Hard Light Productions Forums
Community Projects => The FreeSpace Upgrade Project => Topic started by: Huggybaby on January 06, 2007, 12:54:38 pm
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It would be awesome if we had a benchmarking routine we could run, like they have with Quake, DOOM, and the like. You change your settings, run a preset scene, and get a result with min, max, and average frames per second.
Well, it WOULD be awesome.
Barring that, I'd like to know:
Which settings have the most effect on visual quality, and which the least.
Which settings have the most effect on frame rate, and which the least.
And what might be the best compromise.
The goal is to derive specific guidelines for new users who want to tweak their systems, without spending so much time doing so that they don't end up playing as much as they should. Like me.
This topic will complement my other topic on visual quality (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,44434.msg907015.html#msg907015) screenshots.
You have your video card settings, like Anisotropic Filtering and Antialiasing, and you have your game settings, pictured below. Both are entirely relevant.
I will most likely remove some of the settings below (like "Disable Music") once they are deemed irrelevant.
FS2 SCP uses OpenGL, NOT Direct3D. As such, it's even more important that you have the latest video card drivers installed. From my signature:
Before you update your video drivers:
Use the Hard to find DriverCleaner Pro Download (http://downloads.guru3d.com/download.php?det=745).
FS2 Open uses OpenGL instead of Direct3d. The manufacturer's drivers may not be exactly what you want, so try the NGO Optimized Drivers (http://www.ngohq.com/) (I've had good luck with these on my ATI card), or the slightly older Omega Drivers (http://www.omegadrivers.net/).
OK, below are the 3.6.9 launcher 5.5a game options, which ones do you insist on using and which ones can you live without?
(http://xs411.xs.to/xs411/07016/Wholeshebang.jpg)
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Does anyone really have such critical performance problems with SCP? Let's face it: you can turn most of the graphics options on and never turn them off. You could *maybe* turn mipmapping off and have it done in hardware, and lighting missiles *might* be considered a waste of resources... but it's not like SCP requires hours of uber l33t tweakz0ring.
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Env mapping can be pretty bad for older cards.
At least my Geforce 4 TI didn't like it very much @ 1280*1024. ;)
Well, but that was D3D, so... I don't really know.
Atm, the content is wasting performance. It loads too many maps and they do not have mip maps. -img2DDS will compress uncompressed maps and even create mip maps (afaik), but that takes time... so your loading will take longer.
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nVidia GeForce FX 5200, 128MB on APG 4x (2.0).
Graphics:
All on except...
Disable motion debris
Game Speed:
All on except...
Disable vertical sync
HUD:
All on except...
Enables 3D radar
Gameplay:
All on except...
Toggle features for The Babylon Project
Toggle features for Wing Commander Saga
Audio:
All off except...
Preload mission game songs
Experimental:
All off except...
Use specular alpha for env mapping
Facing blank area, empty mission:
minimum fps: 55
maximum fps: 65
average fps: 60
Facing blank area, busy (100+ ship) mission: (updated)
minimum fps: 5
maximum fps: 20
average fps: 15
Facing action area, busy (100+ ship) mission: (added)
minimum fps: (unknown; the game freezes for about 10 seconds, rendering and calculating everything, likely a processor-bottleneck)
maximum fps: 10?
average fps: 5?
In a dogfight:
minimum fps: 15
maximum fps: 45
average fps: 35
Against bombs/bombers:
minimum fps: 5
maximum fps: 35
average fps: 15
I find my card has the worst time doing the explosions of bombs; they tend to lag it up until the shockwave passes and so does the audio.
Computer info:
Intel Celeron 2.0GHz on Socket 478
Intel D845PESV mainboard
512MB x 1 of DDR Memory, PC3200 (400mhz?) read as PC2100 (266mhz?)
PNY nVidia GeForce FX 5200, 128mb on APG 4x (2.0)
-Normal resolution 1024x768x32 at 75hz
17" CRT Monitor
Onboard Audio
Western Digital? 80GB Hard Drive, 8mb Cache, 7200RPM, on IDE 33/66/100?
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Bob-san, I think your frame rates (very nice documentation, thank you) answer the question posed by Pnakotus. I also slow down below 60 when everything is cranked up. I've noticed many people say they slow way down when the big shockwave is released.
The problem isn't so much maximum frame rates either, it's consistency. That's why I leave vsync on.
200fps that drops to 100 doesn't look as good as 60fps that is constant under all conditions. A rock solid 60fps is like butter.
DaBrain is working on a really cool update to the vps files and I can hardly wait. In the meantime I'm going to try this -img2DDS flag...
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The biggest framerate killer is by far the 1024x1024 shockwave in the current (3.6.9 zeta) mv_adveffects vp. It causes the framerate to drop like a brick on basically any system. These will be cut down in the next vp revision, but for now you need to either remove them from the vp or extract the ones from mv_effects into the game's data\effects folder, which will cause the game to use those instead. The blue/orange issue is a matter of personal preference. I like the orange shockwaves better and use those. Apart from that, the mv_models vp caused a substantial performance hit in the past, but the last time I tried the game without it was over a year ago and it may be different now.
adveffects in general contains a lot of bloat at the moment (e.g., the old tga nebulas, which actually look slightly worse than the original ones in the game while using about 20 times the memory), but also has plenty of good stuff like the animated glowmaps and beam effects.
Some of the weapon effects in the main effects vp also look quite terrible. I use a duplicate of the mv_effects.tbm file with some of the image names removed to revert to the originals. I also use the older thruster graphics instead of the ones in the current effects vp. They look better to me, although they do at times look funny from certain angles.
These are my game settings:
Graphics: Everything except disable motion debris, stop fog from intersecting hull and disable movie scaling. I prefer the feeling of motion that the debris provide and don't like how the 3D poof rendering method looks (the stop fog thing), especially out of the side views of your ship.
Game speed: Cache bitmaps is on and the other two are off.
HUD: Extra scanning lines, target info, rearm/repair timer and the ballistic gauge are enabled. These are personal preferences for the most part, although there is really no reason to leave the last two off.
Gameplay: 3D warp is on, although it occasionally causes bugs with a few ships.
Audio: Preload sounds is on.
Experimental: Ingame joining is on. I leave specular alpha off since it causes rendering bugs on quite a few ships at the moment, although this should change with the next media VP.
Dev tool: The framerate display is on.
Extra flags (need to be typed in manually): -ambient_factor 90 -ogl_spec 70 -spec_exp 1.0 -spec_tube 1.0
The first one is especially important, but the same value will look different for everyone depending on the monitor and ingame brightness settings.
The game is set to 2048x1536 with vsync, triple buffering, 6x MS AA and 16x AF (forced through the driver) and runs on an X1900XTX (512MB) at 710/800mhz. The framerates are generally between 70 and 85 in most missions (the 85 is forced by vsync), but can drop to the mid 50s with a lot of ships in view. Fighting/action generally doesn't influence the framerate much, as long as the adveffects shockwaves are not used. There are certain reproducible situations where beams cause an enormous slowdown when fired for the first time in a mission, even when they're using the original retail graphics, but this isn't very common and may be due to some bug in the game.
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Another important consideration to take into account is graphics card/processor throttling on some machines. Check this out:
System:
IBM Thinkpad T30
Pentium 4 2.18 Ghz
512 MB RAM
ATI Mobility Radeon 7500
Both my graphics card and my processor want to throttle back when the laptop is running on batteries. I can turn off the graphics throttling, but I haven't been able to turn off the processor throttling yet.
Running on batteries:
No AA, AF, or other high-quality options on it graphics card.
Vsync turned off in both the graphics card and the launcher.
running FSO 3.6.9 RC8 with retail data - no command line options (except -fps and -no_vsync), no mediavps.
In-game detail on low.
FPS: 5
No AA, AF, or other high-quality options on it graphics card.
Vsync turned off in both the graphics card and the launcher.
running FSO 3.6.9 RC8 with mediavps (no adveffects), -spec, -glow, -env, -jpgtga, -mipmap, no motion debris, fog intersect hull, 3d warp, flash on warp, envalpha, -no_vsync, -fps)
In-game detail on high, model detail on max.
FPS: 1-2, pretty much a freeze.
Plugged in:
No AA, AF, or other high-quality options on it graphics card.
Vsync turned off in both the graphics card and the launcher.
running FSO 3.6.9 RC8 with retail data - no command line options (except -fps and -no_vsync), no mediavps.
In-game detail on low.
FPS: 130 min, 140 max.
No AA, AF, or other high-quality options on it graphics card.
Vsync turned off in both the graphics card and the launcher.
running FSO 3.6.9 RC8 with mediavps (no adveffects), -spec, -glow, -env, -jpgtga, -mipmap, no motion debris, fog intersect hull, 3d warp, flash on warp, envalpha, -no_vsync, -fps)
In-game detail on high, model detail on max.
FPS: 60 average, 50 min, 80 max.
Makes a BIG difference.
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CP5670... nice to know that some of us can afford such hardware...
Anyways how do we force a certain hertz setting ingame? I don't want 1024x768x32 at 75 hertz (setting I use for both WinXP Home SP2 and Ubuntu 5.10 Linux) to revert to 1024x768x32 at 60/70/72 hertz, since it causes problems with me getting headaches and monitor scaling (I have it setup near-perfect).
Anyways I need to fix my benchmark... I did two missions last night called "Orion Assult" and "Colossus Assult", and got some new benchmarks... noticed something that I didn't notice before-massive slowdown when facing all 96 other ships, resolved with a large performance boost by turning the ship away from it all.
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This is a well known problem, and fixes abound. Google "refresh rate fix".
A refresh rate lock or game specific profile is available in all stock drivers now I think, just poke around. I don't like the stock ATI drivers though.
I'm currently using ATI tray tools, the fix in there looks like this:
(http://xs411.xs.to/xs411/07022/TrayToolsRefreshLock.jpg)
ATI Tray Tools (http://www.guru3d.com/article/atitraytools/189/)
NVdia Tray Tools (http://nvtweak.laptopvideo2go.com/)
Or, get them bundled with the NGO Drivers (http://www.ngohq.com/)
I used to use RefreshForce (http://www.pagehosting.co.uk/rf/), I even sent them some money back in the day.
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CP5670... nice to know that some of us can afford such hardware...
Anyways how do we force a certain hertz setting ingame? I don't want 1024x768x32 at 75 hertz (setting I use for both WinXP Home SP2 and Ubuntu 5.10 Linux) to revert to 1024x768x32 at 60/70/72 hertz, since it causes problems with me getting headaches and monitor scaling (I have it setup near-perfect).
I actually consider my system fairly midrange these days. It's almost nine months old now and I would usually have upgraded by this point, but the lack of any good games at the moment has put me off from it. :p
Anyway, I've found that all of those refresh rate override programs fail with some game or another. The best way to do it is to remove the low refresh modes out of your monitor driver (inf) file, so Windows thinks your monitor is incapable of showing them and never outputs them under any circumstances. Rivatuner can make the inf file for you, but it's very easy to do through notepad.
For FS2 specifically, at least on Windows, you can add in the dword flag OGLRefreshRate into the game's registry section and set the decimal value to your desired refresh rate.
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I'd attempt to participate in this benchmark, but I think my card (x1950xt) would skew the results too much :p
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Well, here's what I have:
System:
P4 3.0GHz HT Enabled
512 MB RAM (soon to be a gig if my ignorant grandmother will get the hint that memory isn't related to my hard drive and buy the ram stick she promised me >.<)
GeForce 6200 256MB AGP
FSO Settings:
Graphics
Enable Specular
Enable Glowmaps
Enable Environment Maps
Enable JPG/TGA Textures
Enable Mipmapping
Apply Lighting to Missiles
Mediavps
MV_Core
MV_Models
MV_Textures
MV_Effects
MV_Adveffects
I can play all the FS2 missions without slowdown, but on user made missions with ****loads of ships being rendered, I can go maybe one mission and then the rest of the time i have less than 15 fps. Damn low RAM count.
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You want a low end benchmark?
AMD Thunderbird 1.33 Ghz processor.
512 MB SDRAM CAS2
RADEON 9500Pro 128MB overclocked to 312/300 mHz.
Flags:
-mod Mods\mediavps -glow -jpgtga -mipmap -img2dds -cache_bitmaps -dualscanlines -targetinfo -snd_preload -fps
Mediavps are the latest set, excluding cell and adveffects
1024x768x32 @ 85Hz, OpenGL on High
And generally I get framerates in the 50s and 60s. It's only in missions where there's a lot going on (Clash of the Titans II, Part II for example) that I get really bogged down... ship explosions knock me down to 5 fps every now and then too.
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Thanks for the report.
WHAT WE REALLY NEED is a true benchmark. They have them for doom and quake, etc.
I wonder how hard it would be for someone to write a self running sequence that logs min, max, and avg frame rates? The sequence would naturally include lots of ships and explosions.
Please, any programmers reading this?
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As of this very second... the best benchmark we have is turning on the FPS counter in-game and watching it when it lags or you're not busy.
There are some benchmark tools that run as another program, writing a long file to a *.txt file and modifying it as required. Search up one or somehting.
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Search up one or somehting.
Yeah, umm, thanks. Can you be more specific? I know posting a link takes work...especially after all the links I gave you for the refresh rate fix.
And that doesn't address the need for the benchmarker to run the exact same sequence. It has to be pre-scripted or it's worthless.
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Well here's my system and my set up for fred_open
Pentium 4 3gig HT @ 800mhz FSB
Ge-force 6800ultra 256 AGPX8 mem speed 1.1 GHz / Ramdec 400 MHz (not overclocked)
PNY 1024ddr 3200 @ 400mhz (2x512 duel channel mode)
AC97 On board Audio (its crap but then it hasn't buggered up like my Audigy2, go figure?)
OS = Windows Vista Enterprise edition (genuine with valid key)
LAUNCHER SETTINGS
Features
Easy set up, set to HIGH MEMORY FEATURE USAGE ON
FLAGS
GFX
enable specular
enable glow
enable environment maps
enable jpg/tga textures
enable mipmapping
HUD
Enable 3d radar
GAMEPLAY
use models for ship selection
enable 3d warp
enable flash upon warp
SOUND
Preload mission game sounds
DEV TOOL
Show FPS on hud
I must point out, that soon as them large shock waves come in, my system drops to what would be considered a stop animation recording frame rate.
Something really needs to be done about them
*EDIT*
oops forgot to add, my FPS are solid at 120, they don't go higher, and they don't go lower, i don't have V-sync on neither
its just them Shock waves that do it, i think its more of a memory issue than Graphics to be honest.
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Well, I'm posting my setup too...
System - Windows XP SP2/Kubuntu 6.06 LTS 32bit
CPU - AMD64 Athlon 3200+ (~2100 MHz absolute freq.)
RAM - 1024 MB DDR-SDRAM
GPU - XFX GeForce 7600 GT XXX-edition, 256 MB DDR2 memory - no idea about frequencies
Launcher Video settings: 1280x1024@32bit, OpenGL, Trilinear text. depth, 16xAF, general settings High, Use large textures on.
GPU settings for 3.6.9 official exe:
AA - 8xS
AF - Application controlled (16xAF set in Launcher)
Image quality set to highest possible
VSync On
Forces trilinear mipmapping
Uniform surface texture Enabled (dunno about exact translation - my control panel is Finnish)
Extension limit - disabled
Hardware acceleration - one display
Trilinear optimization - disabled
Anisothropic mip filtering otimization - disabled
Anisothropic sample optimization - disabled
Gamma Correction anti-aliasing - enabled
Transparency Antialiasing - Supersampling
Triple buffer - enabled
Negative LOD Level - Clamp
Launcher flags:
GFX - All on except Disable Scale to Window
Game Speed - All on
HUD - All on except analog ballistic ammo gauge, 'cause I don't need it for the time being.
Gameplay - All on except features for TBP and WCSaga are off when I play standard FS campaigns.
Audio - Preload mission game sounds
Multi - All off
Troubleshoot - All off
Experimental - Ese specular alpha for env mapping on, others off.
Custom flags: -ambient_factor 18 -no_emissive_light -spec_exp 16.7 -spec_point 0.6 -spec_static 0.9 -spec_tube 1 -fov 0.7
Max FPS: 120 (hardware limits to 60 but the game counter shows up to 120)
Average FPS - above hundred. Ie. almost always up to what my TFT screen can do - 60 Hz only... :sigh:
Minimum FPS - sometimes, on huge explosion fest, FPS can briefly drop to 30-40, but it's always very much playable.
On Linux side, I can boost Anti-Aliasing up to 16x level, but then the general FPS drops to 50-70 when anything but empty sky is visible. <20 FPS when something big explodes, so I only use that to take kick ass screenshots for background etc.
By the way, may I suggest a suitable mission for estimating the minimum FPS on certain settings?
Axem's Just Another Day: Electric Boogaloo's huge Disco Inferno mission "Well Duh", where Alpha one and Not Derek Smart clash.
It gives me absolute down peak FPS of ~10 when Not Derek Smart ruins the Disco Show. Most of the time even that stays above 20 FPS though. Screenie attached.
Dropping Anti-Aliasing down to "only" 4x gives me practically monitor-limited FPS on almost every situation.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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By the way, may I suggest a suitable mission for estimating the minimum FPS on certain settings?
Axem's Just Another Day: Electric Boogaloo's huge Disco Inferno mission "Well Duh", where Alpha one and Not Derek Smart clash.
Cool suggestion, thanks.
Your observation on AA is well taken. I read in a performance guide to drop AA and crank AF, which seems right.
Now if someone could script the mission you suggested and give us a FPS benchmark. Maybe taylor knows what that would entail.
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WHAT WE REALLY NEED is a true benchmark. They have them for doom and quake, etc.
The problem is that we don't have working demo support. Without the ability to replay a mission exactly the same every time there is no way to really test general performance, particular for graphics. The existing demo support is lacking at best, and though I had gotten all of that old code working at one time, it was before I had joined SCP and I don't know what I ever did with that upgraded code. The problem with simply scripting a mission to test FPS with is that you can't get accurate FPS averages, and you are going to largely be CPU bound rather than measuring the performance of your video card at various graphics quality settings.
Getting the demo support is on the todo list though. But it's about as low priority as it can get, as there are far more important things to work on.
Your observation on AA is well taken. I read in a performance guide to drop AA and crank AF, which seems right.
And the reason for that is pretty simple. AF has more of a hit on general processing performance of the GPU, so if you have a fast GPU then you can get away with a really high AF setting. AA on the other hand will have a significant hit on memory usage. Since FSO has very high texture memory requirements, you are better off performance wise sacrificing some AA quality in order to get far better render performance. Unless you have a 256 or 512 meg video card, don't even think about using a high AA setting. Otherwise you will be sacrificing up to 80% of your video card memory just for frame buffers and AA, giving you only 20% for textures and model data, which is far below what you really need.
I have changes in progress which will greatly reduce system memory usage for OpenGL. This will translate to higher overall performance, but not necessarily better rendering performance. Plus I recently fixed a bug that was causing those 3D shockwaves to take so long to display the first time. I'll be able to reduce rendering passes when shaders get here which can translate to much better looking fullneb missions, as well as increased rendering performance. Also I have code in the works to greatly improve memory usage and state switching performance on model data that the card buffers, and that will increase rendering efficiency of each model rendered to the screen. So, there will be further improvements throughout this year.
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Well, how much work would it be to a) record everything that happens during a mission for future playback and b) code the support for playing it back? I have a feeling that a) is easier.
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I remember WMCoolmon edited the main hall with LUA hooks (i'm sure it's the wrong term, but I'm not a coder. :p) to play some form of a demo. but that wouldn't affect FPS in the main hall would it?
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Well, how much work would it be to a) record everything that happens during a mission for future playback and b) code the support for playing it back? I have a feeling that a) is easier.
Both already exist, was my point. :v: originally had code in the source which did that. The problem is that they never actually finished it. The demo files were/are massive, easily exceeding 60meg each. There was no UI for loading them, but it does have the ability to load and play one of the demo files as a default. The current code also doesn't fully record everything for the demo. It uses placeholders for things, and doesn't record many other things, just the results of them (for instance: no missiles, just the missile hit).
That is what I had fixed at one point, fully working playback code and mostly working record code. I did all of this years ago when I was initially running the game through Valgrind, a memory leak detector. Since running the game through Valgrind is very slow, coding on the demo system was my saving grace. I was able to record large, and long, demos while playing normally. Then, while running the game through Valgrind, I would playback one of the demos. What originally took 30 minutes worth of gameplay normally, would take several hours to playback with Valgrind. This let me record a complicated mission play, then play it back through the memory leak detector so that I didn't have to sit in front of my computer that entire time. And that's how I found approximately 80meg worth of memory leaks in :v:'s original code. :)
The problem is that after I got done with the Valgrind tests I do something with the code changes to the demo system. I spooled off the code tree to a network drive which I have in storage somewhere, or I simply erased it all. I plan to redo the code again at some point, but I just don't care to make the time to do it. Plus, I think that most people would rather have me spending my time on other coding tasks for the foreseeable future. :)
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Plus, I think that most people would rather have me spending my time on other coding tasks for the foreseeable future.
Indeed. If only there were someone to whom you could delegate...
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I think the closest we could get to a benchmark right now is an action cutscene, but it would have to involve larger warships only since anything with fighters will proceed quite differently every time it's run.
And the reason for that is pretty simple. AF has more of a hit on general processing performance of the GPU, so if you have a fast GPU then you can get away with a really high AF setting. AA on the other hand will have a significant hit on memory usage.
You actually don't even need a particularly fast GPU. Pretty much everything from the 9700 line and onward takes roughly a 2-4% performance hit from 16x AF. (leaving aside the 7 series cards on HQ mode, but that's a whole separate issue)
By the way, are there any known performance issues with the beams, on the game engine side? To add to what I mentioned earlier, there is one point in one of my missions where there is a substantial and reproducible performance drop when some beams fire for the first time, but they are only using the retail graphics. I can PM you with more information if needed.
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By the way, are there any known performance issues with the beams, on the game engine side? To add to what I mentioned earlier, there is one point in one of my missions where there is a substantial and reproducible performance drop when some beams fire for the first time, but they are only using the retail graphics. I can PM you with more information if needed.
There are known performance issues with numerous parts of the code, and it varies as to what those issues are. Texture handling, collision detection, and things like that have a pretty severe performance hit.
If you just want to test whether it's a memory/loading issue though, I can get you a test build of my current code tree for you try out. It's not 100% yet, but I have pretty much all of the performance issues in my test cases worked out already. Currently, it can cut the memory requirements of a mission by about half, and is a bit smarter with several aspects of texture usage. Just need to get the new code a lot more ALT-TAB resistant before it's actually safe to use by the masses. :)
If you are interested then let me know and I'll get you a build link. The changes should show up in 3.6.10, so it won't really be a long wait before everyone gets to benefit from the new code.
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Cool, I'll give it a try and see if it does anything here. :)
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I think the closest we could get to a benchmark right now is an action cutscene, but it would have to involve larger warships only since anything with fighters will proceed quite differently every time it's run.
That's why I suggested that one mission from JAD2. It has an action cutscene, and only one fighter that is moving - the player. And, it offers loads of those things that tend to produce the most of the FPS drops in the game: Particle effects and shockwaves in explosions.
Just keep the throttle to zero in the mission beginning and the mission will proceed quite similarly practically every time. Alpha One will turn to face the Disco Installation with dancing CommNodes, then Colossus 3000 will emerge from subspace causing everything to go pop. That will generate perhaps the most graphics-intensive conditions in a FS2 mission that I have ever seen. When the whole screen is filled with particles and/or shockwaves, it becames a good test for effects.
Unfortunately that mission is not that good for testing how much many high-poly HTL ships in view will affect the frame rate. Perhaps someone should make an action cutscene missione of an HTL Aquitaine, HTL Lucifer, HTL Whatever and some CommNodes exploding. However, explosions are as far as I know the "bottleneck" for most setups, so measuring the FPS during intensive explosions would give a rather good idea about system capabilities.
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Any chance I can try the test build? I am currently having a few performance and stupidity issues; Intel Celeron 2.0ghz, 512mb DDR memory, GF FX5200... my computer is a snail, yet somehow I still manage to run adveffects. If that can boost FPS on my computer... I'd be quite confident it can do that on any computer.
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I'm running a P4 2.53, 768 RAM, and a PNY 6200 AGP 4x with 256 on board. I don't use the adveffects vps, because I've heard of tremendous slowdowns, but the thing which seem to affect my performance the most are missile lighting effects. I keep missile lighting effects off and my fps ranges from 18 at the lowest and 60 at the high end. It usually hovers at the V-Sync of 30 or so though during dogfights I think.
I wonder if there wouldn't be some way to apply a performance value to each effect so that the launcher could provide a total value which could be compared against a composite score of your system.
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Any chance I can try the test build?
No. :P :D
The performance improvements aren't done yet, so the code has some inherent instability and so you have to be pretty mindful of what you are doing with it. The changes will be completed and start showing up in public builds soon enough though, so you're better off waiting for that. :)
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I don't use the adveffects vps, because I've heard of tremendous slowdowns, but the thing which seem to affect my performance the most are missile lighting effects.
Thanks for the observation. I've noticed slowdowns with missile lighting too. There is one scene in particular where, at a long distance, 20 or 30 missiles are launched at some ship and my system slows way down. I think missile lighting is a good effect to turn off, considering you probably can't even tell if it's on most of the time.
You should try adveffects though if you haven't. You can unzip this file (http://huggybaby.fs2downloads.com/shockwave3d.zip) in
"C:\Games\FreeSpace2\mediavps\data\effects\" to override the big crawl inducing shockwaves.
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I've noticed that (at least on my system) enabling -specular decreases the framerate an average of 10 fps. :wtf:
Alas, no shiny ships...
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No wonder, R100 starts to be a rather old chip nowadays.
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indeed, I replaced my tnt2 back in... '02...
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Thanks Huggybaby, I'll give it a try.
Before I do though, could you explain to me how this one file is enough to override the adv effects shockwaves? From reading other posts, I can see that there are varying levels of shockwaves, and medium seems to be the most efficient...
Also, the file path you mentioned would put the file in the default freespace 2 data directory, not the mediavps...shouldn't it be in the media vps? That's where my table mods are...
Forgive me I'm new to this.
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that file should go in "C:\Games\FreeSpace2\mediavps\data\effects\" to override the ones in the mediavps.
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Ravage,
Thanks for asking...
Put the shockwave where Turey said to, I'll edit my post.
BTW, that's the same shockwave as in the normal mv_effects file, I just exported it for you. I'm assuming it's medium sized, I don't know of any others.
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Thank you Huggybaby and Turey.
I'm still a little confused though. How does putting this file into the data directory of the media vps compare to the stuff in this thread? http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,34618.0.html
Is this single graphics file change the super high end shockwaves to low end, mid, high?
Thanks for the help!
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That thread is from 2005!
I ignore those old posts for the sake of my sanity. :lol:
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;)
OK, Huggy! There's just sooooo much info on HLP forums, and the questions I have never seem to be answered by the wiki, so I'm always left wondering if my questions were something solved a long time ago, or something that I just don't understand.
I'll give it a go with the adveffects tonight and the graphic file you posted!
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Thank you Huggybaby and Turey.
I'm still a little confused though. How does putting this file into the data directory of the media vps compare to the stuff in this thread? http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,34618.0.html
Is this single graphics file change the super high end shockwaves to low end, mid, high?
Thanks for the help!
o.0
The last post in that thread is the day before I joined.
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I'm not sure about the file path for this 3d shockwave file. There isn't an "effects" folder in my mediavps data folder...just a cache folder and a multi log. My modified weapons table is simply placed in the mediavps directory, I tried placing this file in the media vps folder, but there is still some serious slowdown from shockwaves. I tested using the "Greyface" mission from the simulator...plenty of bomb waves and the inevitable ship destruction waves...
If I have this file in the right place, then I think my GPU just isn't up to the challenge...It stays at 60fps and goes to 30 at the lowest during dogfights, but when a shockwave goes off, bam...5-15fps for a second or two...
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Create the folder. It doesn't exist by default.
*note to the installer team - Make a bunch of empty folders by default in the mediavps folder. It cuts down on questions like this one* :D
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OK. I removed those folders because they stay empty for the most part, and I didn't want anyone asking "why are these folders there, but they're empty?" I guess you can't win for losing!
I'll put them in my next download.
Ravage, I've been testing for three hours now. I'm getting huge slowdowns too, and I've narrowed it down to the specific file and effect. Here's what I've found so far:
It's BEAM, not shockwave related. I'm testing with the very first mission, "Surrender, Belisarius!"
I fly in close to Belisarius and watch what happens when it's blown up. I use the frames per second switch found in the launcher's "Features/List type/Dev Tool/Show frames per second on Hud".
I have an AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+, 2 GB of RAM and an ATI X700 with 256 MB RAM.
I've eliminated all the Graphics settings. I can turn all those on. I've eliminated my spyware and antivirus software. I've eliminated my video card tweaks. They don't make much of a difference.
I was sure it was down to one of the two adveffects files because of all the admonitions that they cause slowdowns.
In C:\Games\FreeSpace2\mediavps, if I use the mv_adveffects.vp file and not the mp-710_adveffects.vp file , I drop from 120 fps to 5 as soon as they say "Gunnery control, open fire", even before I see a beam. The medium shockwave only drops me to 50 fps.
If I use the mp-710_adveffects.vp and not the mv_adveffects.vp file, I only drop to 80 fps instead of 5.
That's as far as I've gotten, but that narrows it down pretty well.
What really gets me is that with both adveffects files removed, I can hardly tell the difference in quality, but this is probably because I don't know what to look for.
I think Shivan SPS had the right idea removing those from the mediavps folder by default, so my next download will follow suit.
I've seen posts regarding optimized beams, but can't find them right now.
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:) Thanks Karajorma! I'm still new at this, so I wasn't sure about the folder creation. As it was, the first time I tried it, I made the folder and placed the tga file in it, but the slow down was still pretty bad.
Huggy, thanks for all the input! I did experience slow down from beams, but it was definitely the shockwaves that were slowing me down. The fps drop wasn't even from processing time issues I think, but rather loading the wave graphics to the GPU. I Think my bottleneck is the hardrive to the GPU...once it's there it does fine. In fact, after the first few waves load up, the subsequent ones don't seem to drop my frame rate much at all. However, everytime there was a new volley, it lags for a 1-2 secs as it loads the waves and then it plays smoothly.
I'll have to try another mission with a bunch of beams going off, and see how that does. Incidentally, there was a link to a more efficient beam ani on the very first page of the 3.6.8 Zeta stickied thread I think.
I should also mention, that I modify my weapons table to double the firing rate and velocity of all primaries, so there is a lot of primary weapon fire going on, though it's never slowed my fps down before...so I'm not sure if it's relevant...just saying is all.
Oh, and I just have to say thank you to everyone here again for making Freespace the best game ever!
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Thanks Ravage.
I've seen the reports relating to slow hard drives also. And, my very fast machine IS using one slow, old drive (don't ask). Still, I get no relief even after several attempts. So cacheing doesn't help me. :(
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OK. I removed those folders because they stay empty for the most part, and I didn't want anyone asking "why are these folders there, but they're empty?" I guess you can't win for losing!
You have a point. I was always seeing that question back in retail days.
To be honest though that question was generally an idle question or a stab at what might be the problem while people who don't think to create the folder are going to sit around not playing the game while they wait to find out if the lack of the folder is a problem.
We can always try sticking a text file called "This folder is empty by default" in the empty ones if that helps. Although then we'd get a bunch of "My folder wasn't empty!" questions if we later tell people to patch something to there :D
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As a baseline, I can do a retail install, which I think makes every folder possible.
Then, I can put in each empty folder a brief text file explaining what might eventually go in there, and why it's empty at the moment.
All I need is someone to provide that explanation. :)
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All I need is someone to provide that explanation. :)
I can do that. IM me next time I'm on and I'll help out.
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Make a start on the text for the obvious ones (missions, maps, music etc) and then if you're stuck on any of the others I'll help you. Bear in mind that mediavps doesn't need all of the folders from /data. Just the ones that could be needed by a mod.
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If you are interested then let me know and I'll get you a build link. The changes should show up in 3.6.10, so it won't really be a long wait before everyone gets to benefit from the new code.
I knew it! For developers, time IS relative! ;)
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To be honest, there was abnormally long time between 3.6.7 and 3.6.9 releases, and that led to almost everyone using unofficial (or rather semi-official) builds that were posted around the forums with different kind of features - there was the first voice recognition build, lighting test build, all the release candidates for 3.6.9...
Only time will tell how long we'll have to wait for 3.6.10... or 3.7 series even... :)
But I suppose we will notice when it happens! ;)
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I'm not quite sure how best to handle the folder situation. On reflection I think one text file (or jpg) describing files and folders would be better than one in each directory. I'm not sure whether having empty directories is better than removing them.
A great deal of room in a retail install is taken up by 1. MindSpring (now obsolete) 2. Electronic Registration (Obsolete) and 3. FredDocs (can be packaged separately). Removing those leaves many folders I haven't seen used yet. Here are some html directory listings of an FS2 Retail Install:
FS2 Retail (http://huggybaby.fs2downloads.com/Freespace2%20retail.html)
FS2 Retail minus MindSpring and Electronic Registration (http://huggybaby.fs2downloads.com/freespace2retailminuseregandmindspring.html)
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WARNING! EXTREMELY LONG POST!
Here's what I know:
<c:\Games\FreeSpace2\data\cache> - Cached Files, for faster loading. File Type is .ibx. These are automatically created by FreeSpace Open if they don't exist, so you really don't need them.
<c:\Games\FreeSpace2\data\cbanims> - Command Briefing Animations. File Type is .ani (and possbly .eff, I'm not sure). Associated Retail VPs are tango1_fs2.vp, tango2_fs2.vp, and tango3_fs2.vp.
<c:\Games\FreeSpace2\data\effects> - Weapons effects, explosions, shield hit effects, nebulas, etc. File types are .ani, .neb, .pcx, .jpg, .tga, .dds, and .eff. Associated Retail VPs are sparky_fs2.vp and sparky_hi_fs2.vp.
<c:\Games\FreeSpace2\data\fonts> - Never used it, I assume it's for replacing the default fonts. File Type is .vf. Associated Retail VP is sparky_fs2.vp.
<c:\Games\FreeSpace2\data\force feedback> - Never used it. File Type is .frc. Associated Retail VP is sparky_fs2.vp.
<c:\Games\FreeSpace2\data\freddocs> - Fred Manual.
<c:\Games\FreeSpace2\data\hud> - Any thing you see on the HUD. Escort list, Shield display ani's, all the gauges, the talking pilot heads, etc. File Type is .ani (and possibly .eff, I'm not sure.). Associated Retail VPs are sparky_fs2.vp and sparky_hi_fs2.vp.
<c:\Games\FreeSpace2\data\intelanims> - Contains the animations you see when you select Intelligence in the Tech Room. File Type is .ani (and possbly .eff, I'm not sure). Associated Retail VP is smarty_fs2.vp.
<c:\Games\FreeSpace2\data\interface> - All the buttons, menu layouts, frames, etc. File Types are .ani and .pcx (and possibly .eff and the other image formats, I'm not sure.). Associated Retail VPs are sparky_fs2.vp and sparky_hi_fs2.vp. (Note: sparky_fs2.vp and sparky_hi_fs2.vp also put some very interesting concept art in here, including 2_crim29.pcx, which is a ship that I don't recognize, but think that someone should make, now that we have triggered animation code.)
<c:\Games\FreeSpace2\data\maps> - Contains the textures for the ships. File types are .ani, .pcx, .jpg, .tga, .dds, and .eff. Associated Retail VP is sparky_fs2.vp.
<c:\Games\FreeSpace2\data\missions> - .fc2 (Campaigns) and .fs2 (Missions) go here. Associated Retail VP is root_fs2.vp.
<c:\Games\FreeSpace2\data\models> - Contains the actual 3d representations of the ships. File Type is .pof. Associated Retail VP is sparky_fs2.vp.
<c:\Games\FreeSpace2\data\movies> - Contains the in-game cutscenes. File Types are .mve and .ogg.
<c:\Games\FreeSpace2\data\multidata> - An alternate place to store some of the data collected when you play multi. Can be used by setting an option on the Multi option menu, but shouldn't be used, as it doesn't seem to work, and will keep you from playing any missions in Multi that are transfered from another player.
<c:\Games\FreeSpace2\data\music> - Contains the music files. File Type is .wav (and possibly .ogg, I'm not sure.). Associated Retail VP is warble_fs2.vp.
<c:\Games\FreeSpace2\data\players> - Files related to players. This directory contains saved HUD setups (when you hit the save button on the HUD Config menu). File Type is .hcf. Associated Retail VP is root_fs2.vp.
<c:\Games\FreeSpace2\data\players\images> - Contains pilot images. File Type is .pcx (and maybe other image types, I'm not sure.) Associated Retail VP is root_fs2.vp.
<c:\Games\FreeSpace2\data\players\multi> - Contains your multi player pilots. File Type is .plr.
<c:\Games\FreeSpace2\data\players\single> - Contains your single player pilots. File Type is .plr.
<c:\Games\FreeSpace2\data\players\squads> - Contains squad images. File Type is .pcx (and maybe other image types, I'm not sure.) Associated Retail VP is root_fs2.vp.
<c:\Games\FreeSpace2\data\sounds> - Contains sound effects (as opposed to music.). Should never actually have files in it. Associated Retail VP is sparky_fs2.vp.
<c:\Games\FreeSpace2\data\sounds\16b11k> - I actually don't know the difference between these this folder and the next one. It appears to just be the quality of the sound, but I can't be sure. File Types are .wav (and possibly .ogg, but I'm not sure.). Associated Retail VP is sparky_fs2.vp. Sounds to listen to in this section of sparky_fs2.vp include copilot.wav.
<c:\Games\FreeSpace2\data\sounds\8b22k> - Sounds to listen to in this section of sparky_fs2.vp include bup.wav, Pirate.wav, and thankyou.wav.
<c:\Games\FreeSpace2\data\tables> - .tbl (Regular Tables) and .tbm (Modular Tables) files go here. Common examples are ships.tbl and weapons.tbl. Associated Retail VP is root_fs2.vp.
<c:\Games\FreeSpace2\data\voice> - Contains the voice recordings for the game. Should never actually contain any files. Associated Retail VP is stu_fs2.vp.
<c:\Games\FreeSpace2\data\voice\briefing> - Contains the voices you hear both before the mission and during it. File Type is .wav (and possibly .ogg, I'm not sure.). Associated Retail VP is stu_fs2.vp. Sounds to listen to in this section of stu_fs2.vp include Gshi_AC_01.wav and MT10_MB_01_OUTTAKE.wav.
<c:\Games\FreeSpace2\data\voice\command_briefings> - Contains the voices you hear during command briefings. File Type is .wav (and possibly .ogg, I'm not sure.). Associated Retail VP is stu_fs2.vp.
<c:\Games\FreeSpace2\data\voice\debriefing> - Contains the voices you hear during debriefing, including the rank promotion and medal acquisition voices. File Type is .wav (and possibly .ogg, I'm not sure.). Associated Retail VP is stu_fs2.vp.
<c:\Games\FreeSpace2\data\voice\personas> - Contains the automated messages you hear from the pilots and Command in-game. File Type is .wav (and possibly .ogg, I'm not sure.). Associated Retail VP is stu_fs2.vp. Sounds to listen to in this section of stu_fs2.vp include 1_stray.wav, 2_Oops1.wav, 3_p_dead.wav, 3_traitor.wav, 4_backup.wav, 4_notarget.wav, 4_traitor.wav, 5_oops1.wav, 5_traitor.wav, and 7_Traitor.wav.
<c:\Games\FreeSpace2\data\voice\special> - Contains miscellaneous voice files. File Type is .wav (and possibly .ogg, I'm not sure.). Associated Retail VP is stu_fs2.vp. Sounds to listen to in this section of stu_fs2.vp include BAS_W3_01.wav, BAS_W3_02.wav, BAS_W4_01.wav, BAS_W4_02.wav, L2-2_SN_02a.wav (Make sure your speakers are at max for this one, it's really quiet.), LP1-2_SN_02.wav, LP2-1_A2_02.wav, LP2-2_SN_02.wav (Make sure your speakers are at max for this one, it's really quiet.), LP2-2_SN_03.wav, LP2-2_SN_03_OUTTAKE.wav (Which is apparently the source of the copilot.wav mentioned earlier.), and LP2-2_SN_06_OUTTAKE.wav.
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Thank's Turey,
I'll format this and put it in a file.
And thanks karajorma too, I'm sure I'll find something to ask you soon. ;)
<edit> dangit, I missed some posts! Thanks Ravage for the beam hint, I've been looking for that.
<edit> OK Turey, how do I make DaBrains beams (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,38935.msg792209.html#msg792209) work? There is one eff file and a bunch of dds files.
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It's a beam, so it's an effect, so all of those files go in freespace2\mediavps\data\effects.
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Here are DaBrain's optimized beam glows (http://huggybaby.fs2downloads.com/beams.7z) 7zipped into a vp file. The original post is HERE (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,38935.msg792209.html#msg792209).
Extract the file and put it in the "C:\Games\FreeSpace2\mediavps" folder and it will really help beam slowdown problems if you have them.
Thanks Turey for the help and DaBrain for the beams.
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To be a nitpicker, these are not beams per ce, they are just beamglows. You know, the glows around beam turrets. Beam textures are entirely another thing.
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Thanks for the correction. Post edited (and link added).
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graphics:
ALL ON except for disable motion dedbris
game speed:
none.
HUD:
all!
gameplay:
all except for babylon project and wing commander
audio:
preload mission game sounds
experimental:
use specluarar alpha for env mapping
meidavps:
mv_core
mv_textures
works fine for me, even in d3d!
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Yay, now I get to do one of these:
:necro:
Seriously, stop digging around for old crap to reply to.
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it had new posts when i replyed >.<
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If you've never seen it, it's new to you!
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as in the "new" marker next to it. end of discussion. back on topic.