignored all subsystems, engine glows, etc and exported just the detail-0 by itself...
Added an engine in PCS so I could maneuver, and everything worked fine. Looks like I should just scrap the whole engine subsys deal in Max and let PCS handle it from now on.