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Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The Modding Workshop => Topic started by: takashi on March 07, 2007, 09:43:27 pm

Title: taka's general mod material
Post by: takashi on March 07, 2007, 09:43:27 pm
well, there you go. this is the thread where you can find mod material, from fighters, to weapons, to cargo containers(!?)!

first on the to show list, is a new terran-vasudan fighter. this time with more terran influence :). designation: none until POF'ed and tbl'ed.

(http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/8602/neatnewfighterpa5.png) (http://www.game-warden.com/narfin)

more to come, including the long awaited beam saber 1.5 and vulcan cannon
Title: Re: taka's general mod material
Post by: Unknown Target on March 07, 2007, 09:53:05 pm
Long awaited by who?
Title: Re: taka's general mod material
Post by: Turey on March 07, 2007, 09:59:23 pm
MY EYES! THE GOGGLES, THEY DO NOTHING!!!

Honestly, this is worse than that cargo container I made!
Title: Re: taka's general mod material
Post by: takashi on March 07, 2007, 10:03:44 pm
meh, thats just wing's crappy openGL rendering. seriously, the ingame will look MUCH better.
Title: Re: taka's general mod material
Post by: bizzybody on March 08, 2007, 02:58:19 am
It's made of hyperbolic paraboloids with a couple of jinks and jogs in the mesh. Easy to do in most 3D apps. Take any flat polygon with an even number of sides, then elevate some vertexes to make it non-flat. Hit quad divide a few times and there you have it, a 'hypar'.
Title: Re: taka's general mod material
Post by: aldo_14 on March 08, 2007, 03:27:47 am
You could offer a wee  bit of encouragement, y'know :)

Um, it is a bit undetailed, though.
Title: Re: taka's general mod material
Post by: jr2 on March 08, 2007, 03:46:13 am
...Get it finished, then post an in-game screenie, we'll see.
How would the SR-71 Blackbird look in wings' OGL rendering?
Title: Re: taka's general mod material
Post by: karajorma on March 08, 2007, 05:31:54 am
Quote from: aldo_14 on March 08, 2007, 03:27:47 am
You could offer a wee  bit of encouragement, y'know :)

They could. It would be a REALLY bad idea though.
Title: Re: taka's general mod material
Post by: Unknown Target on March 08, 2007, 07:25:51 am
Agreed. We're trying to save HLP from him :p
Title: Re: taka's general mod material
Post by: jr2 on March 08, 2007, 07:28:24 am
...like I said, takashi, finish it, post a screenshot of it in-game, and we'll see.
Title: Re: taka's general mod material
Post by: Raven2001 on March 08, 2007, 08:30:54 am
Encouragement :P : You need to work a bit on your skills. You already have a general shape, now start adding detail to it (greebles, engines, etc) :)
Title: Re: taka's general mod material
Post by: jr2 on March 08, 2007, 08:35:05 am
Thx Raven... someone with their head on straight... (no offense, but takashi needs direction and encouragement; he's not being a troll or anything.)
Title: Re: taka's general mod material
Post by: karajorma on March 08, 2007, 09:05:46 am
Takashi needs to stop passing himself off as an expert in every field and then maybe he'll listen for long enough to actually get good at something. Might also help if he stuck at something for longer than a day or two.

Title: Re: taka's general mod material
Post by: jr2 on March 08, 2007, 09:23:34 am
*skims through all of takashi's posts*
:wtf:
Maybe overenergetic, or maybe a bit hasty... but :confused: expert?

Quote from: takashi on February 23, 2007, 11:44:59 pm
now im no pro....but i think i know whats going on.

See?  :p  He just thinks he knows what's going on.  So when he doesn't, we'll help him out.  meh.  I dunno.
Title: Re: taka's general mod material
Post by: Col. Fishguts on March 08, 2007, 09:37:29 am
Quote from: jr2 on March 08, 2007, 09:23:34 am
*skims through all of takashi's posts*
:wtf:
Maybe overenergetic, or maybe a bit hasty... but :confused: expert?

He has a certain track record. (http://www.game-warden.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3339)
Title: Re: taka's general mod material
Post by: jr2 on March 08, 2007, 09:41:02 am
Oh.  *pulls foot out of mouth*
Title: Re: taka's general mod material
Post by: Turambar on March 08, 2007, 09:52:59 am
(http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/5974/untitled1xj5.jpg)

this is a WIP shot of my first model.

until yours looks as like its on the same level, please refrain from converting to .pof
Title: Re: taka's general mod material
Post by: Raven2001 on March 08, 2007, 10:03:17 am
Heck, he may have that bad record on his back (i wont even describ what I think of it, for pleasantries sake), BUT imo, that doesnt mean we should be acting totally moronic at everything he does\tries to do\whatever you wanna call it... besides, he seems to be enthusiastic on what he wants to achieve, no matter how ridiculous his ideas and actions can be.

One thing is certain: the more modders, the merrier. So from my part, Ill continue to give my honest input (be it good or bad) on what he does, try to teach and educate him on how to be a decent modder\artist, and a member of this community... ofc it will be up to him if he wants to listen or not. But ill be doing my job, flame free
Title: Re: taka's general mod material
Post by: jr2 on March 08, 2007, 10:04:44 am
... A-Wing?
Title: Re: taka's general mod material
Post by: Unknown Target on March 08, 2007, 10:32:48 am
Quote from: Turambar on March 08, 2007, 09:52:59 am
*snip*

this is a WIP shot of my first model.

until yours looks as like its on the same level, please refrain from converting to .pof

Just because you're a freak of nature and made an awesome model for your first model, doesn't mean  everyone else can :p My first model consisted of a sphere with the points pulled around (but I didn't post them on forums until I got reasonably good, and even then, I didn't rave about how much people were anticipating them :p).
Title: Re: taka's general mod material
Post by: karajorma on March 08, 2007, 10:38:47 am
Quote from: Raven2001 on March 08, 2007, 10:03:17 am
Heck, he may have that bad record on his back (i wont even describ what I think of it, for pleasantries sake), BUT imo, that doesnt mean we should be acting totally moronic at everything he does\tries to do\whatever you wanna call it... besides, he seems to be enthusiastic on what he wants to achieve, no matter how ridiculous his ideas and actions can be.


If it were just one thread I'd tend to agree with you. But when you have to go around correcting the bad advice he's giving other people you'll soon find it starts to grate a little.

Quote
One thing is certain: the more modders, the merrier. So from my part, Ill continue to give my honest input (be it good or bad) on what he does, try to teach and educate him on how to be a decent modder\artist, and a member of this community... ofc it will be up to him if he wants to listen or not. But ill be doing my job, flame free

I agree. The problem I had was with saying that he needs encouragement. He doesn't. What he needs is honest opinions on why this model is bad and what can be done to make a good one. You only need to look at GW to know that we've tried the softly, softly approach and it simply wasn't working.
Title: Re: taka's general mod material
Post by: Raven2001 on March 08, 2007, 10:53:36 am
I gave an honest opinion: I said he needs to pracrice on his skills, that greebling would go a long way, etc... however I didnt make comments like these:

Quote from: Unknown Target on March 07, 2007, 09:53:05 pm
Long awaited by who?

Quote from: Turey on March 07, 2007, 09:59:23 pm
MY EYES! THE GOGGLES, THEY DO NOTHING!!!

Honestly, this is worse than that cargo container I made!

I didnt see any constructiveness on them... as for the first quote: let him keep his illusions, he will naturally, eventually loose them :P
Its pretty simple, he will find out that if his stuff is sub-standard, people wont play it (which is bad for him). In the meanwhile, it is our task as a community to give our opinions (decent ones) on how he can make his stuff to standard level... politely, flame free.
In the eventuality that you are fed with his attitude, just say nothing at all :P

But honestly, flaming, being sarcastic or whatever, just gives us a bad name, which is negative in the long run
Title: Re: taka's general mod material
Post by: Unknown Target on March 08, 2007, 11:21:28 am
If you've had to deal with him as much as the GW crowd, I'm sure you wouldn't be as patient with him. :p

But, an honest critic? It's blah. Nothing particularly interesting about it, it looks like a half triangle stuck onto a larger triangle - and I'll bet you my bottom dollar it's made up of thousands of polies, 95% of which don't need to be there. The only thing reasonably bearable is the cockpit.
Title: Re: taka's general mod material
Post by: Raven2001 on March 08, 2007, 11:32:52 am
The day I loose my patience with him will be the day Ill start to not even bother to reply to his posts... simple, and no harm caused whatsoever

And there, you already made clear you dont like the design so much (your in a position to do so ofc), but then you had to ruin it with rudeness by stating something you cant even prove atm :P

However, I must digress. I do like the general shape, IFobviously the model is further worked upon... in fact I already have pretty clear in my head how it COULD end up like, and I like that psy-image tbh :D
Title: Re: taka's general mod material
Post by: FlareBaffled on March 08, 2007, 01:17:16 pm
It certainly needs far fewer polys in the basic mesh. You can see from the wireframe that the thing would need to have a lot of those polys triangulated to render properly ( lots of stretched geometry there.... ) The thing could be built with a lot fewer polys to get the overall shape, so the thing could have a load more detail built in to define engines, add panels of greebles to shape and fill out the rear area ( for example ) and to give it some weapon apertures etc.

This is a shape made up from stetching and squishing primitives, and then meshsmoothing ( or whatever Wings has that does the same thing ). When it comes to game modelling, you have to look for the fewest possible polygons to make any given shape. Plan your model.... don't just muck around with shapes until you think..'oh...it looks like a spaceship!' I do that on a pad of paper.....

Look at how many polygons you have...and whether they actually add anything!

Slap on a UV map before you post a picture ... it adds so much to the finished article!

Finally .... ALWAYS...ALWAYS...ALWAYS be modest about your work. If it's great, then let other people tell you. Nothing is long awaited unless people have actually been hassling you to finsh it :drevil:

Anyway....that's the benefit of my experience .... but then I have only been modding since Quake came out...so what do I know ;)
Title: Re: taka's general mod material
Post by: takashi on March 08, 2007, 02:18:12 pm
its meant to be sub-par for a reason. it plays into the story of the mod.

heres one fo the lines: beta 3: wow...nice ships (sarcastic)
Title: Re: taka's general mod material
Post by: Raven2001 on March 08, 2007, 02:50:06 pm
That doesnt mean the ship has to look unprofessional though
Title: Re: taka's general mod material
Post by: Titan on March 08, 2007, 03:38:43 pm
ya, make a heavy assault fighter that looks like a brick (I.E., make a ursa with bigger engines and less armor and loadout)
Title: Re: taka's general mod material
Post by: Getter Robo G on March 08, 2007, 04:20:43 pm
So..... (munches on more popcorn)...

He's making a mk VII Viper? *runs*


[Note and you know it's bad when it gets to the point I give modding advice and then retroactively he had the skill all along magically when in reality it was a day...] :P

Game on!
Title: Re: taka's general mod material
Post by: takashi on March 08, 2007, 06:34:33 pm
it would be SO much better if i knew how to make 3d cockpits.

ps: the triton class freighters were just cubes that someone messed around with before HTL. any simple model is just a reshaped primary. the poly count is 750 btw.
Title: Re: taka's general mod material
Post by: jr2 on March 08, 2007, 07:58:42 pm
..Forget the cockpits for now, get the exterior looking the way you want it.
EDIT:
(http://area51specialprojects.com/blackbird/tn_nasasr7101_jpg.jpg) (http://area51specialprojects.com/blackbird/nasasr7101.jpg)(http://area51specialprojects.com/blackbird/tn_nasasr7102_jpg.jpg) (http://area51specialprojects.com/blackbird/nasasr7102.jpg)(http://area51specialprojects.com/blackbird/tn_nasasr7103_jpg.jpg) (http://area51specialprojects.com/blackbird/nasasr7103.jpg)(http://area51specialprojects.com/blackbird/tn_nasasr7104_jpg.jpg) (http://area51specialprojects.com/blackbird/nasasr7104.jpg)(http://area51specialprojects.com/blackbird/tn_nasayf1201_jpg.jpg) (http://area51specialprojects.com/blackbird/nasayf1201.jpg)
(http://area51specialprojects.com/blackbird/tn_a2_jpg.jpg) (http://area51specialprojects.com/blackbird/a2.jpg)(http://area51specialprojects.com/blackbird/tn_a32_jpg.jpg) (http://area51specialprojects.com/blackbird/a32.jpg)(http://area51specialprojects.com/blackbird/tn_nasa84420_jpg.jpg) (http://area51specialprojects.com/blackbird/nasa84420.jpg)(http://area51specialprojects.com/blackbird/tn_nasa84413_jpg.jpg) (http://area51specialprojects.com/blackbird/ec95430754.jpg)(http://area51specialprojects.com/blackbird/tn_98102_jpg.jpg) (http://area51specialprojects.com/blackbird/98102.jpg)
(http://area51specialprojects.com/blackbird/tn_962rollout03_jpg.jpg) (http://area51specialprojects.com/blackbird/962rollout03.jpg)(http://area51specialprojects.com/blackbird/tn_a10_jpg.jpg) (http://area51specialprojects.com/blackbird/a10.jpg)(http://area51specialprojects.com/blackbird/tn_cockpi1_jpg.jpg) (http://area51specialprojects.com/blackbird/cockpi1.jpg)(http://area51specialprojects.com/blackbird/tn_ec97439334_jpg.jpg) (http://area51specialprojects.com/blackbird/ec97439334.jpg)(http://area51specialprojects.com/blackbird/tn_ec9744165149_jpg.jpg) (http://area51specialprojects.com/blackbird/ec9744165149.jpg)

...For inspiration.  (Look at my siggy :) )
(http://area51specialprojects.com/blackbird/tn_ec98448172_jpg.jpg) (http://area51specialprojects.com/blackbird/ec98448172.jpg)
EDIT: Apparently that server doesn't like links from other sites... The direct link is:
http://area51specialprojects.com/
under "SR-71 Photos"
Title: Re: taka's general mod material
Post by: takashi on March 08, 2007, 09:15:21 pm
nice, earthy, dull easy to do texture. i'll make it.

edit: that one plane witht he spade head looks like my cobra mk. II
Title: Re: taka's general mod material
Post by: jr2 on March 09, 2007, 03:02:02 am
:confused:
They are all the same plane (or variants of it).
But you can go to the website, it has all sorts of other area 51 planes for you to get ideas from.
Title: Re: taka's general mod material
Post by: Water on March 09, 2007, 05:19:08 am
Quote from: takashi on March 08, 2007, 06:34:33 pm
it would be SO much better if i knew how to make 3d cockpits.

Takashi

Yes the *SHIP* would be better if you could make 3d cockpits.

What people have been telling you for a while now is to get the basics done right. Making cockpits is the wrong direction for you right now. Get your ships looking like ships first. The skills you get from *DOING* this will automatically allow you to make anything you want, including cockpits.
Title: Re: taka's general mod material
Post by: Titan on March 09, 2007, 07:00:51 am
i remember this site, luft46.com has good material. i remember showing it to my uncle after i got it from the WW2 in space thread. he loves making models.
Title: Re: taka's general mod material
Post by: aldo_14 on March 09, 2007, 10:09:09 am
Quote from: takashi on March 08, 2007, 02:18:12 pm
its meant to be sub-par for a reason. it plays into the story of the mod.

heres one fo the lines: beta 3: wow...nice ships (sarcastic)

The problem is that very smooth ships are more organic and sleek than 'sub-par'.  Look at, say, am F-22 Raptor;
(http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/images/AIR_F-22_Landing_lg.jpg)

now look at an F-86 Sabre, a sub-par fighter when placed against the F-22
(http://www.warbirdalley.com/images/F86-1.jpg)

Note that it looks far more blocky than the modern, streamlined ship; particularly in that the wings, tail, etc noticeably 'jut' out rather than smoothly blend into the hull.  Whilst it's not a universal rule, of course, it generally stands that the smoother and sleeker a shape is, the more modern it looks.  Another example is the 2 types of Viper in BSG.

Arguably, it's harder to do a 'poor' ship than an 'elite' one.
Title: Re: taka's general mod material
Post by: FlareBaffled on March 09, 2007, 12:13:43 pm
A cockpit is simple to make .. it's just more modelling!

Build the outer tub, add a seat and control panels, and thats all there is to it. The mesh then has to be textured ( best to use a seprate UV map and material here... ) and finally you seperate it so it is a sub-object of the main hull. Glass needs another texture with an alpha channel to give transparancy. Add that as another sub object. If you leave the glass attached, you can get problems with the rendering if it's attached in teh wrong order.

Finally, you set the flag in the ship table to make the mesh visible "show ship" and make sure the eyepoint is in the right place.

It requires exactly the same skills as making a ships hull mesh.
Title: Re: taka's general mod material
Post by: Getter Robo G on March 09, 2007, 03:25:26 pm
to Get you started the community HAS a terran cockpit - somewhere (though you'll probably say you want your OWN). check the vp's.
Title: Re: taka's general mod material
Post by: takashi on March 09, 2007, 08:41:12 pm
anywho, WIP ancient (the species) fighter. the AF kaamos. screenies when its in the beta stage.
Title: Re: taka's general mod material
Post by: Turey on March 09, 2007, 09:09:37 pm
Quote from: takashi on March 09, 2007, 08:41:12 pm
anywho, WIP ancient (the species) fighter. the AF kaamos. screenies when its in the beta stage.

Hasn't someone already done this?
Title: Re: taka's general mod material
Post by: Getter Robo G on March 10, 2007, 01:03:29 am
You're probably thinking of the AF KATO... (and frankly I'm confused, "general mod material" would be like DaBrain's pack: [ effects, tables, maps, models that can plug into any campaign]).

Has anything in this thread actually been released as General Mod Material?

Title: Re: taka's general mod material
Post by: Turey on March 10, 2007, 03:32:46 am
Quote from: Getter Robo G on March 10, 2007, 01:03:29 am
You're probably thinking of the AF KATO...

That was it. Thanks.  :)
Title: Re: taka's general mod material
Post by: Snail on March 10, 2007, 07:58:12 am
Quote from: takashi on March 08, 2007, 02:18:12 pm
its meant to be sub-par for a reason. it plays into the story of the mod.

heres one fo the lines: beta 3: wow...nice ships (sarcastic)

By 'sub-par' they mean crap, not 'sub-par' in-game.

Here's a comparison for you:

(http://www.volition-inc.com/fs/images/spacecraft/gtf-hercules.jpg)
The GTF Hercules. Arguably the best fighter in FreeSpace 1. However:

(http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/images/Anubis320x240.jpg)
Anubis class fighter. Is it weak? Yes. Does it look weak? Yes. Does it still look cool and professional? Yes.

(http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/8602/neatnewfighterpa5.png)
Your fighter. Is it weak? Supposedly. Does it look weak? Supposedly. Does it look professional? No. It looks like what I was experimenting with in TS 3.2 in 30 seconds.

My point is, a weak ship does not look crap. A weak ship is not a block (by a block I don't mean Ursa, I mean an actual cube). Karajorma's GTC Big Fat Brick is not a pirate cruiser.

This is supposed to be constructive criticism, not a flame. If it looks like it, I'm sorry.





And on a side note, Turey, your cargo container isn't too hot either. (don't play with your balls and make it into a fighter) :P
Title: Re: taka's general mod material
Post by: Unknown Target on March 10, 2007, 10:22:56 am
Quote from: takashi on March 09, 2007, 08:41:12 pm
anywho, WIP ancient (the species) fighter. the AF kaamos. screenies when its in the beta stage.


See? This is why you've got the people over at GW mad at you. Do you even read the comments in your threads?
Title: Re: taka's general mod material
Post by: takashi on March 10, 2007, 09:43:57 pm
first, its su[[osed to lok like crap. more of script...this time a debriefing....

Quote
...you will be flying a ne wfighter desinged by ....jr....for this mission. be aware that the looks have been seriously degraded by his amature desing skills but it packs one.... of a loadout

some parts removed to avoid spoiling. and yeah, its somewhat of a comedy.
Title: Re: taka's general mod material
Post by: brandx0 on March 10, 2007, 10:41:20 pm
... Okay...

Any dialogue remnicient of this?  "This ... campaign has little ... no value to play because of god's amateur ... ability"
Title: Re: taka's general mod material
Post by: Taristin on March 10, 2007, 11:53:03 pm
Quote from: takashi on March 10, 2007, 09:43:57 pm
first, its su[[osed to lok like crap. more of script...this time a debriefing....


You're not hearing what's being said. Theyre not saying it looks like a 'crap'py ship. They're saying its a crappy model that you're trying to pass off as a crappy ship.
Title: Re: taka's general mod material
Post by: jr2 on March 11, 2007, 12:12:36 am
They are saying, it doesn't look like a crappy ship.  It looks like you can't model.  :D  So post that Blackbird, let's see what you can do..
Title: Re: taka's general mod material
Post by: karajorma on March 11, 2007, 03:49:55 am
Quote from: Snail on March 10, 2007, 07:58:12 am
Karajorma's GTC Big Fat Brick is not a pirate cruiser.

*boards Snails vessel and plunders all his booty*

Yaarrrrrr
Title: Re: taka's general mod material
Post by: FlareBaffled on March 11, 2007, 04:42:40 am
Er .... is it just me, or is this whole thread just a little bizarre!

Takashi has posted a picture of a very basic mesh squished into a kite shaped block. No real issue with that, other than the fact that it was clearly a very early attempt at making a ship that needed a whole lot more work to be finished. The title of the thread indicated we had some finished content to look at, but the body says nope...just a very unfinished attempt.

Some people flame Takashi ( partly for his FS3 pretensions, and partly because his ego seems far greater than his talents ) and others try to offer constructive criticism of the posted ship.

In return...Takashi seems to devote the effort he SHOULD be putting into making his ship look like something people might download into coming up with ever more obtuse storyline 'excuses' for why the ship looks like a squashed box.

At this point, I began to understand why the flamers were carrying spare fuel tanks........

There is no excuse for releasing or posting pictures of things like this. Learn the skills and post something finished. If youcan't master the art, get someone else to build your ships for you. Don't think the people here are stupid enough to think this is a comedy mod with stupid spaceships gets you off the hook quality wise! Stupid ships STILL have to be made with quality even if they are intended to make you laugh. The detail and the finesse needed is actually greater....

And as a final shot..... why would ANY race, country or state ever build a spaceship that was rubbish. The cost and the complexity of these things always meant they were at the edge of what the technology was capable of. Those that can't manage that never make it into space.

I reached a sad conclusion this morning ...... you are either in need of a serious reality check, or else you do this just to wind people up. Either way....I suggest you stop.
Title: Re: taka's general mod material
Post by: Snail on March 11, 2007, 05:22:02 am
Quote from: takashi on March 10, 2007, 09:43:57 pm
first, its su[[osed to lok like crap. more of script...this time a debriefing....

Quote
...you will be flying a ne wfighter desinged by ....jr....for this mission. be aware that the looks have been seriously degraded by his amature desing skills but it packs one.... of a loadout

some parts removed to avoid spoiling. and yeah, its somewhat of a comedy.

Read mine and Aldo's posts. Just because the designing abilities of the manufacturers suck, it still does not mean the ship has to be crap. It still means it has to look like a ship, no matter who designed it or how weak it is. It needs more detail. Much more detail. Where do you dock? Where you you load the missiles? Where are the gun ports. If your fighter looks like that, there's no way it will compare with the fighters in FS2 made by Volition.





Quote from: karajorma on March 11, 2007, 03:49:55 am
Quote from: Snail on March 10, 2007, 07:58:12 am
Karajorma's GTC Big Fat Brick is not a pirate cruiser.

*boards Snails vessel and plunders all his booty*

Yaarrrrrr

NO! My poor GTSG Watchdog!!!
Title: Re: taka's general mod material
Post by: takashi on March 11, 2007, 04:28:33 pm
to tell the truth....that was the first thing i made in w3d.

ps: the kaamos got cancled when i saw inferno's claymore 3.
Title: Re: taka's general mod material
Post by: Raven2001 on March 11, 2007, 06:09:51 pm
If it was your first 3d work, then face it like that: an experiment, and nothing to shout about.

You can however, employ what youve learnt on future works, as well as what ppl told you here. Never expect that your first model is gona be a piece of art
Title: Re: taka's general mod material
Post by: takashi on March 11, 2007, 08:54:01 pm
working on a mass drive rcannon. cant get the stupid texture to show up in exports....
Title: Re: taka's general mod material
Post by: jr2 on March 11, 2007, 09:00:27 pm
Well ask nicely for help.. maybe someone here will help you.  Just remember to listen carefully when they do. :D
Title: Re: taka's general mod material
Post by: takashi on March 12, 2007, 04:53:50 pm
so, how do you get textures from blender/wings 3d to show up in .3ds exports?