Hard Light Productions Forums
Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => FS2 Open Coding - The Source Code Project (SCP) => Topic started by: FUBAR-BDHR on January 24, 2007, 11:54:30 pm
-
I've been working on a mission. Added a few seraphim bombers, 4 actually. Now it seems like the main beams on the Hatshepsut are attacking the bombers and not the other caps. I'm not talking anti-fighter beams I mean the BVas beam. I haven't been able to capture a screen shot yet to confirm it. Anyone else notice this activity?
-
It's a known issue with standard game settings, also known as 'beam jamming'. That is if all the beams are freed and the ai_profiles.tbl ('huge' weapons issue) is not in use then by firing weapons with bomb tag into the firing arc of the capship beam causes the beam to prioritize bombs above other targets.
You have to force the beams to target other capships.
-
I've heard something about this before with the Seraphim in particular. I remember someone saying that the Seraphim is actually big enough to be targeted directly by the anti-capital beams, but it could be wrong as I don't know how the game would determine that.
-
Do they attack the bombs, bombers or both? Is it all types of bombs and bombers? How about trebs? I leave the bombers out it's too easy even on insane. Put the bombers in and can't even beat it on medium because the beams don't fire at what they are supposed to.
-
If it's just going after the bombers I could always beem protect them. Would that work or is it an issue no matter what? Talk about haveing a bad FRED night.
-
It targets the bombs (not bombers) but the game often tends to miss when firing beams it may well hit the bombers that fly directly behind the first wave of bombs.
And no. Beam-protecting bombers shouldnt help at all with this issue.
-
ship-turret-target-order
-Name of Ship
-Ships
-Asteroids
-Bombs
Should deal with the problem.
-
I remember someone saying that the Seraphim is actually big enough to be targeted directly by the anti-capital beams, but it could be wrong as I don't know how the game would determine that.
Just for the facts: The size of a ship is completely unimportant, the tags decide how the AI handles the ship. An Icanus with fighter-tag wouldn't be attack by huge beams (although I don't know if an Icanus with fighter tag would work ^^). Karajorma already gave a good solution (didn't even now such an SEXP, script, whatever) existed.
Nevertheless, if you don't want the ships to target any bombs with the big guns ("huge") you should change it in ai_profiles.tbl (as already mentioned). Search for something like "Huge turrets target bombs" and set it to "NO".
I prefer this way because I don't see any sense in huge turrets attacking bombs, sometimes this completely changes mission balancing (remember the high damage and fire wait of those weapons).
-
Well the only problem with ship-turret-target-order is it doesn't exist in retail. I'm trying to make the missions so they will work with retail so I'm using retail FRED2 to create the missions. When I have that done then I'll go back and make an even better version (possibly modded) using FRED2_Open. Is there a list of which weapons/ships huge beams will/won't target? I mean looking at the weapons table even trebs are flaged huge. I don't think I've ever been able to target a treb though. Also do the beams target the bombers, the bombs, both, or only bombers carrying bombs?
-
the solution is not to use beam-free-all on anti-capital ship beams and script battles using beam-fire. Normally i'd beam-free AAA beams and script the battle. You have more control over the mission that way, but its more work.
As said before, capitals will freak out and use every possible weapon against bombs, even if it means using an anti-capital ship beam and vaporizing the bomber wing that launched it. It really helps if you're defending, but sucks if you're attacking.
http://scp.indiegames.us/mantis/view.php?id=598
-
Very intersting thread. I can definately see how fast it changes the balance. 4 bombers from too easy to almost impossible. Looks like Cet was just Drunk enough to make use of the bug and I was just Drunk enough to stumble into it from the other direction. Got to watch out for us Drunks :D
Ok anyone have the answer to if the beams target trebs and stilettos? I could just add more bombers and have them try to disarm if they don't target them. That would probably make it hard enough without the total overkill.
-
AI is not targeting or shooting at weapons with "huge" flag.
Its targeting and shooting at weapons with "Bomb" flag.
This means that on basic retail setting no weapon will ever target Trebuchet, but all weapons will target (if freed) Stilettos.
IF the ai_profiles.tbl (this is for FS Open only) table option that affects the targeting is in use then weapons with "huge" flag - like capship mounted Trebuchets, large beam weapons, even other bombs - will not be targeted or fired at weapons with "bomb" flag.
For retail missions this means that capship beam duels have to be scripted if any bombers (or to be more accurate, weapons with "bomb" flag) are present in the mission.
-
Hmm according to the tables in Wiki stilettos don't have the bomb flag. Are there other flags as well as bombs that they will attack. For example stilettos say "puncture".
-
$Flags: ( "Huge" "Puncture" "player allowed" ;; Puncture = punches through armor to subsystem.
"Bomb" ) ;; Bomb = can be targeted
It has it. The formatting is just crazy.
-
Actually it seems like this page http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Weapon_Comparison_%28FS2%29 (http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Weapon_Comparison_%28FS2%29) had another error in it...
EDIT: There... fixed
-
Even finding bugs in the Wiki now. :D
Ok looks like uping the bomber count and arming with trebs it is then. At least for the retail version. I'll make a note of this in case I ever get around to a FS2_Open only version.
BTW: While were on the Wiki subject is the ship comparison table out there somewhere? I haven't found it yet.
-
yeah i noticed this too when testing Art of war, i was flying in a Myrmidon and then i launch 2 helios and i get killed by Anti-worships beams LOL!!!! :shaking: :shaking: :shaking: :shaking: :eek2: :wtf: :eek: :hopping: :mad: but i think as you say here, they target the bombs.
-
Anti-worships beams
Perhaps your Helios were praying at the time?
-
*snickers* Or maybe reading from the Book of Armaments?
-
Which verse from the Book of Armaments? I was thinking it would be proper that the bombs say a eulogy instead of reading from the Book of Armaments, after the beams miss and hit the bombers/myrmidons... I could be wrong!
-
True. Perhaps a favorite piece of scripture from said book as part of the eulogy. :D
-
The thing is, I never actually saw this happen in retail, though supposedly it should have. I only saw it start happening after I converted to 3.5 FSO. It may be as simple to fix as giving the capital ship an attack order.
-
Most (if not all) of the retail missions did not have caps with beam-free-all. You probably would have had to play missions from the 3rd map pack before it would occur. I never noticed it either until I started looking for it when it occured in the mission I was working on. Even then I almost didn't catch it.
-
I usually die from beams mysteriously... usually chasing down a bomber and I forget my orientation. The beam-free-all is active sometimes and then it shoots at bombs/bombers/me behind them!! I die from beams quite often... only once have I been nicked by a beam and NOT died! :P
-
Reminds me of the last mission on fs2 when i had 3.6.7. I was flying the ares and this shivan beam was finishing up it's firing, so right before the beam died (idk if that makes any difference in beam damage) i flew through it on purpose, and went from 98% hull integrity to 2%.
-
I've been hit dead on by a beam before. Didn't die but ended up 100k away from the ship.
-
Were you on invunerable? Beams have outward-momentium (iirc) so it could very well throw you 100k km away.
-
Nope just a qwark. Kind of like getting run over by the Hecate warping in playing RI and surviving. Doesn't happen often but it does. Also ever try to "ride" the Zed through the gate in M-02b? Same thing happens sometimes but usually you just die.
Oh and invunerable flag doesn't work for player ships in multi. I've tried to use it for mission testing.
-
O. I don't know about MP...
-
Oh and invunerable flag doesn't work for player ships in multi. I've tried to use it for mission testing.
Did you set the ship invulnerable using the SEXP or the tickbox in the Ships Editor? Cause I can guess why the SEXP doesn't work already (Basically we're back to no packet passing it on again).
-
Checked the box in ship editor. Didn't try sexp. Should't be a packet issue since I was the host and only one playing. Wasn't even connected to FS2netD.
-
Ah. In that case you're probably right that they simply didn't make it work in multiplayer then.
-
Just a thought, is there some way to take the preferencing of targets from the code (i.e. AI likes to use bombs against cap ships) and separate it from the default weapon flags into a separate category of its own? Part of this can be done with sexps but without the ability to give prefencing for fighters. Perhaps we could add separate flags for these?
-
Ah. In that case you're probably right that they simply didn't make it work in multiplayer then.
ship invulnerability works in multiplayer, i believe there was an FS1 multiplayer mission which the lucifer was invulnerable. The game may check to see if any player ships are flagged as invulnerable and unflag it.
-
We were talking about player ships. It works for normal ships but not for player ships.
BTW had another neat one happen yesterday. Got blown up by the energy buildup of a beam about to fire after the ship firing it was destroyed. It was a Ravan and I was in front about to take out the beam when it blew while the beam was on build up to fire. Debries with the beam trying to fire ran right into me.
-
Hmmmm. I wonder why you can't have an invulnerable ship in multi. It can't be just to cut down on somone using the SEXP to cheat since they couldn't do that in a validated mission anyway and who really cares if they cheat in an unvalidated one as it would soon be detected?
I suppose when playtesting you can just up the respawn count but there are times when invulnerability is a much better choice.
-
Noticed something a few minutes ago. Took stilettos for the first time in FS2_Open. Without even launching any I was attacked by cap beams. When I was out of them I wasn't attacked by beams. Don't know if this is a multiplayer thing since I had launched them on a previous spawn. Would have wrote it off as bad luck but it happend 3 spawns in a row. Also noticed that the stilettos had almost no effect on AWAC radar dome even when launched from point blank distance. Seemed to work fine on other subsystems though. I'll have to set up a test mission to see if I can confirm it.
One other thing I seemed to noticed with the stilettos was that when in dual fire one shot from an enemy ship looked like it took out both. Not sure if it did though. I remember an old multiplayer bug with bombs. Killing one would show both destroyed while the second was still live. Anyone know if this was ever fixed? If not something else to test.