Giving wins to the empire just because is lame :pOh come on, we all know that the Empire is one of the most awesome organizations of any sci-fi universe. The main reason that Tie Fighter is so great is the fact that you get to fight for them. ;7
In addition to the poll, I'm going to roll this out in one of those face-off type things.
Overall Size:
Covenant - Massive fleets, numbering in the thousands
Empire - Dozens of ships, millions of fightercraft
Winner - Close, but I think the Covenant get this one
Years in Existence:
Covenant- Eons upon eons of history
Empire - Two whole decades
Winner - Uhh...Covenant I think
Best Space Machine:
Covenant - Giant cruisers, a fleet of millions, and a massive city
Empire - The Death Star
Winner - Empire. Come, on, seriously.
Ground Vehicles:
Covenant - Wraith tanks, Banshees, Ghosts, and Scarabs
Empire - AT-STs, AT-PTs, and the Mighty AT-ATs
Winner - Empire. Just cause AT-ATs are sweet.
Infantry Units:
Covenant - Grunts, Jackals, Drones, Elites, Hunters, and Brutes
Empire - Stormtroopers. LOTS of Stormtroopers
Winner - Covenant, Stormtroopers die too easily.
Biggest Blunder:
Covenant- Can't kill a singular super-soldier who destroys their sacred ring
Empire - Built a thermal exhaust port that would convienintly destroy their best weapon
Winner - Tie. They're both retarded in that sense.
Evil Leader:
Covenant - Prophet of Truth; betrayed the Elites to fulfill the Great Journey
Empire - Emperor Palpatine; exterminated all of the Jedi to maintain power.
Winner - Empire. We all know the Emperor would kill you for no reason. Plus he's got lightning.
Coolest Warrior:
Covenant - The Arbiter; a Covenant holy warrior, kill the Brutes.
Empire - Darth Vader; Lord of the Sith, chokes people.
Winner - Empire. Darth will always win.
And the winner, with 4 to 3, is the Galactic Empire!
What do you think? Please share your thoughts.
Overall Size:
Covenant - Massive fleets, numbering in the thousands
Empire - Dozens of ships, millions of fightercraft
Winner - Close, but I think the Covenant get this one
Years in Existence:
Covenant- Eons upon eons of history
Empire - Two whole decades
Winner - Uhh...Covenant I think
Best Space Machine:
Covenant - Giant cruisers, a fleet of millions, and a massive city
Empire - The Death Star
Winner - Empire. Come, on, seriously.
Ground Vehicles:
Covenant - Wraith tanks, Banshees, Ghosts, and Scarabs
Empire - AT-STs, AT-PTs, and the Mighty AT-ATs
Winner - Empire. Just cause AT-ATs are sweet.
Infantry Units:
Covenant - Grunts, Jackals, Drones, Elites, Hunters, and Brutes
Empire - Stormtroopers. LOTS of Stormtroopers
Winner - Covenant, Stormtroopers die too easily.
Biggest Blunder:
Covenant- Can't kill a singular super-soldier who destroys their sacred ring
Empire - Built a thermal exhaust port that would convienintly destroy their best weapon
Winner - Tie. They're both retarded in that sense.
Evil Leader:
Covenant - Prophet of Truth; betrayed the Elites to fulfill the Great Journey
Empire - Emperor Palpatine; exterminated all of the Jedi to maintain power.
Winner - Empire. We all know the Emperor would kill you for no reason. Plus he's got lightning.
Coolest Warrior:
Covenant - The Arbiter; a Covenant holy warrior, kill the Brutes.
Empire - Darth Vader; Lord of the Sith, chokes people.
Winner - Empire. Darth will always win.
And the winner, with 4 to 3, is the Galactic Empire!
What do you think? Please share your thoughts.
In a military clash, there would be no contest. Empire would own the Covenant. However, in stability the Covenant takes the first place, even if the treason of Truth did cause a civil war within the Covenant. The Empire was short-lived and collapsed when its leaders perished, allowing the New Republic to take their place. Anyway, military-wise the Old Republic, Galactic Empire and New Republic form some kind of a contiuum. I think the military power of that combined history peaked in the Clone Wars at the time of the six movies. Sith Wars probablt caused even more military action.Yes, you are correct. In a such vast galaxy, empires, political organizations, corporations, nations, planets, cultures, races can come an go in the blink of an eye, without the rest even noticing. In fact, there are places where the Empire (or of the Old Republic, for that matter) is not known of (the nebula beyond Nar Shadda, as an example). The only constant in SW is, no matter how far and remote, there's always someone wagin war on some other one. An external threat would do nothing else than bring together the biggest factions so that they can repel the common foe and go back to their fighting.
Mixing universes is fun and pointless.We all are a little bit "nerdish" around here... so who cares? :D
And then, they could build TWO of them.Since we're including the Expanded Universe, make that three Death Stars [not including the Darksaber] plus dozens of smaller superlaser-carrying vessels. Not to mention a wide variety of Tarkin-inspired superweapons ranging from the World Devastators to the Sun Crusher, and lets not forget our old friend the Galaxy Gun; with the power to destroy a planet anywhere in the Galaxy without even having to go within 10,000 lightyears of it. The Covenant tactician who thought up "glassing" would have wet dreams about these weapons, and the Empire already has them, so it's pretty game-set-match if you ask me.
Let me make a few corrections...QuoteOverall Size:
Covenant - Massive fleets, numbering in the thousands
Empire - Dozens of ships, millions of fightercraft
Winner - Close, but I think the Covenant get this one
The Empire has a fleet of 25000 Star Destroyers. That's in Canon universe. Add to that a indefinite number of support crafts, fighters, transport barges, navigation buoys, ecc.... You get the idea. That's far from the "dozens of ships". By VERY far.QuoteYears in Existence:
Covenant- Eons upon eons of history
Empire - Two whole decades
Winner - Uhh...Covenant I think
Yes, true. Although the Star Wars Galaxy has been around for a long time too. Plus, as time passes, vast empires tend to become opulent, corrupt and generally decadent: that has happened in our history many many times. Plus, if you remember correctly, that's the very reason why the Empire was born in the first place. So, I'd say, in general, a "younger" organization is by far better: you can react faster and don't have the burden of a too spread out burocracy.QuoteBest Space Machine:
Covenant - Giant cruisers, a fleet of millions, and a massive city
Empire - The Death Star
Winner - Empire. Come, on, seriously.
And then, they could build TWO of them.QuoteGround Vehicles:
Covenant - Wraith tanks, Banshees, Ghosts, and Scarabs
Empire - AT-STs, AT-PTs, and the Mighty AT-ATs
Winner - Empire. Just cause AT-ATs are sweet.
That's the only thing i don't like about SW. Yes, AT-ATs are a sight to fear on a battlefield (and in that they suit Moff Tarkin's Terror Doctrine). But still, blasting away a planet's resistance from orbit is far more efficient. The only reason the Empire used AT-AT in the Battle of Hoth was because Darth Vader wanted to capture prisoners. Otherwise, they would have been blasted long before that.QuoteInfantry Units:
Covenant - Grunts, Jackals, Drones, Elites, Hunters, and Brutes
Empire - Stormtroopers. LOTS of Stormtroopers
Winner - Covenant, Stormtroopers die too easily.
Unless you can clone them = pretty much infinite "supply". And, last time I checked, the Stormtroopers where the elite among infantry. So, the majority of the engagements where dealt with by Marine Infantry, not by Stormtroopers.QuoteBiggest Blunder:
Covenant- Can't kill a singular super-soldier who destroys their sacred ring
Empire - Built a thermal exhaust port that would convienintly destroy their best weapon
Winner - Tie. They're both retarded in that sense.
Oh well. That's because you need a story and some sort of gameplayability... Immagine Halo if the Covenant overwhelmed you 10000000/1. That wouldn't be fun, would it?
And, btw, there's one small difference. At the end of "The Empire Strikes Back", the Empire is actually WINNING against the Rebels. They are scattered off and hiding. A whole year passes before they can get back to action (in the Novelization of ROTJ, the actual time is six months, but I think we can agree that the dates we see in the movies count here). There's no such thing in Halo, at least, that I can remember. Master Chief is always on the Edge, never backing.QuoteEvil Leader:
Covenant - Prophet of Truth; betrayed the Elites to fulfill the Great Journey
Empire - Emperor Palpatine; exterminated all of the Jedi to maintain power.
Winner - Empire. We all know the Emperor would kill you for no reason. Plus he's got lightning.
Uhm. If you say so :)QuoteCoolest Warrior:
Covenant - The Arbiter; a Covenant holy warrior, kill the Brutes.
Empire - Darth Vader; Lord of the Sith, chokes people.
Winner - Empire. Darth will always win.
Oooooh yes :DQuoteAnd the winner, with 4 to 3, is the Galactic Empire!
What do you think? Please share your thoughts.
So, I'd probably say the Covenant have NO chance. Not even in a long term attrition war.QuoteIn a military clash, there would be no contest. Empire would own the Covenant. However, in stability the Covenant takes the first place, even if the treason of Truth did cause a civil war within the Covenant. The Empire was short-lived and collapsed when its leaders perished, allowing the New Republic to take their place. Anyway, military-wise the Old Republic, Galactic Empire and New Republic form some kind of a contiuum. I think the military power of that combined history peaked in the Clone Wars at the time of the six movies. Sith Wars probablt caused even more military action.Yes, you are correct. In a such vast galaxy, empires, political organizations, corporations, nations, planets, cultures, races can come an go in the blink of an eye, without the rest even noticing. In fact, there are places where the Empire (or of the Old Republic, for that matter) is not known of (the nebula beyond Nar Shadda, as an example). The only constant in SW is, no matter how far and remote, there's always someone wagin war on some other one. An external threat would do nothing else than bring together the biggest factions so that they can repel the common foe and go back to their fighting.QuoteMixing universes is fun and pointless.We all are a little bit "nerdish" around here... so who cares? :D
I dunno 2083 and a third dozen, says dozens to me.... lots and lots of dozens <this IS a joke>
the borg would beat both anyhow, and of course all would be defeated by 8472, it'd take a few smashed up cubes to adapt, but once that was over and done with
jeez, I would love to see the deathstar assimilated.... borg sphere..... many x l
I dunno 2083 and a third dozen, says dozens to me.... lots and lots of dozens <this IS a joke>
the borg would beat both anyhow, and of course all would be defeated by 8472, it'd take a few smashed up cubes to adapt, but once that was over and done with
jeez, I would love to see the deathstar assimilated.... borg sphere..... many x l
I knew somebody was going to bring them up... let's stop it right now. :) You don't want to get me started on the whys and why nots the Borg too don't stand a chance against the Empire.
The covenant has tons and tons of troops itself, but those troops aren't clones, they are troops enough to at least be able to think for themselves, and then something in the works of a civil war could happen because someone had a difference of opinion or believed in something else.I can tell that you don't understand a lot about Halo and the Covenant from the way you wrote that. The Covenant did have a civil war, and yeah, it was partly because of a difference in opinion. However, it stands that you would probably need five or more Stormtroopers to take down a single Elite. :doubt:
The covenant has tons and tons of troops itself, but those troops aren't clones, they are troops enough to at least be able to think for themselves, and then something in the works of a civil war could happen because someone had a difference of opinion or believed in something else.I can tell that you don't understand a lot about Halo and the Covenant from the way you wrote that. The Covenant did have a civil war, and yeah, it was partly because of a difference in opinion. However, it stands that you would probably need five or more Stormtroopers to take down a single Elite. :doubt:
Meh. The Chozo would beat everyone else... including the Krikkets. The hard part about that is actually getting the Chozo to fight... the most blatantly invincible alien race ever conceived and they happen to be pacific... go figure. :doubt:The Magog would own all. They have an indestructable world ship with a trillion magog, several planets link together, and a star in the middle. Plus the Abyss stopping anything from destroying it. Now what could beat that?
(...) Now what could beat that?
Meh. The Chozo would beat everyone else... including the Krikkets. The hard part about that is actually getting the Chozo to fight... the most blatantly invincible alien race ever conceived and they happen to be pacific... go figure. :doubt:The Magog would own all. They have an indestructable world ship with a trillion magog, several planets link together, and a star in the middle. Plus the Abyss stopping anything from destroying it. Now what could beat that?
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn! Iä! Iä! Chthulhu fhtagn...
:lol:
I dare you to say that 3 times fast... :p
But still leave daddy out of it! ;)
I dare you to say that 3 times fast... :p
But still leave daddy out of it! ;)
I apologize for bring up an old topic up, but its better I dont clog this place up with a topic like this again. Anyways, disclaimer out of the way, the Empire wins, because of their better Warships(C'mon, you think anything in the Covvie arsenal can take down the Executor...Oh ****, not the fighters!), and better ground armor. Oh, and the Dark Troopers. So, there ya go, anybody what to ask me about this post, and i'll go in specifics. :)
\I apologize for bring up an old topic up, but its better I dont clog this place up with a topic like this again. Anyways, disclaimer out of the way, the Empire wins, because of their better Warships(C'mon, you think anything in the Covvie arsenal can take down the Executor...Oh ****, not the fighters!), and better ground armor. Oh, and the Dark Troopers. So, there ya go, anybody what to ask me about this post, and i'll go in specifics. :)
Straight up? Covenant cruiser can take down the Executor. :p Engagement ranges, son, engagement ranges. The Executor isn't effective out to 150km.
Covenant are cool. They control the Halos which are far more powerful than the Death Star, the Death Star II, the Galaxy Gun, the World Devastators OR the Sun Crusher.Dark Troopers, son. Let's see:
The Empire sucks. Come on, those 'elite troops' Palpatine sends down to the shield generator in ROTJ are defeated by primitives who throw rocks and stones. :doubt:
Oh, and a few Elites could probably kill every Stormtrooper on the Death Star (I mean how can a smuggler, a desert rat, an old guy, a princess and two droids stand up to 1,000,000 stormtroopers? Huh?).
Too bad Kyle Katarn had something to say about that.D'oh! I forgot about that![inpresonation=Vader] NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm still fighting the urge to add Snuffleupagus ;)Indeed :D
Seriously though, it's hard to say, if you put the whole 'tech-blurb' to one side, the Covenant excel at groud assault, the Empire rely far more heavily on space-based systems.
Thing is, if you look at the Empire as having been beaten by 'An old guy, 2 droids a kid and a smuggler', then you are looking at it as a movie, in which case you could say that the Covenant can be beaten by a 14 year kid who wouldn't even have to stand up to do it, after all, it's a computer game.
In 'reality' the Clone Troopers were far more dangerous than depicted, mainly because they were totally loyal, that was how they were designed. Just as the Covenant of the Cutscenes in Halo are 'different' from the ones you face in-game :)
It's all really academic anyway, two totally different universes and all, but still interesting to think about ;)
...You-Tube, ...LOL :lol:
The Covenant certainly has far more inspired ship design.Because Star Destroyers were soooooo old hat in 1977. :rolleyes:
The Covenant certainly has far more inspired ship design.
The Covenant certainly has far more inspired ship design.And yet , arent really anygood against an enemy with ADVANCED weapons. NEXT!
I actually like the 'function over form' design of Star Destroyers to be honest, those sloped sides give the widest possible firing arc for the entire front hemisphere guns, at the cost of making it a large, poorly defended target from the back. There was never a moments doubt what this ship was designed to do ;)Imperial classes still IMO look better than Covnate ships
Ah being an old SW junkie I'll make thee comments...This debate should take place at the height of both powers, well... power. Which should be Halo 1 and ROtJ, respectivly BTW, that was a really good post, there. :)
1. The clone troopers as seen in Ep 1-3 (evil razzlefrazzin GL)
did have independent minds of their own and sought to have
some individualistic character to themselves. My evidence?
Thrawn Trilogy and the other books containing sleeper cells
of clone troopers.
2. A lot of this would have to depend on what point of the Empire's
timeline you are picking as the point they would go up against the Covanent...
At one time, yes, they did have multiple SSD command ships as well as numerous
other defense platforms, 3 Dstars (creation ability), the other Sun Crusher-esque ships.
The Eye of Palpatine, and numerous smaller vessels, not to mention alien plagues meant
to wipe out entire races.
But - most of this was not ready all at once, it was built in secret over time. Plus you have to factor
in that the Rebel Alliance did break them apart with the simple loss of Palpatine. Then spent the next
10 years cleaning up the warlords and portions of the Imperial Remnant before the truce. The Galactic
Alliance did have a sizable navy at the start of the NJO, including new Calamari Cruisers that could
rival SSD's due to the upgrades (if I remember that right). They also had at minimum, 3 captured SSDs...
The Guardian, Lusankya, and one other - which I'm thinking was part of the Black Fleet or something.
Might have to check the technical commentaries at the Force.net and the Wiki...
3. As to ground forces, I'd be willing to say the Covenant would likely win on the ground in
hand to hand or because of their walker units. The hand to hand though you'd just end up with
more stormtroopers dead per 1 elite. However, what's the Empire known to do... much less the Sith
before them? Bombard a planet from space until it's no longer inhabitable... But to invade a planet, you have
to control the space around it - otherwise you will be slowly cut off from support and eliminated. The same goes
for supply routes/hyperspace routes and planetary trade/manufacturing.
But there's my EU ten cents worth on the matter...
I apologize for bring up an old topic up, but its better I dont clog this place up with a topic like this again. Anyways, disclaimer out of the way, the Empire wins, because of their better Warships(C'mon, you think anything in the Covvie arsenal can take down the Executor...Oh ****, not the fighters!), and better ground armor. Oh, and the Dark Troopers. So, there ya go, anybody what to ask me about this post, and i'll go in specifics. :)
Straight up? Covenant cruiser can take down the Executor. :p Engagement ranges, son, engagement ranges. The Executor isn't effective out to 150km.
Straight up? Covenant cruiser can take down the Executor. Engagement ranges, son, engagement ranges. The Executor isn't effective out to 150km.
Stormtroopers rule!
Especially the Republic Commandos ;7 Master Chief? Meh - they would eat him for breakfest
Empire has turbolaser batteries of 200 gigatons....And those are just medium batteries, too.
Couldn't Star Desytroyers just jump in close to the Covenanat ships? That negates any range advantage whatsoever.Pretty much. Also, ngtm1r, the 200 GT weapons come from the AOTC:ICS for the Acclamator, a ****ing trasport. Given the fact that a Imperial class Star Destroyer has 60 of those batteries, and its a ship that appears 23 years in the future, isent safe to say that a ISD has way more firepower than a simple transport. And besides, it was an asteroid field, engage ment ranges will be borked royally
But would that giant-ass Ion cannon do **** to a super star destroyer? Or at least less of an effect?QuoteStraight up? Covenant cruiser can take down the Executor. Engagement ranges, son, engagement ranges. The Executor isn't effective out to 150km.
I think they are slightly less than 150km, but I'm not sure, I do know the Rebels had an Ion cannon that certainly seemed to have no problem with vast ranges. but it's not unknown for Assault Gunboats and other Hyperdrive ships to make a H-Jump that precise, And even Lambda shuttles can be pretty nasty if they manage to get the torps away.
You'll always be left with unknowns though, like what effect would an Ion cannon have on Covenant shields? For things like that, you'll always be left in the realm of guessing. ;)
You've been reading Stardestroyer.net again, that argument's been conclusively fried here before. (Hell, the article sd.net quotes for support says something different itself.)Canon Nazis my ass, they cant even make realistic guns. (literaly, I should be able to spray BLAKE, my name into a wall from two warthogs away, with the SMG, but can you? No, more-than likely not.
Star Destroyer main battery broadside power output is in the kiloton range. How do we know this?
Watch Empire Strikes Back. Asteroids. 'Nuff said. Given the movies the engagement range is pathetically short, only a few dozen kilometers at best. The only other sources, the games and books, seem to agree with this in general. While they have proved able to strike from orbit effectively, this does not require a range much in excess of, say, 100km.
The Covenant have ships capable of engaging at ranges of 350 kilometers on in. Ref. Fall of Reach, among others. There was another ship capable of much more distant engagment ranges mentioned in the same book. (It's worthwhile to remember that as far as canoncity values goes, the Extended Universe for SW loses out to the movies while the books stand equal to the games in regards to Halo. Bungie are greater canon-nazis then any other creator group ever, and I must admit an admiration for that.)
Star Destroyer main battery broadside power output is in the kiloton range. How do we know this?
Watch Empire Strikes Back. Asteroids. 'Nuff said. Given the movies the engagement range is pathetically short, only a few dozen kilometers at best.
The only other sources, the games and books, seem to agree with this in general. While they have proved able to strike from orbit effectively, this does not require a range much in excess of, say, 100km.
The Covenant have ships capable of engaging at ranges of 350 kilometers on in. Ref. Fall of Reach, among others. There was another ship capable of much more distant engagment ranges mentioned in the same book. (It's worthwhile to remember that as far as canoncity values goes, the Extended Universe for SW loses out to the movies while the books stand equal to the games in regards to Halo. Bungie are greater canon-nazis then any other creator group ever, and I must admit an admiration for that.)
While they have proved able to strike from orbit effectively, this does not require a range much in excess of, say, 100km.
A circular geosynchronous orbit in the plane of the Earth's equator has a radius of approximately 42,164 km (from the center of the Earth) or approximately 35,786 km (22,236 statute miles) above mean sea level.
Given the rapid orbital decay of objects below approximately 200 km, the commonly accepted definition for Low Earth Orbit is between 200 - 2000 km (124 - 1240 miles)[1][2] above the Earth's surface.
****in-A thanks for that post
*delurks*
Star Destroyer main battery broadside power output is in the kiloton range. How do we know this?
We know otherwise, AOTC: ICS. Or simple calculations by Saxton.QuoteWatch Empire Strikes Back. Asteroids. 'Nuff said. Given the movies the engagement range is pathetically short, only a few dozen kilometers at best.
The only other sources, the games and books, seem to agree with this in general. While they have proved able to strike from orbit effectively, this does not require a range much in excess of, say, 100km.
The EU NJO series says otherwise, both SBS and Destinys ways have combat forces engaging at insane ranges.QuoteThe Covenant have ships capable of engaging at ranges of 350 kilometers on in. Ref. Fall of Reach, among others. There was another ship capable of much more distant engagment ranges mentioned in the same book. (It's worthwhile to remember that as far as canoncity values goes, the Extended Universe for SW loses out to the movies while the books stand equal to the games in regards to Halo. Bungie are greater canon-nazis then any other creator group ever, and I must admit an admiration for that.)
Ah, but the movies only stand superior to the books when the books are in contradiction, the books are free to offer their own viewpoints and add to the verse. In this case specifically, if the books says ranges can be as far as they want, ASLONG as the movies do not say 'our max range is 55 meters' they do not contradict each other.