Hard Light Productions Forums
General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: Col. Fishguts on November 21, 2006, 05:21:39 am
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Well, I needed some :v: models in 3ds Max to scale a model of mine to the existing fighters. So I converted a bunch of models to 3ds, but then I got curious and things went slightly overboard and I ended up making various size comparison renders.
Ans since I already made them, i could as well upload them. So there you go, everything to scale:
(http://n.ethz.ch/student/ebuerli/download/FSrenders/Fighters_side.jpg)
(http://n.ethz.ch/student/ebuerli/download/FSrenders/Fighters_Fenris_side.jpg)
and a couple more: Top-down (http://n.ethz.ch/student/ebuerli/download/FSrenders/Fighters_topdown.jpg), same with Fenris (http://n.ethz.ch/student/ebuerli/download/FSrenders/Fighters_Fenris_topdown.jpg), iso view (http://n.ethz.ch/student/ebuerli/download/FSrenders/Fighters_Fenris_iso.jpg)
And just because the HTL Fenris is so cool: My new desktop wallpaper (http://n.ethz.ch/student/ebuerli/download/FSrenders/Fenris_max1.png)
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Just to add something to this. Sj Sathanas to scale with the Empire State Building and CN Tower amongst others.
(http://homepage.ntlworld.com/karajorma/Misc-Pics/Sathanas-Scale1.jpg)
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You should mkae these the right size, then sens some of them into here...
http://www.merzo.net/
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Where do you think I got my pic from? :D
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I didnt refresh before posting....
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Makes me wonder how many Saths would it take to gun down the SSD... is the SSD from Star Wars or something?
Or maybe the Shivans would just send in their Gigas with an insta-kill subspace cannon... :nervous:
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Or maybe the Shivans would just send in their Gigas with an insta-kill subspace cannon... :nervous:
where's the fun, then?
they would hire somebody called Alpha One, ask him to disable turrets, shield systems... and then they could send a wing of mara to finish it!:D
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You should mkae these the right size, then sens some of them into here...
http://www.merzo.net/
Oh I know that page, but I think this guy's already swamped in submissions.
From his site.
We have received a huge number of very impressive submissions. Now, we need to work on processing them and getting them posted. Unfortunately, we will not be able to accept any more submissions until we've reviewed the ones we already have sitting idle.
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It's always amused me that the Sathanas could probably simply run over most of the uber-mega-super-duper ships from other sci-fi. Not the Super Star Destroyer, but it's probably close to half the SSD's mass, so that would be one heck of a traffic accident.
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In Warhammer 40,000 a Sathanas would be fairly small.
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It's about half the size of the Retribution, so I wouldn't go that far. Certainly it wouldn't like running into your standard Gothic, Slaughter, or Kill Kroozer, but the Sathanas would be the one that would live through it. It probably has more total mass than the Void Stalker would.
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Just to add something to this. Sj Sathanas to scale with the Empire State Building and CN Tower amongst others.
(http://homepage.ntlworld.com/karajorma/Misc-Pics/Sathanas-Scale1.jpg)
Can you do that with the Colossus? I like to look at the windows. ;)
Oh, and while your at it, try it with the Gigas (or Dante, Icanus, Apocalypse...). :lol:
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They don't have the Colossus on that site. I could do it in Truespace if I had the time but sadly I don't.
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scary :jaw: :jaw: :jaw: :jaw: :jaw: :jaw: :jaw: :jaw: :shaking: :shaking: :shaking: :shaking: :shaking: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek::nervous: :nervous: :nervous: :nervous: :nervous: :nervous: :nervous:
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"This is your captain speaking, please stop smoking and bring your tables and seat backs into the upright position"
(http://n.ethz.ch/student/ebuerli/download/FSrenders/747_takeoff.jpg)
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http://home.comcast.net/~sorceror25/starships.gif (http://home.comcast.net/~sorceror25/starships.gif)
Doesn't have any freespace ships, but you can get an idea. The Sathanas is slightly smaller than a Bab5 Explorer class, and a Fenris between Star Trek Defiant and Galaxy-class.
Yes, the SSD is that badass.
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is it just me, or is there a point at which ships get ridiculous...
i mean...the ursa...its more than half a football field in length.
ok well, so i guess its a bomber so thats ok...but still!
and then when you get into capships, and the OMGWTFBBQ size of the ones in inferno...
30km SSJ Gargant, anyone?
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contrary to the topic title, "Size matters not." In space, since there's an abundance of room, you don't really need to have small ships. Think about it. If you had a fighter 10 football fields long, you could have it warp in 10 klicks away from a target, have it shoot uber-huge lasers, and launch uber-huge missiles. The singular reason we have to have aerodynamic planes in air is to increase speed. The more aerodynamic a plane is, there is less air friction it has to fight, it gets more lift, and it's more maneuverable. In space, you don't have air friction to fight, and you don't have to think about gravity constantly tugging you down into a death spiral. Bigger ships in space just make sense......sorta. ;)
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I am liking FreeSpace's sizes =3
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is it just me, or is there a point at which ships get ridiculous...
Yeah... about the size of the Colossus
i mean...the ursa...its more than half a football field in length.
It's a bomber...
ok well, so i guess its a bomber so thats ok...but still!
See?
and then when you get into capships, and the OMGWTFBBQ size of the ones in inferno...
That's purely up to the modellers on the Inferno team. And a lot of people seem to just eat up the "OMGWTFBBQ" size, despite that larger ships completely ruin gameplay. Cant really do a whole lot to a 6Km ship, let alone a 30, while you're in your ursa, sekhmat, boan, etc...
30km SSJ Gargant, anyone?
Yeah...... see above.
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For some more shear size and realivity....
A correctly scaled 6 foot tall human, just replace the ship with a similar sized fs2 ship.
bomber's 40meters long
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v356/Shodan_AI/Paktothfang1.jpg)
a 600meter long destroyer
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v356/Shodan_AI/form16.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v356/Shodan_AI/form19.jpg)
theres a person in the this pic
can you imagine what 6km would look like?
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"This is your captain speaking, please stop smoking and bring your tables and seat backs into the upright position"
That really brings home just how big the Orion actually is :)
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And it kinda kills the credibility of the mission where the NTD Repulse rams the GTVA Colossus...
Seriously, they would've chewed into each other until the engine blocks would've hit each other. Of course it could be explained by ultra-stiff and strong structures, but still... meh. ;)
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Well it was only going at ~15m/s :D
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"Evacuate forward decks 500-800! Brace for impa-" *Tonk* "Phew, almost spilled my coffee."
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when I played that mission the Repulse never reached the Collie.... was pawned before he rammed it.
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Well it was only going at ~15m/s :D
Yeah... and don't we all know how easy it is to stop a medium-sized mountain top moving at 15 m/s.
Oh well, we've known since beginning that also Volition didn't worry about gravity or anything inertial... ;7 Even though they gave the ships some pseudo-inertial table values to handle some aspects like rotation. :rolleyes:
@TrashMan:
Yeah, it didn't actually hit the Colossus on this end either... :nervous:
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Hey Fishguts those are really good :yes:.
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If the Colossus's hull can take a 2 Gigaton warhead with only minimal damage... a collision with a 2Km destroyer shouldn't be too much worse.
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(http://n.ethz.ch/student/ebuerli/download/FSrenders/Capships.png)
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Force = Mass x Acceleration
The destroyer would do a lot of damage, especially if it was warping in from subspace.
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@Mars - The Repulse has more momentum than a 2 Gt warhead, and in low-speed collisions the momentum is in key role when you're guesstimating what happens. Armour plating of FS2 warships is, IMO, primarily designed to withstand energy weapons such as beams and blobs of different kind. The warhead's destructive effect is based on high energy yield, meaning that they basically rise the temperature of the armour until it softens, and that causes damage as well as the shockwaves running through the hull. However, the hull and armour are designed to be as repulsive to this kind of beating as possible.
When a 300 million metric ton spacecraft (my minimum guesstimate of an Orion's mass, does anyone have more accurate knowledge?) hits something, even at 15 m/s, it really can't be stopped very easily.
AS I said, what would really happen if a two-km destroyer rammed a larger ship is that they would carve their way into each other until the momentum of both ships would be equally distributed to each ship (means that the wreckages would stay joined to each other and continue moving at same speed). Unless they have specially reinforced noses.
In which case the rear end of the ship would continue to move forward when the nose stopped. In Orion's case, the engine section wold start crumbling forwards. In Colossus' case, also the protrusions below the main hull would snap from their attachements and start floating forward, or at least bend forward significantly...
It would be an interesting scene to simulate, actually. :nervous:
@spartan - F=ma, yes, but it has little to do with this.
It's more interesting to compare momentums, kinetic energy yields and also impulses. Impulse is the change of momentum, and it tells us the average force needed to create mentioned change of momentum in certain period of time. To elaborate,
F = I/dt
where I is change of momentum and dt is change of time - in this case, the time that the collision takes to happen.
Ah well, I'm getting too serious again. :p
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You also have to take into account "soft spots" on the ship. Some parts of the hull would be weaker than others for different reasons. If you rammed the bridge (assuming that the bridge is stupidly put close to the outer edge of the ship), there would be serious collateral damage...
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30K ship, bah. What about the 150K background ship?
On the other hand, after a certain amount of difficulty in killing, the player does feel rather helpless. And disabling in some cases feels rather dumb.
Anyway, the Tsunami is... 5GT bomb, and takes out about a quarter of the hull of a Fenris. Fenris has 1/125 or so of the health of the Colossus.
2.5 teraton bomb... To kill something 6 Km across...
Either the Colossus is tough, or Earth is really weak, because I don't think it can take 100,000 big H-bombs.
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You really can't compare TNT yield vs ingame hitpoints vs ship length. Double the TNT equivalent doesn't produce a fireball twice as big, for starters.
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The Tsunami has no TNT measurement tied to it... although using E=MC2 and a conversion figure I don't have you could figure out the TNT yield of a 500 ton mass converting to energy.
The Harbinger was 2 GT
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Size matters are all a matter of size.
Pointless post.
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Stop that! You're a mod, you're supposed to be setting a good example. :p
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The harbinger was 5GT, not 2GT....
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Oops... so basically it destroys a hemisphere rather than a continent
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Think about it. If you had a fighter 10 football fields long, you could have it warp in 10 klicks away from a target, have it shoot uber-huge lasers, and launch uber-huge missiles.
How much do you think that fighter costs? And how bad do you think the designers will feel when it is destroyed by 30 bombers that didn't even cost a quarter of the price? :P
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Course it depends how much it costs to produce and speed of production and how well it performs... if it can outrun and outmavouer a tiny fighter....
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Pretty sure there was a cannon value...
http://volition-inc.com/fs/weaponry3.cfm
Doh, Harbingers, not Tsunami :( Point :)
Double the area, quadruple the payload...
It's not the ship length, it's how tough the ship is! Nuking the world, and nuking the Colossus...
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Nukes have a different effect in space.
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True... lessened EM effect, null shockwave...
Though I seem to remember someone destroying an Earth model...
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Yeah, in space the hull flexing from a nuke impact ought to destroy anything. :p
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when I played that mission the Repulse never reached the Collie.... was pawned before he rammed it.
One time, the collie didn't destroy the Repulse in time, so the Repulse rammed the Collie, except it was just clipping. :( no real collision.
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is the repulse even set to do the whole kamikaze thing? sorta like the HoL's Mauler in FS1...
doesn't seem like it is...
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Though I seem to remember someone destroying an Earth model...
Yeah, but didn't he use ~+K to do that? :p
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WOW.....I am astounded in you guys, nice job, considering the title I would suspect one off post. :p
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Though I seem to remember someone destroying an Earth model...
Yeah, but didn't he use ~+K to do that? :p
No, [~] + [Alt] + [Shift] + [K]. Normal [~] + K does something like 0.001 damage to it.
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I have never gotten most of the codes to work, by the way. I can get the pirate ship to appear, and the Vasudan mainhall fishes, but none of the codes that include pressing ~ (tilde)... No luck. :blah:
Where is the tilde key located in FS2 keyboard layout anyway? It's definitely not where it is in Finnish layout, I suppose... :nervous:
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Upper left-hand corner, under the Escape key. But who knows what's with your keyboard.
Also, did you activate the cheat codes by typing in "www.freespace2.com" until a message pops up saying "Cheats activated"? Take another look at wherever you got your cheat codes and make sure you're following the right procedure.
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Yeah, the "cheats activated" message pops up all right. It's definitely a keyboard layout issue.
The button below Esc in my keyboard layout is §-sign... shift function is ½. :nervous: To produce tilde, I must press AltGr and the button on the left side of Enter, in the uppermost letter row, and then press space to make the tilde appear. Thanks for information.
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"This is your captain speaking, please stop smoking and bring your tables and seat backs into the upright position"
(http://n.ethz.ch/student/ebuerli/download/FSrenders/747_takeoff.jpg)
LOL! Imagin the president taking off from the Galatea! Wow! Thanks for that...I wonder how mankind can even make the orion.
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"This is your captain speaking, please stop smoking and bring your tables and seat backs into the upright position"
(http://n.ethz.ch/student/ebuerli/download/FSrenders/747_takeoff.jpg)
LOL! Imagin the president taking off from the Galatea! Wow! Thanks for that...I wonder how mankind can even make the orion.
If you control about 15 star systems, im SURE there are at least a few uninhabited planets you can strip bare for metals.
that, and asteroids...
so the orion would probably take...what, a small asteroid?
im sure there are enough to go around. and if worst comes to worst you can buy from the vasudans.
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"This is your captain speaking, please stop smoking and bring your tables and seat backs into the upright position"
(http://n.ethz.ch/student/ebuerli/download/FSrenders/747_takeoff.jpg)
LOL! Imagin the president taking off from the Galatea! Wow! Thanks for that...I wonder how mankind can even make the orion.
If you control about 15 star systems, im SURE there are at least a few uninhabited planets you can strip bare for metals.
that, and asteroids...
so the orion would probably take...what, a small asteroid?
im sure there are enough to go around. and if worst comes to worst you can buy from the vasudans.
The raw material is certainly there, you could certainly build many, many Orions just from our asteroid belt (assuming they don't require some rare element), the issue here is the ability to extract these materials from various environments and the ability to construct Orions, and the only near-canon reference seems to suggest that takes a while.
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In the FS1 command briefs, it gives you some information on fleet strategy. It refers to four different Orion destroyers (The Galatea, Bastion, Intrepid and Minnow IIRC). Since it only talks about the movements of these four, I assume that during the Great War the GTA had only that many- which implies that Orions are VERY expensive if a entire star race can only build four of them. The only alternate explanation could be that the Shivans/Vasudans destroyed a lot of them (whittled an initial force of, say, 12, down to 4). ST also refers to a GTI destroyer, the Krios, though, so there still could be more out there.
Either way, I get the impression that GTVA production capacity went up a lot between FS1 and FS2 because in FS2 you have all kinds of huge stuff (Collossus and 10km long Aquitaines) even though Earth's industrial capacity, which the game and FSWiki refers to as being considerable, is gone. Maybe the Vasudans helped the GTA a lot in building up their fleet.
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The problem with that is your initial assumption that there are only 4 Orions.
Just cause they only mention 4 doesn't mean that's all there are.
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The four were probably all of the destroyers from a specific battle group.
Does anyone know what the makeup of a battle group is? I always thought it was something like 3 or 4 destroyers, 4 corvettes and 5 or so cruisers...
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Nah, there were many more than 4 Orions it's just that Command likes the "need-to-know basis". They won't tell you about each and every ship's movement, just the things you should know (the battlegroup theory fits really nice here).
Besides, I don't think GTVA built any new Orions during the reconstruction period, involving themselves more in the Hecate, Deimos, and Hatshepsut. They were more eager on the high tech things.
perhaps they built Hecates, because they were easier/cheaper/faster to built ?? That would explain a lot. Or perhaps it was just another of Command's "great" ideas :ick:
Ahh, and where have you found a 10km Hecate ?! That thing would pwn a Sathanas :P
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What, for that matter, is the organizational structure of the fleet? They always refer to the Vasudan Battlegroups and the Terran Fleets, but never vasudan fleets...but terran battlegroups, and GTVA battlegroups, and the colossus=battlegroup....
its very confusing...
Every fleet has a flagship, and probably one destroyer per battlegroup/flotilla/[subunit].....dont know how many that is though.
What fleet does the GTD Carthage belong to?
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I wouldn't put too much thought in this, since I'm pretty sure :v: didn't either.
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I'm assuming there were fewer Orions than systems, since the FS1 story material mentions that a short-term stay by an Orion is greeted with happiness, but a long-term stay is greeted with fear. On the other hand, there are ten canon FS1 destroyers, not four:
GTD Galatea
GTD Bastion
GTD Intrepid
GTD Minnow
GTD Amadeus
GTD Krios
GTD Myrmidon
GTD
GTD Soyakaze
[unnamed FS2 intro Orion]
Then again, "Reaching the Zenith" mentions that the Shivans have confined the GTA to nine core Terran systems, so perhaps :v: decided there are additional populated systems not shown on the official map.
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The destroyer in the intro was the Legion, IIRC.
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"GTD Legion" sounds familiar, but all I can remember about the intro was :v: confirming it wasn't the Galatea.
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The destroyer in the intro was the Legion, IIRC.
That's fanon. Fanon accepted as correct even by :v: themselves, but fanon nonetheless. :)
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The destroyer in the intro was the Legion, IIRC.
That's fanon. Fanon accepted as correct even by :v: themselves, but fanon nonetheless. :)
assuming Fanon is not a misspelling, what is it?
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The destroyer in the intro was the Legion, IIRC.
That's fanon. Fanon accepted as correct even by :v: themselves, but fanon nonetheless. :)
assuming Fanon is not a misspelling, what is it?
Something accepted as correct by the fandom, but not canon. "Fan canon."
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I'm assuming there were fewer Orions than systems, since the FS1 story material mentions that a short-term stay by an Orion is greeted with happiness, but a long-term stay is greeted with fear. On the other hand, there are ten canon FS1 destroyers, not four:
GTD Galatea
GTD Bastion
GTD Intrepid
GTD Minnow
GTD Amadeus
GTD Krios
GTD Myrmidon
GTD
GTD Soyakaze
[unnamed FS2 intro Orion]
Then again, "Reaching the Zenith" mentions that the Shivans have confined the GTA to nine core Terran systems, so perhaps :v: decided there are additional populated systems not shown on the official map.
I recall them saying that there were "dozens of systems" off of a specific system on the node map, I think in FS1 they were thinking of more systems but by FS2 they dropped the idea.
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Nah, there were many more than 4 Orions it's just that Command likes the "need-to-know basis". They won't tell you about each and every ship's movement, just the things you should know (the battlegroup theory fits really nice here).
Besides, I don't think GTVA built any new Orions during the reconstruction period, involving themselves more in the Hecate, Deimos, and Hatshepsut. They were more eager on the high tech things.
perhaps they built Hecates, because they were easier/cheaper/faster to built ?? That would explain a lot. Or perhaps it was just another of Command's "great" ideas :ick:
Ahh, and where have you found a 10km Hecate ?! That thing would pwn a Sathanas :P
From the way things go in FreeSpace, it seems that the Orions were designed to largely be battleships with fighter capacity. Hecates seem to be more of a battlegroup HQ or carrier type role with the corvettes providing most of the offensive punch of the battlegroup while the Hecate hangs back.
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Does anyone here still remember the FS1 command briefs? It treats those four destroyers like they're the only ones in existence. When it talks about fleet movements, it only talks about those four, even though it's refering to every system from Deneb to Ross 128. I'm sure if there were other destroyers, they would be mentioned. At the start of the war, I'm guessing they had six-
"After the 3rd Fleet lost the GTD Amadeus in the Vega system, the GTA and the Parliament of Vasuda have both declared open states of war against the Shivan forces." (command brief, sm 1-08a "The Hammer and the Anvil", where you escort the shield prototypes)
The Amadeus was destroyed, and the Krios was a GTI destroyer that only showed up in Silent Threat. The Myrmidon, Legion, and Soyakaze are not mentioned in FS1 as far as I know- they're FS2. So our list becomes:
GTD Bastion
GTD Galatea
GTD Intrepid
GTD Minnow
GTD Krios (possible)
Considering how much detail Command gives about their destroyers, I don't think that they would omit a few. I'm pretty sure that the GTA started the Great War off with five or six destroyers and ended with four or five. If a whole star empire can only produce that many destroyers, the must be REALLY expensive. Now consider the cost of a Colossus or Sathanas...
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Good to see this thread is about ship sizes :)) ! But seriously it is stupid to believe that there were only 4 or 5 Orions in the whole GTVA. They must of built more of them in the reconstruction era since both the Hecate and the Hatsheapsut came later during the reconstruction era. So in the mean time just build what you can till new classes are available. Also I imagine that once the newwer classes of destroyers came into production the shipyards to produce them already existed. So who knows maibe they could of built as many as 12 destroyers every 3 years or 1 or 20 depending on the number of shipyards capable of building them and on the money they were willing to invest in building a large powerfull fleet really fast.
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The Amadeus was destroyed, and the Krios was a GTI destroyer that only showed up in Silent Threat. The Myrmidon, Legion, and Soyakaze are not mentioned in FS1 as far as I know- they're FS2.
The Soyakaze and Myrmidon are FS1, specifically Silent Threat. To assume that any of the Silent Threat destroyers were not in active service during the events of FS1 is not wise, because given the basic size and complexity of the Orion they must have been at least engaged in a shakedown cruise when the Shivans arrived...and the emergency would have pushed them into active service almost without doubt.
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They probably were manufactured during the Great War. There seemed to have been a major spike in GTA military production right after the Shivan invasion. I mean, during the FS1 campaign you get all kinds of brand-new weapons and ships during the space of just three months of war, so I have the impression that the GTA uses its "surge capacity" during every Shivan invasion to build a whole bunch of new ships and takes a break during peacetime. There's evidence of this if you consider how many ships were developed during 30 years of the Reconstruction period compared to how many new stuff is introduced in the FS1 and 2 campaigns.
Either way, during the Great War itself, I think that there were only 5 destroyers at the beginning, with the Krios, etc. being put into service just as the conflict ended. Apparently what [V] is trying to say is that you can build the ships very quickly with future technology, you just need the raw materials to do it. But I think that if a destroyer was taking part in the fighting, it would be mentioned in the command briefs.
Either-
1. The Soyakuze, Myrmidon and Krios were launched after the Great War was over using the GTA's "surge capacity", in time for ST, or
2. They were badly damaged during the T-V war and under repair, they didn't have enough crew or fighters to go into battle, they were undergoing some kind of refitting, etc.
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1. The Soyakuze, Myrmidon and Krios were launched after the Great War was over using the GTA's "surge capacity", in time for ST, or
2. They were badly damaged during the T-V war and under repair, they didn't have enough crew or fighters to go into battle, they were undergoing some kind of refitting, etc.
Why only those two? Why is it impossible for them to have been in service outside of the players scope of knowledge? Why do you think the player has to know everything that goes on in a game or a story?
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I agree with Taristin, here. What you're saying makes about as much sense as saying: "Vasudan Battlegroups 1-12 don't exist because Vasudan Battlegroup 13 is the only one mentioned in FS2." :wtf:
By the time of FS2, at least, it seems that there's one Terran Fleet or Vasudan Battlegroup per two or three systems. Each fleet/battlegroup has a destroyer as a flagship, and it's probably safe to assume that they each have a destroyer as backup (given the number of Terran destroyers that show up in FS2, and the number of fleets mentioned). Since the GTVA rules over about 40 systems by that point, that's, I estimate: at least 26 destroyers, plus whichever ones were assigned to the Collossus Fleet.
Further evidence against your argument: both the GTD Bastion and the GTD Nereid were called Great War vintage destoryers. The Nereid was not mentioned in FS1/ST.
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Not to mention the fact that we wouldn't get updated on the movements of ships which were just sitting still guarding key systems cause there wouldn't be much to say. Just simply "GTD whatever is still holding station in Sol"
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What's the maximum rank you can reach in one playthrough? Lieutenant Commander maybe? Even as a squadron leader, you wouldn't be informed about such things in any case.
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Rank doesn't affect de/briefs... Does it?
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No, but theroetically, as an admiral, you should know everything, as opposed to a civilian.
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No, but theroetically, as an admiral, you should know everything, as opposed to a civilian.
As an admiral you shouldn't be flying in a combat wing.
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As a captain however you could (probably would) be. And would be briefed in on these things. Regardless the "single playthrough" cavet was added to demonstrate the possiblities that Volition would have built the game to. Yes, you can make Admiral, but not by playing single-player once, which is what the game was designed for.
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That's what the classification levels are for. Remember when you did the SOC loop? You were specificially instructed not to share any information you had gathered. Same when the remains of Kappa wing returned from the Nebula, and when command let Bosch escape. There was a lot going on that you weren't told. Same thing with troops movements, it'd be like telling a grunt fighting in the front line about the cardboard army used to trick the German army for the D-Day landings, you'd might be risking everything for something that serves no purpose.
Whether [V] had any idea what was going on or whether that was merely plot device, is something only they can answer.
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"The following is classified level Rho. Unauthorized access is punishable under the GTVA Security Act, Deneb Convention, Section 21-3-5."
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I think there are a LOT more destroyers than that canon list even...
what about the Goliath, and the Eisenhower, mentioned in the tech room?
and if all the FS2 orions are retrofitted Great War ships, then what about the Carthage and all the NTF destroyers, like the Vasa, the Uhuru, the Repulse, the Vindicator...etc.
I quote Cmdr. Snipes
"...but you can rest assured that the results will be classified far beyond your level of clearance. They always are."
Even a ranking SOC operative (im guessing snipes isnt just a lowlevel spy) doesnt know very much.
and besides, letting you know more than what you had to know means [V] would have to come up with a lot more explanations for all the cryptic goings on in the game.
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Even a ranking SOC operative (im guessing snipes isnt just a lowlevel spy)
Well he is Lieutenant Commander Snipes.
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Lieutenant Commander isn't that high of a rank.
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It's high enough to command a squadron
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<predictable and essential lt cmdr data comment>
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It's high enough to command a squadron
But not very high on the need-to-know-basis list.
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But not very high on the need-to-know-basis list.
qft
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It's high enough to command a squadron
Squadron ought to be run by a Commander.
I think they make an exception for Alpha 1 given his proven ability.
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It's high enough to command a squadron
Squadron ought to be run by a Commander.
I think they make an exception for Alpha 1 given his proven ability.
if you run right you can get command of a squadron as an LT. I think
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It's high enough to command a squadron
Squadron ought to be run by a Commander.
I think they make an exception for Alpha 1 given his proven ability.
if you run right you can get command of a squadron as an LT. I think
I am Lieutenant Loukakis, squadron leader of the 53rd Hammerheads.
I'm Lieutenant Samsa, squadron leader.
Lieutenant Commander Cordova here. Welcome to the 242nd Suicide Kings, pilot.
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I was thinking your character, but that level of memorization of something not monty python, princess bride, star trek, or star wars not only impresses, but sligtly frightens me
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The Sathanas is around 5km right? If so, Yeesh thats big (mass wise). I had never put my ships next to FS2 ships until now...
(http://img391.imageshack.us/img391/7990/hugewm7.jpg)
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Just short of 6km actually. So your scale might be slightly off.
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The Sath is 5978 meters to be exact.
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... :wtf:
:confused:
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Wait, the Math Wiz didn't know the number of meters the Sathanas was? But....you're supposed to be......the Math Wiz.....spartan thinks that the admins need to change his title
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lol. Well then my sizes are off scale then. That means the Sath will be as long as the others, but still bigger and still stronger :rolleyes:. Sliced heavy cruisers anyone?
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It's high enough to command a squadron
Squadron ought to be run by a Commander.
I think they make an exception for Alpha 1 given his proven ability.
if you run right you can get command of a squadron as an LT. I think
I am Lieutenant Loukakis, squadron leader of the 53rd Hammerheads.
I'm Lieutenant Samsa, squadron leader.
Lieutenant Commander Cordova here. Welcome to the 242nd Suicide Kings, pilot.
I thought Loukakis was Capt. Loukakis. :confused:
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I thought Loukakis was Capt. Loukakis. :confused:
He was both, actually. :) He got promoted after you went through training. ;)
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From Lt. to Captain??? what'd he do, take out a wing of Seraphims with ML-16s?
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No... that was Alpha 1
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Nah. Alpha 1 took out the Lucy with the ML16s.
My guess about Loukakis being captain and all, and the ranks...
Since, the 242nd, the 53rd, the 64th, and the 107th (and later the 70th) are all based on the Aquitaine, is it too much of a stretch to say that the fighter/bombers are organized into Groups (or whatever) based on each destroyer?
And they have one squadron (my guess the 53rd, due to its multi-role [space superiority] designation, and its history) sort of be the lead squadron, and the commander of that squadron is sort of the Group Leader. (or whatever you want to call him).
Since the 64th's leader is a Cmdr.[beckett], i guess the 64th is the senior/lead bomber squadron, and lets say the 242nd and some other squadron are the second in commands (Lt. Cmdr Cordova, maybe the 134th, with Lt. Cmdr. Vincey?), etc....
I guess the more multirole squadrons (53rd being space sup., 242nd being interceptor that doubles as surgical strike, light strike/assault and 134th being able to back them up with whatever) would be the more senior, while specialized squadrons are the less priority ones (the 107th being heavy assault, Lt. Samsa, etc.)
[dont know about the vasudan organization...they dont even say what the 203rd is designated as. and he is a cmdr, IIRC]
Maybe?
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Nah. Alpha 1 took out the Lucy with the ML16s.
Don't you mean Circes and TAGs?
[dont know about the vasudan organization...they dont even say what the 203rd is designated as. and he is a cmdr, IIRC]
IIRC, Vasudan units are number only. Only elite units get actual names. I'm actually not sure if that's entirely cannon.
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Yeah I think that was twisted infinities..... I think. Cool idea though.
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Nah. Alpha 1 took out the Lucy with the ML16s.
My guess about Loukakis being captain and all, and the ranks...
Since, the 242nd, the 53rd, the 64th, and the 107th (and later the 70th) are all based on the Aquitaine, is it too much of a stretch to say that the fighter/bombers are organized into Groups (or whatever) based on each destroyer?
And they have one squadron (my guess the 53rd, due to its multi-role [space superiority] designation, and its history) sort of be the lead squadron, and the commander of that squadron is sort of the Group Leader. (or whatever you want to call him).
Since the 64th's leader is a Cmdr.[beckett], i guess the 64th is the senior/lead bomber squadron, and lets say the 242nd and some other squadron are the second in commands (Lt. Cmdr Cordova, maybe the 134th, with Lt. Cmdr. Vincey?), etc....
I guess the more multirole squadrons (53rd being space sup., 242nd being interceptor that doubles as surgical strike, light strike/assault and 134th being able to back them up with whatever) would be the more senior, while specialized squadrons are the less priority ones (the 107th being heavy assault, Lt. Samsa, etc.)
[dont know about the vasudan organization...they dont even say what the 203rd is designated as. and he is a cmdr, IIRC]
Maybe?
Interesting theory, but think logically ?? Why would they need a command squadron really ? As seen later in the campaign, when Alpha 1 gets his own squadron, it's Admiral Petrarch who gives the orders to the squadron leaders. If Loukakis/anybody would be a group leader, wouldn't he give orders to you ??
Ah, and Vincey from Baracudas was CMDR:
Welcome to the 134th Barracudas, pilot. I'm Commander Vincey, your squadron leader.
And about Vasudans - the name of the squadron was never mentioned in the game itself, but we know that their squadron patch was a scorpion tail, and knowing how it went in the other squadrons (107th Ravens - a raven, 134th Baracudas - a baracuda, I think, 242nd Suicide Kings - a king card, 70th Blue Lions - a blue lion), then we can assume that the squadron name was somehow connected to Scorpions. The FSWiki, though not canon, states it's 203rd Scorpions. That makes sense, at least for me.
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Nah. Alpha 1 took out the Lucy with the ML16s.
Don't you mean Circes and TAGs?
No, that was FRED, not the Lucy. :D