Hard Light Productions Forums
Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The Modding Workshop => Topic started by: JGZinv on March 17, 2007, 12:14:27 am
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Made up my very first ship, somewhat reminds me of a carrier from
StarFox in one of the Zones.. or maybe White Base from the original Gundam.
Had a tutorial handy so I thought I'd take a shot to see what the Max tools
were like for geometry. Applied a basic/simple 6 color set of textures. I deviated
from the tutorial quite a bit actually.
(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d1/GuardianZinv/Misc%20Images/FirstShip.png)
Didn't particularly have a goal or end thing in mind when I started. The wings are invisible
on the bottom shot there due to them being painted black... There's no cockpit to make it a fighter
or bomber, I wasn't able to make anything I liked on the front, so I left it as a blank for whatever
future purpose may come. Ship itself took about 4 hours total, texturing might total a single hour.
Evidently I need to learn a lot more about creating shapes and what affects what...
If I was to revisit it sometime later with better skills, I'd probably make it more of a proper carrier.
Delete the cones to either side of the main shaft, make 3 bays, add a secondary set of
wings with rounded edges as extensions of the first. Get some greebles and proper texturing on it.
But there it is, if you'd like a copy of the Max file for some reason or use, I'll post it.
I'm open to suggestions or advice.
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if its not a texture applied by a UV map (AKA painted on) freespace will read it as invisible. but spot on getting the starfox style! thought of joining shadows of lylat?
http://game-warden.com/starfox/
yes, i know its not like im an *official* devoloper, but i can still direct people.
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taka, you aren't a developer at all. stop misleading people.
as for that ship. got it in-game yet?
modelling is the fun, easy part. error checking, uv-mapping, and conversion to working pof are the hard parts.
i'd say, for now, convert it to pof now, using all the resources lying around here (look at karajorma's faq) so you have an idea how it works.
also, make sure you save before you use the max plugin. it gets... tempermental
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if its not a texture applied by a UV map (AKA painted on) freespace will read it as invisible.
Ever heard of cubic mapping, planar mapping, spherical mapping or *gasp* cylinder mapping? No? Thought so.
EDIT: JG, for your first ship the model looks quite decent. You should try to break up the boxy shapes more and add some detail to various areas.
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bump mapping :)
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Bump mapping is something completely different and is unrelated. Congratulations.
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I was just thinking something, then I saw his title, then I noded.
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bump maps=detail
see, its not unrelated. it corresponds with the post before it.
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bump mapping and UV mapping are definitely not the same thing, directly related. A bump map is a way to add detail...but you also have to UV map FIRST. It simply allows for some visual trickery to simulate fine detail without using polygons. Do not worry about that!
It is definitely worth getting this into a POF and making it workable in game.
If you are building this in Max, check the WIKI for the Max plugin to convert to POF. It has it's foibles, but is basically quite effective for those of us who do not model in Truespace! Just follow all the steps exactly, and save your model before you attempt to export the POF. If it doesn't work, Max crashes..... It's not too hot on error trapping ;)
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I'll try and get a longer post in here later after dinner, but the topic title
suggest that the Max plugin is for versions prior to 7 or 6 I believe.
I'm using Max 7.
Basically don't have any other plugins installed, although I went
and got the greeble one finally.
As to textures and detail, no I probably didn't uv map it
or really do anything in that regard. I just applied the texture to
show it and keep it from looking "naked."
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hey, im using MAX7 too.
thats why us with newer copies of max use PCS to convert.
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takashi
you have no idea what youre talking about, and you continue to prove it.
the max 6 plugin works for max 7 and 8, but not 9. we use modelview to place the guns and get coordinates for the engines, which we have to place in PCS. bump mapping is not the same as uv mapping or texturing, and it was not corresponding with your earlier post. either you have some sort of learning disability, or youre some kind of freakish perpetual noob. between this and your 'unofficial dev' status that you think you have at SoL and your 'long awaited' meshsmooth nightmare, i'm not quite sure what to think of you at all.
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[Minor tangent]
Congrats Takashi: as posted mere hours ago on GW
"this is only happening on game warden...strange. must be the OTHER troll of the year guy...
anyway, notice that crapfest happens with lack of anything to properly discuss."
You've constantly pissed people off on both boards and still don't have a clue. Why must you keep on talking about procedures that are more advanced than you OWN apparent skills? You started off on the wrong foot and since then kept sticking your foot in your mouth instead of settling in.
Is this some sort of attempt at impressing people or passing off your abilities as higher than we think they are (proven works) or merely convincing yourself? I nominated you for "NOOB of GW" and it looks like your quickly claiming that title for HLP as well...
[Tangent Ends]
Great first ship JGZinv!
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Yea, it's not bad for a first ship. Certainly better than anything I can do with Max - I can't figure out how to do anything other than rotate/pan the view in that program :)
[Minor tangent]
Is this some sort of attempt at impressing people or passing off your abilities as higher than we think they are (proven works) or merely convincing yourself? I nominated you for "NOOB of GW" and it looks like your quickly claiming that title for HLP as well...
[Tangent Ends]
He apparently thinks that he will somehow impress us with each successive post. The best part was when he claimed to be a former Volition employee and developer of Freespace.
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Takashi -
Even though I may be an StarFox junkie, I'm already on my own mod with RazorsKiss.
Others -
This was the tutorial I was using at the time -
http://www.oman3d.com/tutorials/3ds/spaceship_aziz/
Thanks for the comments.
I'll look into getting the Max plugin, but I really need to get my modeling skills built up. RK has the conversion/rigging
from Max to FS2 down, but we both need to learn modeling at this time - he being somewhat ahead of me already.
We've decided to remodel all of the fighters in our Tachyon mod, due to geometry errors that
some of you are aware of. That would be my first major goal skill and capability wise.
On the personal side of things, I'd like to eventually get up to the point where I can model these:
(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d1/GuardianZinv/Tachyon/Ships.png)
Typically you could say that's far-fetched, but I'd rather aim high.
I wish that Adobe had a modeling suite, due to the toolset and standardized system.
I am fairly decent with Photoshop CS.
Have any links to favorite tutorials that deal specifically with "getting the shape you want"
and the mirroring feature? RK and I both have tried to use the mirror without getting it to
function. I'm already reading through what books I have that cover these subjects,
but more information never hurts. Tips help, but I'm fairly visual and often need to do it with my
own hands to really grasp the function/use.
Thanks again.
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you'll get there, just keep on tryin'
make sure to convert to editable poly instead of editable mesh, and keep draggin those verts and cutting when tou need to.
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That's far better than I'll ever be able to do. I have a lot of respect for people who start down the path of learning skills like this.
(Also, excellent choice of the Gekko there. :))
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That's a nice first model. The front looks a bit too simple but other than that, it looks good.
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Screams out "GECKO!" *Dies*... :lol:
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Technically - it's the "Gekko-Go" or "Midnight" :D
I did find out there's a tech guide with prints, so it's a possibility.
The one below it is the "La Muse" and there's 9 names for different
versions depending on color and weapons package.
I've got a few others in mind that haven't been modeled before
unfortunately, but that'll make it all the more worth while to finish out.
Looking over the Max plugin, what benefits are there to using it?
Obviously you don't have to use TS... but it seems that it's either
going to crash or cause much trial and error to figure out where you made a mistake?
Maybe that's a blessing in disguise, figuring you'd end up with a tuned model..
but it seems like you'd still be wiser by using TS?
(which yes I've briefly tried TS, LU, and Maya, the interface is... odd)
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Good work for a first model mate.
Downloaded Blender last week and just hope that my first model looks as good as that. I think it might be a while though because I'm still trying to get my head around the interface.
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Looking over the Max plugin, what benefits are there to using it?
Obviously you don't have to use TS... but it seems that it's either
going to crash or cause much trial and error to figure out where you made a mistake?
Maybe that's a blessing in disguise, figuring you'd end up with a tuned model..
but it seems like you'd still be wiser by using TS?
(which yes I've briefly tried TS, LU, and Maya, the interface is... odd)
It aint as bad as you may think, in fact its really good. True, it will crash most of the time you screw up, but if you follow the rules posted on the wikki youll be fine... the only thing there I havent got the hang of yet is the engine glows, due to lack of info
And to give you an idea: 3 days ago I was completely noob on conversion\POF matters... that Max plugin made my life alot easier and Ive just converted my first model, smoothly, not a single crash ;)
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make sure to convert to editable poly instead of editable mesh, and keep draggin those verts and cutting when tou need to.
Slightly OT, but why is editable poly preferable to editable mesh ? Do you fin it easier to edit or is there a difference once exported to POF ?
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i just find its easier to work with
when i did mesh i screwed things up way too easily
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make sure to convert to editable poly instead of editable mesh, and keep draggin those verts and cutting when tou need to.
Slightly OT, but why is editable poly preferable to editable mesh ? Do you fin it easier to edit or is there a difference once exported to POF ?
In my experience it's a wee bit easier to work with, as I have a bunch of plugin/tool things that allow you to automagically spilt edges & join selected vertices.
It's been said that you really need to convert from poly, but I've never seen that need.
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Well I've been reading just about everything I can get my hands on...
So in response to myself, and hopefully to help the poor souls following
in my footsteps, here's some nice (written in plain English for newbs) tutorials.
http://www.oman3d.com/tutorials/3ds/
http://www.cgtutorials.com/c11/Modeling/newest/2
If you go through the polygon modeling tutorials in the second link, the series
content may go over your head at first... but with a little work it's fairly digestable.
A few things I'm still struggling with concept/know-how wise, is getting the model pieces
to warp or bend properly.... like say a bend in the hood of a car, or like sand dunes.
Between moving the vertexes and I would suppose the XYZ sliders, it's possible, but it
just doesn't seem very intuitive.
Some others - good ways to keep poly counts low and sub objects, detail boxing.
But I'll have to keep looking I guess.
Appearantly, you use poly modeling because of the other editing features and the reason
behind going from mesh to poly - was that early versions of Max would add junk or mis-interpret
parts of the model when converting straight over. I don't know any more on the subject though.
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It's been said that you really need to convert from poly, but I've never seen that need.
Ah good, I've seen the recommendation in the wiki to convert from poly, but I prefer editing in mesh mode.
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Ok question time yet again...
Is chamfering what the majority of those here are using to form the edges on their
models?
http://www.onnovanbraam.com/index.php?tutorials/pm-5-tech1/ (http://www.onnovanbraam.com/index.php?tutorials/pm-5-tech1/)
Example of what I'm referring to half-way down this page.
It seems to me that the process would increase your poly count and be
quite time consuming. Although it looks to be applicable to most situations in which
you need to define a shape.
I don't recall any other models at the moment, but Turambar's A-wing/Corvette
and even Brandx0's ISD (SWC WIP thread) don't appear to be using the same process
or it's very small and not visible via the pictures.
So is there a better way to be doing things? What terminology should I be searching for?
Edit - Just realized why it may appear that I'm asking silly questions.
None of my tutorials that are supposed to be built into Max, installed correctly,
so that's why I'm pretty much "in the dark."
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Now that I've been brought up in conversation, I'll be softening the edges in certain places, but only where neccesary. This kind of editing can double your polycount easily. I'll be doing it manually where it needs to be done, but on my ISD, given the greebles which are everywhere, probably only on the edges of the brim trenches, as the rest will be greebled enough to not see the sharp edges.
Oh yeah! and thanks for the recognition, glad to know there's not only 2 or 3 people watching (all of which are project staff)
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On the personal side of things, I'd like to eventually get up to the point where I can model these:
(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d1/GuardianZinv/Tachyon/Ships.png)
If you get the Gekko into FS2 then you'll pretty much win at modeling. :nod:
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That looks a bit like Jetstorm
(http://tfu.info/2000/Vehicon/UltraJetstorm/vehiclemode.jpg)
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Scooby -
A Jetstorm would be closer to a Robotech fighter craft.
The GekkoGo/Midnight is a big carrier/cruiser class ship with sub-orbital ability.
More pics of the nice ship:
http://www.dannychoo.com/blogimg/eureka_seven_679.jpg
http://pds.egloos.com/pds/1/200412/13/05/b0034105_21505273.jpg
http://www.animestocks.com/gallery.php/category/Eureka+Seven;Gekko+Go (Down for maintenance ATM)
redsniper -
I didn't know I was in a competition?
Some other things I'd like to see...
A transformable Nirvash spec 2
ZOE's Jehuty Orbital Frame
Swordfish II - Cowboy Bebop
Patrol Ship Basroil - Banner of the Stars II (there's a Homeworld mod with ships already, so it might just be the task of converting em)
Futune Command Ship - Crest/Banner of the Stars (")
Outlaw Star - Outlaw Star
Ryo-Ohki - Tenchi Muyo OVA
Ships made out of food.... like a flying plate of curry that fires blobs.
As you can tell I'm not going for anything to do with the series themselves, I just
like the ship designs or the capabilities. I think fun and function is more important than sticking to any
particular theme if you're going into a free for all type mission environment. Due to FS2's nice table system,
I think they could all be set to have an accurate feel, while still dealing out moderate damage for keeping
gameplay equal. It's all about give and take really...
Eh I've thought about "how" they can be achieved, and from what I've seen and discussed, it's possible. :D
I just have to catch up my skills to the level necessary to make them from scratch.
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No competition (unless you want to count life as a competition). I'm implying that you would win at all modeling everywhere, in short: it would be effing awesome. :D
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now make a HTL gekko full with cockpit tub and custom effects for unique weapons, and you'll get worshipped by the whole board.
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what was the point of that last post?
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(brandex, I have no clue)
I'll get there eventually.
Trying to figure out Max's modeling system is my main concern now.
Besides there are other projects ahead of this.
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why max? i've been trying to figure it out for 5 months now. try something else with .3ds exports and hiearchy like wings 3d.
http://www.wings3d.com/
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3DSMax seems appealing to most people because the original game models that were created by :v: were made in Max.
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That, and it has 100 times the tutorials of any other program.
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but its so hard to use, and operates like no other program!
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It isn't hard to use.
Besides, what program DOES operate like every other one?
It's just like everything else - it takes practice to learn it.
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i still see problems in 4-view programs. anyway, back to the topic of the GTCv cube
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HMS cube
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what does that stand for?
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Her Majesty's Ship - taken from the UK's Royal Navy.
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great idea! WE NEED A BRITISH NAVY MOD!
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i still see problems in 4-view programs. anyway, back to the topic of the GTCv cube
In the bottom right hand corner there is this little button:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v356/Shodan_AI/Extras/full.jpg)
This will switch you from 4 pane to single pane
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I went with HMS simply because "USS Cubes" just doesn't
quite have the same ring to it.
I'll probably revisit the poor thing; my brain thinks in detail -
the trouble is getting it to translate through a program.
I have a couple ideas on how to fix it, so I'll just have to see what pans
out over time.
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There are 2-3 models of the Swordfish out on the net, but AFAIK they are really low poly!
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Hmm as much as I've looked around, I didn't find any models, just requests
for models on the Swordfish.
This took about 2 hours or so last night, no texturing.
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d1/GuardianZinv/Tachyon/Gnat.jpg
What I can't figure out, is I can always get 3 steps into a tutorial and get stuck
due to something. But yet I can do abstract like that by playing around in Max, which still isn't
exactly what I wanted, but least it's the general idea...
Supposed to have long turrets on either side, sort of like an A-wing.
Probably call it a "Gnat."
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to be honest...
ITS UGLY
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...
first on the to show list, is a new terran-vasudan fighter. this time with more terran influence :). designation: none until POF'ed and tbl'ed.
(http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/8602/neatnewfighterpa5.png) (http://www.game-warden.com/narfin)
*coughs*
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Hmm as much as I've looked around, I didn't find any models, just requests
for models on the Swordfish.
This took about 2 hours or so last night, no texturing.
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d1/GuardianZinv/Tachyon/Gnat.jpg
What I can't figure out, is I can always get 3 steps into a tutorial and get stuck
due to something. But yet I can do abstract like that by playing around in Max, which still isn't
exactly what I wanted, but least it's the general idea...
Supposed to have long turrets on either side, sort of like an A-wing.
Probably call it a "Gnat."
Reminds me of that one airplane from Total Annialation
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to be honest...
ITS UGLY
TAKASHI!
WHAT is your malfunction!
I can't believe those words just came out of your mouth. That was not constructive at all, much like everything else you've said in this thread. I thought you had taken everyone's advice about cooling off the comments and phrasing your questions as questions instead of misleading statements of fact, but apparently that was only a temporary reprieve. I swear, you still have yet to prove yourself as a constructive member of this community, and the few people you had who were backing you up are undoubtedly lessening every time you say something like that. I'm all for not making a noob feel uncomfortable, and trying to mold a noob into a productive member of the community, but you act as if you just simply want to be harassed by people. That's the second person this week you've blatantly insulted on these forums. Stop insulting people, and speaking on behalf of the forum, and misleading people, and acting like you have experience in areas you don't, and maybe, just maybe, someday, you won't be the laughingstock of this forum. But if you keep this stuff up, the only possible response is laughter or deep sighs.