Hard Light Productions Forums
General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: Jeb Hoge on December 17, 2006, 10:22:51 pm
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Being a dad of a toddler, I don't tend to get that much time to sit and play, but it doesn't mean I can't print and read FS Wiki entries. I had been poring through the FS2 weapons database and remembered something about the MX-64 that I'd read (how it was a good tool for intercepting bombs), and how I'd somewhat accidentally blasted the forward beam cannon off of the NTC Maelstrom with a barrage of MX-64s. So, I started paying more attention to the humble heat-seeker, and realized...
This is a great missile. It's got a range of 1900m, no lock-on and decent off-boresight firing (if the target is just out of your forward view, you probably will still get a track), and rapid re-fire. Eight missiles knock down any turret on the Cain, which is nice because you can start to engage turrets on a long-distance attack run, and in a bomber like the Ursa, each missile bank holds twenty MX-64s, so two banks gives you the chance to engage a bunch of turrets on a single run if you start at max range.
I would imagine that on a more nimble and speedy fighter, you could use the MX and the B key to target and hit quite a few bombs without necessarily having to get visual on them and then get the gun over. That's something I'll have to practice. But try viewing it as an alternative to the Stiletto II that can't get shot down. I like it!
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The wiki does not have weapon entries. It also absolutly does not have one on the MX-64. Just wondering why you mentioned this at the front of your post. Either, the MX-64 is eaisly the best Fire and Forget missle in the game. I still like aspect syncing missles and bombs better (although flying a bomber is more difficult).
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http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Weapons_Database
Maybe we're talking about two different things, but this is the Freespace Wiki Weapons DB.
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<3 the Rockeye.
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The rockeye was probably the most popular TvT weapon in the PXO days (although harpoons would have been better if they weren't generally unavailable). A barrage of rockeyes is surprisingly difficult to shake off and the heat seeking ability is very useful at close ranges. I rarely use them in singleplayer missions though since you can't carry many of them; a full load of rockeyes will deal out much less damage than one of tempests or harpoons.
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I have no idea why searching the wiki for Weapons, FS2 Weapoms, and MX-64 yielded no results.
Perahps the search is broken. Thanks for the link.
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I found the long range very useful in Surrender, Belisarius!
Not for actually killing NTF fighters so much as approaching the Belisarius, shooting it with a few rockeyes and then retreating away to bag an extra 400 points and a Deimos kill on the first mission :D
Given that it's probably more points than you can earn for the rest of the mission that makes it very much worthwhile to do :D
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I always used all Tempests in that mission, put power to engines, and got most of the Hercs and a Deimos to boot
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In nebular missions, the Rockeye can actually help you find the enemy! Use the infinite weapons cheat and fire around. Some of them will lock onto a target, just keep firing in that direction and you will eventually run into something. Useful in Mystery of the Trinity.
PS You killed the Beli?
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The retail version (it might have been fixed in open) ignored beam damage when deciding who had done the most damage to a ship. So it looked at the Belisarius and found that the damage I had done to it with my rockeyes was greater than anything else done to it and gave me the kill.
Ever wondered why you end up with a Sathanas kill to your name in High Noon? :D
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rockeyes are a bit difficult, trust me i know :D. i preferr harpoons. stronger homing, more manoverable, faster and bigger explosion. ive only ever killed 4 enemy fighters and 3 turrets with rockeyes, compared that to harpoon, ive killed well over 250,000 fighters and over 5,600 turrets.
as for that what i said trust me; well. ive fired well over 25,000 rockeyes and over half of these missles miss thier target, so i got stuck in situations with the wrong missle. in some cases i have to dig out of reserve when i have 1% health and more enemies incoming.
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rockeyes are a bit difficult, trust me i know :D. i preferr harpoons. stronger homing, more manoverable, faster and bigger explosion. ive only ever killed 4 enemy fighters and 3 turrets with rockeyes, compared that to harpoon, ive killed well over 250,000 fighters and over 5,600 turrets.
as for that what i said trust me; well. ive fired well over 25,000 rockeyes and over half of these missles miss thier target, so i got stuck in situations with the wrong missle. in some cases i have to dig out of reserve when i have 1% health and more enemies incoming.
:confused: How do you fire 25,000 rockeyes but only get 4 kills? I get that many kills in the first mission (not including primary fire) with less than 20 missilses!!
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By..... using the cheats to give himself infinite rockeyes, and firing blindly in a nebula for hours on end?
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lol, dont you use your brain? my basis is all on the, fs2 missions in the main campaign.
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I think I get more than 4 Rockeye kills just by playing "Surrender, Bellisarius" two-three times. It's a nice missile, what with not requiring a lock and all, you just need to know how to use it.
Specifically, you have to realise that due to the way it tracks its target you can't use it when there's a high angular velocity between you and the intended victim, so a bit more effort to get a good firing position is needed. Of course, anyone who has fired 25.000 Rockeyes probably knows this... or at least, should.
In my opinion, the biggest downside to the Rockeye is their size and somewhat limited power; you simply can't carry as many of them as you can Harpoons and at the same time it takes more of them to down a target, something which can become a serious issue in several of the longer missions. For those reasons I do prefer the Harpoon, but nonetheless the Rockeye is by no means as useless as 4 kills from 25.000 missiles would suggest.
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so be it, i have vast experience on this space stuff. thanks to alot of people who give info without thinking, but my view is my view, and yours is yours, so why the conflict of interest? because im trying to help you understand that you dont think to see that other people no matter how hard they try, cant work the rockeye out. and as im being me, my immediate concern is waiting for the next attack from aldo or some person like thatto happen. anyway now you know about the rockeye so you dont get ideas.
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Um. I'm fairly certain I understand english, but I'm having one hell of a hard time deciphering what you just said. Well, apart from the first line, which was fairly obvious in it's arrogance. A hint about that, by the way: Mostly everyone here has a lot of experience with "this space stuff", so you might want to think twice before accusing anyone who disagrees with you in the slightest of not thinking. I imagine it'll make your stay much more pleasant in the long run.
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Heheh...I gave up on him long before he got to "this space stuff".
Anyway, points of view can be fun, don't you think?
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The retail version (it might have been fixed in open) ignored beam damage when deciding who had done the most damage to a ship. So it looked at the Belisarius and found that the damage I had done to it with my rockeyes was greater than anything else done to it and gave me the kill.
It was changed to count beam damage shortly after the source was released but then reverted back, as it was affecting the scoring too much. I remember there were some arguments over this back then.
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Its nice aginst fighters and bombers. Aginst larger targets, the Stiletto II is a better fire and forget. But the payload is of course lower, and so is the range it can track at.
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lol, dont you use your brain? my basis is all on the, fs2 missions in the main campaign.
and as im being me, my immediate concern is waiting for the next attack from aldo or some person like thatto happen. anyway now you know about the rockeye so you dont get ideas.
:rolleyes:
I'm not saying nuffing.
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This thread just makes me wish for a new homing system - one that can be fired-and-forgotten (like a Rockeye), but chases the target in a much better fashion (like the Harpoon) as opposed to heat-seeking methods. I find that heatseekers get defeated by countermeasures way too easily (although I have no complaints about it - it's fine as it is).
It'll come in most useful for a faction-specific weapon (one with super-high technology for a trait)... kinda stuck on that right now... :sigh:
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How about someone mod a Rockeye that never stops homing and never gives up? Y'know, a feel-good weapon for the summer.
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Uhh, that's too much I guess... :lol:
Probably cut down on range or something, in return for that homing type? Hmm...
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This thread just makes me wish for a new homing system - one that can be fired-and-forgotten (like a Rockeye), but chases the target in a much better fashion (like the Harpoon) as opposed to heat-seeking methods. I find that heatseekers get defeated by countermeasures way too easily (although I have no complaints about it - it's fine as it is).
It'll come in most useful for a faction-specific weapon (one with super-high technology for a trait)... kinda stuck on that right now... :sigh:
To be fair, the whole thingy with the seeking is to make people use the more 'skillfull' locking missiles. Don't think you need a new homing system, though, just tweak the variables for speed et al so it's harder to decoy.
Uhh, that's too much I guess... :lol:
Probably cut down on range or something, in return for that homing type? Hmm...
:) Well, I'd tend to have a short range weapon with high speed and accuracy for that type; as in you need to get in close to use it effectively, retaining the skill aspect and making (hopefully) for lots of tight dogfights. Of course, you'd need to still differentiate it from the dumbfire missiles, which are themselves sort of close-in weapons (through necessity).
The only thing is, how could you tell the player what's effective range?
EDIT; I much prefer aspect seekers myself, though. They go PING.
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This thread just makes me wish for a new homing system - one that can be fired-and-forgotten (like a Rockeye), but chases the target in a much better fashion (like the Harpoon) as opposed to heat-seeking methods. I find that heatseekers get defeated by countermeasures way too easily (although I have no complaints about it - it's fine as it is).
Errr... $Homing: (http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Weapons.tbl#.24Homing:) and check the optional +Seeker Strength: option. So you can enhance the homing ability (and spoofing of) of the missiles if you want to.
Edit: About the effective range... How about setting missiles to require lock before they can be fired and then setting weapon range less than what the velocity x lifetime is?
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Yeah, during my playtesting in getting one of my missiles to hit, I did take a peek at the +Seeker Strength: although I haven't used it yet.
I don't really have a preference on seekers, :lol:
Hmm... just when I thought I had an idea on autolocking aspect seekers, I realise that giving it firing time delays (Not including reload delays or $Fire Wait:) almost equates it to a regular aspect seeker... only difference is time delay as opposed to pixels moved - if the target moves out of view for x seconds, then the countdown to lock restarts? And maybe put "No Dumbfire" in the weapons entry so that it can't just be fired off randomly?
:doubt:
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Aginst larger targets, the Stiletto II is a better fire and forget. But the payload is of course lower, and so is the range it can track at.
The one problem that Stiletto II has is that it's vulnerable to counterfire...that was one element of my testing that I wanted to verify. Fired against a full-strength Cain from long range (1700+), the Stiletto doesn't make it to the target. But if you lead off with a few barrages of 64s, then the Stiletto can find a hole. BTW, I had a pretty closeup view at one point of a Stiletto impacting a missile launcher...very nice hit, took a chunk out of the thing.
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stilleto II are nice. btw to clear this english thing up, where you people located, im certain its different english. american english and british english.
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I think I get more than 4 Rockeye kills just by playing "Surrender, Bellisarius" two-three times. It's a nice missile, what with not requiring a lock and all, you just need to know how to use it.
Specifically, you have to realise that due to the way it tracks its target you can't use it when there's a high angular velocity between you and the intended victim, so a bit more effort to get a good firing position is needed. Of course, anyone who has fired 25.000 Rockeyes probably knows this... or at least, should.
In my opinion, the biggest downside to the Rockeye is their size and somewhat limited power; you simply can't carry as many of them as you can Harpoons and at the same time it takes more of them to down a target, something which can become a serious issue in several of the longer missions. For those reasons I do prefer the Harpoon, but nonetheless the Rockeye is by no means as useless as 4 kills from 25.000 missiles would suggest.
Indeed. In my campiang I made Rockeyes twice as smaller and a tad more powerfull. Now they are actually very usefull missiles.
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so be it, i have vast experience on this space stuff. thanks to alot of people who give info without thinking, but my view is my view, and yours is yours, so why the conflict of interest? because im trying to help you understand that you dont think to see that other people no matter how hard they try, cant work the rockeye out. and as im being me, my immediate concern is waiting for the next attack from aldo or some person like thatto happen. anyway now you know about the rockeye so you dont get ideas.
Um...the rockeye is a good weapon. We didn't learn anything from you about it. As to the "vast experiance," either your rockeye statement was an extreme exaggeration and you constantly play on insane level and shoot off rockeyes crazily, or you have absolutly no experiance in the field of "this space stuff." 100 Rockeyes should be at least 20 kills, so "25,000" should be at least 5000, not four.
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Dude, I think part of his english involves multiplying any number he types out by at least 15.
Anyways, to actually contribute, I still find Rockeyes best in the early nebula missions, or any nebula mission without an AWACS in it. Missions that might use that freaky EMP stuff, like in the mission where you rescue snipes, rockeyes are a must. You'll lose targeting and lock when you're hit by the EMP storm.
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How would one go about making them smaller for their own use? I'd be using them a lot more if I could carry more. They take up so much space in my missile bays, I tend to just go with Harpoons or something, even in EMP Nebula missions. I've never been good with the Rockeye. Then again, a lot of how I fight is high-deflection, diving-from-above style strikes, and the Rockeye doesn't perform well there.
I'd probably love it, 'cause I see the merits of it (such as no lock on; what a beautiful aspect of the missile) if it was smaller and if it meshed better with my personal tactics. Then again, we can say that for every weapon ever, I bet. *cough*
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Anyways, to actually contribute, I still find Rockeyes best in the early nebula missions, or any nebula mission without an AWACS in it. Missions that might use that freaky EMP stuff, like in the mission where you rescue snipes, rockeyes are a must. You'll lose targeting and lock when you're hit by the EMP storm.
QFT
Does anyone remember the FS2 Demo... where the Tornadoes sucked and the Rockeyes were the only missiles you had that actually did anything? That was fun.
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:o if only rockeyes where SO DAMNED HUGE, you could own anything with them....i meen, 5 ROCKEYES IN ONE MIRMADON MISSLE BANK!? common. that holds like 20 harpoons. making harpoon half the size.
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Harpoons are 2.5 units in size, Rockeyes are 4 Comparison Chart (http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Weapon_Comparison_%28FS2%29)
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:o if only rockeyes where SO DAMNED HUGE, you could own anything with them....i meen, 5 ROCKEYES IN ONE MIRMADON MISSLE BANK!? common. that holds like 20 harpoons. making harpoon half the size.
The myrmidons secondary banks aren't all that huge... and they can't even carry the harpoon, IIRC.
And why is the Harpoon#weak bigger than the Harpoon?
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i would be more concerned on how you would know that :wtf: and i don't meen by looking at the chart, by actually finding that out.
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i would be more concerned on how you would know that :wtf: and i don't meen by looking at the chart, by actually finding that out.
Presumably he read the chart as well :p