Hard Light Productions Forums

Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The FRED Workshop => Topic started by: Titan on November 24, 2006, 08:07:53 am

Title: Attention all campaign makers!!!!!!!
Post by: Titan on November 24, 2006, 08:07:53 am
If anyone needs a fredder experienced in most things in fred2 (i cant do the long lines of SEXPs yet  ;) )  plz post on this  thread. note i can only make missions, can't really participate, stuff like that, and i use retail only. Thanks! ;)
Title: Re: Attention all campaign makers!!!!!!!
Post by: IPAndrews on November 24, 2006, 08:12:19 am
You can FRED but you can't do SEXPs?  :nervous:
Title: Re: Attention all campaign makers!!!!!!!
Post by: IPAndrews on November 24, 2006, 08:23:03 am
Oh never mind. Don't worry about it. I can drive but I can't use a steering wheel.
Title: Re: Attention all campaign makers!!!!!!!
Post by: Titan on November 24, 2006, 09:32:23 am
i can't the long lines of SEXPs like the ones for Sleipner in the tutorial........  ::)
Title: Re: Attention all campaign makers!!!!!!!
Post by: nubbles526 on November 24, 2006, 09:42:41 am
so what are you asking for?
Title: Re: Attention all campaign makers!!!!!!!
Post by: Titan on November 24, 2006, 10:00:13 am
Me? I'm asking if anyone needs a fredder.........
Title: Re: Attention all campaign makers!!!!!!!
Post by: TopAce on November 24, 2006, 02:41:42 pm
Oh never mind. Don't worry about it. I can drive but I can't use a steering wheel.

That's not a problem as long as your brakes and reflexes work.

That said, I think Titan only needs an opportunity to enhance his FREDding skills.
Title: Re: Attention all campaign makers!!!!!!!
Post by: Kie99 on November 24, 2006, 02:44:42 pm
Titan, have a look at the FRED Academy.  Seems like the perfect thing for you.

http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,28122.0.html
Title: Re: Attention all campaign makers!!!!!!!
Post by: Titan on November 24, 2006, 05:02:29 pm
By can't i mean not persistent enough to do them.....  :pimp:
Title: Re: Attention all campaign makers!!!!!!!
Post by: Cobra on November 24, 2006, 05:21:33 pm
Well then, if you're not persistent you'll never become a decent FREDer, now, will you? :rolleyes:

Still, it's a good idea to actually try and make some missions, and try a few for the FA. I sucked at FRED before I went and made a mission for the FA. :)
Title: Re: Attention all campaign makers!!!!!!!
Post by: Mobius on November 25, 2006, 01:22:23 pm
I initially found all that Slepiner thing difficult the first time I read it,but I solved th eproblem in no-time: I have simply wrote on a paper what was written there(variable basics)and read it,then I made my own version of the Orion capture operation.... In one minute I learned how to use variables.

Read Karajorma's FreeSpace FAQ:there are some hints for n00b FREDders. Also,try to DL FRED 2 Open ASAP. I've DL it only this summer and I found it excellent,100 times better than the normal FRED 2.


Good luck!
Title: Re: Attention all campaign makers!!!!!!!
Post by: Titan on November 25, 2006, 02:29:36 pm
By not persistant its just i cant stand reading the stuff then copying it......  :pimp:
Title: Re: Attention all campaign makers!!!!!!!
Post by: Polpolion on November 25, 2006, 03:45:47 pm
By not persistant its just i cant stand reading the stuff then copying it......  :pimp:

So essentialy, by "I can't use" you mean "I don't like to use" SEXPs?
Title: Re: Attention all campaign makers!!!!!!!
Post by: Titan on November 25, 2006, 03:48:46 pm
THE LONG LINES OF SEXPs LIKE THE ONES FOR SLEPNIER IN THE TUTORIAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :mad: :hopping:
Title: Re: Attention all campaign makers!!!!!!!
Post by: Nuclear1 on November 25, 2006, 08:25:13 pm
THE LONG LINES OF SEXPs LIKE THE ONES FOR SLEPNIER IN THE TUTORIAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :mad: :hopping:

Sorry, but those SEXPs are common in most fairly-complicated missions in campaigns.  They're one of the basic skills you have to learn before hiring yourself out for FRED jobs, because if someone finds out you can do something that reasonably simple, you'll be out of a FRED job nice and quick.

And calm down.  No need to use all caps and LONG LINES OF EXCLAMATION MARKS!!!!!!!!!!!!  We understand you just fine otherwise.
Title: Re: Attention all campaign makers!!!!!!!
Post by: Mobius on November 26, 2006, 12:53:47 pm
Using "<" ">" and "=" the first time you run FRED isn't that encouraging...

Concentrate on more common sexps like "is-destroyed-delay" and "has-departed-delay" and start making simple single missions. Then try new SEXPs and learn how to use them.

The FRED walkthrough isn't that effective with noob FREDders because " the basics and advanced" are put together. It should have been divided in multiple parts. I found it almost useless the first time I checked it.

If you reach a good level you can work with me for....I don't know,uhm....Colossus. Yeah,Colossus.
Title: Re: Attention all campaign makers!!!!!!!
Post by: karajorma on November 26, 2006, 01:55:30 pm
The FRED walkthrough isn't that effective with noob FREDders because " the basics and advanced" are put together. It should have been divided in multiple parts. I found it almost useless the first time I checked it.

I found it very useful. In fact I went straight from it to making my own missions which although not that great in story terms aren't that bad in terms of FREDding.
Title: Re: Attention all campaign makers!!!!!!!
Post by: Mobius on November 26, 2006, 02:01:49 pm
I had some problems because of the language. I understand English very well but something strange happened when I read the walktrough for the first time...I still don't know why.

Anyway English/American members shouldn't have such problems.
Title: Re: Attention all campaign makers!!!!!!!
Post by: Titan on November 26, 2006, 02:54:37 pm
uhhhhhhhhhhh-huh..........  ::)

P.S. i'm getting to work on variables.. i read that part of the tutorial 20 times and im slowly starting to understand it.........  ;)

Edit: can someone tell my what inferno is? i keep hearing it and dont have a clue about what it is.  :P
Title: Re: Attention all campaign makers!!!!!!!
Post by: karajorma on November 26, 2006, 04:28:31 pm
Inferno is one of the big hosted campaigns. Just look on the main forum page about halfway down the hosted section.
Title: Re: Attention all campaign makers!!!!!!!
Post by: Titan on November 27, 2006, 01:39:08 pm
oh... ok, i'll look at that.......  duh.... :snipe:

P.S. Ok, i COMPLETELY understand variables, but i dont have a situation yet when i have to use them.......  :D
Title: Re: Attention all campaign makers!!!!!!!
Post by: Polpolion on November 27, 2006, 04:49:34 pm
P.S. i'm getting to work on variables.. i read that part of the tutorial 20 times and im slowly starting to understand it.........  ;)

I'm pretty sure you can get along without variables, but it is really hard and annoying trying to create the line of SEXPs to replace the variable.
Title: Re: Attention all campaign makers!!!!!!!
Post by: karajorma on November 28, 2006, 04:03:46 am
It's possible to FRED without variables. In fact :v: only used variables in one mission in the whole of FS2 (To repair the Lucidity's radar dish a little  every 30 seconds or so in Battle of the Wilderness) and they actually misused them in that mission anyway (They modify a variable but never actually use its value anywhere).

However you'll find that the better you become as a FREDder the more trouble you have making missions without them as they allow you to do all kinds of things that are completely impossible without them.
Title: Re: Attention all campaign makers!!!!!!!
Post by: TopAce on November 28, 2006, 11:57:41 am
Titan, did you learn to make simple SEXPs? I know that in order to make variables work, you need SEXPs, but what I would like to know if you, for example, know how to make mission goals or directives or make Command send messages.
Title: Re: Attention all campaign makers!!!!!!!
Post by: Titan on November 28, 2006, 02:11:11 pm
Titan, did you learn to make simple SEXPs? I know that in order to make variables work, you need SEXPs, but what I would like to know if you, for example, know how to make mission goals or directives or make Command send messages.

Ya........ i know all that stuff........  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Attention all campaign makers!!!!!!!
Post by: Goober5000 on November 29, 2006, 07:39:00 pm
It's possible to FRED without variables. In fact :v: only used variables in one mission in the whole of FS2...

This is technically true, but don't forget that the Special Explosion feature is based on the variable infrastructure. :)
Title: Re: Attention all campaign makers!!!!!!!
Post by: karajorma on November 30, 2006, 10:31:32 am
Yeah but it doesn't require the FREDder to actually understand variables. :)

Ironically enough the only time the modify-variable SEXP is used correctly in the entire game is in the mission from the walkthrough :D
Title: Re: Attention all campaign makers!!!!!!!
Post by: NGTM-1R on November 30, 2006, 11:01:32 am
I've never made a mission with a variable myself. :p Truthfully "Cleaning Crew" is pretty basic in terms of FREDding. If you want complication you'll have to move up to "Operation Savior", but that's not particularly complicated in terms of the actual sexp'ing, just attention to detail.
Title: Re: Attention all campaign makers!!!!!!!
Post by: Dark Hunter on November 30, 2006, 02:16:15 pm
You want to see a complicated mission: look at the final of Transcend. I looked at the events and I think the only ones I understood were the fade-in/fade-out events. The rest was absolutely unintelligible to me... :(
Title: Re: Attention all campaign makers!!!!!!!
Post by: karajorma on November 30, 2006, 02:38:36 pm
The problem with things like Transcend is that we're reaching the point where SEXPs are complex enough that it's no longer immediately obvious what they do from event names.

The more complex missions rely heavily on the use of variables and arguments which makes it hard for anyone other than the creator to know what is going on.

I also looked at the last mission of Transcend in FRED and I also had a hard time understanding what was going on without sitting down and having a very good read through the mission. I'm getting seriously tempted to revive an old idea I mentioned once before and make it possible to attach comments to events. :)
Title: Re: Attention all campaign makers!!!!!!!
Post by: TopAce on November 30, 2006, 02:45:54 pm
I would welcome that addition.
Title: Re: Attention all campaign makers!!!!!!!
Post by: karajorma on November 30, 2006, 03:21:03 pm
I'll add it to my post 3.6.9 list then :)
Title: Re: Attention all campaign makers!!!!!!!
Post by: Mobius on November 30, 2006, 04:22:34 pm
Wow....

Is there anything else you are going to add?
Title: Re: Attention all campaign makers!!!!!!!
Post by: karajorma on November 30, 2006, 05:51:31 pm
I've got a whole bunch of ideas actually :) I don't particularly plan to list them though cause most need investigation to see if they're feasible first :)

The only definite is that I'm going to finish off my Team Loadout changes.
Title: Re: Attention all campaign makers!!!!!!!
Post by: Mobius on December 01, 2006, 04:17:58 pm
Have you planned something about cutscene SEXPs?
Title: Re: Attention all campaign makers!!!!!!!
Post by: karajorma on December 01, 2006, 05:28:23 pm
They're WMC's children. I'm not sure my mathmatical skills are up to dealing with the SEXPs even if they do need anything done.
Title: Re: Attention all campaign makers!!!!!!!
Post by: Titan on December 02, 2006, 12:31:25 pm
............
Title: Re: Attention all campaign makers!!!!!!!
Post by: karajorma on December 02, 2006, 12:50:16 pm
Less dots more content Titan.
Title: Re: Attention all campaign makers!!!!!!!
Post by: Dark Hunter on December 02, 2006, 01:05:00 pm
I think he is surprised (as I was, at first) at how quickly HLP topics go off on tangents.  :D
Title: Re: Attention all campaign makers!!!!!!!
Post by: Titan on December 02, 2006, 01:20:03 pm
yup; i post something about seeing if anyone needs freding done and they start gossiping like housewives.  :D
Title: Re: Attention all campaign makers!!!!!!!
Post by: Mobius on December 02, 2006, 02:11:24 pm
I said that you could help me with Colossus,if you want.

Uhm,first you have to improve your FRED abilities a bit. Are you FREDding daily like me,aren't you?
Title: Re: Attention all campaign makers!!!!!!!
Post by: Titan on December 02, 2006, 02:55:17 pm
yup, i'm making 2 missions at once so i can release a demo for Their Finest Hour, a campaing dealing with the beginning of the NTF. GTVA thought that they were invulnerable, but they get their asses kicked; most of the campaign's defensive
Title: Re: Attention all campaign makers!!!!!!!
Post by: Mobius on December 02, 2006, 03:07:29 pm
The idea is good,except for the name....
Can you find something...else?

(the name is good but it's like saying FS*)
Title: Re: Attention all campaign makers!!!!!!!
Post by: Titan on December 02, 2006, 04:13:06 pm
i was thinking of Assault from Neo-Terra....... anyway, lets talk buisiness....... i'll work for $0.00 an hour, and i can only work for 2 hours on weekdays, and i have plenty of spare time otherwise.
Title: Re: Attention all campaign makers!!!!!!!
Post by: Mobius on December 02, 2006, 04:20:03 pm
Which means that you can make "only" one mission in a week.

Are you practising?

Ignore th ebackgrounds if you can. The first part of the campaign in in the Nebula.
Title: Re: Attention all campaign makers!!!!!!!
Post by: Titan on December 02, 2006, 04:28:41 pm
I can probably mamage 1 and a half missions a week.... unless its ok to still have time to work on Assault from Neo Terra.......
Title: Re: Attention all campaign makers!!!!!!!
Post by: CP5670 on December 02, 2006, 11:30:50 pm
It takes me about a week to fully complete a mission, and that assumes I have four or five hours to work on it each day. :p (building it isn't too bad, but testing it over and over again and working out every last bug and balance issue is what takes up most of the time)
Title: Re: Attention all campaign makers!!!!!!!
Post by: Titan on December 03, 2006, 07:50:02 am
oh yeah......... i never, ever, EVER did a quite thorough series of test for any of my missions. maybe because they were always just for me, and no-one else.
Title: Re: Attention all campaign makers!!!!!!!
Post by: asyikarea51 on December 03, 2006, 07:57:28 am
oh yeah......... i never, ever, EVER did a quite thorough series of test for any of my missions. maybe because they were always just for me, and no-one else.

Probably in the same boat as you are. :lol: Most I do is to make sure the events flow properly. Who knows what a different player could do in that same mission...

And I never got the hang of variables either. (http://209.85.12.236/5024/118/emo/bangwall.gif)
Title: Re: Attention all campaign makers!!!!!!!
Post by: karajorma on December 03, 2006, 08:04:50 am
Have you read my FAQ? They're really simple once you get what they actually are.

Read this (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/karajorma/FAQ/fredretail.html#variables). If you can't grasp that ask again and I'll explain in more detail :) If you find the example I gave confusing it's cause I gave a real use for them rather than a simple example. I can give a simple example too if you want :)
Title: Re: Attention all campaign makers!!!!!!!
Post by: Titan on December 03, 2006, 08:28:11 am
I already get variables......... now will someone tell me if they need fredding done...........  ::)
Title: Re: Attention all campaign makers!!!!!!!
Post by: Goober5000 on December 03, 2006, 12:15:38 pm
I already get variables......... now will someone tell me if they need fredding done...........  ::)

Are you volunteering to FRED? :) I'm sure one of the hosted projects (either here or Game Warden) would love an extra FREDder. :)
Title: Re: Attention all campaign makers!!!!!!!
Post by: Titan on December 03, 2006, 12:46:50 pm
thing is, none of them use just retail ships........
Title: Re: Attention all campaign makers!!!!!!!
Post by: Cobra on December 03, 2006, 03:03:12 pm
thing is, none of them use just retail ships........

Not many people use retail, anyway. :P
Title: Re: Attention all campaign makers!!!!!!!
Post by: Titan on December 03, 2006, 03:49:12 pm
*sensed problem before even joined*  :sigh:
Title: Re: Attention all campaign makers!!!!!!!
Post by: Dark Hunter on December 03, 2006, 03:58:18 pm
Actually, there is a project working exclusively with retail. It's blackhole's Shivan campaign. He's trying to mod it so that Shivan ships are pilot-able, with Shivan weapons.

He's having a tough time modding it, don't know about FREDding...

Titan, I'd recommend you download a few campaigns, along with FSOpen. Surely your parents wouldn't object to those?
Title: Re: Attention all campaign makers!!!!!!!
Post by: Cobra on December 03, 2006, 03:59:14 pm
Sure they will, he's not allowed to download anything. :P
Title: Re: Attention all campaign makers!!!!!!!
Post by: Dark Hunter on December 03, 2006, 04:01:31 pm
:rolleyes: at people who see all downloadable items as evil.
Title: Re: Attention all campaign makers!!!!!!!
Post by: blackhole on December 03, 2006, 04:05:27 pm
Quote
don't know about FREDding...

I've had no problems with FREDding :) Probably because none of my missions have anything thats very complicated in them. Heck, i don't even know what the new SEXP's are. The only comprimise was making a rather interesting method of getting the player's ship to "dock" on a cruiser, which is completely impossible in the first place :D
Title: Re: Attention all campaign makers!!!!!!!
Post by: Titan on December 03, 2006, 06:44:15 pm
my parents dont trust me downloading things from the internet...... but leave them out of this.
Title: Re: Attention all campaign makers!!!!!!!
Post by: blackhole on December 04, 2006, 01:09:29 am
Um, titan, how do you propose to work on _ANY_ project if you can't download it? Would be mighty difficult...
Title: Re: Attention all campaign makers!!!!!!!
Post by: Titan on December 04, 2006, 04:13:16 pm
i'm trying to get my parents to let me download the modding stuff for christmas, unfortunetly its hunting season right now and computer games is the last thing he could possibly care about right now...... but i wanna get him to look tonight.
Title: Re: Attention all campaign makers!!!!!!!
Post by: Mobius on December 04, 2006, 05:24:49 pm
fortunately its hunting season right now

Corrected.
Title: Re: Attention all campaign makers!!!!!!!
Post by: Titan on December 05, 2006, 08:09:06 am
cant wait 'till next year, when i can hunt  :wakka:
Title: Re: Attention all campaign makers!!!!!!!
Post by: Mobius on December 05, 2006, 01:42:56 pm
You're an hunter too :D

That's fine.Finding an hunter here is like meeting another Italian:something almost impossible.

Here the hunting season started about two months ago...eh..eh...
Title: Re: Attention all campaign makers!!!!!!!
Post by: Polpolion on December 05, 2006, 06:54:42 pm
i'm trying to get my parents to let me download the modding stuff for christmas, unfortunetly its hunting season right now and computer games is the last thing he could possibly care about right now...... but i wanna get him to look tonight.

All you need is FS2. You can make SCP compatible missions is retail FRED, but you just can't use any special SEXPs. And if you have an e-mail address, all you need to do is get the mission/model/texture/effect e-mailed to you and then copied directly into the appropriate FS2 directory. I mean, it's not like your dad goes looking thought all the folders on the computer looking for stuff that wasn't there. And chances are they would not know the difference between something that came with the game and something that someone here made. Even if they found it they would be like "WTF <your name here>, what is this 'bomber-t03.POF'? Are you downloading various inappropriate materials for your viewing age?"

You just gotta be a little... sneaky...



EDIT: I am not endorsing you sneaking around house hold rules. Be sneaky at your own risk. I hold no responsibility for you getting caught being sneaky.
Title: Re: Attention all campaign makers!!!!!!!
Post by: Titan on December 06, 2006, 06:17:41 am
my dad let me start modding! Already halfway done moddeling my first ship! (a civvy transport, i wonder if you can make it so if you get to close you'll here screaming.........  :drevil: ........... but considering this is in space that wont work
Title: Re: Attention all campaign makers!!!!!!!
Post by: Polpolion on December 06, 2006, 09:24:18 pm
my dad let me start modding! Already halfway done moddeling my first ship! (a civvy transport, i wonder if you can make it so if you get to close you'll here screaming.........  :drevil: ........... but considering this is in space that wont work


You could FRED that in, but, yeah... space and all...
Title: Re: Attention all campaign makers!!!!!!!
Post by: Titan on December 07, 2006, 09:36:01 am
still, it would be AWESOME........ now i just have to get HOME SO I CAN WORK ON IT!!!!!!!!! I HATE SCHOOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 :(
Title: Re: Attention all campaign makers!!!!!!!
Post by: Mobius on December 07, 2006, 01:50:12 pm
You shouldn't hate school,dood.

Schola magistra vitae est
:rolleyes:
Title: Re: Attention all campaign makers!!!!!!!
Post by: Polpolion on December 07, 2006, 02:52:44 pm
still, it would be AWESOME........ now i just have to get HOME SO I CAN WORK ON IT!!!!!!!!! I HATE SCHOOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 :(

C'mon, it's not that bad, and I went to a private school for MS so I know bad.