Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: Nuke on February 14, 2007, 03:34:12 pm
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i dont know bout most of you but ive had my x52 for at least a couple years now, and frankly im starting to get sick of it. considering how long its lasted, id say its a good stick, but i want better. some of the lights are starting to go out and im not getting full range on the throttle anymore. also the range of motion on the x and y axes is starting to fade. its getting where i have to turn it more than 5 degrees to get any motion out of it. everything else still works though. but its getting old and im not sure if it will last another year.
now saitek has put out the pro version of this stick. supposidly its got an mfd which can be programmed for various games, supposidly you can use it to display gauges from fsx. comes with an sdk to integrate it into other games (im thinking scripting a communication layer between fs and the stick if i get it) other than that it has about the same functionality. however, i never did much like the non-linear motion on my current x52, i dont like any ramping.
now the x52 pro is about $180 usd off newegg. but i dont want it if its just a cheap upgrade to the regular x-52. if its pro it should have pro features, like configurable axis ramping, the ability to change the axis order, adjustable spring tension and so on.
now ch sells its controlls as components all of which are around $110 usd each, with ch id get stick throttle and pedals. roughly about $350 (about the same if i got the saitek pedals and x52 pro) for all 3 components. now ch also speciallizes in alot of industrial grade joysticks, so i suspect they have the knowhow to make a descent game controller. the controllers dont have alot of ghimmic features either. just buttons hats and axes.
now id like to hear opinions from people whove owned any of the controls ive mentioned here. especially those whove owned both a ch setup and an x52, or an x52 and the pro version. i dont want to blow 300+ bucks unless i know for sure im getting what i want. keep in mind i play alot of flight sims and old games as well.
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From my experience and observation, CH might not be as flashy, but they are definitely efficient and very sturdily built. My CH Flightstick Pro from like a decade ago is still going strong, although my Saitek Cyborg 3D Gold from only a few years ago has buttons that are starting to respond less and less, albeit there are more of them.
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yeah but if you get the x52 pro, with your knowhow, you might be able to figure out some integration between fs2_open and it's mfd.
And personally, CH sticks are ugly and hell and expensive.
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well im on my second saitek hotas stick. last one i owned was a an x45 i think. and it died after about a year and a half. anyway i dont know enough about the x52 pro. i should probibly google some reviews.
*edit* read some
i found one that tells me that the ch, dispite being uglyer and lacking trim wheels, actually has smoother linear performance. another one gives me an idea that the x52 pro's only real advantage is its mfd, unfortunately the feature remains bloat. another said the pro has better sensors that the x52 and has gotten rid of the dead zone issue. i need to find confirmation on that.
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The only real drawback to CH sticks are their price. The quality can't be argued with - They can and will last you forever as long as you don't go dropping them off tall buildings (and I have a suspicion that some of them might even survive that). That price, though, can be a bit extreme for just a joystick.
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I can't understand why someone would want a joystick other than a Logitech Wingman Extreme, it's lasted me... for 7 years. Never had a problem with it, ever, though I'm getting another on eBay just to have another, best part is that they're rather cheap.
But onto the topic, I'd just get the ch, I'd pay the price if I knew what I was getting would last me forever and on, and with good quality.
Look into a Wingman though :P
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I'm looking at a complete CH setup... only thing is you need at least the control stick and throttle... it won't work so well without the throttle.
The big thing with CH is they're big, mean, and quite a bit ugly... but you can rely on them to make sure you can use that same stick for years on end. They sell the important replacement parts as a just-in-case type of store; usually its specific spring sets for the products or little extra parts.
I recommend you stop into your local CompUSA or Bestbuy and check out the sticks they have on display; CH sticks are generally large and heavy; they are modeled directly after the control stick on an F-16 (iirc). They have two types of throttles; the normal single-throttle or the flight-sim multi-throttle. You might want the pedals; I hear they make for very excellent control of the system.
The joysticks from CH don't have the Z axis (rotation); they expect that you buy a complete set or rig a button to do the rotation with... the CH products, alone, aren't perfect; they're designed to look alike, be solid, and work pretty much forever. If you just pick a joystick up, there are many features "missing" that you see on even cheaper joysticks.
I'd say if you have $320 to spend and want to put money into a game-control system, go for a complete setup from CH (joystick, single throttle, pedals). You can find their stuff from about $90-$110 on NewEgg (www.newegg.com) and, of course, it's all going to be the highest quality. NewEgg is a good e-tailer with great customer support and CH Products have top-notch tech support.
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I love Saitek, they make the best sticks, IMO - although I've never tried CH, mostly because of the insane price.
However, whatever you do, do not buy a Logitech. Their sticks, while good, have horrific service records. I just bought a brand new Saitek stick, didn't use it for two weeks (was on vacation), came back to find out the trigger isn't working.
And it wasn't the first time Logitech screwed me over - there sticks last, on average, about four months. I just thought they changed so I tried them again. Looks like I was wrong.
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im seriously thinking about getting an industrial grade hall effect stick, not the most realistick stick, but the control you get far outweighs that.
anyway im curious if anyone had one of them ch flight yokes, i can imagine that with a set of rudder pedals would make for some nice, and brutally precise flying.
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I would think the yoke would be hard to use for more violent games (Freespace 2, any combat game, basically).
The CH Products sticks are industrial-grade. If you have the money and complete control, get the set of the stick, pedals, and throttle; i highly doubt you'll regret it. I haven't heard of any CH products that break; the most that happens is the springs get a bit loose (and you can easily replace those)... then again I don't look hard.
I've had the same Logitech stick for several years now... it's a bit finicky but it's cool. I guess it's hit-and-miss, or I just got really lucky.
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i might just get a ch setup. my x52 was nice when i got it but now its becoming cumbersome and unstable. ive been *****ing for years about how innaccurate sticks are theese days. im tired of spending 100+ bucks on sticks that only last me a year or two. now i gotta figure out how to pay for it. :D
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I love Saitek, they make the best sticks, IMO - although I've never tried CH, mostly because of the insane price.
However, whatever you do, do not buy a Logitech. Their sticks, while good, have horrific service records. I just bought a brand new Saitek stick, didn't use it for two weeks (was on vacation), came back to find out the trigger isn't working.
And it wasn't the first time Logitech screwed me over - there sticks last, on average, about four months. I just thought they changed so I tried them again. Looks like I was wrong.
Saitek definately have the coolest sticks. But CH have the best "made" sticks.
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CH sticks don't look great, but they preform great. There are many people with sticks about 10 years old who are still using them; they're only now switching because there is no MIDI port...
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i think all ch sticks have been upgraded to usb, but do the usb versions still perform as well.
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Yeah thats the point... they had the old MIDI port setups and now most people are buying the new USB port setups... can't say you blame em; the sticks are said to hold up for over 10 years before you need to replace them to update the interface!
Anyways... I think we can all agree that USB 2.0 is the current standard and will likely stay the standard for at least the next 10 years? After all, we hate giving up legacy ports when there's a much better replacement!
Serial ports
PS/2 ports for keyboard & mouse
MIDI ports on sound cards
Analog audio (why not use S/PDIF Optical?)
PCI slots (we got PCI-e now)
CD-ROM drives (DVD is much more efficient for storage)
Floppy drives
Parallel ports (who uses printers from the '90s anymore?)
Modems
True, not all are true "legacy", but many of them have good replacements now.
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i dont see usb going away any time soon. though im starting to think usb 2.0 is a myth. been buying usb 2.0 devices and mobos which are supposed to have usb 2.0 but it never seems i can get actual usb 2.0 performance. maybe its just a driver thing or something but its enough to make me question the existance of 2.0.
i think i can do without serial and paralell ports, i disable em in the bios anyway. cd, floppy and modem will not be found in my computer. i dispise ps2 ports, if not for the fact that they work 100% of the time (cant say the same for usb, but im sure hardware standards need to mature in the same way drivers need to).
stuff like pci, midi/game ports, and analog audio dont bug me if it stays in computers another 5 years. theese days everything pretty much comes on the mobo, and if you got a good mobo you really dont need to buy any other goodies other than a video card. onboard soud is just as good as a sound card theese days, but i still like to have a sound card. i like midi/game ports cause theyre easy to wire. stripping out legacy interfaces for newer ones just makes stuff more expensive. things like serial ports, which are at least 30 years old, can go. they have some use for do-it-yourself tinkerers, but for the average joe blow, get that ancient sucker outa there.
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USB 2.0 is real... you don't really notice it unless you try using USB 1.1 to transfer a large file (say, 200mb?) and it takes 10 minutes, then transfer it by USB 2.0 in about 1 minute.
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stuff like pci, midi/game ports, and analog audio dont bug me if it stays in computers another 5 years.
Game Ports don't work in Windows Vista anymore, so you can strike those off the list.
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I'd change that when the vast majority of people use Vista... I included them because they still work in WinXP. Most Windoze users use XP right now (though that's bound to change in about a year)
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i myself will give vista a go only after its had several months to a year for it and drivers for it to mature. the gameport thing annoys the crap outa me though. that port is very easy to wire for if you wanted to design your own controller. im sure you can get kit for usb interfaces but thats nowhere near as fun as building stuff out of left over components from many sources.
as for my problems with usb 2.0, which has supposidly been in every mobo ive owned sence 2002, has never delivered the advertised 400mb? performance. its most noticable with ipod transfers. i know ipods are 50 different kinds of suck, but come on 3 days to transfer 30 gigs? my math says that 30 gigs, without accountinf for overhead should only take 10 minutes. supposidly both my mobo and the ipod could do 2.0. i just aint seeing it.
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that has nothing to do with USB2.0 and more to do with the fact the Hard Drive on the IPOD can only sustain very mediocre write/read rates. 480 Mbps is around 60 MB/sec, most portable hard drives won't get to that.
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im well aware of bits-bytes conversions. 30 gigs in 3 days? my math says its doing less than 1 mbit.
thats:
30000000000 bytes
* 8 =
240000000000 bits
/ 72 hours
3333333333.3333 bits/hr
/ 60 minutes
55555555.5556 bits/min
/60 seconds
925925.92594 bits/sec
= 925.9 kbps, with overhead, 1.1 performance
thats some ****ty drive performance. and this (http://sdd.toshiba.com/main.aspx?Path=818200000007000000010000659800001516/81820000010d000000010000659c000003b7/8182000000e6000000010000659c000003be/8182000000e9000000010000659c00000370/8182000007f8000000010000659c00001aaa) is the drive used in 4g ipods, i use a 5gen but it should be a similar drive. as you can see, the drive performance excedes the throughput im getting. this is going through a 2.0 port and the ipod supports 2.0. unless theres some driver glitch or some magical thing im not doing. usb 2.0 simply does not exist!
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yeah that does suck. But consider my "usb 2.0" creative muvo v100 transfers at around 700 kbps max and you'll feel better. That's a flash player as well. However, my sandisk cruzer micro transfers around 2.5 to 3 MB/sec, so I know my USB 2.0 works. Just some devices suck I guess.
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thats what it looks like, but i have this feeling that my usb just isnt configured properly. i remember when installing my mobo drivers, the disc said usb 2.0 requires sp2, which i then installed. but with all the usb 2.0 devices i own, at least one would work to specs. i think the problem may just be that the ipod cable they give us isnt 2.0 rated. wouldnt be the first time a company tried to pull that stunt.