Hard Light Productions Forums
Community Projects => The FreeSpace Wiki Project => Topic started by: Flaser on February 10, 2007, 04:00:38 pm
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I browsed through the FS Wiki and was delighted to see the progress and knowledge that has accumulated there.
However what sets the FS_Open engine apart is the myriad of features that make the engine really powerful.
However newcomers are startled when they set about making mods, or using the engine for their conversion - and inevitably they see a wide range of difficulties (that are finally a lot easier to overcome thanks to the basic tutorials).
To promote the engine (and draw in fresh blood/interest <remember nothing feeds a programmer's demon so well as high acclaim>) we need high quality models/mods.
IMHO The Wing Commander Saga as well as BTRL and Shadows of Lyat total conversions are right now our stalwarts, as they both implement new features and do so in a very polished, professional manner; but they are produced by FS_Open veterans; and while their recognition finally seems to give the FS saga a good boost, amateurs still have a long way ahead of them work out the intricacies of FS modding.
What is needed (once again IMHO) is a nice jewel case of "cutting-edge", "shiny" features, that would act as the candy for new modders in getting over the 'mundane' points of modding.
A (somewhat comprehensive) list of such features:
Mapping
A detailed texturing tutorial - setting up glow, shine and environmental maps along with transparency.
Scooby Doo made an excelent tutorial that seems like a good starting point.
The shine/environment mapping is what gave FS_Open it's unique look, that is so far unmatched in the space-sim genre (Bobbau's shine maps seemed to have been way ahead of the time). This area also needs some attention as, when normal mapping (bumpmapping may be ommited altogether as normal maps offer a lot more) is finally implemented it will be on par with detail boxing when it comes to cutting edge high-poly rendering methods. Setting up/creating your maps in the right manner could really cut back on later development time when the new feature comes in.
Detail Boxing
I think we could rename the feature "Detail Modelling", that way it would be immediately self evident and more promising to newcomers.
If properly used, this feature could make all your über-detailed models come to life. It is probably among the most powerfull features introduced into the engine. (When detail mapping is finally added it will be even more powerfull, but even now it can solve a myriad problems with big models). Yet very few modelers actually use it, even though Shadows of Lyat has taken it upon themselves to promote the feature.
Destroyable Submodels
This is detail (modelling) boxing light, actually a good way to do some damage modelling to the model.
Animation
Unlike the earlier features this is a new one, so it's understandable that little was written on it, however it is on par with detail (modelling) boxing. Though somewhat limited, now our models can have almost Homeworldish life brought into them.
When you pack up those features, finally FS_Open is a no mere "contender" for the space-sim genre, but a really potent development environment that is way more cabale and open for developers than any other engine out there. (With all the new developments constantly going on in the engine, as well as the promise to port older content into the new versions makes it a very tempting choice for modders.)
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There has been for some talks about making 'features' page to FSwiki but no one seems to be willing or just hasnt got enough time/knowledge to do that.
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Aldo have no time.
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... Flaser said he volunteers!
:lol: j/k
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Well if he wants it done soon he ought to do it himself, I'm still working on the TBP shiplist. Then I have to do weapons too.
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/me has time to answer questions...
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A suggestion if I may...
You have the Wiki - but do you truly have a structured form
per say for the tutorials you propose?
Maybe you should start out by coming up with that (thinking and planning)
as it were and keeping that here so others with knowledge on said subject
can help fill in the missing blanks or simplify it. Then upload to the Wiki....
Perhaps start a dedicated tutorial section for 3DS, Lith, and Truespace?
After looking around out on the net trying to decipher what had been said,
I had to go out and get a $50 Max book to interpret the majority of it...
That's actually a good investment, but most folks/ trainee's are not going to be able to do
that to begin with, or it may well scare them off from becoming the modelers and
so on that are in short supply.
Detail boxing I've only seen once in the Borg cube example photos, yet
I have a application (need) for reduced polys and higher detail management.
A destroyable submodel sounds like something I could make sections of a ship
to be - and have whole quarters of the ship crumple, spark, and sizzle upon being
damaged. Sounds good to me... :yes: just the "how," "when's it apply" "with what"
is a bit foggy. :sigh:
Lastly, please assume the person reading has absolute 0 prior knowledge of what
you're talking about. It's always easier to write on concerning something you know... but the
newcomers are truly in the dark - if you mention a feature and don't want to make a lengthy
explanation, link to somewhere that does first - with a (read this first) attached. Step by step
or click by click pictures help greatly. Tell us that if we did the wrong thing... the resulting mess will probably
be...??? To go back to our last save, cause we have no hope of repairing what we destroyed... :wtf:
It'll just save everyone repetitive questions in the long run...
With respect,
~This local mod newb.
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Detail boxing I've only seen once in the Borg cube example photos, yet
I have a application (need) for reduced polys and higher detail management.
There is a better example for the use of detail boxes. The city in SoL:
http://i5.tinypic.com/2gsmw04.jpg
Big picture (http://www.game-warden.com/starfox//Non_SF_related_stuff/screen1522_HD.jpg)
It's really depending on them. Without detail boxes it doesn't run playbe on a high-end machine.
With detail boxes it performes fine even on older systems. It will still require more power than FSO though.
The Borg example is actually a tutorial. I wanted to write a wiki article for it... and forgot about it. ;)
Here is the link:
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,43649.msg894987.html
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I will check into it more. Evidently I need to download the video.
Honestly there are some sections that still sound "Greek" out of the
thread there concerning use.
Your example was 80k cubes, what I have is a 649,800+/- poly ship model.
Which I have as a hobby project sometime to work on cutting down.
I'll reply in that thread if I can gather some thoughts as to things I don't understand.
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The problem with such high poly counts is more, that you could have problems converting them.
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I could cook up a small tutorial covering in-game cutscenes, if you want :)
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That would be really useful. :yes:
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That would be really useful. :yes:
I've started playing with cutscenes 2 weeks ago. a few usefull sexps are missing atm(such as modifying object max speed, set-object-speed-x/y/z didn't work in my case [every-time / -true / -set-object-speed-z]), but a lot can be done with current assets. We'll be releasing a small package before the end of the week showcasting cutscene sexps :)
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Cool. I'll take a look at that very soon after it's out. I have used the SEXPs before but not for anything particularly flashy so I'd definitely appreciate a good tutorial on how to use it.
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Well, there (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,45750.0.html) you have it :)