Hard Light Productions Forums
Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The Modding Workshop => Topic started by: takashi on March 16, 2007, 08:20:10 pm
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if name isnt sefl-explanatory, this project makes the stoc fs2 weapons look pretty. no, not ameteur pretty, mediavp pretty. since im too lazy to do all this by myself, i need more people working on this.
NEEDED:
texture artists
modelers (can you say mass drivers?)
table guru's
MORE texture artists
effect guru's (slow fire rates deserve trails)
MORE effect gurus (impact explosions for each weapon)
as of now, i have barely anything done, as my texture exports arent working. anyone want to join?
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Doesn't the MVP already have new weapon effects...?
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Yes it does.
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Indeed they do. I think Tak is thinking effects on a scale that is liable to hurt performance. All I needed to do to spruce up a shot was to add a single particle to it and there you have it, a cool unstatic effect.
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Wow, and for a second I thought he was duplicating my effort from his thread title... Fortunately not...
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not to mention my effort.
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...takashi, have you even tried the mediavps?
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Bob: You're doing effects right? (or are you doing models also?)
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Eh, I think he's on about using models instead of effects for the weapons...
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http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,45459.0.html
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hows that turret upgrade project goin? it looked cool.......
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media vp's have weapon effects? *checks* oh yes they do....
but not good enough. think the reason why we have 3d shockwaves. flying textures arent fitting in with the rest of the game, you see. :)
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...and you are qualified to make this pronouncement how? What would you prefer? Resource-wasting 3d spheres with glowy textures on them? Why?
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not good enough
Like you could do any better... ::)
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i'll take that as a challenge.
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Make sure you actually do something, this time.
Or did you delete those, too?
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i'll take that as a challenge.
Actually I think it was closer to an insult...
*checks insult-o-meter*
Yep...definitely insulting...
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ud8kayser_new.zip (http://www.zshare.net/download/ud8kayser_new-zip.html)
THIS time a retexture (for the sake of particle spew). just for a taste. the morning star is next.
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Is anyone willing to risk life and limb to try that thing?
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Maybe in two days... when I have time.
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it doesent hurt performance at all. now my version of the maxim.....that eats performance.
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That's not necessarily a good thing. Any screenshots perhaps?
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Yes, that'd be nice... or better yet, google FRAPS, get that (you can use the free version till you decide to buy the full one, you just get limited to 30 second clips) and upload a movie to youtube.
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wow, he took the Akheton effect from the media vp and shifted it's hue by 20, and just took the other ones outright... he must truly be The One.
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taka, is that all you did? If not, spell it out, before you get pwned... This should be you --> :nervous:
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Yeah.. extremely simple re-use of old effects (including bunch of .ani files) complete with table file which does not work (-expl.tbm is not valid).
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Wow...sounds like it really sucks takashi.
Somehow I'm less than surprised.
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thats the ahketton effect? i have VPmage. if i tryed to extract any file it would corupt and photoshop wouldnt be able to open it. and to tell the truth, i wont have any fast internet connection for 2 more days, so until then all i have even close to the weapon effects is SCP screenshots. my only .vps are mv_core and mv_textures.
when i finish the whole set terran/vasudan weapons, i'll just release a new weapon-exlosion table since SCP doesent seem to support .tbm files for that.
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Takashi... you cant just assign a random name to file with .tbm extension and then hope the game to id the file from there.
http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Modular_Tables
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that was fixed just a few hours ago :)
the upgrades will be released in my mod....since some of the glows/articles will be used there.
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i'll take that as a challenge.
It's an insult, a challenge, and advice. You cannot defeat the power of MediaVP 0wnage (Inferno's a good example, it has good effects but compared to the MediaVP's it is sort of lacking).
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Oh the hilarity :lol: Please go on, make more.
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that was fixed just a few hours ago :)
Actually, the only thing edited on that page since october was a spelling error, the word extented was changed to extended. Wanna look again?
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This is the last diff of the wiki page..
-*[[ships.tbl]] can be extented with '''xxx-shp.tbm''' (XMT)
+*[[ships.tbl]] can be extended with '''xxx-shp.tbm''' (XMT)
One before that was made 12th October. First revision containing information about modular weapons_expl.tbl was added in 2005. Takashi, you only make yourself look like utterly clueless noob with your claims.
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This thread is awesome. :D
Although to be fair, several of the existing media VP weapons do need to be replaced. The maxim and circe still look atrocious, as they have ever since the new weapon effects were created.
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His title is truly fitting
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fixed.zip - 0.05MB (http://www.zshare.net/download/fixed-zip.html)
not exactly an upgrade...its a custom weapon. but still good. place all files except for the .tbm in effects, and the .tbm file in tables. name for use in ships tables is "Lightning".
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lol
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what? i gave instructions on how to install. not everyone who browses this section knows how to mod...
(post a zinger and get it)
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not everyone who browses this section knows how to mod...
QFT!!! :rolleyes:
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use the weapon already >_>
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not everyone who browses this section knows how to mod...
QFT!!! ::)
LOL! That was awesome.
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not everyone who browses this section knows how to mod...
QFT!!! ::)
Oh man, perfect! :lol:
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not everyone who browses this section knows how to mod...
QFT!!! ::)
Oh man, perfect! :lol:
doubly perfect.... :o
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wanna screenie of the Zodiac fighterbeam?
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No?
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No?
no
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:p yes... so I don't have to waste time trying to make it work with my setup etc... this make it easier for me. Just use ImageShack, and use the code for Forums, the one that ends with [/img][/url]
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I'm bored, make the funny man come back please.
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I think Takashi deserves some respect..... he has really worked hard to entertain us all with his amusing posts and wonderful claims. Now..if he could just put that much effort into making something worthwhile, he may become an asset ... for now,though, just remove the 'et'
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respect is earned, not given. and nobody deserves it.
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actualy, im puttting alot of effort into something. a wonderful claim as it is, it needs proof:
(http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/2674/fihgterbeamqs1.png) (http://imageshack.us)
man, that thing is devestating. it lasts 3 seconds with a 1 shot every 5 seconds fire rate! i took down 300 enemys in 5 minutes. i'll balance it out more as it needs tweaked and finalized.
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I wasn't aware that aldo had made that old PS ship available.
it's such a shame we never got anywere on that mod.
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i glowmapped it :D
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where?
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I wasn't aware that aldo had made that old PS ship available.
it's such a shame we never got anywere on that mod.
He made all of them he modeled for PS iirc: that fighter, the bomber, a cruiser, a support ship, and a stealth fighter i think
And yeah, shame the mod didnt go anywhere at that time... up to us to bug Ice and Ace after BWO I guess ^^
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Hello, either your glow map is uber weak or your ambient lightign is messed up as you should be able to see even a tiny bit of glow except in full daylight...
Example (I rushed this aldo so please excuse my hideous glow map...) 10 minute job... I will clean it up later!
(http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/7079/eoslr8.jpg)
GLOWMAP! (See the difference? All the yellow, blue, etc lights are glowing now...)
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your glowmap trumps mine on all levels, especialy brightness.
oh, and bob, i fixed the Kato, and gave it cool HWish trails
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takashi...I don't really...see a glowmap on yours. Post the glowmap itself maybe, hm?
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Hello, either your glow map is uber weak or your ambient lightign is messed up as you should be able to see even a tiny bit of glow except in full daylight...
Example (I rushed this aldo so please excuse my hideous glow map...) 10 minute job... I will clean it up later!
(http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/7079/eoslr8.jpg)
GLOWMAP! (See the difference? All the yellow, blue, etc lights are glowing now...)
have you been doing acid again
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Arrrrgh! A Giant purple Aardvark! :nervous:
Seriously though, it looks to me as though the engine is drawing the entire texture as a Glowmap in Takashi's one. It's actually normally a lot easier to make a whole new glowmap than trying to convert the original texture into one, since even stuff that looks quite dark on the map can still cause a sort of 'ethereal' glow to the ship.
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I wasn't aware that aldo had made that old PS ship available.
it's such a shame we never got anywere on that mod.
I think they were all in a modeldump a wee while back. That wasn't the best ship, anyways, I don't think white (or very light) ships look too great in FS2. At least for the way I texture them.
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Like I said it was a rush job... normally I zoom up to 800 or so ans get the pixels as slose as possible to the edges, this was a 10 minute hack at 200 % so especially the engine details have hull splotches around them still showing...
I was just trying to prove a point to Takashi, I wasn't really doing the job this ship deserves.
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Unfortunately, the...ummm....whatever it was called (Eros? nary a clue) was made back in the olden days so, even if I had the psd somewhere, it wouldn't have any layers to work with.
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actualy, im puttting alot of effort into something. a wonderful claim as it is, it needs proof:
Picture here
man, that thing is devestating. it lasts 3 seconds with a 1 shot every 5 seconds fire rate! i took down 300 enemys in 5 minutes. i'll balance it out more as it needs tweaked and finalized.
Right, I'm the first to admit that I'm not qualified to comment as I have no idea how to mod (teaching myself blender at the moment), BUT, just tweaking the stats to make something incredibly powerful isn't really a proper mod, is it?
A cheat, maybe. Mod, no.
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This is true, but to be honest, all weapon modders when they start out usually make 'Teh B34M of Dh00m!' as one of their first attempts ;)
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Then I guess I don't fit into that category then, my first weapon mod was to slightly speed up the ROF of the subachs.
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Mine was a modification of Tempest: GTM MX-6B Blackfly missile based on Tempest missile, slightly lower yield offset by good homing capacity (faster Harpoon clone) and the usage purpose: to neutralize bombs, utterly useless against anything else, so it was suitable for interceptors with low secondary capacity... But I couldn't bother editing many intercept missions to enable it for use.
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:lol: I might have known this would start happening when I said it was among the first mods done by most weapon modders.....
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This is true, but to be honest, all weapon modders when they start out usually make 'Teh B34M of Dh00m!' as one of their first attempts ;)
I made the blob of doom..... a 200m wide gun that shook the screen and could blow up a Fenris with one shot. Followed by a few weeks of playing with Fred seeing exactly how big a shockwave I could make by chaining together a Hades, Knosso, Ganymede, Demios and 3 Arcadias with special explosions set to maximum.
Ah, those were the days :D
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Has anyone ever FREDed a Rube Goldberg mission of exploding ships doing stuff? :drevil:
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Has anyone ever FREDed a Rube Goldberg mission of exploding ships doing stuff? :drevil:
If not, they bloody well should do!
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This is true, but to be honest, all weapon modders when they start out usually make 'Teh B34M of Dh00m!' as one of their first attempts ;)
I made the blob of doom..... a 200m wide gun that shook the screen and could blow up a Fenris with one shot. Followed by a few weeks of playing with Fred seeing exactly how big a shockwave I could make by chaining together a Hades, Knosso, Ganymede, Demios and 3 Arcadias with special explosions set to maximum.
Ah, those were the days :D
:lol: Yup, admitedly back then we'd only just started getting the modding tools, so we had some defence ;) I think making an uberweapon was the next step from making a mission with a Fenris with every turret fitted with a BFGreen ;)
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or every fighter :)
my first weapon was "t3g ub3r l4s3r"
a huge shot about 2 miles long and as wide as the collosus. i mounted it on a wing of myrmidions and wacthed 250 saths go boom.
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... And you managed to get 250 Saths in mission how?
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... And you managed to get 250 Saths in mission how?
Probably using some sort of special BS amplifier!!
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I'd suspect he used something like 50 waves of 5 Saths, that's how I'd do it anyway.
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...And it is true that using an Inferno build, I think the limit is bumped from 130 to 250...
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yep. i use the inferno buid alot. its just so fun! i might release the test mission, but if you have any media VP's active you might exerience a major framerate drop.
ps: i'll release the following soon also:
glowmapped and shinemapped AF kato with gunpoint and table fixes
shinemapped ymir
glow/shinemapped eos with gun/eyepoint fixes
special weapons i made for them (including a shivan variant of the morning star thats mounted on the kato)
just MAYBE new circe and lamprey effects.
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...And it is true that using an Inferno build, I think the limit is bumped from 130 to 250...
That is the number of ship classes allowed for the tables. Not the limit for the actual number of ships per mission.
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Ah, I see. Hmm...
yep. i use the inferno buid alot. its just so fun!
::)
Well?
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fighterps-01t_glow.pcx - 0.02MB (http://www.zshare.net/download/fighterps-01t_glow-pcx.html)
eos glow map. it was a rush job, so an eventual re-release when i can do a real glow map. when i get better at shinemapping i'll release that too.
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To be honest, for SCP your best bet is to use .tga or .dds format, since if you're using indexed .pcx, you're actually using only about a thousandth of a percent of the colours available, I'll admit that for fighters it probably doesn't make a vast difference, but for larger glowmaps and effects, it will very much show through.
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personaly, i would nevr use .dds. people who want to re-skin for a mod have to ask the creator, who has to dig up the file and upload it. .PCX is my favorite format mainly because its retail compatible.
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people who want to re-skin for a mod have to ask the creator, who has to dig up the file and upload it.
What? Why can't they just use the copy on their computer?
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.pcx is probably more portable than .dds certainly, though most graphics cards that can run SCP really shouldn't have a problem with them. However, I'd recommend .tga over .pcx at the very least, and let people convert down to 256 colour if they need to.
After all, most people here who play FS2 are using SCP, and you might as well take advantage of the abilities it has to offer.
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personaly, i would nevr use .dds. people who want to re-skin for a mod have to ask the creator, who has to dig up the file and upload it.
That does it. I'm starting a quote list of stuff you've said that makes no sense.
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...or you get off your arse and DL one of the many DDS converter/viewign programs and batch convert them to PCX or a in between program for batch conversion liek I just did for NUKEMOD (more testing/disecting...)
SHEESH! Never bother the creators UNLESS you need permission for something (ie like usage, if they didn't mention it in their read me's)...
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personaly, i would nevr use .dds. people who want to re-skin for a mod have to ask the creator, who has to dig up the file and upload it.
That does it. I'm starting a quote list of stuff you've said that makes no sense.
That's gonna be a long list.
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Dude, takashi, don't talk about things you don't know about. It's obvious to everyone on this board you are a poseur and you should just stop.
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whats to blame when no-one even tells one about dds2pcx converters. cynical senior members....
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http://eliteforce2.filefront.com/file/DDS_Converter;29412
This one might do the trick, though not all converters work perfectly, some will produce .dds that won't show in Freespace iirc.
You know, you never actually asked if anyone could recommend a .dds converter in the first place ;)
For more info on textures, be sure to use the wiki, and remember, converting pcx files to dds will do absolutely nothing, since they are only 8-bit to begin with, so start with 24 bit tga files (since you're not using transparency at the moment, when you start doing transparent textures, use 32-bit tgas) and convert everything from those, since they are lossless and full-colour.
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YOU are to blame, because you stated something as a fact:
personaly, i would nevr use .dds. people who want to re-skin for a mod have to ask the creator, who has to dig up the file and upload it. .PCX is my favorite format mainly because its retail compatible.
without actually asking anyone, or UTFG. And if you ask what that stands for I'm really going to find out where you live and blow it up. Maybe, just maybe, if you had tried to find a way to work with a dds file, you might have figured out how to edit one without bugging the creator for source files. After all, how do you think it got created in the first place? It's not some magical proprietary format, or we wouldn't even be using it! Please, STOP making statements of fact, on areas you are unqualified (read: any area). Please. I won't ask nicely again.
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personaly, i would nevr use .dds. people who want to re-skin for a mod have to ask the creator, who has to dig up the file and upload it. .PCX is my favorite format mainly because its retail compatible.
So, wait, let me get this straight...you're making glowmaps only in PCX because it's retail compatible...
Except retail doesn't support glowmaps!
So where's that crazy logic of yours now takashi?
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i know very little about the engine and make random guesses. besides, .pcx is nicer than .tga. less memory usage, but editable without need of conversion.
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What painting software are you using for making your textures?
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i know very little about the engine and make random guesses. besides, .pcx is nicer than .tga. less memory usage, but editable without need of conversion.
Oh thank GOD you finally admit it. Now why don't you do us all a favor and stop giving your wrong advice to everyone and pretending you know what you're talking about!
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I suppose your best bet is this:
Use the Wiki, read through the parts on texturing models and the formats and extensions available.
http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Portal:Modding
If you're struggling with ideas such as 'Alpha maps' or the various DXT Formats, then post here and we'll help if we can.
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i know very little ... and make random guesses.
:wakka: :hammer: :headz:
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you do realize that those 8 bit pcxes will be converted to 24bit rgbs (or 32 rgba?) by the engine, stored in vidmem and rendered as such? dds is simply the superior format cause it can be stored and renderd without converting from its compressed format. for 24bit maps you get an 8 to 1 compression ratio in dtx1 (no alpha), dtx 5 gives you a 4 to 1 compression ratio with alpha. if youre about to pull the download size gripe out, i find that dds also zips well. this is why the nukemod zip is less than 50 megs to download, dispite alot of rather large textures.
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i see. tell more.
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http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,37158.0.html
read under "Inefficient use of technology"
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besides, .pcx is nicer than .tga. less memory usage, but editable without need of conversion.
no, the only texture that will save you memory is the dds format you have chosen to shun because you assumed it couldn't be edited.
at least dds has a less destructive compression.
stop saying x is better than y, like you have some sort of justification when you have no idea.
here let me explain the subtle differences you could make in how you speak. in sted of:
".pcx is nicer than .tga. less memory usage, but editable without need of conversion."
you could pose it like this
"pcx seems better than dds because it looks like it's easier to edit. doesn't it use less memory too?"
to which someone would very infaticly tell you about the memory differences, and someone else would ask you what you meant about editability, to which you would tell them you didn't know how to to which they would direct you to a dds converter or plugin. do not presume to know, and for the love of god don't give out "advice" based on "random guesses".
now, TGA isn't a bad temporary format to use while in development, but when you get done with something EVERYTHING should be in dds. you should note, I am one of the people who made FSO, so this is how the engine expects things, tga ect are there for convenience, backwards compatibility, and those rare instances when compressed dds just doesn't do the job well enough.
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like in d3d mode....
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Err... DDS stands for Direct Draw Surface iirc, which suggests to me it was designed for D3D more.
Hopefully Bob can confirm this, but you are more likely getting errors because D3D still needs some work before it's at OGL levels again, not because of the image format. Certainly, as far as I'm aware, OGL mode is strongly recommended for the SCP.
Edit : Your best bet is to give it a go under OGL and see if things work any better to be honest.
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like in d3d mode....
Takashi.... please...take some SERIOUS advice.
YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT
You are making statements about how good or bad a format is that you cannot use. DDS is a common format, optimised for gaming use, and editable in just about any half-decent graphics program. There is a free plugin for Photoshop put up by Nvidia, and several free programs to convert or edit. Irfanview is a good choice for conversion. Your experience in these things is so patently limited you have made a complete fool of yourself several times in this thread stating things we all know aer not true. You are trading your uninformed opinion on texture formats with people who helped create and code FSO and who know exactly how the games rendering engine works and what it does with textures. DO NOT DO THIS. They know more than you. If you get your head out of the clouds and ask fo radvice, you might one-day learn enough to actually make statements on how things work... but right now you clearly know jack about texture formats.
Why would ANYONE recommend an 8 bit PCX file as the best choice unless you have a ZX81 for a computer. ( look it up in a history book... ) If your idea of making good glowmaps is to muck about with a stock texture a bit and lsap on -glow ....well....let's just say you won't ever get a decent result unless you actually put in a little bit more effort.
If you persist in making unfounded statements. I promise you know... I will hound your silly statements across every single FS Forum and flame you till your ears crisp. :mad:
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Will people please show a little patience in here, the last thing we need is yet someone else scorching their way through the forums :p
Look, I know it can be frustrating when people make mistakes, especially ones that can be easily corrected with a little research, but the best thing we can do for now is to help Takashi get to grips with the whole modding thing where we can, this is a modding forum, if he's wrong, then tell him so, and correct him, but please, don't start declaring vendetta, it's hard enough work already, without making more for me :)
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i know very little about the engine and make random guesses.
Then ask.
You'll find that if you ask "Which is the best format for textures" people will answer you.
If you flat out state PCX is the best when you have no knowledge on the subject at all people will point out why you're wrong and be annoyed at you. The simple fact is that we expect newbies to be clueless about the engine. It's not at all surprising that they don't know everything about FS2 because it is new to them. So if you don't know something don't be ashamed to say "I don't know" No one will think less of you for not knowing everything.
What annoys people though is when you pretend like you do know things you haven't got a clue about. Especially when you get defensive about one silly mistake and compound with an even dumber statement designed to get you out of trouble. Don't do that. If you simply say you're wrong no one will complain. If you start telling people who designed the engine or who have worked with it for years that they are wrong and you are right you're going to put peoples backs up for no good reason.
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which is the best format for glowmaps, and how do you apply a glowmap to a moddel that is already a .pof?
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i know very little about the engine and make random guesses.
I find this more than a little scary cause it's like I'm (almost) looking in a fraking mirror...
Oh wait I know, the difference is that I don't accuse Devs of being wrong when I have no skills myself, make a vague reference to the possibility I MIGHT have been a volition employee "for all you know", and in short be a complete arse since almost day one spamming multiple threads.
On second thought that mirror is looking more cloudy (I hope!). :D
You would think by know a person would end their BS and learn how to deal with people on a Mod board instead of constantly butting heads, insulting those who try to give advice, and clearly is a case of wasted potential. (I'd strangle you over the net to gain your "skills"... And then take a long shower.)
[EDIT!] I can't believe you just asked that... You already made a glowmap and posted the result in game yesterday? As long as a pof has a texture named "whatever" adding -glow to another copy will make it the glow map for THAT texture no matter how many pof's use that texture! Since you already achieved it, it should be OBVIOUS. you can use .pcx, jopg, tga, and dds (as long as appropriate options are chosen in launcher, I am still learning about NEW SCP modding myself, I am mainly a retail/DTP3.1/3.6.0 person)
Lastly I was just reminded: Why are you complaining about not knowing about DDS converters (which we just TOLD you about) when you just said "I would never use DDS" anyway?.... Sounds more than a little hippocritical to me. :P
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which is the best format for glowmaps, and how do you apply a glowmap to a moddel that is already a .pof?
The best format from the games point of view is .dds, since it is small compared to tga. It's best to use those where at all possible.
Adding a glowmap to a .pof that already exists is simply a question of making an image with the same name as the models main texture and adding -glow to the end of it, so you get...
TFighter1.dds
TFighter1-glow.dds
The non-black parts of the glow texture get 'added' to the main model texture.
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Err... DDS stands for Direct Draw Surface iirc, which suggests to me it was designed for D3D more.
Hopefully Bob can confirm this, but you are more likely getting errors because D3D still needs some work before it's at OGL levels again, not because of the image format. Certainly, as far as I'm aware, OGL mode is strongly recommended for the SCP.
Edit : Your best bet is to give it a go under OGL and see if things work any better to be honest.
dds is a DX native format, D3D was the first graphics API to support compressed textures, so OGL just sort of absorbed it, it doesn't work any better in one API or the other cause they use the exact same hardware, it's probly the only place were both APIs work exactly the same.
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which is the best format for glowmaps, and how do you apply a glowmap to a moddel that is already a .pof?
the best texture for glow maps as for all textures is generally dds.
the current workings of FSO (as of the last four years and into the foreseeable future) for glow and shine maps is you simply need a texture with the name name as the base texture with -glow added to the end. for example a ship who's main texture is filename.dds would have a glow map by the name filename-glow.dds and a shine map by the name of filename-shine.dds.
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On the other hand - we're getting a whole lot of information in this thread. Takashi will never use it, obviously, as he knows best, but it's *very* useful for quite a few people.
I noticed that quite a few of the threads Cobra was in ended up having a high signal to noise ratio, also.
Coincidence? Probably not.
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who says i wont use it?
how do you even make a shinemap? change the regular map to grayscale?
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A shinemap doesn't quite work like that, it well add a metallic effect of the colour you use, they work the same as Glow-maps as in Black means no effect, but if you, for example, use a strong red in the -shine map, then that part of the main texture will have a strong red-tinted metallic effect.
(http://www.aqsx85.dsl.pipex.com/Ursa.jpg)
For example, with this shot, you can see that most of the model has a shine that is grey/blue, but the jet exhaust is a strong brass/gold colour. That was done by using the colours on both the colour map and the shine map.
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can i see a shinemap so i know what it looks like?
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The one for the Ursa looks like (Big image btw)
(http://www.aqsx85.dsl.pipex.com/shinedemo.jpg)
You can see where the 'yellow' colouring on the jets comes in :) In all honesty, it could benefit from being half the size, but that's really down to personal taste ;)
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i will say that dds is not a format to edit in. i do all my stuff directly in photoshop format and only save as dds when theyre done. tgas are useless to be cause they dont store all my layer and path info that psd does. if youre a 1 layer texturer go ahead and use tga, but i work in many layers, sometimes more than 100 of them.
as far as i know dds was designed for and as part of direct 3d. however the support for the format goes down to the hardware level so if you throw a dds into video memory regaurdless of what api you use, the video card will know what to do with it.
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You should also notice that the alpha of the shine map controls the environmental reflections. Basically if you enable the 'use specular alpha for env mapping' then it will have effect in game. For example if you then leave it out game will use equally strong reflection all around the ship but by editing the alpha you can make certain parts of the ship reflect more and others less (like cockpit glass etc.). Basically unless you are really making the spec alpha for env mapping leave the texture without any alpha. As other wise you might get ships that wont reflect anything (having 0 alpha) or ships being seemingly made out of glass (by having 255 alpha).
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:eek2:
So much to learn... thx takashi... make it easier on yourself next time and just ask; I think I will follow you around the forums and absorb info from the replies you get. I suppose I could have just asked myself, but that would require knowing what to ask. :D Very cool information here.
Oh, In all honesty, it could benefit from being half the size, but that's really down to personal taste ;)
make a poll. I think you'll find more people than you think agree with you. (Myself being one of them.) They look a bit ridiculously large.
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DaBrain once said something about it being a bad idea to make the shinemap smaller than the base texture. I'm not sure why though.
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it's lack of detail will wash out the base texture's detail.
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Ah, that explains it. To be honest, I'm probably being over-protective of video ram, since modern cards have around half a gig, but it's force of habit :)
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Mine's only got 256... isn't there a way to detect the amount of RAM, and then compress the textures and / or advise the user to turn off some options as needed?
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Simply adjusting your graphics settings would probably be the best bet, though that tends to take some level of control out of your hands.
This is why .dds format is so important. As a TGA, that shinemap, with the environment map on the Alpha channel takes up 4 Megs. As a dds with the same info, it takes up 1 meg ;)
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Nice.. but what about the poor soul who's using a donated comp with 128 megs? Or, horrors, an on-board with 256 total mem, 64 of it shared? :ick: the ppl who make those comps should be tried for C.&U.P.
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Nice.. but what about the poor soul who's using a donated comp with 128 megs?
Oi!!! I resemble that remark! I've got an Nvidia 6800LE with 128 megs (all pipes unlocked with RivaTuner) and I get a great framerate with everything on max (including AA). FPS drops to about 40 with those 3d shockwaves when a cap ship goes up.
Nothing wrong with 128 Mb gfx cards.
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Ah, sorry, didn't mean to offend... 128 Meg cards are alright, but you do realize that when Flipside says:
Ah, that explains it. To be honest, I'm probably being over-protective of video ram, since modern cards have around half a gig, but it's force of habit :)
he's saying "ah, well, most people have 512 Megs of RAM!!! I have 256. You have 128. Some have 64. Poor us. ;)
EDIT: I do have a few old 3DFX cards that have 16 Megs... :doubt: But the least you'll see on a halfway decent system is 64.
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I started out with a 512k 256 Colour VGA card :p
Heh, either way, adjusting the detail settings should help. I suppose if someone had the time and the webspace, they could simply go through everything in the .VPs and half the size of them, maybe call it the mid-res pack or something, but I have neither alas.
Edit : In fact, I seem to recall something to this effect existed once?
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so how do you make something black shine?
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Use a dark grey-ish colour is your best bet.
Remember environment mapping is also an option, which is a 'reflection' type effect, that IS greyscale based but has to be done in the Alpha channel. I'd suggest getting comfortable with the basic stuff first, you can always add Alpha maps to the Shine map later :)
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thanks! bobs kato will be fso ready in no time!
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Will you pump the texture (make it better-looking)?
Liking the new attitude, taka. Gaining some respect [from me anyway] ;)
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Question.
How can I make a shinemap that only affects the specular lighting and no (alpha) env mapping at all?
If the shinemap has no alpha, the environment mapping system reads the RGB value and uses it instead (from what I can gather anyway...). If there's alpha channel (and if alpha env mapping is checked), it uses it instead... But i'd like to know how do I alter the alpha values without changing the RGB values? I'd love to have a shinemap that doesn't reflect the background at all, but has a strong specular reflection, and I would think it would require an RGBA shinemap with alpha values of zero everywhere, but RGB values of something, depending on the reflectiveness at that spot.
So how do I make a texture like that on GIMP? With grayscale textures it's simple enough to turn both black and white to transparent, and the alpha channel does go to zero on the whole image... but what if there's colour in the map? Do you have to turn every colour to transparent one by one - red, green, blue, cyan, magenta, yellow, black and white? ff0000, 00ff00, 0000ff, ffff00, ff00ff, 00ffff, 00000 and ffffff? Or does that even work either?
Or is there a simple button or plugin that changes the existing alpha channel's values to zero globally in the texture?
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I'm not a Gimp user unfortunately, as I use photoshop, I'll have to check up on that, it's been a while since I did a shine-map without any e-mapping. I'll try and take a look on Photoshop tonight and see what happens with a few settings.
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Much appreciated. :)
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It seems that saving as a DXT1 type dds, i.e. RGB - No Alpha, seems to do the job.
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I've tried that, but then the env mapping system simply seems to use the RGB intensity instead of nonexistant alpha channel. The background stars definitely shine out if I simply save a grayscale image in RGB file (DXT1a or 24-bit TGA) and use it as shine map.
I did test what happened when I played around with the transparency of a gray scale image (well, not true gray scale but gray anyway, with saturation of zero): I made first black and then white transparent. The whole grayscale image became transparent (Alpha values were zero everywhere) but the pixels remained their RGB value - exactly what I was looking for.
It also worked in-game. There was no stars reflecting from that shine map, but specular reflection was there. Also, it seems that I had the right idea about the colour pictures too - I did the same thing to red, green, blue, cyan, magenta, yellow, black and white: changed every one of those colours to transparent, one by one, and the whole colour picture became transparent with alpha channel zero, but pixels retained their original RGB value. So, the problem seems to be solved.
...that is, as long as the most complex thing you want is to disable env mapping entirely for a shine map by making a global alpha channel of zero value. But I guess that you could paste differently transparent stuff on top of this basic layer with zero alpha value.
I stumbled upon this problem when I tried to make shine maps for a planet model. Water doesn't actually reflect like a mirror when you look at it from space so I was a bit frustrated when the RGB-shinemaps reflected the background stars, but this method seems to actually work. Yay. :)
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Hmmm.. that sounds like the problem there is that Gimp is a lot more specialised for this kind of thing than Photoshop is to be honest. I tend to just create an Alpha channel on the shine map and then select all and fill with Black, but the thing with Photoshop, I think, is that you can choose whether the Alpha Map affects the transparency of the image while working on it or not, so you can just work on the alpha as a seperate greyscale map and ignore the image unless you need to see it :)
I certainly can see the difference between the Ursa and, say, the Medusa, which seems to be incredibly shiny compared to many of the other ships, I might take a look at that at some point...
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Sorry for the Double Post, but it looks like the Medusa has a pure white Alpha-map, which explains the extreme shininess.
This looks a bit better if anyone wants to try it :)
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Also, it seems that I had the right idea about the colour pictures too - I did the same thing to red, green, blue, cyan, magenta, yellow, black and white: changed every one of those colours to transparent, one by one, and the whole colour picture became transparent with alpha channel zero, but pixels retained their original RGB value. So, the problem seems to be solved.
...correction to this. It does something to the image all right... but it's a bit weird and doesn't seem to work as I would think it should work. :confused:
If the photoshop has a way to edit alpha channel as a separate layer, by all means that sounds a far superior choice. There is a channel editor in GIMP too, but I can't even paint the alpha channel black for some reason. Edits to alpha channel seem to affect all other channels as well. :sigh:
As for the medusa shine map - i suspected as much, thanks for confirming it. :)