Hard Light Productions Forums
General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: Sarafan on March 09, 2007, 10:24:28 pm
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Just wanted to know what everyone thought about this, we all know that the Moloch has a fighterbay (and that it appareantly doesnt do anything :P). Would the GTVA benefit to make a corvette with a fighterbay too?
I mean it could be something like the Sobek on weaponry, armor, etc but with a new design (a bit larger) and with the fighterbay capable of holding a wing of figthers (the best would be something more all around like the Myrmidon), I say this because I dont think a Deimos would be able to carry the same weapons and add a fighterbay.
Since it would essentially have its own fighter cover all the time, it would free up other wings deployed from destroyers to do something else and it could grant it a more indenpence role (i.e: being able to strike enemy targets by itself and operate more indenpendently from the main fleet).
So?
A note: this is just about corvette class ships, not about a ship like the Iceni, that's a frigate. ::)
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There are ships like these in the Inferno mod.
I'm pretty sure that someones also modded one too, just not with your specific design points.
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There are ships like these in the Inferno mod.
Yeah, there's the GVCv Geb and I think that it has one. Unless it was removed.
And IIRC SA's Udjat had one too...
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And IIRC SA's Udjat had one too...
Correct.
(Hi, I'm NGT after my permissions were borked!)
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Because of the design, I dont think Fighter bays are really managable on the GTVA corvettes, espicially the Sobek. Deimos might work, but you have to wonder if GTVA fighters are VTOL capable. Also, Iceni strikes me as nothing more than a slightly over-gun/armored Corvette. ::) And even then, a bomber wing can turn into scrimshaw.
On a side note, what happen to ngtmn1r?
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Why would they need to be VTOL capable? If they got a fighterbay on a Deimos they would have to clean a lot of space and the first thing to go would be weapons (like those rear anticap beams) where in the Sobek, it just needs to be redesigned into a somewhat larger ship to accomodate the bay.
On a side note, what happen to ngtmn1r?
Did something happened to him?
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Why would they need to be VTOL capable?
Assuming (which is reasonable) artificial gravity, there may be a runway issue with regards to launching or landing (decelerrating) ships. I doubt it'd be a problem, myself.
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No runways on the Hecate. Doesn't even have a decent-looking fighterbay. If you want to add fighter-carrying capabilities to a Sobek, I suggest bolting it on to the underside of the ship, like a ventral tray.
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On a side note, what happen to ngtmn1r?
Did something happened to him?
He wanted out of a project internal and accidentally had all his permissions removed, including his one to exist.
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Is that why it says "Guest" under all posts by him now?
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The SOCv Ehreos is a nice example of corvette that has a fighterbay.
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Though it has geometry errors.
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What? What kind of errors?
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Ehreos? Is that one from Inferno? Anyway, if there is someone who would undoubtely benefit from this is the SOC. Does anyone have a image of it?
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Err I have a reskinned SOCv Ehreos...I don't post a picture because you will probably shoot at me...
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C'mon, it cant be that bad, do it.
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Err I have a reskinned SOCv Ehreos...I don't post a picture because you will probably shoot at me...
-Loads rifle-
Just kidding.
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There are ships like these in the Inferno mod.
Yeah, there's the GVCv Geb and I think that it has one. Unless it was removed.
And IIRC SA's Udjat had one too...
The Geb is in the OTT model dump, you can download it at Hades Combine
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GTCv Oculus has a fighter bay. I think I got it from Hades Combine through a link. :confused:
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There are ships like these in the Inferno mod.
Yeah, there's the GVCv Geb and I think that it has one. Unless it was removed.
And IIRC SA's Udjat had one too...
The Geb is in the OTT model dump, you can download it at Hades Combine
I was talking of Inferno actually. I know it's on HC.
What? What kind of errors?
Um... I've heard you can fly through part of it, but I'm not very sure. The paths are also mixed up (number 1 of wing should be at a different place because they just collide together).
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Um... I've heard you can fly through part of it, but I'm not very sure. The paths are also mixed up (number 1 of wing should be at a different place because they just collide together).
Uh in Steadfast Ep1 there currently are 3 missions where you fly close to an Ehreos+ a cutscene. I never noticed that bug...
I can't UL a picture because it's even worse that the Steadfast reskin.
Snail, you should have the VP with "my" Ehreos. Are you supposed to test Steadfast?!?
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A corvette is supposed to be a corvette... no fighterbays..
Looks to me what you're looking for is light carriers. I know there are a few around...
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A corvette is supposed to be a corvette... no fighterbays..
Looks to me what you're looking for is light carriers. I know there are a few around...
A Moloch is a corvette and it has fighterbay.
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The problem with a corvette fighterbay, the way i see it, is that you can't fit a lot of fightercraft on there, so there's little diversity in ship selection.
Maybe we could make some sort of heavier all purpose fighter and fit that on there? The Myrmidon just doesnt seem like it can handle more than small craft...
Idk...I was doodling in my research lab the other day while some parts degreased. Came up with something that looks like it should have pretty heavy firepower, but also high speeds. Maybe not so maneuverable, but able to take on most assault and superiority craft and dispatch them quickly. Perhaps you could mount some Stilettos or something in order to disable destroyer class ships, then have the corvette jump in on its vulnerable flank and rip it to pieces.
Hmm...If I could find my damn notebook again. I guess Ill redraw it.
IIRC the Moloch is plagued by inability to launch very effective strikes from its fighterbay, i.e. a bomber wing, but crap escort, or fighter wings without any real punch.
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How about the Erinyes?
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Better the Mara... ;7
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How about the Erinyes?
Something like that. A lot of primary banks, but Id say three secondaries. Two main for holding harpoons/hornets/tornadoes etc., and one bay for holding few stilettos or something. That way, you can perform those ever so crucial surgical strikes while sacrificing as little antifighter capability.
Anyhow i found the drawing id made. It sort of looks like a larger, bulkier Valk.
Maybe you could put the guns along the "wings", the two main secondaries on the sides of the cockpit, and the third bay on the underside....It would be really big, but then you could give it some supercharged Nankam powerplant, or perhaps a Vasudan one.
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Damn this is exaggerated. :D
Powerful power plants(engine)are Vasudan designed(i.e.) Deimos...
You are talking about banks like the ones of the Amun?
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What about an old-school (TV War-era) fighterbayed corvette?
By the way, for reference, modern-day aircraft carriers (317m for Nimitz class) are larger than Fenrises (253m) and can carry 64 aircraft.
Given the fact that FS corvettes are about twice the length of a Nimitz (and quite a bit taller and wider) I'd say a light carrier about that size would be a logical class to have. Certainly would have been cheaper than putting a destroyer in every backwater system that needed fighter patrols. :p
But all the Terran fighterbayed corvettes (Ehreos, Oculus) are SOC as far as I know, which kills the whole "low cost" idea. :sigh:
[edit] Note: I'm not counting the PTCv Baranec since it's not so much a "class" as a couple of asteroids built into one another.
There is the Victor, but it was made a while ago with the old, non-HTL version of the Deimos, and is intended to be a rough conversion rather than a production class.[/edit]
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I have no idea of any of these ships everyone keeps saying. :nervous: Well, the Sobke was made after the first GW but a predecessor could have existed in the TW, maybe a test bed for future technology, perhaps deployed only in the end of the TW?
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I have no idea of any of these ships everyone keeps saying. :nervous:
* SOCv Ehreos was part of Inferno R1 and IIRC was not seen in the campaign.
* SOCv Oculus is a combined AWACS/mini-destroyer, available for DL on Hades-Combine.
* PTCv Baranec is intended to be a secret pirate command ship. It's meant to hide in asteroid fields, since the pirates built it out of roids and stolen parts. Also available on HC i think.
* RMCv Victor was something I had intended to use as a mercenary command ship in my now-defunct campaign Heroes for Hire, and is essentially a Deimos with an Argo bolted onto the side and used as makeshift hangar space.
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I don't remember the Oculus, but I can ensure that SOC doesn't always mean high-cost.
SOC operations are oftentimes based on the deployment of a small number of fighters, that need a recovery ship(Into the Lions Den). The "normal" fleet operates in such a manner that doesn't require small ships able to launch spacecraft.
Sarafan, you're going to see the Ehreos in Steadfast. To be honest, the idea of a corvette able to launch fighters inspired the missions where the Ehreos class SOCv Neuquen is present. :nod:
EDIT: I wrote "mission"...now it's "missions" ;7
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What sort of infrastructure is required to maintain a squadron of fighters? You'd need a place to hold plenty of primary weapons, LOTS of secondaries (especially if youre raiding larger ships), fuel (Im guessing that wouldnt be too bad, since they use efficient fusion and what not; you could compress the deuterium gas and save space there), and repair equipment.
My guess is that this sort of setup would really limit the reactor space and weapons capabilities on the carrier ship. Alternately you could skimp on these things and just keep some small frontline supply depots...but they would be vulnerable to raids wouldn't they...
Anyhow...it's tricky. It seems very hard to balance firepower with ships available. The Colossus, for example, has about 60 wings, a HUGE number, but then again its a HUGE ship. If you look at the fighterbay on the schematics in that one Colossus cutscene its very small compared to the rest of the ship. On the other hand of course it has the weapons systems and reactor power to simultaneously take on 4 destroyers and come out on top...
If they dedicated the entire ship to fighters, no weapons, Im sure you could fit upwards of 240 wings.
So you have to deal with that.
:doubt: anyhow...im hungry :p
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What about the Sparta from the StratComm Terran fleet pack? i using it in my campaign, but StratComm originally designed it as a heavy transport.
(http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/871/spartapd4.th.jpg) (http://img95.imageshack.us/my.php?image=spartapd4.jpg)
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axem is making attachments to freighters that make them carriers! (its on his site)
so i guess i'll make attachments for corvettes, since my ships generaly suck.
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Stop pimping your mod in every damn thread you post in! For the love of god!
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I think fighterbays on corvettes are bad idea unless you mean corvette carriers. Take a look at Moloch: it's got small fighterbay, but in price of firepower smaller than GTVA corvettes. It'd be much better to make two type of corvettes: battle corvette with no fighterbay, but large amount of both AC and AF firepower and corvette carrier with medium AF and no AC, but fighterbay for few fighter and bomber wings. That pair would be ideal strike force: battle corvette provides standard fire support while corvette carrier stays in hiding and deploys fighters to support battle corvette.
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The Moloch is weak because it has SRed beams. He should have at least a LRed.
What sort of infrastructure is required to maintain a squadron of fighters? You'd need a place to hold plenty of primary weapons, LOTS of secondaries (especially if youre raiding larger ships), fuel (Im guessing that wouldnt be too bad, since they use efficient fusion and what not; you could compress the deuterium gas and save space there), and repair equipment.
No, if you're in a covert operation...or you simply have to stay without supplies for max one day.
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The problem with the Shivans in FS2 is that they only have 3 beams. If you give a ship an SRed, it will be too weak. Giving it an LRed will make it too powerful. IMO the Shivans should have an MRed or something similar (SSlash?).
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Inferno has a MRed :D
I think that Slashing beams are far from the Shivans' philosophy.
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The slash beams I always thought were put in for eyecandy effect. They miss so often that they're practically worthless in anti-capship warfare.
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Completely correct. They're just foe Eyecandy.
You surprised me, DH. I couldn't imagine you would have come out with a so intelligent sentence ;)
:D
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Slash-type beams aren't crap, they also don't miss often (or at least I haven't seen such things), they simply have different effects because they move through target's profile dealing damage to multiple areas, stream often goes beyond profile, so some damage miss target, but they have much more chance of hitting turret/subsystem than standard beams. They're simply defensive beams, while standard ones are offensive.
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Well you're damn right if you consider the Hades, for example. It's engines are damn weak.
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Inferno has a MRed :D
You think a super-obsessed Inferno fan boy wouldn't know that!?
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But we're not in the Inferno board, so no one is supposed to know that there are MReds in Inferno.
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I guess.
Well the Moloch needs a medium beam OR a ****load of SReds to be effective (I'm talking about 8 beams in good positions). The Moloch can't do enough damage to targets of size before being destroyed. The Rakshasa or Lilith (with its jolly old LRed) is good for that purpose.
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If you look the Moloch you realize that it's intended as an oversized cruiser, able to launch fighters. I'm pretty sure [V] would have used a second class of Shivan corvettes in FS3, much heavier than the Moloch.
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Such as the Byrn/Scylla?
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Moloch doesn't need more/better beams, its 3 SReds are good enough to support fighters, which are its primary weapon. Moloch *will* win with Deimos if you count its fighters in, it'll either launch fighters to disarm Deimos or bombers to seriously damage it (I can't say anything exact as I don't know how many fighters/bombers does Moloch have).
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Well basicly what is required here or rather what has been described here is a poket size carrier with some ac weaponry. Something a bit bigger then a corvette yet smaller then a destroyer with one beam cannon hjeavy tipe or a pair of slashers . It has to be cheap fast and prove to be a good ship for the fleet. Basicly a poket carrier with a few wings on it maib e 10 wings which would be its primary weapons acompanied by battle corvettes or normal corvettes .
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AlphaOne - beam cannon on your carrier limits its loadout by about 5 wings (20 total), IMHO carriers should be ships without any AC weaponry.
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Well basicly what is required here or rather what has been described here is a poket size carrier with some ac weaponry. Something a bit bigger then a corvette yet smaller then a destroyer with one beam cannon hjeavy tipe or a pair of slashers . It has to be cheap fast and prove to be a good ship for the fleet. Basicly a poket carrier with a few wings on it maib e 10 wings which would be its primary weapons acompanied by battle corvettes or normal corvettes .
Only mounting one uber-beam on a ship doesn't equate to balance, y'know :)
In all seriousness I think to have any sort of dedicated carrier vessel requires massively limiting its loadout, probably to a defensive-only level of flak and AAAf weapons. Otherwise it's simply not different enough to justify the new designation.
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In the real world, carriers are much more important than destroyers(and they're also bigger). Inferno carriers represent well the idea of some kind of "mother-warship", the real center of its fleet.
There might be light carriers, of course...
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Carriers may be much more important than destroyers, but remember that without destroyers the carrier has an higher probability of being attacked and seriously damaged, because aircrafts can't be airborne forever, while escort ships can remain on station for months.
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...It has nothing to do with our current discussion and IMHO carriers carry <-- ;) --> more spacecraft than the other warships of a fleet put together.
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You know, I never meant this to be a pocket carrier or carrier of any sort, its simply a corvette with a fighterbay (capable of having 2 or 3 wings, nothing above that), in other words, a GTVA version of the Moloch. IMO it would be really worth it, something with 3 medium anticap beams, not much on AAA weapons since it would carry its own escort around.
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well if we are talking about fs era carriers then tha is not correct. The shivan corvette could be considered as some sort of heavely armed poket carrier yet has very few spacecrafts to speak of. Also Destroyers are a hibri design between carriers and a dedicated warship. Therefore they have a limited amount of spacecrafts available on hand compared to they huge size. Strip out the repair facilaties, fule storage for the spacecrafts armaments spare parts and i bet you could put at least 2 more beam cannons on the thing .
While a dedicated carrier while I agree that it should have just aaaf weaponry on it is rather a bad idea because shivans have a nasty habbit of breaking through the fighter bommber screen of a ship to take it head on that is why I was talking about ac weaponry on it.
However a dedicated corvette well rather a bit bigger then a corvette would be very usefull IMO . Give it the abilaty to cary 5 or more wings 10 seems to be a very good number to me . This way you have a significant force projection on it and coupled with a pair of Aeoulous or other corvettes and you have a sizebable force guarding a sistem because to me it seems a waste of time to have the destroyer fleet scatered across all of the GTVA controled space instead of grouping them toghether in a more powerfull fleet. Perhaps something like 3 or more destroyers per fleet grouped around the most important sistems and/or near hot spots or the front lines.
This way you have the abilaty to strike the enemy much faster and harder then before while leaving a sizebable force to patroll other sistems wihtout afecting the overall power of the war fleet.
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They have a lot of spacecraft available.
Think about the Demon or the Ravana: both destroyers can carry many spacecraft thanks to their shape. The Sathanas should also carry an incredible amount of spacecraft. Only a small part of the Colossus' hull is dedicated to spacecraft.
The Shivans might not rely so much on vessels between the cruiser and the destroyer since they have superdestroyers and juggernauts that can pulverize planets and star systems. Both the Terrans and the Vasudans rely on corvettes as exploited by the tech description of both the Deimos and the Sobek.
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While a dedicated carrier while I agree that it should have just aaaf weaponry on it is rather a bad idea because shivans have a nasty habbit of breaking through the fighter bommber screen of a ship to take it head on that is why I was talking about ac weaponry on it.
However a dedicated corvette well rather a bit bigger then a corvette would be very usefull IMO . Give it the abilaty to cary 5 or more wings 10 seems to be a very good number to me .
Your 5-10 fighter wings is WAY too small count for a light carrier. See how your beam limits its abilities of carrying fighters? It could have even up to 20 wings without your beams (depending on size, but I think about 1,2km long one should be able to have that number). Also situation when Shivan capital ships attacks carrier isn't so simple as you say. Carriers are supposed to hide inside system in places such as asteroid fields or nebulas where enemy sensors are completly jammed and their detection via standard means is impossible (evidences is in both FS1, where detection of Vasudan fighters in quite small asteroid field was very hard and FS2, where NTF cargo depot was very well hidden inside similar asteroid field). Shivans have got ability of detecting jump signatures inside whole solar system which may blow carriers' cover, but when GTVA is defending their own territory, it can make some carriers to hide and do no actions (which will hide them from Shivan subspace detection) and some to reveal themselves and draw Shivans' attention. Fighting carriers will be probably wiped out (but not so fast as modern carriers will probably have multiple jump drives to make jumps more often and avoid direct confrontation), but engaged Shivans will create hole which can be later used by hided forces and deal serious casualities to them.
Think about the Demon or the Ravana: both destroyers can carry many spacecraft thanks to their shape. The Sathanas should also carry an incredible amount of spacecraft. Only a small part of the Colossus' hull is dedicated to spacecraft.
Actually we've got no idea how many fighters do they have. Basing on in-game experience Demon has got minimal count as about 50 fighters, while Ravana and Sathanas 100. Sure, they could carry more, but that'd create VERY serious tech hole beetwen large and small Shivan vessels as destroyers and juggernauths would be much more uber than cruisers and corvettes. Also Sathanas isn't that large as for the first look (take a closer look at it and you'll discover it's overall capacity is only little larger than Colossus'). IMHO Sathanas is filled with reactors, which deliver their power to main cannons and subspace weapon, while Colossus by housing 2,5 times more fighters has got fewer reactors and, as a result, limited firepower.
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Not true the Collie has more then enough reactors to handle its beams. It's standard beams. Remember the Collie overloaded most of its beams if not all of its beams to do more damage to the Sath before it could escape or get into weapons range.
Also remember that a Hecate can carry 150 spacecrafts in its bays. And when you first look at it it does not seem to be much space in it.
A corvette with 10 fighter/bommber wings on it with limited ac weaponry or no ac weaponry but loads of aaaf weaponry could carry probabli the same amount of spacecrafts posibly a bit more something like 12 wings.
As for the ac weaponry on a small carrier to me would be more of a defensive measure since the beam cannons while powerfull could not protect the ship against a dedicated warship .
Also remember that the Hecate is more of a dedicated carrier and C&C ship then a destroyer like the Orion or the Hatshepsut which altouh have similar large fighterbays posibly a bit smaller the Orion has something like 100 spacecrafts and the Hecate maibe something like 120 or so have also more firepower in terms of beam cannons.
As for the small number of ships inside a carrier based on a corvette to me it seems more then adequate . Think about it you have something like 20-48 spacecrafts on it I mean that is half the amount an Orion has and 1/3-rd the number of a Hecate in a ship that is less then 1/3rd of a Hecate . Remember its not just the lenght of the ship it is all the dimensions.
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Not true the Collie has more then enough reactors to handle its beams. It's standard beams. Remember the Collie overloaded most of its beams if not all of its beams to do more damage to the Sath before it could escape or get into weapons range.
Also remember that a Hecate can carry 150 spacecrafts in its bays. And when you first look at it it does not seem to be much space in it.
A corvette with 10 fighter/bommber wings on it with limited ac weaponry or no ac weaponry but loads of aaaf weaponry could carry probabli the same amount of spacecrafts posibly a bit more something like 12 wings.
As for the ac weaponry on a small carrier to me would be more of a defensive measure since the beam cannons while powerfull could not protect the ship against a dedicated warship .
Also remember that the Hecate is more of a dedicated carrier and C&C ship then a destroyer like the Orion or the Hatshepsut which altouh have similar large fighterbays posibly a bit smaller the Orion has something like 100 spacecrafts and the Hecate maibe something like 120 or so have also more firepower in terms of beam cannons.
As for the small number of ships inside a carrier based on a corvette to me it seems more then adequate . Think about it you have something like 20-48 spacecrafts on it I mean that is half the amount an Orion has and 1/3-rd the number of a Hecate in a ship that is less then 1/3rd of a Hecate . Remember its not just the lenght of the ship it is all the dimensions.
Albeit aren't you making a huge assumption in that every technological component can be reduced in size equally with the physical size of the hull?
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My ideal ship would be a unarmed, bare-bones carrrier, with just enough space to hold 15 or so fighters and logistics support. Like in all space-fighter games, capital ships in Freespace are little more than dumb targets, even though FS capships are the most capable of any game. Carriers, corvettes, and so on seem extremely expensive. I'd rather buy 5 Ursas or 20 Perseus than a Leviathan. Go into FRED and create a mission with 5 bombers against a Aeolus- even if it's average AI flying the bombers, the cruiser won't stand a chance.
So, yeah, a fighter bay on a GTVA corvette would multiply the corvette's combat power by two or three times.
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Why you're saying that carriers are unarmed?!?
They should be the best defended warships in existance!
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He's talking about mini-carriers, LGM. Minicarriers. Cheap and mass produced, not big hulking flagship mommas.
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FS bombers are way more effective than the capital ships they're meant to destroy. Freespace is meant to be enjoyable from a player's point of view as a fighter pilot, as are all space shooters, so capital ships are necessarily nothing more than targets. FS2 ships have impressive flak and beam defense, but what really protects them are the fighters. Try playing Bearbaiting, Slaying Ravanna, or a similar mission without the fighters, and you see how weak the capships really are against proper bombing tactics. I understand the need for large ships for storyline purposes- most players expect a game to have destroyers, cruisers, and even Sath-type ships for the sake of the "oooh, look at that big ship" factor. But ships like the Colossus, although impressive individually, aren't an efficient use of resources. This is because FS2 bombs are rather powerful versus the armor they're meant to destroy. As an example, it takes no more than 20-30 Harbingers to kill a Lucifer (without invincibility, of course). Compare this to the Yamato in 1945, which survived over 100 torpedo and bomb hits.
A light carrier would be ideal, something like a hollowed-out Satis with a fighter bay inside. It could outfight anything fast enough to catch it and outrun anything else.
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A Satis is waaayyy too small.
A heavily gutted Argo might be able to carry a wing and the supplies and spare parts for it (making a reasonably nice Q-ship), but it'd be godawful poor at defending itself.
A Triton with a special cargo (*coughs in Axem's direction* :p) could probably carry a full squadron worth or so, including supplies, but again it would be poor at defending itself. For reference, useful bay space in a TC-TRI-sized fighterbay would probably be about 45m*85m*150m, after making room for pilot quarters and secondary stockpiles and spare armor and such.
So, functionally about one squadron, assuming a suitable level of spare parts and no Ursas. :p Smaller, less ammo-intensive fighters like Ulysses, Thoth or Loki would probably be common in there.
I'd estimate that to be a tactically and logistically viable deployment platform, a minicarrier would have to be at least 2-3 times the volume of a Fenris.
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For those of you who have seen Babylon 5, or played the Babylon Project (although that doesn't show how it works so well) how about something akin to the Raider carrier there. this has a minimal habitat area, and the stores the fighters externally, or even more extremely the Black Omega carrier, which is basically a shuttle with six fighter hung from the bottom.
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My ideal ship would be a unarmed, bare-bones carrrier, with just enough space to hold 15 or so fighters and logistics support. Like in all space-fighter games, capital ships in Freespace are little more than dumb targets, even though FS capships are the most capable of any game.
You havn't played X-Wing: Alliance then. Try attacking a ISD there. It's like a Hecate where ALL of it's weapons are flak/aaaf!
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Nope, I never played X-Wing Alliance. I never caught on to the X-Wing/TIE Fighter series, maybe because I only have the old games. But I do remember that what we would call "blob turret fire" in FS2 moves much faster in the X-Wing series, your shields are lower and it's harder to dodge. So you're probably right. Interesting challenge. Kind of like attacking an Aeolus by yourself, right? :snipe: (HLPBB needs a good space fighter smiley.)
In the FS1 mission Reaching the Zenith, the SC Zenith, a Lilith class, is "said" to carry 2 fighter wings, or 6 fighters (3 Manticore 3 Scorpion). There isn't a functional docking bay on a Lilith or Cain if you go into FRED, but docking bays are visible on both models. Now, the Lilith is an incredibly strong warship for its size, with 75,000 HP, almost enough to make it a destroyer. If you were to strip all those heavy weapons off, I assume, you could make a somewhat smaller carrrier that still carries 6 fighters. It's just hard to tell. We have no way of knowing how much logistics support FS fighters require. What I would prefer are a few small ships for the fighters to dock at traveling with Elysium ammo carriers to give them missile reloads. Hell, those support ships seem to carry A LOT of weapons, don't they? Why not just use them for your "carriers"? :lol:
As for the Argo-carrier not being able to defend itself. Yeah, but I assume that as kind of a given for a light carrier. It's not supposed to be right up there at the front with its fighters, it deploys fighters, they jump out and then return to base. An Argo can survive 3-5 bomb hits, which is enough. If you're taking more bomb hits than that, you're probably in bad shape anyway and it's better to loose a cheap transport than a real carrier.