Hard Light Productions Forums
Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The Modding Workshop => Topic started by: FlareBaffled on January 26, 2007, 02:22:37 pm
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Bringing th eoriginal Homeworld to FS2. This is th erepository of progress to date, and will be also the home of progress to come!
Kushan Target Drone
(http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/1756/mission14bj.jpg)
Kushan Drone Ship
(http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/2857/untitled1fh0.jpg)
Kushan Probe
(http://img58.imageshack.us/img58/7404/probe0al.jpg)
Kushan Light Interceptor
(http://img393.imageshack.us/img393/2890/untitled1jc4.jpg)
This last one hasn't been through the texturing process yet, but it will this weekend. I also need to make a decent cockpit for it, which I haven't finished doing yet.
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looks sweet!!! I love homeworld!
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You're aware of TAP mod? Coz they are making HW and HW2 ships into FS2. You'd better contact them to joint efford of HW mod
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I am aware of TAP, but this is MY vision of a HW1 mod. They have only posted shots of HW2 stuff as far as I could see, and besides...I am making my interpretations of high poly versions of the ships. I am not particularly interested in working for a team, and am just having some fun making some ships that I want to make.
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Anyone else think the probe (at least from this angle) bears a striking resemblance to a T-square (http://www.alltheweb.com/search?cat=img&cs=utf8&q=T+square&rys=0&itag=crv) used on a drafting table? ;)
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With a flourish of trumpets, and a fanfare worthy of the launch of the newest additon to the fleet, I give you:
The Kushan Scout.
(http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/5022/screen0013cv6.jpg)
(http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/6333/screen14ia7.jpg)
The texture is a panel-lined plain version at the moment, which will be overpainted with suitable Kushan colourschemes. I haven't made up my mind yet which colours to go for..... but that will be a simple alteration to the base PSD file I made the DDS from. I also need to come up with a design for a pilot....
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The nose doesn't look very scout-like, sorry...The rest of it looks OK, but the nose is just too far off of the original. The textures imply that the cockpits are basically armor plating with window squares, not actually 'pits.
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:) Well..I hated the nose of the Scout and wanted something that actually looked like I think Relic would have made it if they could use more than 50 polygons. I also wanted a cockpit view, and that would not be possible with the almost horizontal windows that the old one had. Pointless really to have them like that. Besides..I reckon a scout should have good visibility :D
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I think if Relic wanted a bulbous canopy they would've put one :) What I think the scout texture was implying was that the Kushan's scout had an armored "bathtub" like cockpit, with little viewing windows. If you look, you'll see that the Scout had a very thick/fat nose, and very square - I think they did this on purpose, not just because they were limited poly-wise.
(http://shipyards.relicnews.com/kushan/images/scout1.jpg)
As you can see the amount of grey far outweighs the darker grey "canopy". I think the whole thing was meant to be raised and armored like I described above.
As you can see, the Taiidan Scout followed a similar design ethos:
(http://shipyards.relicnews.com/taiidan/images/scout2.jpg)
This is the problem that you'll get with "re-imagining" classic ships like in the Homeworld series - you'll always end up with people thinking that you did it the wrong way :D
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I can rebuild them that way... but it would mean dispensing with the virtual cockpit completely. There is no way you would be able to actually see out of those windows at all, unless the viewpoint were placed right up close to the top glass pane. I can do it that way...but I think it would look pretty poor.
It is not a big deal to rebuild.... the question is really:
a) Do people think I should stick to the chunky stoack look
b) Do people think that the ships would be better with more canopy and a full virtual cockpit.
I can't see how I can do both and still make it look good. I am assuming the Homeworld ships were not relying on actual visibility to see, but would use screens or head up on the pilots visor to show what was out there. The glass panels may just be there to make the pilot feel less like he was in a flying coffin!
The Taiidan design is easier to copy. The cockpit is more upright and would actually allow proper forward visibility.
Mucxh as I like virtual cockpits, I am increasingly of the opinion that they are actually less 'realistic' in a space fighter that the HUD only view. It would make a lot more sense to give full visibility to a pilot through camera and VR helmet setups. Need guidance here!
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Best would probably be placing the pilot exactly into the fighter's center of gravity so that rotational forces would be minimized...
Though got to say that IMO Kushan HW 1 graphics more or less represent sort blocky cockpit with windows.. Non surprisingly very much like HW2 Hiigaran Interceptor and Bomber
Pics and stats of those (http://shipyards.relicnews.com/hw2/index_hiigaran.html)
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I started working on one of the assault frigate ages ago... What I did was maintain the shape (not rounding things) however I extruded many of the big panels.
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With a flourish of trumpets, and a fanfare worthy of the launch of the newest additon to the fleet, I give you:
The Kushan Scout.
(http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/5022/screen0013cv6.jpg)
(http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/6333/screen14ia7.jpg)
The texture is a panel-lined plain version at the moment, which will be overpainted with suitable Kushan colourschemes. I haven't made up my mind yet which colours to go for..... but that will be a simple alteration to the base PSD file I made the DDS from. I also need to come up with a design for a pilot....
Cool :)
I'd suggest, if people want to argue about which is the right 'reimagining', checking the concept art? I don't know the link offhand, but I have a huge zip somewhere of HW1 and HW2 concepts from some website somewhere :)
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Ahh....this would be what you mean :D
(http://shipyards.relicnews.com/concept/images/prod_hw_screens_c_8.jpg)
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Although you don't want to work for us (TAP) would you be adverse to us using your models anyway? Yes they don't look dead-accurate to the original game but then your building them how you want to build them, not how other people are telling you to and thats why this is fun for you I guess. Working for a team would turn it onto actual work so we wont ask you for specifics, or ask you to change the models from how you want to build them. HW2 & TAP are set 100 years after HW1 & CAT anyway so it doesn't so much matter to us if they look too different. But since your making them anyway ... :D
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I was just gonna say, take a look at HW2 a bit.
What's TAP by the way? is it to HW2 what Cataclysm was to HW1?
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TAP is a Homeworld TC for freespace 2, but we're focusing on bringing the HW2 ships in Fs2 rather than the originals.
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Your work looks good mate. Can't wait to play them. :D
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Been rather overly busy with 'real' work to get much done, but I have not been entirely inactive!
I have decided to rebuild the cockpit of the Kushan Scout... going to make it a bit more 'heavy duty' and incorporate some ideas from the concept art for the screen layout. I want to get this right, since it will form the overall pattern for the heavy fighter design as well. Since this craft will be used a lot...I want it to be as good as I can get it. The mapping and model have a natural break to let me do this, so I won't have much to re-build.
In the meantime...I have started work on something a bit different. It's starting to take shape ;)
(http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/2685/startvt8.jpg)
Don't now why...but I have this terrible urge to eat a banana.....
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Is Nice. I Like.
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I personally feel that those cockpits are about twice as big as they should be, the scout looks like about as big as an A-wing, maybe smaller still.
Other than that, though, it's all very impressive. I'd especially like to see a hi-poly capital ship, like an assault frig or a destroyer.
Ya got a website set up for this mod that we can gaze at?
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Once I finish the main mesh for the Mothership, I will turn my attention back to the smaller ships until I have a small pack of fighters to release as a 'dogfight' pack.
Then I will start work on the basic frigate, the resource collector and corvettes ( if I don't do them for the pack ). The basic frigate makes the basis of a whole series of units, so I plan to make it a fairly modular construction.
No website as yet..... maybe when things have moved along a bit further.
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Say Flare would you like the assault frigate? I started HTLing a couple years ago and got bored.
Detailing is based on the original textures
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v356/Shodan_AI/AFrigate1.jpg)
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Scooby..I might get back to you on that when I get around to the Taiidan stuff... for now, though, I got all the mesh I can handle to UV and paint!!!!
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(http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/701/untitled2ax1.jpg)
This is the redesign of the cockpit for the Scout. I prefer this...and I think the cockpit has come out nicer too. I have made it more 'chunky' but have modified the 'basic' design by extending the cockpit glass down a little to give some visibility. I think it is truer to the original, and also fits with how I think it should have looked!
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Looks good except for the little extended bit down the front :) IMO anyway, you don't have to listen to me, lol.
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Lol... the little 'extended' piece was intended to help the pilot see where he was shooting. It can easily be filled in if you reckon it would improve the look.
edit... I have compromised slightly... the bottom glass panel has been filled in, which gives the nose a more solid look. There is still a slight bit of glasswork there to aid vision..which I like...so I am keeping it ;)
Next on the building blocks is the heavy fighter :D
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You worry too much about pilot visibility - just move the eyepoint a little higher and more forward than normal, and you're set :)
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Light Interceptor is finally finished :D ... apart from some minor tweaking of the eyepoint. As this shot shows...it needs moving back a fraction, and ovre a bit to get it perfectly centred.
(http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/6672/screen0014xj2.jpg)
From the outside, she looks like this:
(http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/8536/screen0015da6.jpg)
With that work done, I have started to build the Heavy Interceptor. I will be using the same basic cockpit, and most of the nose structure...so I had bit of a headstart!
(http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/8527/screen0016tu7.jpg)
Going to continue building this one later...but I think I have done enough for one day ;)
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well...ok...perhaps I can do a little teensy weensy bit more....
So I started this little ship. No prizes for guessing what this one is!
(http://img77.imageshack.us/img77/8003/rctj0.jpg)
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More progress, and some major breakthroughs. With a bit of outside help, I found out how to make the nebulae trails appear on demand, and have made soe coloured ones to boot! I also completed a couple of extra vessels:
(http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/43/proxal8.jpg)
This is the Kushan proximity sensor. It's just sensors and an engine.... so it dodn't take long to build!
With some additional help, I was pointed in the right direction to control which coloured engine glows were used ( again, this is defined in the ship table now ) so I can colour match both trails and engine glow.
(http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/7017/trailrx1.jpg)
Finally, on todays list of progress, we have a new vessel in the fleet. Equipped with an experimental cloaking device, these Kushan fighters are pictured here undergoing weapons tests.
(http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/8329/cloakyv9.jpg)
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Ladies and Gentlemen...I have a problem....
I have completed work on the heavy and light Defenders for the Kushan fleet, which will also be player flyable. I can't decide, though, how best to set up the guns. If I stick to the true 'Homeworld' approach, these are gimballed, and effetively operate as turrets with limited arc of fire. I can do this...but for a player flyable craft, the guns would be AI controlled. You would direct the ship to allow the guns to bear..but you would have no control over the actual target fired on.
The alternative is to make them fixed and locked, and operate as normal guns. This would lose some of the elegance of the design, but would make it more controllable. I could live with this more if someone could tell me how I could make the guns retract and then pop out when the trigger was pulled. Guns and gun arms are seperate pieces on both models, so they can be easily rigged either way.
I can't decide which would be more successful in the game, and what effect it would have on playability if the guns were AI managed. The defenders in HW proper never engage multiple targets as far as I could see in the skirmish HW games I set up to watch them in action.... but I could be wrong there too!
Anyone got any suggestions here?
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Maybe make the third gun a firing point and the two side guns turreted?
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Talk to Nuke (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,44777.0.html) :D
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UT.... the half and half approach was something I considered for the Heavy Defender..but the light defender has only 2 guns and no belly gun. this would have to be fully turretted. The more I think about it..the more I think that is how I will make the thing operate.
Other options are going to require SExp stuff or scripting.....or something along those lines. I don't know enough about how all that works to do the thing that way yet. I keep all the basic models in Max format before final conversion, so I can easily go back and alter the mesh to make it work differently later on if need be..but I suspect that the pivot points I will set for turreting will be correct for anything else I may need to do anyway..so the POF file should be almost correct. Might need to change a few names..thats all. Unless someone can help me to understand how it would work otherwise.
I would need the gun arms to fold out, then the guns to rotate into a straight ahead position, followed by firing. Once the trigger is released, the guns would need to move back in. If I needed a seperate key to deploy the guns, they would have to be prevented from firing until deployed.
1) Press key to deploy guns
2) Allow firing
3) press key to close up guns and block firing again.
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The light defender was taken out of the game though...
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Flying defender would be utterly boring anyway.. semi-mobile fleet defence 'fighter' (closer to a platform) that is too weakly armored to take on a corvette and too slow to cause any trouble to fighters or bombers.. Why wont you just make those into 'non-player' fighters.. That is leave it up to AI to fly with those things.
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The idea is, as far as the mission storyline goes, that pilots start out as part of a defense squadron, and are flying these units early on. Once you survive the first few missions as fleet defence, you can graduate on to fly scouts, fighters and bombers.
It's a way to increase the total number of player flyable units for each side. A lot of the ships in the mod are not player flyable, and would never be so. I want to make as many as I can flyable, so I have included the defender and it's less armed light defender. They may have dropped it from the game... but they left both the mesh and the stats in the BIG file!
This would leave the Kushan flyable list as follows:
Scout - complete and in game
Heavy Interceptor - modelled not UV'd
Heavy Defender - complete awaiting POF
Light Defender - complete awaiting POF
Bomber - not done yet
All the other ships will be AI only, so we do not have a wide selection of flyables to begin with. I trust making the guns turrets will help to make up for the lack of speed
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There is also the issue which might actually be useful to you with fighter/bomber turrets.. IIRC they shoot only at the targeted enemy.
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Wanderer....if that is right, and once you target an enemy they focus fire on that..then that settles it! I'll build them that way and test to see how the turrets behave. If they work OK like that, I will keep them..but if they don't feel right or behave in a way that lets you feel like you are actually in command of the things, then I will look for a more complex solution to get what I want.
If turrets could be forced to focus only on the targetted vessel....then I could almost justify making flyable corvettes.....
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What'd be nifty is to be able to have the game target several enemies at once then allow the pilot to choose which of them to engage.
Present day fighter weapons systems can target many more things than the mumber of missles available onboard. Then it's up to the pilot or WSO (in two seat aircraft) to select what he wants to blow to tiny bits. The ordnance computer can then engage as many targets at once as there are missiles available.
'Course such maximum attack scenarios rarely happen, mainly due to there not having been any conflicts with that many enemy fighters available to shoot at since such sophisticated systems were developed.
It'd still be cool in the game! Assign the ordnance computer to use your missles as required while you, the pilot, do evasive manuvers and fire the guns- with instant override of the ordnance computer as simple as hitting the missile button to launch at your current gun target.
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That sort of multi-targetting would be good...but that would be down to the SCP people to implement! I can only work with what the game is capable of :)
It certainly is ironic that games based on futuristic space combat provide far less sophisticated avionics than current fighter jets. Probably would make for a boring game if you could just pull up a list of targets and engage them all by a menu click......In real life, killing them before they kill you is the ABSOLUTE priority, and anything that makes it quicker is good. For a game, though, you want more of a challenge. Real life pilots don't have the opportunity to re-fly the mission ;)
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Actually i would like too see fighter/bomber turrets to be able to target other than the targeted ship, perhaps via subsys flags or something, just to make the bomber defense turrets actually defend the bomber during bombing runs.
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Ideally, you would want them to be switchable between 'fixed' targetting, and 'free' defence mode. That way you would have them all swivelling round to focus on the targetted object, or free to pick their own target ...presumably the nearest 'hostile' object, and blast away at that.
Something for the SCP crew to think about! It would make a lot of new things possible and give some real flexibility to weapon usage.
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I highly agree.. as of right now bomber turrets aren't useful at all. They should give priority to hostile fighters first then hostile capships.
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Just to mention in Macross VO, if there are 12 targets and you have 24 missiles, they each get 2 missiles fired at them when you shoot... Personally I'd find it a bit overwhelming in some situations
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A major difference between videogames and reality when it comes to fighter operations is the amount of time an individual ship can commit to battle. While an F-16 can take quite a while to fly to and from the fight, the total duration of its fighting ability is measured in minutes- based on the number of rounds it carries for the Vulcan cannon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M61_Vulcan) and that gun's firing rate. Duration for other ordnance is measured in seconds- once it's launched or dropped, that's all there is, gotta hightail it back home to the carrier or airbase.
In a heavy fight, any present day one or two seat fighting aircraft would be hard pressed to extend its combat duration to five minutes total shooting time. Planes like the A-10 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-10_Thunderbolt_II) do a bit better by filling a large part of the plane with ammunition, or like the C-130 gunships- use a bigger plane to carry more ammo. (And more guns!)
In contrast, a game like Freespace offers the pilot unlimited 'bullets' and easy topping off of missiles or bombs anywhere a safe spot to stop can be found. Combat time can be extended to hours, or until you get a cramp in your joystick wrist.
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Uh... I thought that the A-10 could only do 30-15 seconds of continuous fire (1400 rounds with a ROF 2100-4200 rounds per minute)... [/boring nitpicking]
*runs*
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Enters 'planegeek mode' .....
The A10 uses an standard Avenger GAU-8 cannon. The GAU-8 itself weighs 281 kg (620 lb), but the complete weapon, with feed system and drum, weighs 1,830 kg (4,029 lb) with a maximum ammunition load. It measures 19 ft ½ in (5.81 m) from the muzzle to the rearmost point of the ammunition system, and the ammunition drum alone is 34.5 in (86 cm) in diameter and 71.5 in (1.82 m) long. (Spick, 2000, p. 44). The magazine can hold 1,350 rounds, although 1,174 is the more normal load-out. Muzzle velocity with armor-piercing incendiary (API) ammunition is 3,250 ft/s (990 m/s), almost the same as the substantially lighter M61 Vulcan's 20mm round.
The standard ammunition mixture for anti-armor use is a four-to-one mix of PGU-14/B Armor-Piercing Incendiary (API), with a projectile weight of about 15.0 oz (425 grams or 6,560 grains) and PGU-13/B High Explosive Incendiary (HEI) rounds, with a projectile weight of about 12.7 oz (360 grams). The PGU-14/B round incorporates a depleted uranium penetrator. The Avenger is lethal against tanks and any other armored vehicle. The use of the depleted-uranium round is controversial, with some reports linking its use to health problems among both survivors of DUP attacks and servicemen involved in the loading and handling of the rounds. Residual DU in soil (and thus water-tables) has also been implicated in a sharp spike in birth defects observed in certain areas of Iraq immediately after the Gulf War.
A very important innovation in the design of the GAU-8/A shells is the use of aluminium alloy cases in place of the traditional steel or brass. This alone adds 30% to ammunition capacity for a given weight. The shells also have plastic driving bands to improve barrel life. They are imposing to examine and handle, measuring 11.4 in (290 mm) in length and weighing 1.53 lb (694 g) or more. (Spick, 2000, p. 44).
Originally, the Avenger's rate of fire was switchable between 1,800 rounds per minute (RPM) and 4,200 RPM. In later modifications, the 4,200 RPM rate of fire was deleted and replaced with a slightly lower 3900 RPM. Also the low rate of fire (1800 RPM) was deleted as being tactically inferior to a high rate of fire - it is better to ensure a first-time kill by using a high rate of fire, rather than having to make a risky second pass just to put a sufficient number of rounds on the target [1]. In practice, the cannon is limited to one and two-second bursts to avoid overheating and conserve ammunition; barrel life is also a factor, since the USAF has specified a minimum 21,000-round life for each set of barrels. It is also said that this is to deal with the substantial deceleration of the plane that results from firing .
The GAU-8/A ammunition is linkless, reducing weight and avoiding a great deal of potential for jamming. The feed system is double-ended: the spent casings are not ejected from the aircraft (which takes a great deal of force if the possibility of severe airframe damage is to be eliminated) but are cycled back into the ammunition drum. The feed system is based on that developed for later M61 installations, but uses more advanced design techniques and materials throughout, to save weight.
Anyway.... can we slide this topic slightly back towards Homewolrd ;) should have some pics up later of the Defenders...and I have started work on the Taiidan light fighter ships.
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First off... here is a distant view of some action. Taiidan and Kushan light craft in combat. Taiidan trails should be a lot more orangey... and the Kushan ones are now a more correct white colour!
(http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/5183/battleth2.jpg)
And this...
(http://img61.imageshack.us/img61/5461/defenderat8.jpg)
Is the heavy defender. The light defender is also done, and this does not have the third belly gun. On the heavy defender, the lower gun is player operated and fixed. On both craft, the left and right wing guns are turrets with a 30 degree FOV. Seems to work quite well overall.
Now..I need to finish off the texture map for the Heavy Interceptor, and get stuck into the Taiidan craft!
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The heavy interceptor is done....and that completes the player flyables for the Kushan side.
(http://img57.imageshack.us/img57/3821/hintja6.jpg)
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Apart from forgetting to build the Kushan Bomber.... work is now 100% Taiidan this weekend!
(http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/2885/taiidansf3.jpg)
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Very nice. I certainly look forward to playing around with these ships and what ever campaigns you may come up with for them :)
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I do like that Taiidan Scout. Will you be using the default Yellow/Red color scheme?
(I'm not a huge fan of that white/black scheme used for the Kushan though - could you at least dirty it up, add some paint nicks, etc?)
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I never played Homeworld with Taiidan craft painted any other colour! Yellow and red are the planned colour schemes for the Taiidan. The Kushan ones will not be staying black and white either. The textures I have on them are the 'blanks' that I will do the colour schemes on top of. The Taiidan ones will start out the same way. It lets me do the detail and get the panel lines on. Then I add the colour, and finally I 'weather' and dirty them a bit. I was going to leave the Kushan on their default colourschemes... but I might also find something that will contrast nicely with the Taiidan scheme.
I must admit, though, I find the Taiidan light craft a lot easier to model. The designs are somehow more.... pleasing! Mind you...the Kushan Corvettes are nicer than the Taiidan equivalents!
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Just a small update! I have been playing about with turrets to get the correctly orientated turrets I need, and that has been taking up most of my modding time. I have, however, got started on the texture for the Taiidan Scout.... not looking too bad so far!
(http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/9302/untitled1rf5.jpg)
EDIT: Mapping all finished. and the cockpit done. She is ready to go in game!
(http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/158/untitled2gj6.jpg)
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(http://img362.imageshack.us/img362/3351/battleed2.jpg)
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This looks great! I hope you do make the corvette's flyable... minelayers included; I loved the Kushan design. Always loved the feel of flying a corvette in IWar(2), and the missions you could do with these would be fantastic... Given their size and presumably slower handling, some missions involving steering through a debris or otherwise obstacle-filled field, while maximizing your gunners targets, would be fun. Flying through a field of hulks even as the surviving capital ships duke it out, or flying at full speed through an asteroid field laying mines under a timelimit (to surprise a smuggler, for instance).
As far as mission entries go, do you plan on using the docked-to-jumping-supply-frigate method for smaller insertions/extractions?
I could just see this really hitting it off with the MP community, as many of the frigates are singular enough in purpose to be feasibly player controlled; assault frigates have their powerful fixed forward guns, and the ion cannon frigates would be interesting to play as...
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hey, those tidanii ships looke so real, I could almost swear you've got some developers from Relic working with you.
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hey, those tidanii ships looke so real, I could almost swear you've got some developers from Relic working with you.
Certainly would explain how he's pumping them out so fast. :eek2:
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:cool: I have in fact kidnapped hte entire Relic team, and have them in a box in my shed... it's cruel but necessary!
I am pretty pleased with the way the Taiidan Scout has turned out....it just seemed to have gone right from the start! Happens likr ythat sometimes. It also helps that I used to play Taiidan rather than Kushan in HW anyway...so I know the shapes and have a feel for how I think they should be.
I have been modelling for a good few years, so while I am new to FS2, I am not knew to modding. All I needed to do was to learn a few specifics and get to grips with the conversion process to turn ships into game objects. The Max plugin works well for me (once you get to grips with it's little foibles! ) and I know Max well.
Once I finish off the rest of the Taiidan light craft and drones etc. I need to turn out 1 capship per side .. and a Support Frigate would be a logical choice, along with aresource collector. I want to get a basic dogfight package together first, so I can release something for playtesting and fun ( and to maybe inspire someone to make me some missions ;) )
Player flyable Corvettes are a distinct possibility... They are not so huge as to be reallya capship, and look to be single pilot with a proper cockpit ... so that helps. The only reason I didn't plan them originally was down to lack of mission ideas. If there is enough reason to do them, all I have to do is add a cockpit! That's np big chore! Flyable Frigates would be a similar proposition.... though obviousely, the cockpit would need to be a 'bridge' ... and the player would be limited to controlling the direct fire weapons. I can see how that would be fun iin MP!
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I really doubt people would have the patience to pilot any frigates.. That is capship were always in formations in the HW, not only much point-and-shoot stuff.
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If you get me the Trikor, instant fan!
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Trikor ... thats 'the Taiidan Heavy Interceptor as I recall .... or, as I prefer to call it... the ship I am currently modelling :D
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Cool, just be sure to center the fighter correctly. The fighter's center of gravity was shifted in between the massive gun and body and if you get this in.... time to roll the gun! I'm going to love that tactic!
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Well, I enjoyed playing Kushan more. It's canon, and I always thought cloaked fighters and drone frigates were more useful than DF frigates and Defense Fighters.
I just got an awesome idea for some HW campaigns. First, have the original campaign, with the mothership going home. Then, have a post-homecoming campaign for both the Higarans and the Taiidani. Then do Homeworld 2, and various adventures post-hyperspace network thing discovery.
I wish there were a balanced way to do the other side of things during the canon timeline, but it's so unbalanced it's rediculous. The Taiidani controlled the majority of the galaxy when the Higarans returned home, but then the Higarans basically crushed througn the empire. So basically the only way to win as the Taiidani would totally and completely throw off the storyline. Also same with the Vagyr. The Vagyr basically owned everything until the end of the game.
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The campaign element is something I am still working on ... The more ideas I get here the better right now!
As far as ships go, I am focusing purely on the original HW ships. There are also the Cataclysm ones to consider later on ...but I want to focus on building a solid and well balanced set of ships for the core ships. Then I need to do a lot of work on the missions and campaign! Then....well...we will see :D
For Homeworld 2, though, there is already a project to do that one. Check out the Apocalypse Project in the mods section.
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Impressive, although IIRC some concept art showed the Taiidani Scout as being a two-seater :)
As to the campaign, I was thinking the best way to have it would be to have constantly changing orders through a long mission (would be nice to have the coders enable mid-mission saves, dunno if that's possible). Like you begin the mission flying out of the hanger, then wait, then a few minutes later you are ordered to guard a resource ship against some bad guys. Then after that you're told to refuel, then you're launched with a strike force.
That would more simulate the actual, say, skirmish matches of Homeworld, although you could always just make it more storyline-structured like a traditional campaign :)
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Or maybe you could use a lot of red alert missions, followed by other red alert missions, followed by other... Ok, I'll stop there :)
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I guess flying capital ships is sort a of a niche thing, then... although, you haven't lived until you've come out debris cloud, all turrets blazing- and possibly shouting "damn the torpedos, full speed ahead!" to yourself. As long as corvettes- multiguns and minelayers especially- are flyable, though, I'll be in Hiigaran heaven. Another mission idea...
Flying through the Garden of Kadesh during an EMP storm, part of a small wing of EMP-shielded stealth fighters tasked with eliminating a patrol group of scattered Swarmer Fuel Ships. The player will have to avoid Swarmer patrols, and then tail them as they return to refuel, and then destroy the Fuel Ship with the fighters still docked. Besides the risk of being detected, the player could also be actively stalked by a few multibeam corvettes, with a potential ambush at the last fuel ship.
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I quite like the idea of the linked orders in a mission idea. I want to try and build the missions so they represent something that would / could happen in a game of HW1. I want to braodly sync it with the overall campaign to an extent, with the initial training missions, followed by the Mothership returning after it's test to find the bad guys etc. The first serious mission would be, of course, the defending of the cryo trays while they are secured aboard, followed by the jump off to search for 'home'. Of course, not all the missions fit or would be fun for a single player campaign, but I want to include as many fun elements as possible. There are plenty of options here, and I want to make sure I bring as many diverse elements in as I can. This will be a challenge for a FRED dunce like me... but life is for learning!
It's good to stimulate discussion here ( it's what a forum is all about ) to get a feel for what people would like and what ideas can go into the mix once the ship departs from Kharak in search of Hiigara. There is such a wealth of potential material it's a big challenge. The big mission 'waypoints' will be worked in where possible, to give overall direction.... but there would obviousely be a lot of patrol and scouting missions in between along with potential trouble and conflict along the way. Loads to think about! I will keep all the mission ideas people post here in mind for when I start the serious planning. There are some good ones in this thread already!
In fact..the more I think about it..the more of a monster it becomes! I started out just wanting to make a few higher polygon higher detail ships with a vague idea of 'a few missions to shoot at some ships' ... and now it's turning into a full-on project!
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May I suggest basing your Salvage corvettes on the Omega Transports in some way, to make docking ports and stuff easier? IDK much about modeling and all that, but it just occurred to me that there may be a way for that to make it easier on you.
Quick question: Do fighters have shields in this?
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No shields for fighters. I don't think the ships in HW1 had shields, and it makes little difference to the game balance, since the weapons used are all based around the same sort of approach. I will balance ship strength by armour values. The only shielded ships will be the ones with defence shields!
The other thing I need to work on is having ships start doclked
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that'll make gameplay VERY interesting. Shielded areas ships can be within, rather than shielded ships. Sounds awesome! Except, make sure missiles have a peirce shield flag on, because DF Frigates couldn't stop missiles.
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I found that the B5 mod with no shields made for some very intense dogfighting... and I liked it :D I will be using the pierce shields thing ( another extra that the SCP has added making things more how I need them! )
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Well ... after an overly stressful work-induced break from modding... we have finally got the Trikor mesh finished, mapped and into the sprayshop!
(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/518/untitled1ke3.jpg)
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Awesome :D! I love those fighters. Please please remember the reason this fighter was even allowed into the Taiidani navy: It can do... interesting things with its unusual center of gravity.
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Check.... model centre somewhere midway between gun and fuselage. As an aside... can I make a submodel have a 'weight' or does the game engine just spread the weight thoughout the ship around the MOI?
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Errr... You probably mean 'center of gravity' and not 'moment of inertia'.. Well you can define those for the model.. getting proper values for MOIs is whole another story.
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Sweetness, the Taiidan interceptor was my favorite design from that game. :)
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Progress to date ( which got slowed a little by the opening of th Moto GP season and me dusting off my GSX1100 Katana for summer :) )
(http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/3738/untitled2fh0.jpg)
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Its coming along :D Now I'm getting an urge to play HW again.
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I just played a match over the LAN at school with my friend. Whooped his ass :D
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Finally...the Trikor is ready to go into the FS2 engine :D
(http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/5286/untitled3zu9.jpg)
And..just to relieve the boredom, this is th eearly work on the Kushan Support Frigate. The turret and engine section will form the base for all the other Frigates too, so it will be work that I will get good value from!
(http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/9830/frigateyw1.jpg)
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nicely done!
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Coz I am a sharing kind of guy ..... check this link out :D
http://www.hwshots.hwaccess.net/main.php?g2_itemId=5442
This is where I am getting a lot of my inspiration from, and it's a real treat for Homeworld fans!
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I gotta say, that Interceptor is giving me a screaming orgasm :D
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VERY nice!
Someone had one fo those craft in Sword Anvil Hammer (order?) mod but it was a straight conversion I think. I really like your texture work, it's crisp and viewable at point blank range. :yes:
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Now I really want to have a Kushan Banana Mommy Ship for lunch! Flying one of those is gonna be sweet!
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The big banana is under construction...but it's not a quick build. There will be plenty of greebling and detail :D
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i wanna fly that trikor!
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Trikor is nearly done as far as POF goes. Converted the damn thing, only to find that the thing had re-positioned itself. I need to go back to Max and re-set the origin for the mesh so it doesn't centre it on the hull centre, but rather has the centre offset to the gun side.
It was that way in Max, but the conversion shifted it, leaving the viewpoint outside the ship and the engine glow offset...DOH!
Time to re-set the centre and then re-set the Xform again. Easy job....but annoying!!!!
MAde some more of the Frigate, and started work on the Kushan Corvettes. I need to finish those and the Taiidan ones before I have the basic 'Dogfight' pack ready. Then I will throw together some training missions and get an initial release...then comes the hard work to REALLY finish the rest of the ships :D
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Oh, I had that problem once but it had to do with debris appearing out of place. It was all because the pivot was not at center. I guess you already fixed the pivot thing by now. That should do it.
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Yeah :) It just bugged me that I didn't spot it until I had finished POF'ing all the details!
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You tell me :D, I never knew what the problem was for months!
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Mine was easy to spot!
The engine glow, cockpit viewpoint and gun points were all over to one side! Everything was perfectly lined up in Max, and everything was out by exactly the same amount! Could only be the centre, since the conversion process doesn't care what shape the mesh is... it just positions the centre of the object at the 0,0,0 point and goes from there.
The beauty of a forum like this is that you can put mistakes out there so new guys don't make them....or, at least...when they do, they fix them quicker! Now...back to the mesh-making!!!!
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For those of you who have been following the progress of the mod, I bring good news!
I am now not a lone-modder .... but I have a TEAM! Well...I have a willing volunteer with a great knowledge of Homeworld and posessing a lot of the skills I lack! Weapons are well underway with proper sounds to go with them. Step forward , Tempest!
We need to do some tweaking of the firepoints and weapon banks to fit with the 6-shot burst weaponry on the scouts, but this is worth the effort.
We have also been through and drawn up the list of ships to build, assigned the names ( canon wherever they exist, and good substitute where they don't ) plus we have finalised what will be in the initial release. This has been made a lot easier by the fact that Tempest suggested a whole load of things which I had already been thinking of doing....and when you have someone else in the team who thinks we need exactly the same things....then it is generally called a 'Good Thing'.
Whilst I have nothing visual to show for all this, it has helped move things along, confirm what we need to do, and get a much more solid plan than my 'build all the ships nad work out what to do next' approach!
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We need to do some tweaking of the firepoints and weapon banks to fit with the 6-shot burst weaponry on the scouts, but this is worth the effort.
A six-shot burst is easy enough to do. Just set a $Shot: count of 6 with an $fov: of, what...0? Check the wiki under weapons.tbl for a more detailed explanation of where those go,etc. :)
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That would make a six shot shotgun
For bursts you would probably want to use either swarm weapons with properly swarmwait values... or tweak the energy settings so that weapons just can not fire more than six shots before being drained.
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We have a definite plan to sort this ...but I only made the guns with a single firepoint, and we don't want the thing to work that way. Instead, I need to give the thing 6 firepoints per bank so it can cycle through the points.
Max is a nice tool for this kind of tweaking! I saved each model in Max with the final setup, so I can easily go back and do this. I just need to note down the eye-points and type that back in after Max makes me a new POF!
Going to take a 10 day break from this though...taking the family away on holiday, and the wife would kill me if I even suggested the portability of a laptop ;)
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Guys, about making a burst weapon, I tried really hard about a year ago and couldn't do it. This solution is just as good, if not better, for freespace style combat. The way the burst needs to work is to fire just a few shots, and then recharge. It's not a shotgun. I can simulate this by looping the effect once, and using the energy value to make you wait before firing again. However, anyone know of a looping flag, in the works or operational? I don't want to make a new sound effect :(.
I think there are seven or eight shots in the sound effect, but six would make more sense. This is going to be SO sick. I've ALWAYS wanted to fly a Homeworld fighter, especially the Triikor, and now I get to do it. It's funny, there's also a Freespace mod for homeworld 2. It looks pretty cool.
Just a question for any Homeworld fans out there, do you think Cataclysm should be included in the final release? I like cataclysm personally, but I know a lot of people don't. I want to fly a super acolyte. Certainly, though, there's enough to work with in just homeworld.
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Yeah, I like it too though I get the strange feeling that some people would pound you for not including combinable acolytes. I would love to see a dreadnought in this mod but a homeworld mod is enough for now.
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It's not incredibly difficult to get the homeworld backgrounds ingame. The skybox system is very similar, just Homeworld decided to use a very unique way of gnerating the background bitmap, and you can't just rip it from the game files. Instead, you have to stitch it together. Very very time consuming. The end product is very, very rewarding, though, because it's very cool to fly around in such amazingly detailed, varied, and beautiful space.
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o116/Tempest_77/sample.png)
Factoring in all ships that will be eventually included, the current list of ships stands at about 100 ships. A lot of progress is being made, and the mod will be pretty amazing, graphically. Since it's from a fighter's perspective, the battles will be fleshed out a lot more, and require specific ships to be disabled, etc. We're looking right now at a 60-odd ship, 7 mission demo release that will finish up with Diamond Shoals. The nice thing is, that even though we're remaking almost every ship, and so it will look fresh, yet true to the origional.
Also, I've gone over the Homeworld data files, and have ripped pretty much everything out that I need. This means we're going to have a balance that homeworld itself had, which is pretty exiting. It will be very authentic, and very fun.
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Cool and awesome. But *sniff* I would be too devastated again to witness Kharac burning again if I would have to play that mission! Jk, I would avenge the many Kiiths and save those 600,000 still in orbit. Indeed that WOULD be an interesting mission. In fact, it is absolutely perfect for FS2 I imagine. Destroy fighters, destroy and capture a frigate or more if you disable them, and oversee rescue of cryo pods.
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Yeah, we'll be using FREDED cutscenes to show the burning of Kharak. It is going to be a very, very important mission, as it's really the turning point, as there's no reason to go back.
Flare isn't back yet, but when he is we can merge his models with my table and background data and start playtesting. Wohoo!
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One thing I sort of worry about in regards to balance though. Obviously, the player's ship won't be as expendable as the average scout is. I'm not saying you need to be able to take out a dozen heavy cruisers with Assault Frigate and Multi-Gun corvette escort in a scout with no wingmen (Wait a sec, alpha 1 could do it!), but I hope missions are realistically survivable. Finding that balance is hard to do, so good luck.
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True... true. Very true... Perhaps early ingame we will be doing lots of dogfighting while later on we will be defending bombers or doing bombers. But corvettes aren't THAT big so we could fly as those later on... Just to say the extreme, perhaps very late ingame we will pilot capital ships. For instance, since the Kushan Destroyer has fixed beam cannons we could pilot the destroyer and control only the beams. Dismiss this if you like, but I would nearly do anything to pilot a capital ship. Even if it has to be an ion cannon frigate!
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I find this mod particularly awesome, because I'm one of the people who used to use the cockpit view option in HW1, the one that required enabling a command line option just to use it. I loved to feel like I was one of the little buggers flying around strafing frigates
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I can actually see the player flying capital ships more than I can see them flying corvettes. Frigates, in paticular, are perfect. The Firelance and Vengeance class frigates are both perfect, because they have fixed-firing weapons that are powerful. On the Firelance you'd be using the Ion Beam, and in the vengeance you'd be using the fixed plasma bombs. Corvettes, on the other hand, have all of their turrets rotating, and that won't really be usable. You might be able to fly them, as only the pilot, since they normally have crews of 3. It'd be boring, though.
Actually, the Kushan Revelation class destroyer has rotating ion beams, which gives it an edge in destroyer combat. The obvious counter is that the Skaal-Tel has double-barreled mass drivers, so while the Skaal-Tel is more adaptable overall, the Revelation has an accuracy edge in capital ship combat.
As far as balance goes, the player will get promoted to bigger and bigger ships the whole game, to maintain scale. By the end mission, you'll be flying (and at that point, have to fly) Firelances or Vengeances. The Demo release will be fighter-only, though. Dogfighting is going to be very, very tense and exiting because there will be a lot more ships then you see in Freespace, in general.
Also, there is a giant balance change from Freespace that I'd like to now bring up. In freespace, bombers are VERY slow and VERY armored, and rape capital ships. In homeworld, they're pretty speedy (150m/s, interceptor is 165, scout is 200) and they're the most fragile strike craft. This balances the ship out, in a way. You just can't ever beat dedicated strike craft in a bomber. Also, plasma bombs require, in the canon fiction, to shunt drive plasma from the engines. Therefore, part of flying a bomber is energy management; you give engines your all when approaching, then bring gun energy back to fire bombs. You can only fire two shots before you have to recharge (from 0%). Recharging takes from two seconds at max energy to more like twenty seconds at little energy. Your speed also decreases a lot. I can see the defender being abused pretty heavily, though, as three rotating turrets can be pretty fun.
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But see, the problem is that what you're suggesting means that a lot of coding will have to be done to achieve that.
Why can't we just wait for TAP? :wtf:
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What coding? Capships can already be flyable I think, and I think there was discussion on scripting the ability to control turrets. It was already underway, so I don't see much else being needed.
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I can actually see the player flying capital ships more than I can see them flying corvettes. Frigates, in paticular, are perfect. The Firelance and Vengeance class frigates are both perfect, because they have fixed-firing weapons that are powerful. On the Firelance you'd be using the Ion Beam, and in the vengeance you'd be using the fixed plasma bombs. Corvettes, on the other hand, have all of their turrets rotating, and that won't really be usable. You might be able to fly them, as only the pilot, since they normally have crews of 3. It'd be boring, though.
Actually, the Kushan Revelation class destroyer has rotating ion beams, which gives it an edge in destroyer combat. The obvious counter is that the Skaal-Tel has double-barreled mass drivers, so while the Skaal-Tel is more adaptable overall, the Revelation has an accuracy edge in capital ship combat.
As far as balance goes, the player will get promoted to bigger and bigger ships the whole game, to maintain scale. By the end mission, you'll be flying (and at that point, have to fly) Firelances or Vengeances. The Demo release will be fighter-only, though. Dogfighting is going to be very, very tense and exiting because there will be a lot more ships then you see in Freespace, in general.
Also, there is a giant balance change from Freespace that I'd like to now bring up. In freespace, bombers are VERY slow and VERY armored, and rape capital ships. In homeworld, they're pretty speedy (150m/s, interceptor is 165, scout is 200) and they're the most fragile strike craft. This balances the ship out, in a way. You just can't ever beat dedicated strike craft in a bomber. Also, plasma bombs require, in the canon fiction, to shunt drive plasma from the engines. Therefore, part of flying a bomber is energy management; you give engines your all when approaching, then bring gun energy back to fire bombs. You can only fire two shots before you have to recharge (from 0%). Recharging takes from two seconds at max energy to more like twenty seconds at little energy. Your speed also decreases a lot. I can see the defender being abused pretty heavily, though, as three rotating turrets can be pretty fun.
:sigh: Really now, FS2 doesn't support swiveling turrets like that. Unless a turret limiter is scripted it really can't be done... still I would love to someday fly those ships. Um, btw if the controllable turret thing happens will we THEN get to do cap ships?
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Yeah, I wouldn't see why not. Especially because it's stupid to limit player options if the engine supports them. I think it's only a matter of time, given nuke's scripting work.
Here's what I've been working on.
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o116/Tempest_77/SuperNova.png)
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o116/Tempest_77/Qwaar-Jet.png)
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o116/Tempest_77/Scaffold.png)
This is the look we're going for, authentic yet higher poly. Comments? Questions? I want as much community feedback as possible to make this mod as fun as possible!
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Wow. Looking nice. I wish I could give more comments, but I haven't played in a while, all I know is that they look very nice. Nice enough to make me wish you were interested in Star Wars modeling too.
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one word: nice
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What coding? Capships can already be flyable I think, and I think there was discussion on scripting the ability to control turrets. It was already underway, so I don't see much else being needed.
I meant the power to engines then power to weapons when you fire the bombs.
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That's just achieved by using the energy transfer system...nothing more. The bombs are magnetically capsuled plasma, and when the plasma connects with a target, the forward part of the bottle collapses, venting the rest of it onto the hull. That plasma comes from the engines, and the energy is managed with the Guns Shields Energy thing at the bottom. Of course, there aren't any shields, and most dogfights will not really have energy as an issue.
I'm interested in star wars, but it will be a while before I can produce anything for you guys. I've seen videos, though, and i'm really impressed. I've made a bunch of non-universe specific ships, if you're interested, I could show them to you. They could definatly work in star wars.
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We're trying to go for canon stuff right now, but if you've ever made anything that looks like a star wars-ish space station, we might be able to put it to use. There's really no such thing as a canon space station to my knowledge, so who's to argue with what it should look like?
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Goodness Tempest! What are you using to model those!?
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wasn't the Death Star classified as a space station? Also, there was Nar Shaddaa, and I think one or two others from various books. They don't give very good discriptions, though.
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Very impressive :) But you've got a LOT of room to add details into the Scaffold, I'd suggest making it a bit higher poly (especially if you use detail boxes).
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Ok, I've heard enough about these detail boxes. Can you direct me to where I may learn more about them? They seem very interesting.
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I think they're like mini-LODS, for use in incredibly big and detailed objects. I think I saw it used for a borg cube and the Death star in videos I've seen.
Yeah, I'm going to add more detail to the scaffold. There's still a lot of detail in the textures I have yet to bring out, but it's still massively ahead of what the original model looked like. I actually elaborated and added a lot of detail that never existed, but it doesn't seem to be enough. It will look a lot better when textured, though. I remember texturing the orig. model and sticking it in game, and with glow maps it was absolutely stunning.
I'm modeling with Solidworks 2006. It's engineering software, not modeling, but it exports to .wrl, so...I'm comfortable with it. It doesn't deal with any UV stuff, though, which is a big drawback. Still, it's far ahead of nothing.
There's a good thirty ships we're going to see in the demo release, and I'm going to concentrate on those. Flare's doing the Kushan and Taiidan fighters and frigates, so I'm going to try to work on turanic ships and i've also started the Taiidan carrier, although I'm not happy with it right now. I did the Taiidan resource collector, and that freighter from the nebula animatic. There's another freighter too, but it looks like a kadeshi ship, and it'll be a bit harder to model.
These were just quickie jobs. The Resource collector still needs more work, but I'm satisfied with the freighter.
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o116/Tempest_77/Freighter01.png)
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o116/Tempest_77/ResourceCollector.png)
By the way, does anyone know how many times per second that FS2 beam damage is applied? Does anyone know how many times Homeworld beam damage is applied? I have the damage VALUES, but it says "applied many times in a second" so...
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I am proud to present my baby, that i've been slaving over yesterday and today.
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o116/Tempest_77/Bandit.png)
I think it's sexy, and the high polycount can be easily corrected, because I modeled in all of the grills in the exhaust ports. That will be removed, though
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small details realy dont show ingame, like those fine lines on the bandit.
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It is unoptimized. Things change. I will enjoy blasting those out of space :D
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Also, don't listen to takashi. Small details do show up when the light hits them right. Although you might want to remove them to reduce polys and just fudge it with textures and shine maps.
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Although if you want to use the detail, 6k polies is a nice cap for fighters (with aggressive LODing).
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6k oh? Whats the newer recommend count for different size ships now-a-days?
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I'm aiming for 3k for most fighters, especially those without a cockpit. I'm not planning to release any ships without cockpits, though.
The raider corvette is about 50% percent completed, and with the basic shape done I can focus on adding detail, which is pretty easy. I just go by the origional textures to make it as authentic as possible. The Thief and Brigand are basically the same ship with different attachments, so after the thief is done it will take maybe half an hour to finsish the brigand. Pics should come later tonight or tomorrow at the latest.
I've also been sketching out some larger pirate ships. Eventually, i'd like to have the cataclysm raider fleet be fairly large, about 9 ships. Once we finish all of the "real" ships, we may decide to add more ships. The raider fleet seems just so bare bones, and it should be fleshed out completley.
And really, as long as the textures are nice, .dds guys, pollies aren't a huge concern for us. Texturing is. Yay for HT&L! (The average polycount should be maybe 6k for capital ships, maybe more. I'm also planning on including cockpits for each race, and a corvette and fighter cockpit for each. I was THINKING that a frigate bridge would be awesome, but that probably won't happen.
Flare still isn't back yet, either. Hopefully this is because he's been so consumed with pumping out the entire kushan fleet that he hasn't had time to post :)
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Enter the thief. This is the template hull, and the only reason the docking pod is on there is because I can't remove it without some odd things happening to the model...like errors in places nowhere near the pod. Anyway, it's pretty cool, although I went a little overboard on the detail, there are never THAT many corvettes, especially thieves, in an engagement zone, so what's the worry?
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o116/Tempest_77/Thief.png)
The finished products of both ships will probably be 6k pollies, including the cockpit. I'm going to finish up these babies tomorrow, then start on the assassin!
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nice. does it have a bridge behind that glass, like a fighter cockpit?
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Sorry to keep the masses waiting:
First, these guys. They've been sitting here for a bit, although i think they are pretty solid. The brigand will go on a diet, though.
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o116/Tempest_77/RaiderCorvettes.png)
And here's the assasin:
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o116/Tempest_77/Assasin.png)
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I must say, these are all of exceptional quality. Melikes a lot :)
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*waits for goob to yell out "the fsupgrade project needs you!"*
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I recall hijacking 4, maybe 6 of those ion cannon arrays during a single mission. I eventually used them to lure a Taiidani carrier in and steal it :D.
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If there's anything I remember about those ion arrays, it's that the enemy AI always loved to take them down first. That was true for pretty much anything I stole that I couldn't build myself. It was like, their revenge or something for me stealing so much crap I shouldn't have had.
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i wish you could steal in fs2.
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The models look nice and detailed.
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i wish you could steal in fs2.
Through scripted events, yes fleet command will steal enemy ships but too bad we cannot enjoy it ourselves... but that is probably for the best as the enemy AI in Homeworld LOVED to ignore everyone and attack salvage corvettes.
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Thank you. I'm going to finish up the Lord soon, and pics should come on Friday. I've been checking out the various ship concepts on that website flare linked to, and will add detail that I think was removed due to polygon constraints. I think we're going to go with the bridge "cap" that we see on some kushan ships, that was removed for some reason. I think it looks good, although I'd like public opinion on it.
With flare doing the kushan corvettes, I'm probably going to work on the taiidan ones. What ships would you guys most like to see done first? I may also start on the bentusi trade ship, and I want to do the khar-selim, too. There will be a completed model for the ship so in the tech room you can see what it looked like before the raiders got to it.
The Kadeshi and Raider fleets are pretty bare-bones, so i've been drawing up sketches of new ships for both of them, and after the demo is released i'll probably get started on them. For now, though, we're going completely canon.
We might include stealing as a sexp, rewarding players who protect salvage corvettes, or something, but I'm not sure how we're going to deal with a continuous fleet. We'll probably end up with missions that fail if a carrier or cruiser goes down, and we'll make sure only some frigates and destroyers are taken out. Certainly, vigilant players WILL be rewarded, with special ships to fly, like the pirate bandit, the taiidan triikor, and the kadeshi swarmer.
Also, this mod seems like it has excellent mutliplayer potential. I envision "carrier wars" where a kushan and taiidan team go at it, pitting a carrier and frigate versus a carrier and frigate. I think i'd be a lot of fun.
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Yeah, you had to get _real_ good at baiting them away from those things. But there's good reason for it to act that way, the only thing worse than losing your ships is having them fight against you.
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lol, indeed. I'm very sure the Taiidani got really pissed off when I stole 4 of their heavy cruisers in the last mission alone.
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You say we could fly the swarmers?
How could you script the whole fuel thing? Would we have to stay within a certain range of a fuel pod, support frigate, or carrier or something?
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Yeah you could probably script in some sort of timer for running out of fuel, so that it stops your ship if it runs out, and it resets when you rearm.
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Well fuel might be added in due to the requests of certain mods, so you might be able to have actual fuel :)
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Mod-dependent, right? I don't wanna have to worry about fuel in campaigns not fuel-dependent.
Also, how will we handle refueling? Does a person need to fly within a certain radius of a capship? In the docking bay and stop? Call a support ship? In the case of swarmers, there are no support ships in the game except for ones the fighters dock with, and not vice versa. And what happens if you run out of fuel and can't refuel? Do you self-destruct?
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I'm probably going to end up not adding swarmers until fuel support is added, although I was conisdering making the afterburner the regular drives, and somehow causing the support ship to refuel you. It's easier to regulate the support thing with hull integrity and ammunition. Repair corvettes will be called in as support ships and support frigates will probably order you to dock with an autopilot feature.
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Here ya goes.
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o116/Tempest_77/Lord.png)
It's not "done", there's still work I want to do on the hangar, but I wanted to show this for a reason. I changed the front to match more closley with the concept art, and I always thought that the radar dish was out of place up there, seeing as it LOOKS like an ion cannon, and there aren't any radar dishes in homeworld. The front in the concept art looked cooler, so I made it that way.
Plus, it isn't a poly hog like the brigand, which is nice. Now, i'm going to start to finish up the scaffold.
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Here's the swarmer.
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o116/Tempest_77/Swarmer.png)
I've just wanted to get that baby done for a while.
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Man, that brings back some bad memories. And some good ones too. Like salvaging every fuel pod. Those babies were worth a lot of currency. After the Kadesh missions I had something like 15000, mostly from recycling those little buggers.
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Their advanced versions murdered my entire fighter fleet...
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Divine wrath in a small package. One of my all time favorite designs.
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o116/Tempest_77/Kaark.png)
And now, with that bad boy done, I'll FINALLY get started on the taiidan corvettes. I just really wanted to do that one.
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Those look all very impressive :yes:
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Impressive both in asthetics, and in the speed in which you're cranking them out. Can't wait to see the kushan assault frigate.....I always found that design especially pleasing.
You should post these on the Relic Boards, the HW community is still pretty strong there and I'm sure they'd like to see this.
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Raiders Carrier (one of my faviorites in HW game) looks very good, can't wait too see it textured in game.
@Tempest do you gona add ships from HW Cataclysm?
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Yeah.
Cataclysm era ships will be added in an expansion pack. Taiidan corvettes should come later.
I'm planning on releasing the Taiidan corvettes in a big jumbo pack of all 5 of them. Pack is 60% complete.
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I was going to wait, but whatever. 4 are done. Here they are.
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o116/Tempest_77/Tiirshak.png)
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o116/Tempest_77/Raachok.png)
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o116/Tempest_77/Leekor.png)
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o116/Tempest_77/Diirvas.png)
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Coolz :eek:
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OK
that does it.
I'm officially a fan now.
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Thank you guys for all the comments. They're what keep me going. :)
So, maybe a little present is in order.
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o116/Tempest_77/Perdition.png)
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I never liked fighting those. They always annoy me especially when it comes to fighters and salvagers.
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Heh.
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o116/Tempest_77/Revelation.png)
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Eehh...no...I don't like that one. It hardly looks anything at all like the actual in game version :( Especially those turrets hanging off of those giant pylons - the original model had no indication of anything like that, and they look really silly IMO. Also, the big thing on the front, IIRC, is supposed to be antennaes, not some giant probiscus.
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Indeed and the turrets are supposed to be single barreled but I like this one alot.
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Single barreled and the turret itself from behind view is supposed to be full not so you see the shaft of where the turret hangs off.
the shafts need to be removed.
The antennae need ot be made much more fatter. and the length needs to be increased.
other then that it looks good.
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I can easily change the turrets. I was working off a concept art sketch for them; I liked them but I guess you guys don't. They will stay double barreled, though, because the Skaal-Tel is double barreled and it'd be easier to have the Revelation double barreled as well. If you REALLY want it to be single barreled, I can do that too.
Also, the Ions are going to be redone a bit as well. I didn't have a full version of the ship while I was working on it; the one in the .big file places the turrets at origin so I had to work off of memory. I'm going to remove the shaft, and thicken up the cannon itself.
However, other than the turrets, the ship itself is a very faithful replication of the origional. It's practically the same as the Perdition's hull. If you want a side by side comparison of the meshes of both ships, I could, because they're really similar.
The antennae are NOT going to be fatter. Look at the concept art. It's clear that they're thin poles. IMO, they look much better.
So anyway, I'm going to post an updated version later. Shafts will be removed, turrets will be changed a bit to look more like the ingame ones. Then i'm going to start on the bentusi tradeship.
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UPDATE: Look at the picture again!
Expect something tonight or tomorrow night as well.
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Oh man, Bentusi is comming. I get the feeling this one is bound to have over 10,000 polies...
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i really want to see some textures on these.
are you UVmapping them as you go?
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(http://hw.hiigara.net/shipinfo/kushan/destroyer_t.gif)
here is something to work with incase you lost some memory :).
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Such a small picture that doesn't seem to resize. My resolution is not the size of that puny picture.
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:wtf: I'm still not sure what the big hoot over the design is. If you REALLY want me to SHOW you, SIDE BY SIDE, the meshes, I will. I can prove that I kept the shape pretty much exactly. Yes, I got more reference pics from ingame and Homeworld Shipyards.
Yeah, I know I said I'd be able to post some new stuff, but I've been busier then I anticipated. Still, I think I'll have something to show this weekend, and on top of that, I bring good news: Flare is alive and well, but he's just really busy. He should have more time in a few weeks. He'll be doing the UVmapping, since he's the main modeler & texturer. I've got enough on my plate as it is.
So anyways, I'm going to get back to work.
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Such a small picture that doesn't seem to resize. My resolution is not the size of that puny picture.
well then, get off your ass and find that HW:C disc, shove it in play the first missions, you will see it there. i have just proved my point.
Meanwhile tempest i know you are putting your spare time into this thing, and i would like to see the finished product, but i have never been a fan anything looking different from its original. unfortunatly i found that out when i was 3 years old. But never the less, it would be cool to see this mod added to fs2 and finally playing a fighter in the Hiigaran/Kushan fleet.
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Okay, you made me do this.
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o116/Tempest_77/revproof.png)
Please tell me what's so different from the original. Unless you're complaining about the turrets, which I changed to look more like the concept art, or the antennas which are slightly shorter...
Centrixo, I respect your commitment to the origional designs, and I share the belief that increasing detail need not change the shape. I hope that now that you can compare the meshes side by side you can see how similar the ships really are, as the textures may have been throwing you off before.
And here's the newest batch of ships! Comments are very welcome!
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o116/Tempest_77/TaiidanFrigates.png)
And a cryotray
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o116/Tempest_77/Cryotray.png)
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its just the attenna, it looks like the orginal. i like, i like :). but to try do this proves that pressure envionments are not your thing. sorry for pressuring you tempest.
as for the taiidan, nice, they look like taiidan ships i grew up with. good work.
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I think perhaps the antennae could be made more like those on the front of the Sulaco.
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progress?
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hey, you think i could download the atack bomber for a freind?
oh btw love the work looks just like HW
keep it up :D
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Lots of work is being done behind the scenes.
That said, we're both very busy people, and probably we won't have something to present to you guys that's really playable for a while. Tables are going along smoothly, although the speed of the game may need some tweaking. I'm also hoping to start changing around the HUD to give the mod it's own identity.
Even with my knowledge as a modder, there's still some stuff that is giving me problems. First, I'm struggling with the armor.tbl. I can't seem to create multiple entries and make the game parse anything after the first one. I can make the first armor type, but then any subsequent entries are not recognised when the game reads them in the ships.tbl. It's irritating. I tried to remove the #end, but that just crashed the game altogether. I can't have syntax and functionality at the same time, unfortunatley. Anyone care to shed some light on this? (and help the mod get done sooner)
We also really, really need the power output field working. We simply can't give you a quality product without this working. I grabbed a build in which it worked, but I really need to know if it's going to be operational in the next big SCP release. I don't want to "feature creep" as I think it's called, but there's really no other way to do it. I've always struggled with swarm primaries, because I can't seem to get the fire wait field to work. I like the power output solution better because gun energy will make a difference. Since the player will only manage two energy types, I feel like it's critical to make it important.
So, we're making progress, it's just rather slow. Once flare has more time, we can increase the speed of progress exponentially. I'm thinking about releasing a dogfight pack, maybe ten odd ships, a couple missions, and we're not too far away from that, either. I can't give you any sort of reliable time estimate, so I won't give you one.
If there are any 2D artists who really knows photoshop, and is interested in working with us, shoot me a PM. Preferably you'd have some FS2 modding knowledge but if not I can fill you in. I just have no 2D artistic talent...at all.
Anyway, updates should come at a slower pace because a lot of stuff isn't really of a presentable fashion. I can't show screenies of tables and expect applause :)
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Does your armor.tbl look more like this, with each armor type having its own #Armor Type and #End...
#Armor Type
$Name: Armor1
$Damage Type: Weap1
+Calculation: Multiplicative
+Value: 0.75
$Damage Type: Weap2
+Calculation: Multiplicative
+Value: 0.001
#End
#Armor Type
$Name: Armor2
$Damage Type: Weap1
+Calculation: Multiplicative
+Value: 2
$Damage Type: Weap2
+Calculation: Multiplicative
+Value: 9001
#End
...or more like this?
#Armor Type
$Name: Armor1
$Damage Type: Weap1
+Calculation: Multiplicative
+Value: 0.75
$Damage Type: Weap2
+Calculation: Multiplicative
+Value: 0.001
$Name: Armor2
$Damage Type: Weap1
+Calculation: Multiplicative
+Value: 2
$Damage Type: Weap2
+Calculation: Multiplicative
+Value: 9001
#End
Oh and, 'Send in the TMF' really wants a bomber that I'm adding to my mod's tables to look like the Homeworld bomber. It seems that the 'Thanks to:' section of my readme isn't big enough yet.
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http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,47120.0.html
And - IMO - use 'additive' for simulating armor (== non penetrating hits wont cause any damage, to prevent the classic 'kill/cripple capships with rapid fire peashooter' tactic)...
Also.. What build are you using for testing?
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Like the first one.
Oh, and I'm using an armor system very much like that. Here's how it works.
I really only want armor to effect mass drivers and missiles, so they have the "kinetic" damage type.
Each class of ships has additive armor. Corvettes take 2 off the damage, Frigates take 3 off, Destroyers take 4 off, and anything larger takes 5 off. This makes smaller mass drivers useless against larger ships, exponentially favoring larger calibres. Frigate armor will make a huge difference against smaller peashooters, but almost no difference against the 42cm mass driver. So smaller mass drivers have a higher DPS when you don't factor in armor, but are usless against larger ships.
I decided against changing Ion Cannons and Plasma bombs right now...after all, any change in how they work will screw over fighters or capships, so I don't want to touch them.
In addition, I turned off auto subsystem repair for fighters, and enabled hull repair and subsystem repair for frigates and larger. It's better that way.
I can send the bomber, although I want to do a bit of work on the wings first but otherwise the geometry is done. It's not mapped yet, though.
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Just to prove that we're not dead.
Just comatose.
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o116/Tempest_77/Homeworld/Scaffold-1.png)
It's still a work in progress, so any comments? Other than the massive areas with no detail?
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WOW!!!!!!!!!!
Incredible work! :yes: :yes:
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any comments? Other than the massive areas with no detail?
On this kind of model it looks like you'd let the textures do most of the work.
Looks like it would be an awesome piece of scenery to fly around :D
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Looks like it would be an awesome piece of scenery to fly around :D
That's just the role it already took in HW 1 ;) - though with a lot less detail then here... :cool:
Damn - the more pics I see of this mod, the more I want to already be playing it... :cool: :yes: ( -> keep up the good work :) )
Too sad they took the cockpit-perspective out for Homeworld 2... :(
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Excelent work guys, i have been thinking on using 3D exploration and Truespace to convert ships directly from the PEO files of Homeworld to Freespace and working a bit with the weapon and ship tables, i think instead of focusing with the armors you would need to focus more in hitpoints since in the homeworld code there was no such thing as stronger armors, just more HP, and if you make Cap ships armors to strong against fighter weapons it would kill the feeling of using 24 Taidaan scouts to shred to pieces a heavy cruiser and it would keep also things like the fac that heavy cruiser single shot is supposed to take down a fighter instantly, trusth me, i have mooded homeworld for looooooonng time and i really think is better to deal with HP instead of armors.
anyway great work guys, keep it up, i hope to see this mod as a standalone soon, and if you need help with info about the homeworld code or help with the ship and weapon tables call mel.
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IDK, I guess it depends on what you wanna go for more, the homeworld feel or the semi-realistic feel. I mean, come on, machine guns don't do much damage to tanks at all, whereas RPGs do. I think it should be the same when thinking about a scout's railgun vs an AB's plasma bombs.
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We're going for the homeworld feel, but the armor exists so that fighters cannot hurt capital ships as much unless they have plasma bombs. We may adjust the damages on the frigate and cruiser mass drivers as well, to make them more powerful, since an interceptor has enough HP to survive a cruiser mass driver shot.
Anyone who can UVmap and texture, and wants to help out, shoot me a PM. We simply don't have much time on our own and we've got a lot of nice models sitting around waiting for mapping.
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Ah Homeworld. From the fustration of mobbing 6 cruisers with 35 strike craft to rolling over the Taiidan fleet with my 12 multibeam frigates (<3 those babies). This does bring back memories.
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Progress is resuming on the project. (Gotta stay ahead of TAP at any cost)
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o116/Tempest_77/Homeworld/Blade.png)
I'm going to make an effort to finish the core Kushan shipset, get it textured, and release a demo. This will obviously be much faster if there are any mappers or texturers around. If you have the skills, and this looks interesting, let me know.
As you can see, I've departed a bit from flarebaffled's curvy look. In all honsesty, the Kushan ships should be very hard-edged if at odd angles except with a select few of their vessels. The kind of mechanical hard feel I think better suits the universe. Yes, the missile corvettes fire missiles, too.
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lol @ staying ahead of TAP.
Good to have you back. I'd like to see this finished.
Now I just gotta dig around my messy room until I find my old package of useful skillsTM. I really wish I could be of some help.
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The original HW was one of my fav games a good time ago, and those models look sw33t! can't wait to try this mod out. :cool:
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A needle? Or baseball bat?
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o116/Tempest_77/Homeworld/Needleship.png)
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Sorry about the double post, but the Needleship is almost done.
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o116/Tempest_77/Needleship-1.png)
This sucker will use a lot of normal maps for the beehive style hull.
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I promised this a long time ago, and a promise is a promise.
Edit: More goodness
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o116/Tempest_77/Homeworld/screen5.png)
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ooo nice bentusii (spellings?) ship :D
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3...2...1....
YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYY YYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Hey, that screenshot is from the first mission in Homeworld! Does this mean you're close to a working demo? :D
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I have combat working, but I need a dedicated texturer. If I get one I can release something easily before summer. I've got a video on my photobucket about how the gameplay feels- just need a bit more in the texturing department. I've got the backgrounds, and scripts and missions. And sounds. And music (High-definition stuff, it's awesome). And interface art (some anyway).
Anyone who wants to sign up for texturing or voice acting, let me know. I'm also going to be putting up a website, and because of this and other interface requirements anyone with some photoshop experience would be appreciated. No offense to TAP, but they have nothing on what I've got right now. HW1 is better anyway.
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Lemme talk to a friend. I don't think he has much experience with any of these games, but he's a great photoshop artist.
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Kushan resource collector complete!
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o116/Tempest_77/Homeworld/providence.png)
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You weren't kidding, that did come out pretty sweet.
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Thanks.
Arrow WIP.
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o116/Tempest_77/Homeworld/arrow.png)
I've re-done the cockpit based on some concept art to look cooler, the same thing is in effect on the blade too.
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I realy like your models. Keep up the good work.
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Tempest, check your email/PMs when you get a chance.
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The arrow.
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o116/Tempest_77/Homeworld/arrow-1.png)
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...;7 Oh my godness...that is like magic! We seriously need to get Tempest into the TAP team... :D
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Are you taking into account cataclysm also? Or is it just homeworld 1?
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Cataclysm will be included in an expansion pack, albeit with significant tweakage to enhance it. But yes, you will eventually get phased plasma guns and acolytes.
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huh? I didn't want to post here?
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DEAD ? DORMANT ?
Or where is all the great stuff shown here gone ?
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you could have done a little more searching or even asked in the chat room before necroing a year and a half old thread...
Some needs a refresher methinks:
http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/posting
:lol:
ok seriously, I looked at the MAIN PAGE of the forum and low and behold TAP is still alive, HERE:
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/board,155.0.html
This is where you should be investigating... Your Welcome.
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STEAM R0x0rszzzzz!111
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Getter, this isn't a TAP thread. This project is totally and absolutely unrelated to TAP. As was explained in this thread, this was a separate project to port the original Homeworld models to FS2, whereas TAP is focusing on Homeworld 2. To my knowledge there was never a consolidation of efforts. Tempest and Flarebaffled are both gone to my knowledge though, for now. Aardwolf, wtf are you talking about?
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I could have sworn TAP was HW1. Now I'm less excited about it since HW2 simply wasn't as good.
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Oh look... A tap project member.. ^_^.
Clicky my badge.
plus
:bump:
FFS... :lol:
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Hmmn, another project bites the dust? Or goes on indefinate leave. I wonder how many that would be, if anyone were counting.
I know I've left at least one or two myself hahhaha
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We're still progressing via IM and E-mail. Just cos it's outside HLP doesn'y mean its not happening :p
Release date 2247.......
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We're still progressing via IM and E-mail. Just cos it's outside HLP doesn'y mean its not happening :p
Well I assume TAP is still progessing on some level since it still has a forum here. However the HW1 guys seem to have disappeared.
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As stated by chief : This is not TAP here.
Or did TAP inherited the stuff made by Tempest and Flarebaffled ?
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Misinterpretation Akalabeth :nod:
*hugs
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I was talking with Tempest before he sort of just disappeared, to my knowledge they never gave TAP their assets but the TAP guys would know better.
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I think the original mod was mainly cataclysm stuff. Our scene is set during the Vaygr incursion.
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We had a deal with FlareBaffled to use a couple of his fighters, his bubble cockpitted scout was going to be the training fighter at one point, and also the main fighter of one of the Hiigaran Kiith, I don't think we even have those models any more.