Hard Light Productions Forums

Community Projects => The FreeSpace Upgrade Project => Topic started by: Bobboau on February 24, 2007, 08:46:50 am

Title: vasudan turret weapons?
Post by: Bobboau on February 24, 2007, 08:46:50 am
I had a thought, why don't we make some new turret weapons for the vasudans, they would be balanced to be exactly like the terran ones, but would have different graphics and, sounds.
I'm prety sure in most V missions they don't modify the loadout, so I think all we'd have to do is make the new effects add them to the table and make the ships table reference them. there would be no balance issues cause from a a gameplay perspective they would be the same.
Title: Re: vasudan turret weapons?
Post by: TrashMan on February 24, 2007, 08:50:52 am
Allready did that ages ago.

There's a nifty little weaponsPack on Hades-Combine. (and is used in Flames of War)

All vasudan capships have yellow blob turrets (heavy, medium and light ones) while all terran ones are green.
Terran ones do more damage, vasudan ones fire faster.
Title: Re: vasudan turret weapons?
Post by: Mars on February 24, 2007, 11:23:49 am
That modifies the original balance
Title: Re: vasudan turret weapons?
Post by: TrashMan on February 24, 2007, 04:06:48 pm
That modifies the original balance

Weapon packs have a tendency to do that..yeah.

But not by much. Terran Huge Turret does 1000 damage (compared to 300 from before), can target only capships and has a longer range. The vasudan one does 940 damage or so.

There's also a Terran/Vasudan Medium Turret (anti-cap, but for smaller ships, with half damage), a Terran/Vasudan anti-bomber turret (slow, but big damage) and the terran/vasudan laser turret (fires faster than stock one).

Title: Re: vasudan turret weapons?
Post by: Bobboau on February 24, 2007, 04:17:51 pm
well the idea haere is expressly not to do that, but to make just a cosmetic change.
Title: Re: vasudan turret weapons?
Post by: Mars on February 24, 2007, 05:15:03 pm
There seem to be Zod turret effects in the media vps... they just aren't used.

I can be more specific one I get my Freespace 2 up and running again
Title: Re: vasudan turret weapons?
Post by: TrashMan on February 24, 2007, 05:43:39 pm
well the idea haere is expressly not to do that, but to make just a cosmetic change.

So? The effects are there, just change a few numbers...
Title: Re: vasudan turret weapons?
Post by: Trivial Psychic on February 24, 2007, 11:41:52 pm
There are some in the Port tables... though they're not the same balance-wise as the Terran ones.
Title: Re: vasudan turret weapons?
Post by: Wanderer on February 25, 2007, 01:58:23 am
Faster firing rate will increase their effectiveness against bombs
Title: Re: vasudan turret weapons?
Post by: Bobboau on February 25, 2007, 08:04:36 am
well if they are in the table why don't we set them on the vasudan ships?
Title: Re: vasudan turret weapons?
Post by: TrashMan on February 25, 2007, 10:24:55 am
While Huge turrets targeting only capships and doing more damage is not "canon" it does make perfect sense.

Isn't it strange that a 2km long warship doesn't have any anti-capital weapons worthy of note?
Hell, the Leviathans Fusion Mortar is a better weapon than the THT!

But any changes made won't be canon anyway (green is the "canon" color of vasudan capital laser weapons)
There are times when you simply have to say - s*** canon!
Title: Re: vasudan turret weapons?
Post by: Bobboau on February 26, 2007, 12:24:31 am
and this is not one of those times, if we do that, we'd potentially need to rebalance every mission. all I'm suggesting is a cosmetic change.
Title: Re: vasudan turret weapons?
Post by: TrashMan on February 26, 2007, 05:21:46 am
I was making an appeal to campaigns in-progress or those to be made.

They don't have to use stock tables or worry about balance.

Just FYI, I played the original FS2 campaign with my weapons and the balance was not noticably affected...only ONE mission was affected (Kotlh and Collie mission), and that was due to the (vastly, more than beams) increased range of the weapons - the Repulse fraged the cruiser.

Anyway, using new weapon tables/effects is optional..

Title: Re: vasudan turret weapons?
Post by: Bobboau on February 26, 2007, 05:47:21 am
well this is specifically from FSU and the original campaign. that is off of this toppic.

so does this mean that vasudan weapons would have no objection from the populous? if I get objections AFTER I make them I'm going to be a lot more pissy about it then if we talk it out now.
Title: Re: vasudan turret weapons?
Post by: Vasudan Admiral on February 26, 2007, 06:00:38 am
I say go for it - I've never before noticed that there are no Vasudan capship turrets, but now I reckon that makes a great oppertunity for more eye-candy. :)

And just in case anyone else is still wondering/worried about balance, what he intends to do is basically create a set of vasudan turret weapons that will effectively be the terran turret weapons that all vasudan ships currently use with new graphics and sounds.

Bottom line: Balance will not be affected in the slightest, unless you count players who get mesmerised by the new effects and forget what they are for too long. Just thought I'd clear that up once and for all. ;)
Title: Re: vasudan turret weapons?
Post by: S-99 on February 26, 2007, 07:56:04 am
Someone should re-cosmeticise the shivan flaks too. They're just like like tv ones, but it would really help out if they just had different looking projectiles and explosions. The shivans could have a plasma flak turret or something.
Title: Re: vasudan turret weapons?
Post by: Raven2001 on February 26, 2007, 01:39:01 pm
Someone should re-cosmeticise the shivan flaks too. They're just like like tv ones, but it would really help out if they just had different looking projectiles and explosions. The shivans could have a plasma flak turret or something.

Good point :nod:
Title: Re: vasudan turret weapons?
Post by: redsniper on February 26, 2007, 04:15:20 pm
so does this mean that vasudan weapons would have no objection from the populous? if I get objections AFTER I make them I'm going to be a lot more pissy about it then if we talk it out now.

I fully support this endeavor as well as different flak for shivans. (As long as the new effects are good :p)
Title: Re: vasudan turret weapons?
Post by: Janos on February 26, 2007, 04:46:42 pm
well this is specifically from FSU and the original campaign. that is off of this toppic.

so does this mean that vasudan weapons would have no objection from the populous? if I get objections AFTER I make them I'm going to be a lot more pissy about it then if we talk it out now.

Of course not. Purely cosmetic changes are good and I trust the plebeians here to ***** and moan if you come up with something horrendous.
Title: Re: vasudan turret weapons?
Post by: Mars on February 26, 2007, 06:56:06 pm
I think it's weird that the Zods and Terrans have anti-capital turrets that look exactly the same... but beams that look totally different... I'm all for it
Title: Re: vasudan turret weapons?
Post by: m2258734a on February 27, 2007, 01:13:13 am
By all means, use your artistic license as you please. I'm sure that we're all looking forward to seeing some upgrades to Freespace weaponry.
Title: Re: vasudan turret weapons?
Post by: Black Wolf on February 27, 2007, 10:28:08 am
Bloody hell Trashman - what is it with you and not understanding the significance of canon, or, for that matter the basics of reading other people's posts? Seriously, you do it all the time - as bad as lightspeed was.
Title: Re: vasudan turret weapons?
Post by: Darklord42 on February 27, 2007, 01:23:58 pm
well you must remember that cannon was limited by the technology of the age plus time and money they wanted to devote to the game. They probably couldn't do half of what you guys can do.  I personaly agree with Trashman aslong as it is mearly cosmetic and doesn't throw off ballence of the game.
Title: Re: vasudan turret weapons?
Post by: starbug on February 27, 2007, 04:05:07 pm
I am all in favor of this, i all was thought it odd vasudan using terran turrets even in FS1, but if someone where to do Shivan flak even better!
Title: Re: vasudan turret weapons?
Post by: Bobboau on February 27, 2007, 08:03:06 pm
I'll be able to get to work on this wends day night, don't expect anything before then.
Title: Re: vasudan turret weapons?
Post by: Goober5000 on February 27, 2007, 08:05:31 pm
There are Vasudan Turrets in the Port.  They're identical to Terran Turrets except for the effects.
Title: Re: vasudan turret weapons?
Post by: Einstine909 on February 27, 2007, 11:00:12 pm
some one mentioned that the shivan flack needs to be redone... well here it is
the plasma flack that was asked for
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o93/Einstine909/Hardlight/shivflac.jpg)
i made a tbm but someone will have to edit every mission for it to show up...

so should it be like this or diferant?
Title: Re: vasudan turret weapons?
Post by: Mars on February 27, 2007, 11:28:56 pm
I like... it's all Shivany and red.
Title: Re: vasudan turret weapons?
Post by: S-99 on February 28, 2007, 01:38:13 am
Wow, hey that looks really nice, yeah i was the person who asked. Now you just need a cool plasma flak explosion. And yeah there's also the muzzle blasts from shivan flak turrets that may need to be redone too, you know given the fact that plasma doesn't have muzzle blasts like that of tv flak...it'd probably have a different muzzle blast of course.
Title: Re: vasudan turret weapons?
Post by: CP5670 on February 28, 2007, 01:19:00 pm
This would be fine with me. I am also using yellow Vasudan turrets in my campaign, that are no different from the Terran ones apart from the color.
Title: Re: vasudan turret weapons?
Post by: TrashMan on February 28, 2007, 02:52:52 pm
Bloody hell Trashman - what is it with you and not understanding the significance of canon, or, for that matter the basics of reading other people's posts? Seriously, you do it all the time - as bad as lightspeed was.

Eh?
Me not understanding significance of canon? Play my campaing and you'll see that every little detial is canon - right down to the system backgrounds and sun colours!
The only thing is I know the difference between sensible canon (somethnig you should strive to protects, like historical events, places, feel, etc..) and unssensible canon (like weapon color, or if it does 500 or 501 dmg)..
Title: Re: vasudan turret weapons?
Post by: aldo_14 on February 28, 2007, 03:52:59 pm
well you must remember that cannon was limited by the technology of the age plus time and money they wanted to devote to the game. They probably couldn't do half of what you guys can do.  I personaly agree with Trashman aslong as it is mearly cosmetic and doesn't throw off ballence of the game.

That doesn't mean we have free licence to assume, guess or otherwise invent what Volition 'wanted'; at least not if we want to say we're sticking to the game as it was designed.
Title: Re: vasudan turret weapons?
Post by: Raven2001 on February 28, 2007, 04:10:14 pm
Now theres a point: people will never know what Volition originally intended for FS2 on this matter, so tbh these pointless debates about not doing simple things (that make the game look better), if they could be cannon or not...

If their cool and make sense, and hey dont break balance, slap them in... dont use cannon on these matters
Title: Re: vasudan turret weapons?
Post by: TrashMan on February 28, 2007, 04:40:08 pm
I was just saying that having capships weapons with a bit more punch before beams makes sense (and I'm not massive damage here, just something noticable).

Balance? As long as it's not drasticly affected (I played both FS1 and FS2 with VASTLY altered weapons and all mission ran smooth, so I fail to see how altering stats slightly could alter balance significantly)
Title: Re: vasudan turret weapons?
Post by: Raven2001 on February 28, 2007, 04:46:20 pm
Balance is just that... balance.

I never said you need to keep the stats exactly the same to not break balance now did I? :P
Title: Re: vasudan turret weapons?
Post by: Mehrpack on February 28, 2007, 06:35:59 pm
hi,
i think maybe its good idea, if you take the orginal campaines and make a overwork without replaceing the orignal campaines.
so you can improve some thinks, removing some logical missionsbugs and chance other thing, without splitting up the community.

to the topic: i think a own weaponseffect will be cool and maybe for the anti-fighter beam, too.

my 5 cents.

Mehrpack
Title: Re: vasudan turret weapons?
Post by: Darklord42 on February 28, 2007, 06:37:29 pm
well you must remember that cannon was limited by the technology of the age plus time and money they wanted to devote to the game. They probably couldn't do half of what you guys can do.  I personaly agree with Trashman aslong as it is mearly cosmetic and doesn't throw off ballence of the game.

That doesn't mean we have free licence to assume, guess or otherwise invent what Volition 'wanted'; at least not if we want to say we're sticking to the game as it was designed.

Just by highpolifiying the models,  creating new highres textures, changing starfieds, exploding effects/3-d shockwaves, is going way beyond volition had ever intended. Why not do the same with flack and other wepon effects?  Artist take "liberties" with the 3-d models all the time with the nit and grit details, because they are impossiable to tell in the origionals if they were there or not.  The whole point of media vp's is to take evreything to the next level. And quite frankly this isn't much of a stretch by anymeans.  It is pretty clear that weapons technologies would be diffrent amongst sepretly evolving species, even IF the perpouses were similar.  Volition, for one reason or another, did not make it part of their game wheather to save money, time, whatever.  As the true focus of a game is gameplay anyway, and all this otherstuff to make it real is just a bonus, and since we don't have such restrictions they did, why not?  Cannon is important to keep it "freespace," but I belive it would be more freespace then it ever was with some realy cool weapons effects.
Title: Re: vasudan turret weapons?
Post by: Raven2001 on February 28, 2007, 06:43:12 pm
Not only on the weapon effects but on everything... even on the liberties modelers take on HTL models... heck ive seen quite the discussions about it, that were completely unecessary (the Cain comes to mind for instance)
Title: Re: vasudan turret weapons?
Post by: Mars on February 28, 2007, 08:17:04 pm
Let's leave the damage specs alone... shall we
Title: Re: vasudan turret weapons?
Post by: Bobboau on February 28, 2007, 08:58:16 pm
ok, I've started some work on this, I think I'm going to try and play off that fire motif, so for the vasudan huge turret it's going to be red-yellow orange, and generally look like a giant fireball.
opinions (http://freespace.volitionwatch.com/blackwater/VturretA.avi)

for the smaller turrets I'm thinking currently purple, but that wouldn't match the fire thing, so I'm not sure.
Title: Re: vasudan turret weapons?
Post by: Darklord42 on March 01, 2007, 06:51:04 am
ooh pretty!
Title: Re: vasudan turret weapons?
Post by: Raven2001 on March 01, 2007, 08:23:55 am
the effect is pretty nice, although imo the purple doesnt rly fit in there... try another color perhaps?
Title: Re: vasudan turret weapons?
Post by: Bobboau on March 01, 2007, 08:33:50 am
yeah, I just wanted purple some were, maybe I should make the vasudan turrets red-yellow and the terran turrets green and purple...

I'm makeing this into an impact explosion for huge turrets
http://freespace.volitionwatch.com/blackwater/swave.avi

hmmm... actualy, that doesn't look so good for an explosion (makes a good shock wave, not suprizeing cause that's what it was made for)
Title: Re: vasudan turret weapons?
Post by: Raven2001 on March 01, 2007, 11:26:37 am
Well, if your so keen on the purple, Id say use it in the shivans. In fact, it would look in place because you already use the pink on their beams :)

Coz tbh I dont see it fitting on terrans tbh, for those maybe a green and teal?

EDIT: Oh and that explosion animation would work very nice for the Vasudan huge turrets, if you keep it as a small shockwave, without any knockdown effect ofc :nod:
Title: Re: vasudan turret weapons?
Post by: Bobboau on March 01, 2007, 11:44:04 am
no shivans need to remain very close to red in all things, the middles of the beams are as far as I'm going to go there.

I tried it, Proximus seems to be able to make a thousand good shockwaves, but not so good with explosions.

right now I'm working on the tables, to put my three new turret weapons on vasudan ships, it looks like I might need to make vasudan turret versions of the subach and maybe a few others.
Title: Re: vasudan turret weapons?
Post by: Bobboau on March 01, 2007, 12:42:54 pm
give this a shot
http://freespace.volitionwatch.com/blackwater/Bob.zip

taylor is going to linch me, all those huge animations, I did mention that this is all going to need to be down graded eventualy, I was just keeping it in high quality for development and when it's done everything is going to have to be downgraded.
Title: Re: vasudan turret weapons?
Post by: Raven2001 on March 01, 2007, 03:52:50 pm
no shivans need to remain very close to red in all things

Purple is red, in a manner of speaking... so I guess it depends where you put the purple, and the "redness" of it
Title: Re: vasudan turret weapons?
Post by: Bobboau on March 01, 2007, 03:54:12 pm
well the sort of purple I want would definitely be not Shivan
Title: Re: vasudan turret weapons?
Post by: Raven2001 on March 01, 2007, 04:05:03 pm
well, then that sums it up allright :)
Title: Re: vasudan turret weapons?
Post by: S-99 on March 01, 2007, 04:13:36 pm
That vasudan shockwave would be awesome for a huge turret impact. It's an impact shockwave that really shows off the target has been hit with a powerful laser.  It'd really make capship laser fights a lot more attractive, they are effective, just no one cares for them generally, this'll be awesome when stuff in the port looks cooler from the new recosmeticized vas lasers.  Then capship laser fights won't be so simple or really boring because then it'll at least seem like the lasers are doing something serious.