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General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: Grizzly on February 11, 2007, 09:44:36 am

Title: How can I view the cockpits from the inside?
Post by: Grizzly on February 11, 2007, 09:44:36 am
for obvious reasons...
Title: Re: How can I view the cockpits from the inside?
Post by: Wanderer on February 11, 2007, 09:53:40 am
You have to add "show ship" flag to list on ships.tbl preferably by using modular tables.

showship-shp.tbm
Code: [Select]
#Ship Classes

$Name: <name of the shipclass, like GTF Hercules>
   +nocreate
$Flags: ( "show ship" )

<insert next shipclass>
<etc. etc.>

#End
Title: Re: How can I view the cockpits from the inside?
Post by: Grizzly on February 11, 2007, 12:49:45 pm
You have to add "show ship" flag to list on ships.tbl preferably by using modular tables.

showship-shp.tbm
Code: [Select]
#Ship Classes

$Name: <name of the shipclass, like GTF Hercules>
   +nocreate
$Flags: ( "show ship" )

<insert next shipclass>
<etc. etc.>

#End

Modulawhattes???

Yeah, I am a noob in FS2 Editing
Title: Re: How can I view the cockpits from the inside?
Post by: Dysko on February 11, 2007, 02:10:32 pm
Create a Notepad file called "<something>-shp" (it's important that there is "-shp", otherwise FS won't recognise that file), then paste in it what Wanderer posted. When you finished editing that file, change its extension to .tbm and put it in your "<your MediaVPs folder>\data\tables" folder.
Title: Re: How can I view the cockpits from the inside?
Post by: Darklord42 on February 11, 2007, 09:22:14 pm
what if you do that, and for ships like both hercs and the apollo the cockpit shown is compleetly off center or to far forward so you see the nose but not the instrument panel. or to far back so you have this mini cockpit screen blocking your targeget retical  but does not fill the screen? Has anyone figured out how to center these cockpits or what position the camera should be for ships like these?
Title: Re: How can I view the cockpits from the inside?
Post by: Polpolion on February 11, 2007, 10:36:59 pm
Has anyone figured out how to center these cockpits or what position the camera should be for ships like these?

I did that like twice. You gotta tinker around with model view and PCS.
Title: Re: How can I view the cockpits from the inside?
Post by: Darklord42 on February 12, 2007, 06:51:20 am
what commands did you use?
Title: Re: How can I view the cockpits from the inside?
Post by: Darklord42 on February 16, 2007, 08:59:20 am
sorry for the blatent bump but this topic realy interests me.  What commands did you use to center the cockpits for ships like the hercs where it is compleetly out of alignment?
Title: Re: How can I view the cockpits from the inside?
Post by: Snail on February 16, 2007, 09:19:16 am
eyepoints?
Title: Re: How can I view the cockpits from the inside?
Post by: Darklord42 on February 16, 2007, 10:04:28 am
if thats what they are called :)
Title: Re: How can I view the cockpits from the inside?
Post by: aldo_14 on February 16, 2007, 10:11:34 am
The pof (actual model used by the game) has a setting called 'eyepoint' which defines where the camera is placed when looking forward, back, etc.  you can edit that to change the position of the camera in the cockpit; albeit I'd also suggest checking your fov (set in the command line - if it isn't there, don't worry) as well, just to be sure.
Title: Re: How can I view the cockpits from the inside?
Post by: Darklord42 on February 16, 2007, 10:31:29 am
how does one go about doing that? is there  a tbm file that i can create that overides the vp? or do i have to find a way to edit the whole vp itself?  Also I didn't set -fov in the command line so that is default i guess
Title: Re: How can I view the cockpits from the inside?
Post by: aldo_14 on February 16, 2007, 10:54:04 am
to edit the eyepoint, you need to extract the pof from the VP file and use a pof editor.  It's scarcely ideal, natch; I'm guessing that no-one thought of setting up the Herc properly for in-cockpit view or something.
Title: Re: How can I view the cockpits from the inside?
Post by: Darklord42 on February 16, 2007, 11:19:23 am
Ither hercs actualy. I lack that kind of program, and programing skill. Though i guess i could find one and play with it a little.
Title: Re: How can I view the cockpits from the inside?
Post by: Herra Tohtori on February 16, 2007, 11:29:27 am
By the way, the cockipt models need to be fixed in almost all ships that have them. The HUD plate should be either fixed or removed from the cockpits entirely, because in many cases it's in the way and you can't even use a transparent texture for it, since it causes very strange things to happen (like making the nose of the ship transparent instead of only the HUD plate...)

In any case the HUD screen is un-necessary at the best, since the HUD is obviously situated into the pilot's helmet...
Title: Re: How can I view the cockpits from the inside?
Post by: CaptJosh on February 16, 2007, 11:32:35 am
Why do people assume that editing a 3D model takes knowledge of computer programming? They're not talking a hex editor, Darklord42.
Title: Re: How can I view the cockpits from the inside?
Post by: Darklord42 on February 16, 2007, 11:42:40 am
well i made a post in the media vps zeta thread asking if such things will be changed in a future release, but until then ill try playing with it if i get a chance.
Title: Re: How can I view the cockpits from the inside?
Post by: Polpolion on February 16, 2007, 04:59:14 pm
what commands did you use?

In Modelveiw, you open the model you want to move the eye points in. Go into editing mode. I forget what you have to move around, but it looks like a red cross, and thats the eye point. Move it around in the box in the top-right. Once you have the coordinates, go into PCS, and I think there is a eye point tab. Put your coordinates there.

Why don't I just use one program? For me, Model view doesn't like saving POFs, and PCS doesn't like displaying them as 3D textured models, just as splotches of white.
Title: Re: How can I view the cockpits from the inside?
Post by: Darklord42 on February 16, 2007, 05:24:40 pm
did you already do it? in that case you should submit that to whomever does the media vps
Title: Re: How can I view the cockpits from the inside?
Post by: Polpolion on February 16, 2007, 05:33:25 pm
did you already do it? in that case you should submit that to whomever does the media vps

I lost them a while ago. I never used them, anyway.

Never managed to get that black thing fixed. Everyones all like "Don't use alpha channel for env mapping!!" And I'm all like " I'm not using alpha channel for env mapping!". And then the thread dies.
Title: Re: How can I view the cockpits from the inside?
Post by: Darklord42 on February 16, 2007, 10:05:12 pm
Ah what a shame, :sigh:
 well, here is a new thread ;)
Title: Re: How can I view the cockpits from the inside?
Post by: Herra Tohtori on February 16, 2007, 10:29:14 pm
HTL Zeus has a cockpit texture with transparent HUD screen, if that's what you mean by "black thing".

In theory, it should be compatible with all previous cockpits... And it kinda is, too. The problem is that none of the pre-Zeus cockpits have HUD screens that are designed to be transparent, so the transparency causes very annoying effects on any of the old fighters. Mainly so that when you look through the HUD, it is transparent all right - but so is your ship behind it. In the bottom of the screen you actually see through your ship's nose, and it's kinda annoying. I suspect that it's because some vertices/polys in the HUD screen criss-cross each other or are too close or have inverted normals or something like that, I dunno.

All the HUD screens should be either fixed to be similar with the ones in HTL Zeus or alternatively be moved away altogether, if the cockpit view is wanted to be widely usable/used.

The problem wouldn't be too bad if it considered only cockpit view, but if any ship with cockpit uses the same texture with HTL Zeus cockpit, the HUD and the ship behind it becomes transparent also from the outside... Which is kinda wrong and evil, you're not supposed to have holes in your spaceship (and much less your body...)
Title: Re: How can I view the cockpits from the inside?
Post by: Grizzly on February 17, 2007, 12:41:47 pm
Can someone move this to the Freespace upgrade project? Since this is a nice upgrade project to do.
Title: Re: How can I view the cockpits from the inside?
Post by: Darklord42 on February 17, 2007, 01:33:22 pm
I posted relevent info on the Zeta thread but it would probably be best if this thread were to be moved too
Title: Re: How can I view the cockpits from the inside?
Post by: Objekt on February 17, 2007, 05:02:45 pm
Pardon my ignorance, but what do you mean by "viewing cockpits from the inside?"  Some other games (X-Wing, TIE Fighter, X-Wing Alliance, lots of recent flight sims) have a "virtual cockpit" where you can freely move your viewpoint around a realistic 3-D representation of a cockpit, but I don't know that FS has this kind of capability.

Sure would be a neat mod, though.
Title: Re: How can I view the cockpits from the inside?
Post by: Darklord42 on February 17, 2007, 08:58:42 pm
you know how many of the media vp terren ships has clear cockpits that you can see into.  with the proper command the ship will render in firstperson mode alowing you to see the ship around you. and if the eyepoint is set right. you can see the surrounding ship/cockpit from the first person perspective.
Title: Re: How can I view the cockpits from the inside?
Post by: Mongoose on February 18, 2007, 04:02:31 am
In any case the HUD screen is un-necessary at the best, since the HUD is obviously situated into the pilot's helmet...
Regarding this, surprisingly enough, the FS1 intro shows the HUD as being displayed on a pop-up translucent screen in the pilot's line of sight, just as it is in modern jetfighters.  I agree that displaying it on the pilot's helmet visor makes far more sense, but that's actually not the case if you go by what we see in the games.
Title: Re: How can I view the cockpits from the inside?
Post by: Darklord42 on February 18, 2007, 12:02:45 pm
Actualy in more modern jet fighters like the Joint Strike Fighter are begining to  put hud information in pilot helmets.  And for playability issues we cant have have the tranlucent  screen if we are to have visable cockpits as they get in the way as they have a nasty tendancy to be opaque black.  I guess you must consider that when fs1 orrigionaly came out no one dreamed of cockpit hud data being input into a pilots visor.

On the other hand If people could redesign the cockpits to have a translucent screen  and pretend the hud data you are seeing is comming from that screen rather than pasting a fake hud, that gets in the way, on that screen then that would be something else.  However it hasnt been writen in the code to move hud data around so that it could fit on such a screen.  I know the WC Saga project would definatly like to have that ability for there 3d cockpits but that appears to be a long way off. http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,45016.0.html (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,45016.0.html)
Title: Re: How can I view the cockpits from the inside?
Post by: Polpolion on February 18, 2007, 01:39:11 pm
In any case the HUD screen is un-necessary at the best, since the HUD is obviously situated into the pilot's helmet...
Regarding this, surprisingly enough, the FS1 intro shows the HUD as being displayed on a pop-up translucent screen in the pilot's line of sight, just as it is in modern jetfighters.  I agree that displaying it on the pilot's helmet visor makes far more sense, but that's actually not the case if you go by what we see in the games.


If it was displayed in the pilots helmet, then the aiming reticle would be rather useless.
Title: Re: How can I view the cockpits from the inside?
Post by: Darklord42 on February 18, 2007, 02:06:00 pm
not necessarily. just because the pilots head moves doesn't mean the info displayed has to move with his head.  Were talking advanced technology here :D
Title: Re: How can I view the cockpits from the inside?
Post by: Dysko on February 18, 2007, 02:23:30 pm
<Darth, please, don't talk about airplanes. Try to resist, and move to another thread. No... don't do that... NOOOO!!!!!>[/Darth DySkO's brain]
Sorry, but my brain has little influence on me. So:

Israeli Aircraft Industries made a fighter pilot helmet which allowed targeting of enemy fighters even if they aren't directly in front of the fighter, due to the helmet linked to the onboard radar. I know, this doesn't resolve the cannon/laser aiming reticle problem, but at least you could lock a target to fire the missiles.

And AFAIK, the F-35 helmet seems to be having a link to outer cameras, so that when you look at the fuselage you see what lies below the fuselage. This could explain why originally we couldn't see any part of the fighter from the cockpit.

Ok, offtopic finished, sorry for that :nervous:
Title: Re: How can I view the cockpits from the inside?
Post by: aldo_14 on February 19, 2007, 04:24:20 am
Pardon my ignorance, but what do you mean by "viewing cockpits from the inside?"  Some other games (X-Wing, TIE Fighter, X-Wing Alliance, lots of recent flight sims) have a "virtual cockpit" where you can freely move your viewpoint around a realistic 3-D representation of a cockpit, but I don't know that FS has this kind of capability.

Sure would be a neat mod, though.

(http://sectorgame.com/aldo/twentyk/art/wip3.jpg)

(press the '.' and you get...)
(http://sectorgame.com/aldo/twentyk/art/wip0.jpg)
Title: Re: How can I view the cockpits from the inside?
Post by: Darklord42 on February 19, 2007, 07:19:59 am
now all we need is that for all fighters with transparent cockpits not just the madusa:)
Title: Re: How can I view the cockpits from the inside?
Post by: Snail on February 19, 2007, 03:31:24 pm
Hey... isn't [.] change primary weapon?
Title: Re: How can I view the cockpits from the inside?
Post by: Herra Tohtori on February 19, 2007, 03:55:07 pm
Numpad 0/Insert will make it possible to pan the view with mouse - within certain limits, though.

Numpad ,/Del will throw you to external view where the flight controls move camera instead of the ship.