Hard Light Productions Forums
General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: DragonClaw on February 06, 2002, 09:28:00 pm
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Errh... I'm stupid if this is given, but heh.
I think that the Ancients are actually either humans or vasudans =)
When the shivans attacked and all, they wrote down stuff(or however they did it), and they built a subspace portal to stabalize a node to escape. Once they crossed the line, they shut down the portal and maybe made a crash landing on a planet. Then the civilization started again...
This is probably a stupid thing for me to post... =)
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We've all got ideas, and i don't think yours is stupid at all!
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Riiiight, like Planet of the Apes...
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"An evil mind is a constant comfort."
Revisit the Great War at The Freespace-Freespace 2 Port Project ("http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/fsport/")
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Reminds me of the Giants series by James Hogan. Not quite the same but vaguely similar.
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--Mik
http://www.404error.com
ruhkferret on ICQ/AIM
"Your guy was a little SQUARE! You had to use your IMAGINATION! There were no multiple levels or screens. There was just one screen forever and you could never win the game. It just kept getting harder and faster until you died. JUST LIKE LIFE." --Ernie Cline
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That could be true, but in that case they would probably be Vasudans, since the Ancients visited Vasuda Prime sometime when Vasudan civilization was just starting up. (the Vasudan mythical gods were probably Ancients (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/wink.gif)) Interesting idea though.
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I think the Ancients were the descendents of that guy in the glowing car from the end of Repo Man.
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it could be the ancients are the nightmare race in aldos recipriocity!!
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Originally posted by Red5:
it could be the ancients are the nightmare race in aldos recipriocity!!
er.. no. They wouldn't have lost to the Shivans so easily, then.
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Maybe they're just the Shadows. Older than any other race, they exist to create chaos.
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yea right, i just spoiled aldo's campaign to everyone, some ancients survived, they are the nightmare!!!
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But maybe there are no ancients at all...? Nah, stupid idea.
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In my campaign, Terrans and vasudans knows who the Ancient were, and, actually, it's no big deal.
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Maybe the Ancient archives were just put there by the Shivans so that when it was realised their shields didn't work, hostiles would attack the fake reactors allowing the Lucifer to jump to normal space, collapse the node behind itself and wipe out the pesky hostiles homeworld. :D
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Those are all good hypothesises. I think that the Shivans are an Ancients experiment gone totally wrong!
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Originally posted by adwight
Those are all good hypothesises. I think that the Shivans are an Ancients experiment gone totally wrong!
Kinda like the Replicators? :)
I like your theory, DC.
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Originally posted by adwight
Those are all good hypothesises. I think that the Shivans are an Ancients experiment gone totally wrong!
:snipe:
one little obvious thing proves that this can't be: when the ancients met with the shivan for the first time, it was, well, obviously the first time indeed (see the cutscene). If the ancients had created the shivans, they would have known about them, no?
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Not neccessarily. It could have been a classified experiment in the outer reaches of the galaxy and everyone with knowledge of it could have been destroyed when the Shivans got loose.
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Originally posted by an0n
Not neccessarily. It could have been a classified experiment in the outer reaches of the galaxy and everyone with knowledge of it could have been destroyed when the Shivans got loose.
mff... a experiment that goes wrong, even in the worse case, won't create millions of ships, and that's what came after the ancients.
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a experiment that goes wrong, even in the worse case, won't create millions of ships, and that's what came after the ancients.
[/b]
Unless it was one hell of a totally wrong experiment :)
Seriously though, I personally think the Ancients are/were just an average space-fairing race who like a bit of conquering.
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There now follows DG's two cents:
I reckon the Ancients were not much more advanced than the GTVA, and that the Shivans are/were far, far older than the Ancients. However, I do like the idea of the Ancients/some older race making a few of the buggers and then watching aghast as their creations built a huge fleet of ships and attacked their masters...
Sidenote: Nightmares 0wn j00!!!!!1 They're hard...
Sidenote II: HLP bosses, how 'bout a symbol for two cents. Just a thought.
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Originally posted by diamondgeezer
However, I do like the idea of the Ancients/some older race making a few of the buggers and then watching aghast as their creations built a huge fleet of ships and attacked their masters...
so, you do like the idea of them being stupid? ;)
Look, dudes, I've made big bad 5 legged ants! look! They're building thousands of juggernaughts! cool! each of of these ships is at least 10 times more powerful than our most powerful ship ! How proud am...ZAP!!!! :D
btw, big V stated that the ancient's tech is somewhere between FS1 and FS2 GTA tech level.
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Nah. The Ancients are just these guys, you know? They're just like Terrans and Vasudans. They didn't create the Shivans (who, of course, are naturally evolved, low-g creatures from an arboreal moon :D). They encountered the Shivans in the same way the Terrans and Vasudans did: they showed up out of the inkyblack in a fury and started killing.
I'd be willing to believe that some Ancients escaped and lost all knowledge of their own history and were the ancestors of Terrans or Vasudans. Well, not really, because that would be a direct rip off of a Larry Niven plot concept.
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Originally posted by diamondgeezer
Sidenote II: HLP bosses, how 'bout a symbol for two cents. Just a thought.
Good idea. I'm going to make one for 'OT' as well. :)
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Originally posted by mikhael
I'd be willing to believe that some Ancients escaped and lost all knowledge of their own history and were the ancestors of Terrans or Vasudans. Well, not really, because that would be a direct rip off of a Larry Niven plot concept.
Never heard about this guy. Any idea would be a direct reap off of somebody's plot nowadays. I bet you give me any idea, and after some searches, I'll found the same idea in another obscure book, movie or something.
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Originally posted by venom2506
Never heard about this guy. Any idea would be a direct reap off of somebody's plot nowadays. I bet you give me any idea, and after some searches, I'll found the same idea in another obscure book, movie or something.
Larry Niven isn't exactly obscure. The Known Space stories and books were the inspiration for such things as Kilrathi. The game 'Halo' uses a ring world as its setting. The Ringworld concept was created by Niven as a logical alternative to Dyson's spheres.
In this case, having the Ancients be the ancestors of humanity is a page taken directly from Niven's Known Space stories of the Pak. In fact, in 'Return to Ringworld', it is revealed that humanity is descended from immature Pak breeders who crash landed on Earth millennia past. They wiped out the Neandrethals and slowly evolved into modern humans.
You are correct about every idea having been done before. However, that is no excuse for a blatant rip of an old idea. Further, if you're going to use an old idea, at least try to find a fresh angle for it.
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Originally posted by mikhael
Larry Niven isn't exactly obscure. The Known Space stories and books were the inspiration for such things as Kilrathi. The game 'Halo' uses a ring world as its setting. The Ringworld concept was created by Niven as a logical alternative to Dyson's spheres.
In this case, having the Ancients be the ancestors of humanity is a page taken directly from Niven's Known Space stories of the Pak. In fact, in 'Return to Ringworld', it is revealed that humanity is descended from immature Pak breeders who crash landed on Earth millennia past. They wiped out the Neandrethals and slowly evolved into modern humans.
You are correct about every idea having been done before. However, that is no excuse for a blatant rip of an old idea. Further, if you're going to use an old idea, at least try to find a fresh angle for it.
I was saying this guy was an obscure reference. I just said that you could find about any existing idea in any book, and lots of obscure ones actually gather most of the best ideas. Anyway, your Niven invented nothing, I couldn't count the sci-fie ( old and new ) where terrans comes from an old space species, or were created/brought by that species :)
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Originally posted by venom2506
I was saying this guy was an obscure reference. I just said that you could find about any existing idea in any book, and lots of obscure ones actually gather most of the best ideas. Anyway, your Niven invented nothing, I couldn't count the sci-fie ( old and new ) where terrans comes from an old space species, or were created/brought by that species :)
Tsk. To nitpick, I should point out that Larry Niven is one of the grand old men of modern science fiction. Further, I'd also suggest that Niven DID invent at least two new things in his fiction: the concept of ringworlds and the concept of leadership by greatest cowardice. He may have also been the first to put forth the concept of ships engines as weapons, but I am not entirely sure of this. I am almost certain he was the first to describe life as evolved from non-baryonic matter, and he was certainly the first to conceptualize breeding for luck.
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btw, sorry, typo:
I meant "I wasn't saying" obviously :p
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Originally posted by mikhael
You are correct about every idea having been done before. However, that is no excuse for a blatant rip of an old idea. Further, if you're going to use an old idea, at least try to find a fresh angle for it.
As my 9th grade L.A. teacher said: It's just creative plagerism(sp?)
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Maybe shivans are Ancients, that stayed in space, and allowed them to evolute to something tottaly difrent, bcouse there was no gravity,fresh air ect. And with that evolution they brain get tottaly rotten, And they started to think: hmm , maybe we should all die. But how. I know lets attack other races until they kill us. Hmm what about we throw outself in sun. Whats sun??. I don't know i just heard rumors....:D :D :D :D
Probaby they are only stupid ancients with difrently evolved bodys.
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Well, this is the one that I'm pushing in my campaign (short, simplified version):
The Ancients are actually a long-dead race that came to Earth (to scout), and show their amazing powers to the early terrans, and, hence, God was born.
Then, once they tired of humanity's ways, they signaled their space-borne bretheren, and told them to unleash a bio-mechanically engineered race (the Shivans)
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The Ancients, while not all that advanced by FS2 standards, just happened to get "lucky" by not having any sentient species close to their homeworld.
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Either that or they were advanced and met the larger Shivan force that practically kicked our asses in Freespace 2. After all the Anchients said "Where we found life, we subdued it or crushed it".
After all...according to the cutscenes in Freespace, the Anchients were as confused when they met the Shivans as humans. And like Bosch said, what if there were countless races, each built on the ruins of the last, and each anihilated by the Shivans. Heck if they've been at this killing thing that long, no wonder they have 90 some Juggernaughts. :D
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Originally posted by mikhael
You are correct about every idea having been done before. However, that is no excuse for a blatant rip of an old idea. Further, if you're going to use an old idea, at least try to find a fresh angle for it.
No... if you're going to use an old idea, do it well. In game terms, that's exactly what Freespace did, and is what 90% of all games do.
Likewise, it easily possible to use concepts that other people thought up, completely by coincidence.
Personally, I have literally no knowledge of sci-fi (beyond Star Wars & films like aliens) whatsoever, so all my ideas are at the very least intended to be original.