Hard Light Productions Forums
General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: Snail on December 20, 2006, 08:24:43 pm
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The GTVA Colossus was originally created to repulse a second Shivan invasion comparable to the first Shivan attack during the Great War. However, it turned out it did a great job handling the Neo Terran Front. However, when the Shivans attacked it was pushed back by the Sathanas, which may be seen as a failure.
The Colossus has many 'variants', as the default loadout for the Colossus concists of TerSlashes and BGreens, while the Colossus during High Noon is armed with LRBGreens and BFGreens (well sort of).
However, it should be noted that the Colossus was never made to battle ships of its own size, it was only designed to battle superdestroyer scale ships. It was seemingly capable of destroying smaller ships such as destroyers easily, which was what it was made for.
It could be said it also failed at fighting destroyers, evidenced by its battle against the SD Beast in Their Finest Hour, a mission which made many people doubt the Colossus. In that mission, it was disabled and damaged, meaning it was quite obviously at a disadvantage.
So, the Colossus, Terran juggernaut, hit or miss?? ;)
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It was constructed with the sole purpose of elimentating destroyers and SDs. It worked very well on that matter. Looking at the reactor capacities, it appears that it wasn't designed for prolonged battles, or maybe it was and did suck at it.
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The Colossus was okay, it served its purpose, but that purpose could have been fulfilled equally well by, say more destroyers / corvettes.
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The Good: Power of Five Orions
The Bad: Why not just use Five Orions?
The Ugly: Took 20 years and millions of dollers to build. While it is assumable that five orions would be the same:
A. More shipyards could assist. The Colossus Was Top-Secret
B. Newer Destroyers could be developed. A replacement to Orions? Slow, but steady. A replacment for the Colossus? Not even possible.
C. In a battle vs. Sahathans, 4 Orions go down. Last one escapes. 4/5 of the cost of the Colossus.
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C. In a battle vs. Sathanas, 4 Orions go down. Last one escapes. 4/5 of the cost of the Colossus.
Have you actaully tested that theory?
More Orions would escape if they attacked from the Sathanas's rear section, only one beam gun back there.
IMO, the Collossus would do MUCH better if the GTVA would wise up to the fact that it is very stupid to attack a Sathanas from the front, where 95% of its firepower is located!
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The collosus destroyed one sathanas and many ntf forces. Thats alot seems like a success to me. The only reason it was destroyed is because it diobeyed orders.
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nah, who want that ship at 5% Hull... at that position it should be declared unrepairable and retired from service :P
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It was at about 65% iirc
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The Colossus was created specifically to destroy the Lucifer, a task at which it excels. Load up High Noon in FRED and replace the Sathanas with a Lucifer, then fire up FreeSpace, and you'll see. Whoever wrote that Derelict command briefing didn't know what he was talking about -- the Colossus easily pwns the Lucifer.
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Whoever wrote that Derelict command briefing didn't know what he was talking about -- the Colossus easily pwns the Lucifer.
I think that was more for atmosphere, like implying that the Sathanas would reap havoc on GTVA systems even though she had been neutered of most of her weapons in Gamma Drac.
Back OT: It's important to remember that the Colossus was more than just a warship, it was a symbol of Terran and Vasudan teamwork and the very values behind the GTVA itself. From what we can gather from the campaign, morale throughout all corners of GTVA space would have been vastly improved at the first deployment of the Big C, and relations between the two species would have undoubtedly been vastly improved through the cooperation of creating the great warship.
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The Colossus did what it was designed to do, and did it very well. In the end it was lost because it was asked to do something it wasn't equipped for. It succeeded. The failure if there was one lay somewhere back at the drawing board, or inside the rather dense head of GTVA Command.
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Whoever wrote that Derelict command briefing didn't know what he was talking about -- the Colossus easily pwns the Lucifer.
I think that was more for atmosphere, like implying that the Sathanas would reap havoc on GTVA systems even though she had been neutered of most of her weapons in Gamma Drac.
Back OT: It's important to remember that the Colossus was more than just a warship, it was a symbol of Terran and Vasudan teamwork and the very values behind the GTVA itself. From what we can gather from the campaign, morale throughout all corners of GTVA space would have been vastly improved at the first deployment of the Big C, and relations between the two species would have undoubtedly been vastly improved through the cooperation of creating the great warship.
Yeah, I noticed in Derelict that all of the Shivan capital ships were presented as much more powerful than they really were. In the mission where you gaurd the Cipher 100 kilometers away from a BOE type battle for instance, the Shivans not only pawn everyone, they pawn everyone in 5 seconds, and in the mission where you take down the three cruisers, the Lilith stands a good chance of taking out a Hecate. (I know the Hecate isn't that good, but it's better than that usually)
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OK. For clarity, yes the colossus did what it was designed to do very good. Except for something that was not great at all. The colossus was meant to take on shivan ships that the gtva has already encountered. That means demons, liliths, cains, lucifers. Pretty much any ship that was encountered during the tv war only. Of course the colossus more than fares well against molochs and demons, and would fare great against a lucifer. But yes, the damn thing was sure not anywhere in hell meant to take out a sathanas, or a ravana for that matter. Those are the shivans pinnacles of technology right there. The demon isn't a very good destroyer need i mention, or at least someone should fred a mission showing off the demons potential. The ravana on the other hand has something very much in common with a sathanas, which is those forward firing arms. After that, well the ravana is just damn powerful, and pretty huge also. A ravana was still pretty big even when sitting next to the colossus. So keep in mind, the gtva didn't do a good job of possibly expecting new shivan vessels. They were ready for lucifers and demons when they built the colossus, not ravanas and sathani.
So, in my head the colossus was a bullseye. It worked great against any ships the shivans had to offer that were encountered in the end of the tv war, and only a couple of new ships which are the shivan vessels that are all smaller than destroyers. So yes, the colossus was a bullseye there, but not for the new big shivan **** :D
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C. In a battle vs. Sathanas, 4 Orions go down. Last one escapes. 4/5 of the cost of the Colossus.
Have you actaully tested that theory?
More Orions would escape if they attacked from the Sathanas's rear section, only one beam gun back there.
IMO, the Collossus would do MUCH better if the GTVA would wise up to the fact that it is very stupid to attack a Sathanas from the front, where 95% of its firepower is located!
I hate that reasoning; do you really think the Shivans aren't aware of that achilles heel in their design, and are incapable of using tactics to overcome it?
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Well who knows what mindset the Shivans have, perhaps they designed it to utterly punch through the front lines with escorts following it. A job it's great at, but caught off guard or push too far ahead it puts itself in a bad situation.
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Well who knows what mindset the Shivans have, perhaps they designed it to utterly punch through the front lines with escorts following it. A job it's great at, but caught off guard or push too far ahead it puts itself in a bad situation.
I'd actually anticipate the Shivans tasking other ships to support it and cover that blind spot, anyways; I always found the notion of the first Sath being deliberated sacrificied to draw out the GTVAs best weapons (and tactics against it) to be quite an interesting one - particularly as any race able to use a vessel that size, in that way, would naturally be seen as incredibly powerful.
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Well who knows what mindset the Shivans have, perhaps they designed it to utterly punch through the front lines with escorts following it. A job it's great at, but caught off guard or push too far ahead it puts itself in a bad situation.
I think that's the Shivan approach overall, though...attack with overwhelming force and no consideration to the attack not succeeding. I think most of their ships are designed to that philosophy.
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shivans are created on the sole purpose for absoutle genocide. thier cataprace and the very thick armour of the sj proves that, more over thier beams were designed with the intention of killing everything, im sure they know thier weak points, im certain that their are alot of shivans in the galaxy; so even the shivans on one sj thats about 5 shivans, due to their multiple eyes and arms for weapons and ship control plus 30 shivans for military purposes.
back ot: the collossus is a miss for me. it s got some major drawbacks i mean even lilith destroyed this ship! albeit over 40 minutes. this ship cant stand up to too many ships; example i started a grudge match 16 aeolus cruisers vs 1 collossus (not edited) and 13 aeolus survived and the collossus died within 15 minutes.
if it cant handle that then its a piss poor SCap ship imho.
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Next time, try to beam-free the Colossus when you run that last scenario. Oh, and it sucks because a Lilith can kill it in 40 minutes? I guess every ship in the game sucks then, as the only one that is as durable is the Sathanas.
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shivans are created on the sole purpose for absoutle genocide. thier cataprace and the very thick armour of the sj proves that, more over thier beams were designed with the intention of killing everything, im sure they know thier weak points, im certain that their are alot of shivans in the galaxy; so even the shivans on one sj thats about 5 shivans, due to their multiple eyes and arms for weapons and ship control plus 30 shivans for military purposes.
back ot: the collossus is a miss for me. it s got some major drawbacks i mean even lilith destroyed this ship! albeit over 40 minutes. this ship cant stand up to too many ships; example i started a grudge match 16 aeolus cruisers vs 1 collossus (not edited) and 13 aeolus survived and the collossus died within 15 minutes.
if it cant handle that then its a piss poor SCap ship imho.
I don't see how a ****ing juggernaut can be destroyed by a cruiser with one high powered beam cannon. With TWELVE beam cannons, the Colossus has a near 360 degree field of fire. And your mission with the 16 Aeolus class cruisers is absurd. 16 Aeolus-class cruisers is total overkill, and you seem to have failed to realized that an Aeolus has VERY powerful beams. Factor in 16, and you have a moot point. (Can someone give him the think then post title? :D)
The Colossus' hull integrity in High Noon went down to 85 (if you were an idiot and couldn't destroy the forward cannons) is due to the fact that the Colossus seems to be able to fire two beams at a time, while the Sathanas could fire four cannons for at least 5 seconds, and the BFGreen has a very long fire rate.
Bullseye for me.
Next time try to beam-free the Colossus when you run that scenario.
Busted. :D
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I wouldn't call the beams on the Aeolus powerful. In fact, I'd call them lousy. 45 second refire delay is a killer.
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The Aeolus's beams are near the worst in the game :nervous:
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Even if Colossus was desinged to mass-extermination of Lucifers, it fails even with this. Single coordinated Shivan attack even without Sathanases could bring it down (remember Lucifers have got five beams, three of them able to take down destroyer in one shot, but with huge fire wait). I think the biggest Colossus' flaw is fighterbay. These 250 fighters seriously limits its fighting abilities. Another problem is main AC firepower concentrated on boards. It decreases firepower concentrated on one target twice. GTVA made lots of mistakes during reconstruction and primary one are new capital ships that are universal. Capships must be specialised. If I'd desing Colossus, I'd give it four powerfull front beam cannons plus 50 MSes and some TerSlashes for defence. In theory after overload it'd be able to take down Lucifer per shot (and one shot per minute), Sath would require only two. :drevil:
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As I recall, the lucifer only has two beams in all. That goes for both FS1 and FS2, only the FS1 variant being a lot more powerful as it was needed as a plot device. I doubt the FS2 version could kill a Colossus even if there were five of them.
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WEll lets just take it ithis way.
No ship is invincible. No ship is all powerfull. The fact that the Collie got so damaged at thye hands of a Ravana is beyond me. I mean come on how many braodside cannons does the Collie have? No matter how you look at it the Collie has more armour more beam cannons to target at one single target so the huge amount of damage done by the Ravana is beyond me.
However the idea of the shivans actualy luring out the Collie seems like a very interesting idea since that would sugest they were actualy afraid of it and even if they were not afaraid of it they sure as hell recognized it as a serious threat to them. This also leads me to the idea of a whole fleet of Collie awaiting the shivans in thery mind right around the corener. But back OT The Collie while powerfull was a jack of all trades. I mean is was a carrie and a decent one at that altough i do think more fighters could of been put in its hulls. It had a huge amount of firepower and a huge amount of HP but with all these things it couldn fire all of its beam cannons at once. This sugests me the Collie was designed so it could take out any enemy destroyer in one voley and take out Lucyfers in 2 maibe 3 voleys. They should of let the reactor design part to the Vasudans since they seem a lot better at it then the terans.
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IMHO, the Colossus was nice for one thing:
1. Watching the MASSIVE explosion when it's destoryed ;7
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Whoever wrote that Derelict command briefing didn't know what he was talking about -- the Colossus easily pwns the Lucifer.
The Nyarlathotep had 2 BFReds and 3 LReds IIRC, the Lucifer in FS1 was completely impervious to the attacks at the time. Whichever Lucifer the briefing is referring to, it has a massive advantage over the Colossus. The FS1 version because it has an enormously powerful shielding system, which Harbingers can't scratch in addition to 800,000 hitpoints, and the Nyarlathotep has far stronger weaponry.
Either way, I'd back the Lucifer to win every time.
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The Nyarlathotep had 2 BFReds and 3 LReds IIRC, the Lucifer in FS1 was completely impervious to the attacks at the time. Whichever Lucifer the briefing is referring to, it has a massive advantage over the Colossus. The FS1 version because it has an enormously powerful shielding system, which Harbingers can't scratch in addition to 800,000 hitpoints, and the Nyarlathotep has far stronger weaponry.
Either way, I'd back the Lucifer to win every time.
The Lucifer in FS1's shields are rendered moot by beam cannons, of which the Colossus has many.
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Although the campaign isn't really considered canon or close to it, like derelict or the others are, The Marco Polo (Colossus class) was an awesome ship and kicked alot of ass in Revenge:Final Conflict.
That is, if you can understand the translated text. And Warfare Alpha ? Now that is an awesome Juggernaut class ship.
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The Nyarlathotep had 2 BFReds and 3 LReds IIRC, the Lucifer in FS1 was completely impervious to the attacks at the time. Whichever Lucifer the briefing is referring to, it has a massive advantage over the Colossus. The FS1 version because it has an enormously powerful shielding system, which Harbingers can't scratch in addition to 800,000 hitpoints, and the Nyarlathotep has far stronger weaponry.
Either way, I'd back the Lucifer to win every time.
The Lucifer in FS1's shields are rendered moot by beam cannons, of which the Colossus has many.
Not if you mod the FS port to have beams :D
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Using SSLBeams on the Lucifer is precisely what I did in my modified High Noon mission.
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Although the campaign isn't really considered canon or close to it, like derelict or the others are, The Marco Polo (Colossus class) was an awesome ship and kicked alot of ass in Revenge:Final Conflict.
That is, if you can understand the translated text. And Warfare Alpha ? Now that is an awesome Juggernaut class ship.
IIRC the Marco Polo was a beefed-up, fine-tuned version of the Colossus.
If the Colossus was the prototype, then the Marco Polo was the production model. [/analogy]
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Well who knows what mindset the Shivans have, perhaps they designed it to utterly punch through the front lines with escorts following it. A job it's great at, but caught off guard or push too far ahead it puts itself in a bad situation.
IMO i think it doesnt really matter that the SJ's have a blind spot on their rear, f they really wanted to obliterate a ship, they would have sent the whiole 90 of them in, and NOTHING could stand up to that. Wherever one has a blind, another Sath would be able to cover it :P
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The Good: Power of Five Orions
The Bad: Why not just use Five Orions?
The Ugly: Took 20 years and millions of dollers to build. While it is assumable that five orions would be the same:
A. More shipyards could assist. The Colossus Was Top-Secret
B. Newer Destroyers could be developed. A replacement to Orions? Slow, but steady. A replacment for the Colossus? Not even possible.
C. In a battle vs. Sahathans, 4 Orions go down. Last one escapes. 4/5 of the cost of the Colossus.
Actually, the Colossus was about the size of three or four Orion-class destroyers, with "more firepower than five Orion-class destroyers." I don't understand how multiple shipyards would help any more than they probably already did; building parts to order and warping them to a central area to be assembled. Though the Colossus is a surprise to the player and their wingmen, and classified Level Rho, its existence was almost certainly known to the GTVA General Assembly, and to the numerous contractors involved in its production, including Nankam Aeronautical, Mesa Corp, Mekhu Enterprises, Johnson Munitions, RNI Systems, Triton Dynamics, Subach-Innes, the Akheton Corporation, Snapka\Flegel, and many more companies which were judged to be of too little importance to be listed in a readable font size. Add that to the mentioned benefits of morale, and the fact that the Colossus is almost indestructible and a sign of progress, and you've got yourself one heck of a justifiable project.
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The Orion was more than 12 times the size of a Lucifer class destroyer, volume wise anyhow
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Wasn't the Colossus damaged not onyl from combat, but from Sabotage??? So a true analysis can only be run in FRED, NOT the original mission.
Plus I agree, overall it was OK, but it was designed to combat KNOWN threats during the construction period (meaning FS1 Shivans)...
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C. In a battle vs. Sahathans, 4 Orions go down. Last one escapes. 4/5 of the cost of the Colossus.
Sathanas > 5 orions
There was a huge flamewar debate about this a while ago. The Sathanas side won, IIRC.
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sath can take down atleast 10 before it fell victum
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The Sathanas is invulnerable to BGreens so, I would assume it would survive.
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more than that. i tried that and it didnt work.
bottom line its impervious to orions.
but the collssus isnt so fortunate i used the same orions agains the collossus because the collossus main guns are on the side of the ship it made it extreamly difficult and out of the 10 orions only 3 survived.
on another note my RTD Gumble(GTD Hades) destroyed a sath(sj) in no time, it took the RTC Xander(GTC Aeolus) atleast 4 minutes to down the sath.
(an earlier attempt, i removed that vasudan ship in a later attempt, guess the sath didnt see that one coming!)
(http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/2971/1jt1.png)
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The only part of the aeolus you see from that distance is it's beam flare up :lol:
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Tiny cruisers armed with uber massive beam turrets! That'll be enough to have the shivans wet their pants :lol:
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The Colossus was very good, but it was bad used... the Colossus cant fight a Sathanas from the front...
But, if the Colossus jump in at a side from the Sathanas, them the Sathanas have no choice, jump out or will be destroyed.
Personally, the era of the "super big ships" is over. Just Imagine a Rakshasa which 3xLRed, instead of the 3xSRed...
LOL, 3 or 4 of that ship will own everything, same for the Aeolus.... LOL A Deimos which 4 Forward Beams XD!
But build only ship which firepower on front is a mistake... you need both of them.
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The Orion was more than 12 times the size of a Lucifer class destroyer, volume wise anyhow
I dont know why they said that, the Lucy is very long, not 12 times smaller than the Colossus. Idiots.
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One Luci in the "nose" section of Colie, at least 3 (maybe even 4, or 5 if someone is skilled) could fit in it's main part, two into the engine section, and at least one in the rest. This gives us about 9 Lucy's, though I think that if somebody would break the L into very small parts and fill with them the Colie's hull, 12 Lucifers would fit in it. Though it would take quite some time to check it, frankly.
Well, the Colossus wasn't supossed to be a ship to fight new threats. As somebody already said it, the only problem laid in the drawing boards, where designers didn't think that the Shivans could bring, bigger, nastier ships than before.
Also, the only known fights involving Colossus and the Sathanas are really tacticless. Collie should have waited further into the system for the Sath, and warp in on its side, bring most of his firepower while avoiding Sathanis foward beams.
Oh, and why do you think that Volition gave the Lucy the SReds ? Maybe the GTVA's scientists were able to annalyze the beam pattern/whatever and produce far more effective armor, reducing the Luci's beams effectiveness dramatically ?
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The Orion was more than 12 times the size of a Lucifer class destroyer, volume wise anyhow
I dont know why they said that, the Lucy is very long, not 12 times smaller than the Colossus. Idiots.
I just now noticed I said "The Orion" :D
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At least its not the GTVA Colossal, made from the parts from 12 Lucifer class superdestroyers. :lol:
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(http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/1930/1st5.png)
the result against the RTC. collossus couldnt even destroy this tiny cruiser because of its massive blind spots.
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Thats what I saying... Arm a Rakshasa which 3xLRed on forward... them find a ship that can destroy it :P
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actuallyou look at the timer at the bottoom right, you will see that the collossus went down very quickly. so to cut a long story down, the RTC Xander had 2x modifed BFRED turrets
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Ugh what is up with people and their cruisers with rigged OMGWTFBBQSALAD beams? :doubt:
If you play on medium, the Colossus can actually take down up to 4 Orion destroyers. Try it.
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Indeed. Haven't we already had one thread recently where someone decided to compare home-made uberships to canon designs as if they were on equal ground? Ended rather badly, as I recall. No need to get into that here as well.
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collossus couldnt even destroy this tiny cruiser because of its massive blind spots.
i think you failed to notice this piece of info, not the picture.
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That piece of info doesn't even matter, because a cruiser or corvette in its right mind will never be anywhere near a juggernaut.
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Not to mention the Colossus, when using non custom-uberships-of-doom at least, can take out a cruiser (save, perhaps, the Lilith) with flak and blob turrets alone. It doesn't need beams, so their blind spot is a moot point.
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Look what 4 rakshasas which 3xLReds each can do... hell even 2 can do it too...
(http://i17.tinypic.com/2rnwx8n.jpg)
(http://i11.tinypic.com/4igrn82.jpg)
I hope that the Shivans never noticed that if their mount LReds on the Rakshasas that "Light Cruiser" will own everything :P
[attachment deleted by admin]
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loool. i like i like :D.
but seriously though, never put a shivan sj up against a collossus, the chances are the latter will loose without too much taken from the sj.
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That's like saying that if a foot soldier has a portable nuclear weapon, he'd be more powerful than any old tank column.
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Well, he probably would be... :nervous:
If you ignore the fact that he'd probably die in the detonation of his own weapon.
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the tank can kill him and his nuke, a nuke sitting there wont do anything. in this case its the sath that has the power not the man(you never said anything about it having electronics, so for all i know its an empty shell of a nuke :nervous:).
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I think the "weak Colossus" arguments, and I'd say the gameplay as a whole, falls apart once you start rearming ships to suit your BFG9000 preferences. Just like using weapons cheats to give a Perseus a Shivan super laser makes the game really funny for a few minutes, then it gets boring.
Having said that, the tactics that the Colossus captain uses against the Sathanas are inexplicable. However, history is loaded with examples of ship captains with serious firepower just doing dumb things.
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You can be sure of that, the Colossus own any Sathanas from the sides.
The Shivans are focusing in puting all firepower on front, that is a mistake, a huge one, you need small ships which firepower on front, like the Rakshasa, the Lilith which her LRed, the Aeolus and Deimos, the Sobek... anyway, but larger ships need to have massive firepower to cover all sides. The Colossus just need better reactors and get rid of all of the Laser turrets, and reemplace him by anti-fighters and anti-warship beams.
The Colossus is just too big to have any use of the laser turrets... well all laser turrets are a little obsolete.
The GTVA need to remove the laser turrets, improve the reactors and place beams and more flaks on its ships.
The point is, you actually NEED ships which firepower on all sides, and also firepower on front, and them you need smaller ships which much firepower on front(Aeolus), and other one which mostly of the firepower on front and also firepoer on sides(Deimos), the Deimos just need to have 4 forward beam turrets, their just need to reemplace those laser turrets for anti-fighter beams, or anti-warship. and add 1 anti-warship turret on each side.
For me, the Terrans have better ships, just need a little work on them. The Shivans commited a big mistake on making ships only which firepower on front(Sathanas, Rakshasa, Ravana)... what their are planing for? just make hit and run missions? Well I have no idea on know to considerate the Cain, Liliths and Moloch, their can fire on front and sides too, just which a limited angle. The Demon can fire on sides and front too, if the ship is biger enoght (those 2 laser turrets on the front of the Demon are very good to put another 2 LReds, but that will make the Demon even more powerfull than the Ravana.
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The Colossus is a mean customer. In the mission wheree it perishes it usually doens't fire even a shot since the Sath jumps in just outside it's beam cannon range and the Collie doesn't move.
I moved the Sath a bit closer so it actually comes in range of most ofh te Collies weaponry.
When I re-played the mission the Colossus was pulverized, but managed to take the Sath with him with it's final beam salvo before atomization :D (and don't forget that the Collie starts damaged!)
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So basicly that means that the Collie was in fact a better shipthen the Sath right???
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Why not use the long-range beams instead of moving the ships?
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Becoause moving the Sath 500m closer is more fair than giving the Colossus uber beamz of death.
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THat's true if the normal variation do NOT have a long-range version. (I just check and they infact do not have the long-range version.)
Sorry; you're right; moving it 500m closer is more fair then changing out the beams.
The Big C really needed better beams... -.-
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GTVA could successfully make another colossus then. But they should make dumb**** contingency plans for jugs. Like if the jug is going to be destroyed, have the damn thing always warp out. The GTVA only had one of them, and needs to treat in such a way. Well, the gtva already does this, just the captain was a dumb**** and didn't want to warp out. Idk why the collie had to get destroyed in that mission from a defiant captain, i mean, it's not like the sath is going to make it to your position with the rest of the friendlies in that mission any time soon :lol:
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GTVA could successfully make another colossus then. But they should make dumb**** contingency plans for jugs. Like if the jug is going to be destroyed, have the damn thing always warp out. The GTVA only had one of them, and needs to treat in such a way. Well, the gtva already does this, just the captain was a dumb**** and didn't want to warp out. Idk why the collie had to get destroyed in that mission from a defiant captain, i mean, it's not like the sath is going to make it to your position with the rest of the friendlies in that mission any time soon :lol:
The issue is, even if the Colossus had had good beams, there's only one of it, and 80+ Sathani, it would be better to come up with several destroyer sized Monitors which sport one huge, Jug killing beam, so that they could deal with more Jugs faster.
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hi,
nice discussion, but i think we miss here something.
then thats is a game and in my opionen, if you ask was the colossus a fault or wasnt succeed i think you have to take a second look: the atmosphere.
i mean as i saw that the colossus die, it was a shock (with a nice sad explosion).
but if you have 300 or 3000 other ships, thats not the same, i mean how many smaller ships do you lost in the campaine, a lot.
yeah its hurt if you lost a ship but not so much if you lost so an unique, important and big ship.
there not die only a ship, there die the hope, too.
maybe 3000 smaller ships are better, technical, but for a game and the atmosphere itsself, i think one big ship are better.
to the technical: i didnt think thats its a completly fault.
so a great ship have a good moral effect and its a good blocker, can handle greater problems and can serve as a mobile space station.
but i think the only one really fault its the repair.
they build so a great ship but the repairing technical isnt good enaugh to bring it with light damage back to 100% in a no time.
i mean 80% opertional but serverl months for the completly repair? thats madness.
thats a battleship and not a sature in a museum.
its build to take damage and its build to fight enemies.
so i think, its was to early for the colossus or a ship with that size and complexness.
Mehrpack
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Hello. Please play this battle of endor mission. :)
Colossus default loadout vs. 8 Orions default loadout
Colossus usually looses but takes many Orion down with it.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Why use 5 Orions? You're bound to lose at least one or two if not three or four. Using the Colossus instead means you have a far bigger chance at preserving your investment as, even if it's on 1% hull integrity, it survives. Past experience in FS1 and 2 has shown the GTVA can repair terminally damaged capital ships between missions.... so it's much, much wiser. :D
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Colossus got pawned by 8 Orions. Remove one Orion it wins by a (unsafe) margin.
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Those missions are never really accurate, there's too many variables, and the AI sucks.
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Like if the jug is going to be destroyed, have the damn thing always warp out.
Even if it's disabled and unable to jump like the Colossus was? :rolleyes:
The fact is that the mission was screwed over by what are probably last minute changes. The colossus was disabled and the other ships had their beams locked. Whatever outcome :v: originally had planed was probably lost in those changes too.
Personally I would have prefered it if the mission should have ended with the colossus bravely turning to face the Sathanas while everyone else had to jump out. We should never have seen the Colossus destroyed.
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The least they should have done for the Big C was let it take down that Sathanas and then be destroyed... much more fitting due to the fact that the final salvo from the Big C is said to take down the Sathanas...
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Personally I would have prefered it if the mission should have ended with the colossus bravely turning to face the Sathanas while everyone else had to jump out. We should never have seen the Colossus destroyed.
But then we'd never see the SPLITTING EXPLOSION of the thing dying, and then holding back the tears and jumping out. :(
Actually there were many waypoints and everything for the Colossus before dying. Even one called 'deathpoint'.
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Mine was disabled from the Demon I think...
The first time I played through the mission (in OEM, i went into Multiplayer) I had a messed-up loadout... I was going to help the Collie by destroying one of the Sathana's beams... I never quite got that far. I ended up simply sitting there and watching the battle... I coulda made it if I woulda put power to engines and just afterburner there... it was some 15km I think.
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Ugh, I destroyed the Saths beams on one of my first run-through's, and guess what? Sat there for about 30 minutes on x4 before the timer died (or was it me?). :doubt:
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On which mission? The final mission?
Did you make the mistake on disabling the wrong ship? if you did that then (as you prolly kno) Capella never goes supernovae.
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Uuugh, yes there was only one colossus, and there was many saths. But, this is what happens when you venture into new kinds of shipbuilding...you start out with one ship until more can be built. I'm just saying preservation of the colossus should be dire until more are built, after that preservation should still be dire. That's one of the things the gtva was using the colossus for was to strike fear into the ntf, that jugg was unbeatable, and will eat your destroyer for lunch, and it does that. After that keep the damn ship alive and kicking, well, the only thing the enemy sees is a very possible situation where that jugg will come back and rape them up the ass, because if you do it right, you can make the colossus seem to the enemy as a ship that can never be destroyed and be extremely feared. The enemy would just be like, holy ****, that damn thing just keeps coming back!
But yes, when you start a new daunting ship design you start out with one of that type of ship until another is to be built, the colossus is effective and could use some minor tweaks, as well as the hecate class destroyer needing some minor tweaks(there's only a few of those in fs2 because they're new). In retrospect if the gtva made another colossus it would be better, serve it's purposes even better, survive better, and be applicable. The gtva shouldn't shy away from juggernaut designs because they've had one designed. I'm sure in the 20 years it took to build the colossus they've figured out ways to speed up and more streamline the construction of another juggernaut class vessel (20 years to build a vessel, you will figure out different and better ways to build something that your building for the first time a second time). So the next time the gtva would build a juggernaut, it would be built in a faster time period from previous experience and learning what to improve upon building time, and it would obviously be more powerful, it might not be as strong though. Look at the hecate, it's like a disposable destroyer compared to an orion (it's like those disposable cameras you buy at the store). If the gtva could make a disposable juggernaut, that would be quicker to build, but not as strong armor as the colossus. Even a disposable juggernaut built in less time than the colossus, would still be a match, and an enduring ship, and you could get more of them out there faster. I'm not saying sathanas fleet, i'm saying like maybe 5 juggs.
After that, think of the other usefulness of a juggernaut could do. If the colossus hadn't been fighting ntf, i'd send that ship into the unexplored nebula. Like what people said, it's like a mobile installation, it'd be great for exploration. It has tons of fighters, good firepower for destroyer size vessels and for juggernaut size vessels if a game plan is devised, it has a lot of people, it's big, and not weak like hecate. Juggs for exploration purposes could leave home systems and not need to come back for a long time (juggs for longterm exploration). That's my view if juggs aren't only going to be offensive.
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A destroyer would suffice as an exploratory unit.
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Mars, Mars, Mars, always crushing peoples ideas and turning them into nothingness...
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Mars, Mars, Mars, always crushing peoples ideas and turning them into nothingness...
Sooooooooorrrrryyyyyyyyy....
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GTVA needs Homeworld ship building tech :drevil: :lol:
Colossus scale ships aren't that hard to do... their just heavy cruisers :D
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A destroyer would suffice as an exploratory unit.
hi,
i dont really think so.
why?
we know anywhere lure the shivans outside the GTVA space and i think if make an really deep space exploration, its really possible to encouter shivans.
a normal destroyer alone doesnt have really a chance, and will destroy it the first encounter or will hunt really fast down, but a small fleet with a ship of the sice of the colossus have maybe a chance and can make it back in one or two pieces.
yes i know, its not a guarantee that so an exploration fleet will survive a meeting with the shivans, but i thinks its higher as with a ship with normal size.
and you have a higher chance to get the gathering informations back to the GTVA.
the next thing is: modifications.
i think a greater dock, that allow maybe corvettes or destroyer to repair on that exploration, and/or a smallmanufacturing facility to rebuild weapons, ammo or fighters will help in a deep space operation too.
ok the only problem is the supply for so a big group.
energie, materials, food and maybe water.
in my opionion its a nice idea to think about it.
Mehrpack
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Okay, in FS2 it was like this:
Hey, look Shivans. Let's get them out of Gamma Drax. Let's look at the portal. What's on the other side of the portal? Oooh, look cruisers. Hey, a destroyer. Whoa, d00d, a Sath. Run away. We pawned the Sath. We so cool. We go back to Nebula. OMFGWTF 80 SATHS! Run! OMG WE SUX0R. CLOSE GATE. Job done.
Next it would be more like this:
Hey, look Shivans. Let's not be idiots and leave the portal open.
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Okay, in FS2 it was like this:
Hey, look Shivans. Let's get them out of Gamma Drax. Let's look at the portal. What's on the other side of the portal? Oooh, look cruisers. Hey, a destroyer. Whoa, d00d, a Sath. Run away. We pawned the Sath. We so cool. We go back to Nebula. OMFGWTF 80 SATHS! Run! OMG WE SUX0R. CLOSE GATE. Job done.
Next it would be more like this:
Hey, look Shivans. Let's not be idiots and leave the portal open.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
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GTVA needs Homeworld ship building tech :drevil: :lol:
Colossus scale ships aren't that hard to do... their just heavy cruisers :D
That would be crazy. Imagine, a fleet of seven colossus in twenty minutes. Man, kudos to all the mothers from HW. Must be breeding like crazy... not even fun when you do that much of it so fast... Or would it be?
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GTVA needs Homeworld ship building tech :drevil: :lol:
Colossus scale ships aren't that hard to do... their just heavy cruisers :D
That would be crazy. Imagine, a fleet of seven colossus in twenty minutes. Man, kudos to all the mothers from HW. Must be breeding like crazy... not even fun when you do that much of it so fast... Or would it be?
From the sounds of it, its mostly automated....
OK I'm bored or nerdy LOL.
It takes the mothership to build a heavy cruiser (colossus) in 7 minutes [this is assuming the heavy cruiser is a mere 6km long and not 12km] 2.8 minutes for a destroyer [assuming it's 2km, could be 3km?], 1 minute for a frigate (let's assume these are the size of FS2 corvettes for sake of argument), 18 seconds for a fighter, 20 for bomber.
So 7 colossus in 49 minutes (under an hour) along with 17 orion and 49 corvette escorts and about 226 fighters (this is assuming a newly built orion doesn't start producing fighters itself, with an excel spreadsheet, as soon as a cap ship (non-corvette/frigate) comes online it starts producing fighters, it'll have 2,029 fighter as soon as the 7th colossus comes online)
But just imagine once they got into the nebula... look at all those resources :eek2:
Build a capship production facilities there, resource like mad, start spitting out orion scale ships by the dozens, that should handle the first sathanas
Have the facility keep building more ships and start creating more facilities
it shouldn't take long to produce 80+ colossus (one facility could do it in 9 hours, along with 200 orions, 560 frigates, and a ungodly 261, 628 fighters)
Lets assume it's a day between the first contact of the santhans and the appearance of the 80 santhans.
In one day there'll be 205 colussus, 513 orions, 1439 frigates and *gulp* 1,726,356 fighters :jaw:
if they eventually build 4 building faculties, by the time those 80 santhanas jump in, their going to be overwhelm :eek2: theres not going to be enough room for the shivans even :lol:
Edit: ok overwhelmed isn't even the word.... pure OWNAGE.
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That's actually how I imagined the Shivans themselves build their ships. ;)
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add Homeworld's R&D tech to the bunch... even without Alpha 1, the shivans might as well evaculate the galaxy, anything they throw at them will be quickly countered with. Big massive cap ships would have a hell of a time with super acyolates not to mention they might even throw their own super giants against it.
or form an aliance with the GTVA, that would definetley help against the Nightmares (or whatever the shivans might be fighting)
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how many salvage corvettes would it take to hijack a Sathanas fleet ? :p
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We don't know if the Shivans are fighting against another species. Besides, the GTVA having that sort of building tech is completely out of the question, I think the Shivans already have that tech. We don't know if the Sathanas fleet was their entire arsenal. You know what I'm getting at (*cough* Gargant Fleet *cough*) ;).
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in the ordinary hw it took 5 to tow away supercap ship and a carrier, so about 7 salvettes if you can attached them w/o being shot down(a little luck).
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FreeSpace 2's damage values are actually pretty messed up IMO. The TerSlash, which is almost as big as the Aeolus itself, cannot destroy it.
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GTVA needs Homeworld ship building tech :drevil: :lol:
Colossus scale ships aren't that hard to do... their just heavy cruisers :D
That would be crazy. Imagine, a fleet of seven colossus in twenty minutes. Man, kudos to all the mothers from HW. Must be breeding like crazy... not even fun when you do that much of it so fast... Or would it be?
From the sounds of it, its mostly automated....
OK I'm bored or nerdy LOL.
It takes the mothership to build a heavy cruiser (colossus) in 7 minutes [this is assuming the heavy cruiser is a mere 6km long and not 12km] 2.8 minutes for a destroyer [assuming it's 2km, could be 3km?], 1 minute for a frigate (let's assume these are the size of FS2 corvettes for sake of argument), 18 seconds for a fighter, 20 for bomber.
So 7 colossus in 49 minutes (under an hour) along with 17 orion and 49 corvette escorts and about 226 fighters (this is assuming a newly built orion doesn't start producing fighters itself, with an excel spreadsheet, as soon as a cap ship (non-corvette/frigate) comes online it starts producing fighters, it'll have 2,029 fighter as soon as the 7th colossus comes online)
But just imagine once they got into the nebula... look at all those resources :eek2:
Build a capship production facilities there, resource like mad, start spitting out orion scale ships by the dozens, that should handle the first sathanas
Have the facility keep building more ships and start creating more facilities
it shouldn't take long to produce 80+ colossus (one facility could do it in 9 hours, along with 200 orions, 560 frigates, and a ungodly 261, 628 fighters)
Lets assume it's a day between the first contact of the santhans and the appearance of the 80 santhans.
In one day there'll be 205 colussus, 513 orions, 1439 frigates and *gulp* 1,726,356 fighters :jaw:
if they eventually build 4 building faculties, by the time those 80 santhanas jump in, their going to be overwhelm :eek2: theres not going to be enough room for the shivans even :lol:
Edit: ok overwhelmed isn't even the word.... pure OWNAGE.
yeah but... their going to use the credits cheat? because i didt think that will be enoght asteroids in the galaxy to build that hahaha.
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take into account that in time alot can change so the shivans might still own, dont be so sure and even if the collossus armada pushed back the sj's, no doubt the shivans will have a new weapon impervious to any collossus attack and probably some sort of uber beam.
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We don't know if the Shivans are fighting against another species. Besides, the GTVA having that sort of building tech is completely out of the question, I think the Shivans already have that tech. We don't know if the Sathanas fleet was their entire arsenal. You know what I'm getting at (*cough* Gargant Fleet *cough*) ;).
The problem with homeworlds R&D is they can learn about new tech way too quickly. One research person is probably smarter than all of the GTVA scientists :lol:
"The enemy is using super juggernaught capital ships, research says they can develop a hull structure for super juggernaught, we recommend research immediately"
"Research complete... super juggernaught hull structure complete"
"Research indicates it can now develop a super juggernaught capital ships, we recommend research immediately"
"Research complete... super juggernaught shisp are now available for buliding"
"Commension super juggernaught construction"
[10 minutes latter]
Super juggernaught complete
;)
yeah but... their going to use the credits cheat? because i didt think that will be enoght asteroids in the galaxy to build that hahaha.
Do we have any idea how much resources are there in a supernova? Also mine entire planets :lol:
take into account that in time alot can change so the shivans might still own, dont be so sure and even if the collossus armada pushed back the sj's, no doubt the shivans will have a new weapon impervious to any collossus attack and probably some sort of uber beam.
Also don't forget even if we loss some of the collossus, new ones will be coming online quickly to take its place, and that uber beam will quickly be replicated and quite possibly upgraded by R&D and if they can fit that uber beam to a smalller ship like a specialized orion :eek2:
Their like the borg only on scale much worse, they actually learn and upgrade :nervous:
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"Shivans are using a Super-Dooper-Mega-Whooper-Big-Mac Hive ship, R&D says we can make a SDMWBMH structure."
"Sir, we've run out of asteroids."
"WTF?"
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'Nothing but pebbles here....'
'Then mine the damn pebbles!'
;)
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But, yeah colossuses for long range deep space exploration. Aside from being powerful, they're like mobile installations, and the colossus is already tons better than an arcadia based on how many ships it carries. With that many ships it houses on board they could send out fighters on several recon missions simultaneously. Not to mention it's a good bet that the colossus does carry other ships besides fighters.
The idea about huge ships on long range missions into unknown territory isn't so far fetched, i mean there's already a show about it called bsg :lol:
Aside from requiring jump nodes to go to other systems, the colossus could randomly warp to another part of a system it's already in which the bsg does all the time in the same star system or randomly warping to other systems. The only difference is that the colossus wouldn't be warping to other systems without the use of a jump node, after that idea, who says the colossus could be stopped at a blockade to a node? Unless you have a couple of ravana's or saths, that takes a lot of blasting still to destroy the colossus, the colossus could make it through some serious blockades and still be alive if not lightly, to heavily damaged.
Something that seems to me is that gtva really should do some exploration, they've been at their home systems for the past 30 years. Or are they too afraid they will find shivans in every unexplored node?
At least gtva has a way to close nodes after a skirmish with the shivans after exploring an uncharted node.
I wonder if the colossus has cargo bays?, or if cargo bays are part of the massive fighter bays on ships, probably that. In the future of gtva, meson powered bombs, even the big ones, i don't see why those couldn't be refined to be storable on ships for closing node missions.
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Galactica is smaller than an Orion, it's 1414 meters long and 555 meters tall Battlestar Wiki (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Galactica_type_battlestar)
Once again, bigger is not always better, especially given the task of exploration.
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Those are the shivans pinnacles of technology right there.
... or are they? :nervous:
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cough GARGANT cough
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yeah but... their going to use the credits cheat? because i didt think that will be enoght asteroids in the galaxy to build that hahaha.
Do we have any idea how much resources are there in a supernova? Also mine entire planets :lol:
You could build the entire GTVA fleet + the whole Sathanas fleet just on Earth alone. It's a BIG planet ya know...
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yes but big ships would be even better on their own :D