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Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Rictor on December 10, 2006, 12:56:25 pm

Title: Gulf states announce nuclear plan
Post by: Rictor on December 10, 2006, 12:56:25 pm
I know this news will probably make Sandwich do this (http://"http://static.flickr.com/6/5582521_58f0ab1b4e_m.jpg"), so my apologies in advance.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6167041.stm

Quote
Six oil-rich Gulf nations have said they are considering seeking nuclear technology for peaceful purposesOfficials from Bahrain, Kuwait, Oman, Qatar, Saudi Arabia and the UAE also urged a peaceful settlement to the crisis over Iran's nuclear programme.

The six Arab states said they were exploring the possibility of creating a shared nuclear programme.

They stressed their right to nuclear energy and emphasised that any programme would be peaceful.

This also pretty much destroys the US's case against Iran. Because the Gulf states, all US allies mind you, are now demanding the exact same thing as Iran. So either the US turns against the only Arab allies it has, or else it pursues a course even more blatantly hypocritical than it is now. If it gives a country such as Saudi Arabia, a charming bastion of democracy and human rights, the go-ahead while still attempting to stop the Iranian nuclear program, it will be blindingly obvious that the US is interested in nothing more than beating on Iran.
Title: Re: Gulf states announce nuclear plan
Post by: Nuclear1 on December 10, 2006, 01:02:32 pm
This also pretty much destroys the US's case against Iran. Because the Gulf states, all US allies mind you, are now demanding the exact same thing as Iran. So either the US turns against the only Arab allies it has, or else it pursues a course even more blatantly hypocritical than it is now. If it gives a country such as Saudi Arabia, a charming bastion of democracy and human rights, the go-ahead while still attempting to stop the Iranian nuclear program, it will be blindingly obvious that the US is interested in nothing more than beating on Iran.

Yes, because Saudi Arabia, Oman, Qatar, and Kuwait, et al. have threatened to wipe Israel off the map recently.  Agreed, Saudi Arabia isn't exactly a shining beacon of justice, but I think the US (and maybe the world) would trust them a little more with nuclear technology than a theocracy under the supervision of an ultra right-wing nutjob like Iran?
Title: Re: Gulf states announce nuclear plan
Post by: an0n on December 10, 2006, 01:07:35 pm
I think we should give them all our nukes....
Title: Re: Gulf states announce nuclear plan
Post by: vyper on December 10, 2006, 01:11:05 pm
Indeed.
Title: Re: Gulf states announce nuclear plan
Post by: Janos on December 10, 2006, 01:36:51 pm
come on npt sucks

no

wait

oh ****s
Title: Re: Gulf states announce nuclear plan
Post by: Turambar on December 10, 2006, 02:14:32 pm
for once i agree with an0n

if anything it'd be fun to watch.
Title: Re: Gulf states announce nuclear plan
Post by: Nuke on December 10, 2006, 03:21:33 pm
nuke the world!
burn them all!
Title: Re: Gulf states announce nuclear plan
Post by: Gank on December 10, 2006, 03:58:19 pm
but I think the US (and maybe the world) would trust them a little more with nuclear technology than a theocracy under the supervision of an ultra right-wing nutjob like Iran?

Shows how little you know, Saudi is more ultra right-wing than Iran, bit rich to hear an american complaining about right-wing governments though, kinda pot and kettle.

Anyone else find it interesting the worlds greatest oil-producers are getting interested in nuclear power?
Title: Re: Gulf states announce nuclear plan
Post by: Sandwich on December 10, 2006, 04:04:15 pm
Anyone else find it interesting the worlds greatest oil-producers are getting interested in nuclear power?

You took the words right out of my mouth. What do they, of all nations on God's green Earth, need nuclear power for?
Title: Re: Gulf states announce nuclear plan
Post by: Gank on December 10, 2006, 04:12:22 pm
Number of reasons, strategic balance being one of them, they may be worried about having a nuclear Iran on one side and a nuclear Israel on the other. Could just be they want the playing field leveled.

The other reason is energy. Essentially, oils a finite resource, at some stage its going to run out. Thats not in dispute, the estimates of when it will happen are. The Saudis and co may be thinking this is going to happen sooner than we think, in most of the countries mentioned oil reserves are a state secret and not open to outside scrutiny. They could also be thinking the less they have to use, the more money they gain from selling and increasing prices as supply diminishes could offset the price of nuclear power.
http://www.peakoil.net/ for more info

I wouldnt worry about them trying to wipe you off the map, you're far to near for that to be a viable tactic, and the Saudis have always really seen you as a minor nuisance, countering persian influence being much higher on their agenda. Lebanon for example, where they are effectively taking the US-Israeli side against Shia influence.
Title: Re: Gulf states announce nuclear plan
Post by: Rictor on December 10, 2006, 04:32:36 pm
Yes, because Saudi Arabia, Oman, Qatar, and Kuwait, et al. have threatened to wipe Israel off the map recently.  Agreed, Saudi Arabia isn't exactly a shining beacon of justice, but I think the US (and maybe the world) would trust them a little more with nuclear technology than a theocracy under the supervision of an ultra right-wing nutjob like Iran?

Dude, at least you could have said the UAE or something. Saudi Arabia is quite a bit worse than Iran, and they also do not recognize Israel as a nation. In fact, you can't get in to the country is you have an Israeli stamp on your passport. Remeber where the majority of the 9/11 hijakcers came from? Where Osama is from?

Also consider that the Saudi government is a lot less stable than Iran's. While the US may talk about the people rising up against the evil, fascist mullahs, it's a fantasy. The Saudi government (aka the extended royal family) is under threat from Islamic militants, and if the House of Saud falls it will be bin Laden wannabes who take power.

Title: Re: Gulf states announce nuclear plan
Post by: Bobboau on December 10, 2006, 04:52:37 pm
true, but the bin Laden wannabes are the ones who have power right now in Iran, at least the Saudis try a little bit to at least superficaly no seem quite as insaine as they are. if I had to chose between Saudi Arabia haveing nukes and Iran haveing them, or just Saudi Arabia haveing them, you can probly bet wich of the two I'd prefer.
Title: Re: Gulf states announce nuclear plan
Post by: Gank on December 10, 2006, 05:54:47 pm
Uh-huh, and when some saudi radicals set one off in new york, you'll invade syria in retaliation.

One of the ways House of Saud combats extremism at home is by encouraging it abroad. Bin Ladin and the Taliban wouldnt have got anywhere without Saudi funding, while the Iranians actively worked against them. Salafist extremism is potentially much more dangerous to the west the Khomenitism. Best if you didnt let anyone have them, because you've got no real friends in that region.
Title: Re: Gulf states announce nuclear plan
Post by: NGTM-1R on December 10, 2006, 07:42:35 pm
The Saudis are rather schizoid on the subject. On the one hand they don't like us as a country, on the other they rely on us to ensure their safety. A good deal of the problem is related to the division of power in the Saudi monarchy. The Saudis aren't so mad as to directly fund any terroristic organization. That's what Iran does. Their method of dealing with extremism which you describe Gank has in large measure failed them. When the next generation of Saudi royalty comes to power they are likely to assume the Egyptian ultra-hardline stance against Islamic extremism.
Title: Re: Gulf states announce nuclear plan
Post by: Polpolion on December 10, 2006, 08:09:37 pm
Its times like these that I wish I lived... umm... Well, It seems as though there is no where in the world that hasn't been screwed up in the past few years somehow.
Title: Re: Gulf states announce nuclear plan
Post by: Nuclear1 on December 10, 2006, 08:59:03 pm
but I think the US (and maybe the world) would trust them a little more with nuclear technology than a theocracy under the supervision of an ultra right-wing nutjob like Iran?

Shows how little you know, Saudi is more ultra right-wing than Iran, bit rich to hear an american complaining about right-wing governments though, kinda pot and kettle.

Rich, because that's possibly one of the worst cheap shots I've ever heard.  Did I ever lead you to believe that I support the neoconservatives in the US?  I detest extreme right-wing governments, be it Bush or Iran.  Get off your highhorse.
Title: Re: Gulf states announce nuclear plan
Post by: Unknown Target on December 10, 2006, 09:16:18 pm
But you're American! That must mean you're the epitome of right-wing ultra conservative Christian fundamentalism! I mean, he's such a learned and obviously well informed non-American, his completely non-biased and totally informed opinion must be true, because he's so different from all us poor degenerate Americans!


[sarcasm dripping off post]
Title: Re: Gulf states announce nuclear plan
Post by: Ford Prefect on December 10, 2006, 09:22:25 pm
Sarcasm would be dripping off the post if you hadn't included "[sarcasm dripping off post]".
Title: Re: Gulf states announce nuclear plan
Post by: Gank on December 10, 2006, 10:45:07 pm
Rich, because that's possibly one of the worst cheap shots I've ever heard.  Did I ever lead you to believe that I support the neoconservatives in the US?  I detest extreme right-wing governments, be it Bush or Iran.  Get off your highhorse.


Ya well you should expect these kind of things by now. You're going to use the same language expect to get tarred with the same brush.

But you're American! That must mean you're the epitome of right-wing ultra conservative Christian fundamentalism! I mean, he's such a learned and obviously well informed non-American, his completely non-biased and totally informed opinion must be true, because he's so different from all us poor degenerate Americans!

Thank you. Dont get upset about it though, its not yer fault you're ignorant, blame your society as a whole.
Title: Re: Gulf states announce nuclear plan
Post by: achtung on December 10, 2006, 11:26:07 pm
But you're American! That must mean you're the epitome of right-wing ultra conservative Christian fundamentalism! I mean, he's such a learned and obviously well informed non-American, his completely non-biased and totally informed opinion must be true, because he's so different from all us poor degenerate Americans!

Thank you. Dont get upset about it though, its not yer fault I'm ignorant, blame my shortsightedness, and stereotypical nature.
Fixed.
Title: Re: Gulf states announce nuclear plan
Post by: Turnsky on December 11, 2006, 01:35:15 am
Anyone else find it interesting the worlds greatest oil-producers are getting interested in nuclear power?

You took the words right out of my mouth. What do they, of all nations on God's green Earth, need nuclear power for?

to power their solid gold atomic powered time-travelling delorians?
Title: Re: Gulf states announce nuclear plan
Post by: aldo_14 on December 11, 2006, 03:47:18 am
Its times like these that I wish I lived... umm... Well, It seems as though there is no where in the world that hasn't been screwed up in the past few years somehow.

Tuvalu

Oh wait, that's flooding thanks to global warming and will probably be underwater in the coming century.
Title: Re: Gulf states announce nuclear plan
Post by: Bobboau on December 11, 2006, 05:30:22 am
you could always move to Antarctica, nothing bad going on there now, and as Aldo said, it's going to be getting to be quite pleasant in the coming years.
Title: Re: Gulf states announce nuclear plan
Post by: Nuclear1 on December 11, 2006, 05:51:00 am
Rich, because that's possibly one of the worst cheap shots I've ever heard.  Did I ever lead you to believe that I support the neoconservatives in the US?  I detest extreme right-wing governments, be it Bush or Iran.  Get off your highhorse.


Ya well you should expect these kind of things by now. You're going to use the same language expect to get tarred with the same brush.

Where are you going with this?  All you're proving with this is, as Swantz pointed out, that you look no further than stereotypes (particularly about all Americans being stupid theofascists), when actually Americans aren't like this at all (there's a reason Bush's ratings are as low as they are).
Title: Re: Gulf states announce nuclear plan
Post by: Unknown Target on December 11, 2006, 09:26:37 am
Ford: I put the [sarcasm] there, just to make sure eeryone got it :p

Rich, because that's possibly one of the worst cheap shots I've ever heard.  Did I ever lead you to believe that I support the neoconservatives in the US?  I detest extreme right-wing governments, be it Bush or Iran.  Get off your highhorse.


Ya well you should expect these kind of things by now. You're going to use the same language expect to get tarred with the same brush.

But you're American! That must mean you're the epitome of right-wing ultra conservative Christian fundamentalism! I mean, he's such a learned and obviously well informed non-American, his completely non-biased and totally informed opinion must be true, because he's so different from all us poor degenerate Americans!

Thank you. Dont get upset about it though, its not yer fault you're ignorant, blame your society as a whole.

Yea, and you're definitely showing your higher education by following blatant stereotypes that are quite obviously not true. As nuclear1 said; there's a reason Bush's approval ratings are so low. It's because Americans don't like what he's doing and don't agree with his policies. Oh wait - were you too busy having your head in the sand to notice that Americans voted the control of both the Senate and the House away from the GOP and gave it to the Democrats, as punishment for the GOP's policies? Maybe that's a sign that Americans as a whole don't agree with the way things are being run? Maybe you,*gasp*, might even have the same views as some Americans?
Why don't you stop following the crowd and bashing Americans, and maybe take the time to learn what you're talking about? That way, maybe you won't seem so narrow-minded in the next argument you enter.
Title: Re: Gulf states announce nuclear plan
Post by: Flipside on December 11, 2006, 10:01:17 am
Calm down guys :)
Title: Re: Gulf states announce nuclear plan
Post by: Gank on December 11, 2006, 01:20:54 pm
What so ye both agree that bush is a nutjob, but I'm anti-american for pointing it out? Riiight. Seriously, you're going to jump down peoples throats for pointing out stuff like this, it ****s on your whole "we're reasonable americans" speil. Get of your own high horses, if you dont agree with bush just say that, no needed to launch personal attacks because someone pointed out your nation is led by a wanker.
Title: Re: Gulf states announce nuclear plan
Post by: Flipside on December 11, 2006, 01:28:19 pm
To be honest, the comment they were taking offence at was...

Quote
Thank you. Dont get upset about it though, its not yer fault you're ignorant, blame your society as a whole.

Bush wasn't mentioned in that comment. So everyone can climb down off their soap box.
Title: Re: Gulf states announce nuclear plan
Post by: Unknown Target on December 11, 2006, 01:34:30 pm
*Takes community soap box and goes home*

If I can't have a soap box, no one can :p
Title: Re: Gulf states announce nuclear plan
Post by: Flipside on December 11, 2006, 01:43:18 pm
:lol: Please feel free to burn it ;)

Title: Re: Gulf states announce nuclear plan
Post by: Gank on December 11, 2006, 01:49:02 pm
To be honest, the comment they were taking offence at was...
snip

Bush wasn't mentioned in that comment. So everyone can climb down off their soap box.

Hmm, that was sarcasm, I presumed people were intelligent enough to realise that.
Title: Re: Gulf states announce nuclear plan
Post by: Flipside on December 11, 2006, 02:02:17 pm
Intelligent, yes, Clairvoyant, no.

A suggestion, if you are being sarcastic, use the :p smiley, text can't convey tone of voice, and people take things in here way too seriously.

Basically, my job is to avoid this (http://www.aqsx85.dsl.pipex.com/Drama.wmv) happening, and if a bit of silly ascii-art can do that, then all the better :)
Title: Re: Gulf states announce nuclear plan
Post by: Ford Prefect on December 11, 2006, 02:10:34 pm
Smilies completely undermine the art of sarcasm. Imagine trying to read Chaucer with stupid little faces in it.
Title: Re: Gulf states announce nuclear plan
Post by: Flipside on December 11, 2006, 02:20:40 pm
Chaucer didn't post here. And he recieved his own fair share of criticism from people who took him seriously.
Title: Re: Gulf states announce nuclear plan
Post by: Ford Prefect on December 11, 2006, 02:24:39 pm
(Which reflects poorly on them), but anyway, fine-- I post here and I don't use them.

Wait, I should totally give a seminar. And charge for it.
Title: Re: Gulf states announce nuclear plan
Post by: Flipside on December 11, 2006, 02:27:17 pm
Yes, but more or less everything you say is sarcastic, so no-one takes you seriously anyway :p
Title: Re: Gulf states announce nuclear plan
Post by: Unknown Target on December 11, 2006, 02:35:08 pm
What? People pay attention to Ford?
Title: Re: Gulf states announce nuclear plan
Post by: Gank on December 11, 2006, 02:48:48 pm
I thought it was fairly obvious, why would anyone think americans are generally ignorant? 
Title: Re: Gulf states announce nuclear plan
Post by: Sandwich on December 11, 2006, 02:54:08 pm
{stirs pot} Wait, are you being serious?



:p
Title: Re: Gulf states announce nuclear plan
Post by: Gank on December 11, 2006, 03:00:00 pm
Do you see any smileys?  :P
Title: Re: Gulf states announce nuclear plan
Post by: Ford Prefect on December 11, 2006, 03:06:32 pm
What? People pay attention to Ford?
If they did, the world would be at peace, since I would obviously be made the Philosopher King. However, it's quite obvious they don't for the reason that whenever I become seriously engaged in a debate, the thread dies.
Title: Re: Gulf states announce nuclear plan
Post by: aldo_14 on December 12, 2006, 04:57:47 am
What? People pay attention to Ford?
If they did, the world would be at peace, since I would obviously be made the Philosopher King. However, it's quite obvious they don't for the reason that whenever I become seriously engaged in a debate, the thread dies.

I thought you were a car.
Title: Re: Gulf states announce nuclear plan
Post by: Crymson on December 12, 2006, 11:07:56 am
Ahh wow....So much I want to say and yet I have so much time...wait....crap I think I found my new favorite forum  :D

Now I forgot everything I was going to say...stupid memory...

Oh wait, first time posting and all that blah blah crap, but is this real? Because if they're all pursuing a nuclear program then it should support us wanting to stop Iran's. Damned Iran giving other nations more courage >_< But any more countries in the middle east getting nuclear capabilities(except maybe the UAE) does not bode well for us at all. And it's the international community that doesn't want Iran to have nuclear capability, not just the U.S.A.

You all give me the impression you think that America decides who gets nukes and who doesn't :P but it's the International Atomic Energy....Association? Idk I forgot the last part but yeah. And they won't allow the other countries to pursue the nuclear program, and I'm sure America will just look at them and half heartedly say "sorry guys I wish I could help ya".

And I often times don't get sarcasm, but that's 'cause I'm dense  :D Yay! Like a bloody rock I tell you!

Oh and...Who was it that believed in Philosopher Kings? Because I read that in a freaking history book somewhere and have been wanting to know the name(since I've forgotten it) ever since...Plato or someone from back then >_<
Title: Re: Gulf states announce nuclear plan
Post by: Admiral Edivad on December 12, 2006, 12:30:42 pm
@Crymson:

(http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/3232/welcome2hlpbbny2.gif) (http://imageshack.us)

Welcome to the HLP Station. Exits are located to the right, left, up, down, and 4th-dimensionally. However all of them are blocked, except the 4-d one, and no one's yet figured how to reach it. Somebody says there is anoter one in the 5th dimension: if you find it, let us know! In the event of a landing of any kind, you can and will be used as a flotation device. We are currently suffering from technical disruptions from time to time, which may cause the lights go out at any instance, and sometimes even the basic life support fails for some time. At these times, stay calm and composed; for these cases the station system automatically drops a computer from the roof above you with FSO installed and ready. They have independent power sources. Please keep all appendages within the installation at all times. Do not feed the resident Shivan Carl as he will become voracious and chew your leg off. You can find him in the ventilation duct. Throw him your lunch and hope he is not hungry and leaves you alone. Flamethrowers can be found under your seat but due to financial constraints have been re-filled with holy water. Phased Plasma rifles (40 watt range of course) can be found in storage lockers. To prevent act of n00b, however, these can only be opened by Moderators, Volition or a hyperintelligent shade of BluE. Please remember that any attempt to use the ASCII characters 0046h, 0053h, and 0033h in sequential order will result in you being trampled by FreeSpace fan boys. Your trampled remains will be fed to Carl so that the rest of us don't have to carry around so much food for lunch. If you shall go in the Vasudan section of the station and find a boxes labelled “Headz”, please don’t open them, unless you are a Vasudan. Trust me on this one.... In the event of catastrophic hull failure please board the nearest lifeboat which is pre-programmed for autonomous flight to our sister station the Game-Warden outpost. Thank you and enjoy your stay at Hard Light station as long as you will!
Title: Re: Gulf states announce nuclear plan
Post by: Crymson on December 12, 2006, 12:50:20 pm
Ahh thank you, I wanna figure out how to make some sort of instant teleporation device(Beam me up scotty?) so I'll let you know of my findings on the 4th, 5th, or 31st dimensions(The 31st dimension is really colorful methinks  :nod: ).
Title: Re: Gulf states announce nuclear plan
Post by: vyper on December 12, 2006, 02:42:19 pm
Rule #1 of HLP, you will not encourage the welcome speech.
Rule #2 of HLP, you will not encourage the welcome speech.
Rule #3 of HLP, you will not encourage the welcome speech.
Title: Re: Gulf states announce nuclear plan
Post by: Ford Prefect on December 12, 2006, 03:15:36 pm
Oh and...Who was it that believed in Philosopher Kings? Because I read that in a freaking history book somewhere and have been wanting to know the name(since I've forgotten it) ever since...Plato or someone from back then >_<
Yes, it was Plato. The idea is something of a philosophical punchline today-- like the categorical imperative-- but only amongst those who have not met me, and thus realized that there is one who can lead an ideal republic. Well, okay, I've made some minor semantic modifications to Plato's idea, but most of it is in my redefinition of "lead an ideal republic" as "frequently use the government's money to get drunk on very expensive wines".
Title: Re: Gulf states announce nuclear plan
Post by: Sandwich on December 12, 2006, 03:39:47 pm
Rule #1 of HLP, you will not encourage the welcome speech.
Rule #2 of HLP, you will not encourage the welcome speech.
Rule #3 of HLP, you will not encourage the welcome speech.

Why doth thou set rules without the backing of thine admins? Forsooth! I do lovest the Speech of Welcoming in all it's varied forms and functions! Discourage not, I say, for of such things is the HLP community composed! :)
Title: Re: Gulf states announce nuclear plan
Post by: Mefustae on December 13, 2006, 02:26:37 am
Rule #1 of HLP, you will not encourage the welcome speech.
Rule #2 of HLP, you will not encourage the welcome speech.
Rule #3 of HLP, you will not encourage the welcome speech.

Why doth thou set rules without the backing of thine admins? Forsooth! I do lovest the Speech of Welcoming in all it's varied forms and functions! Discourage not, I say, for of such things is the HLP community composed! :)
You better stop talking like that or else i'm gonna start hocking rocks at you.

Indeed, threats of bodily harm are what compose the HLP community.
Title: Re: Gulf states announce nuclear plan
Post by: Crymson on December 13, 2006, 08:15:19 am
Rule #1 of HLP, you will not encourage the welcome speech.
Rule #2 of HLP, you will not encourage the welcome speech.
Rule #3 of HLP, you will not encourage the welcome speech.

Why doth thou set rules without the backing of thine admins? Forsooth! I do lovest the Speech of Welcoming in all it's varied forms and functions! Discourage not, I say, for of such things is the HLP community composed! :)
You better stop talking like that or else i'm gonna start hocking rocks at you.

Indeed, threats of bodily harm are what compose the HLP community.

What's this? bodily harm? Oooooo lovely :D

And I had no idea the Philosopher Kings even needed a Republic, I thought it was just one King who has absolute power, and since he was a philosopher he could advance the civilization in the right direction....Bleh, I guess thats what happens when you know only one paragraph of information of a subject that should take many pages, if not it's own book :P
Title: Re: Gulf states announce nuclear plan
Post by: vyper on December 13, 2006, 08:24:57 am
Rule #1 of HLP, you will not encourage the welcome speech.
Rule #2 of HLP, you will not encourage the welcome speech.
Rule #3 of HLP, you will not encourage the welcome speech.

Why doth thou set rules without the backing of thine admins? Forsooth! I do lovest the Speech of Welcoming in all it's varied forms and functions! Discourage not, I say, for of such things is the HLP community composed! :)

Because this isn't an official administration rule - it's the kind of rule enforced by mob justice and violence. Using pitchforks...
Title: Re: Gulf states announce nuclear plan
Post by: aldo_14 on December 13, 2006, 08:39:14 am
Rule #1 of HLP, you will not encourage the welcome speech.
Rule #2 of HLP, you will not encourage the welcome speech.
Rule #3 of HLP, you will not encourage the welcome speech.

Why doth thou set rules without the backing of thine admins? Forsooth! I do lovest the Speech of Welcoming in all it's varied forms and functions! Discourage not, I say, for of such things is the HLP community composed! :)

Because this isn't an official administration rule - it's the kind of rule enforced by mob justice and violence. Using pitchforks...

Wait............pitchforks?

****, I knew this was taking more time than it should.
Title: Re: Gulf states announce nuclear plan
Post by: Sandwich on December 13, 2006, 11:52:25 am
You better stop talking like that or else i'm gonna start hocking rocks at you.

Indeed, threats of bodily harm are what compose the HLP community.

Surely thou jest! Ta-ha!