Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Nuclear1 on March 25, 2007, 01:27:31 pm
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6484279.stm
Fifteen British navy personnel have been captured at gunpoint by Iranian forces, the Ministry of Defence says.
The men were seized at 1030 local time when they boarded a boat in the Gulf, off the coast of Iraq, which they suspected was smuggling cars.
The Royal Navy said the group was on a routine patrol in Iraqi waters and were understood to be unharmed.
But Iranian state television quoted the Iran foreign ministry as saying they had illegally entered Iranian waters.
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As a UK member, I want them home safe and sound. However, were they spying?
I wouldn't be surprised to be honest. It's kind of hard to say because we seized some Iranians in Iraq the other day, which kind of added weight to the whole 'Iran supporting the Insurgence' thing, so they might be levering for a bargaining chip by claiming they caught British spies.
I wish I could put more faith in my government, but recent behaviour makes me sceptical of everything these days.
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Allright!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6485529.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6485529.stm)
Oil prices jump "because of the incident", oh oil market how silly you are
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070323/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iran_nuclear (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070323/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iran_nuclear)
Ahmadinejad cancels his UN trip, and who know why because he's Ahmadinejad.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6489493.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6489493.stm)
Seized soldiers "taken to Teheran"
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article1563877.ece (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article1563877.ece)
Iran decides to play tough - try the soldiers for espionage!
Just what is happening? No one really knows so far. Current Internet hypothesises are divided: either UK troops were on a covert operation on Iranian waters or Iran is now harassing Coalition because they are relatively safe.
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I really don't care whether they crossed the border or not. At the end of the day they're being held by a hostile nation, and if we do in-fact know where they are - we should consider rescuing them.
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I really don't care whether they crossed the border or not. At the end of the day they're being held by a hostile nation, and if we do in-fact know where they are - we should consider rescuing them.
You do realize that if the Brits actually were on an illegitimate mission and then proceeded with another illegitimate mission to rescue their troops it would be a horrible diplomatic crisis? Of course Britain COULD do it, but it propably wouldn't be very wise.
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Why? We're talking about a nation with very little international credibility, and even less friends.
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I really don't care whether they crossed the border or not. At the end of the day they're being held by a hostile nation, and if we do in-fact know where they are - we should consider rescuing them.
Add to that a foreign nation is threatening British citizens with capital punishment.
Regardless of whether the UK is spying on Iran or not, it's not Iran's place to settle the matter all on its own. If the British were spying, then there should be some outcry against the UK; if Iran is just trying to flex its muscles and Ahmadinejad is just being a prick, then a certain Iranian President needs to go. He's not doing Iran any good by attempting to piss off both the US and the UK in rapid succession.
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Why? We're talking about a nation with very little international credibility, and even less friends.
Because if Britons were on Iranian waters Iran is technically right and clear in arresting them?
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I really don't care whether they crossed the border or not. At the end of the day they're being held by a hostile nation, and if we do in-fact know where they are - we should consider rescuing them.
Add to that a foreign nation is threatening British citizens with capital punishment.
That doesn't matter at all, especially IF A) they were on Iranian waters (give unto Caesar's what is Caesar's and so on) and B) the arrested brits were soldiers. If Iran has highjacked them from international waters or if they are civilians the issue is completely different.
Regardless of whether the UK is spying on Iran or not, it's not Iran's place to settle the matter all on its own. If the British were spying, then there should be some outcry against the UK; if Iran is just trying to flex its muscles and Ahmadinejad is just being a prick, then a certain Iranian President needs to go. He's not doing Iran any good by attempting to piss off both the US and the UK in rapid succession.
Why not?
edit: Forgot to add one thing which might be quite important. Ahmadinejad's positions is not very good right now. He is at odds with cleric council. However he is relatively popular amongst the voters. Add external threats to the mix and you have a recipe for happy parties or something.
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Iran wants to form a new Persian Empire. The countries around them don't like that idea, especially the Saudis. So no, they aren't making many friends.
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Why? We're talking about a nation with very little international credibility, and even less friends.
Because if Britons were on Iranian waters Iran is technically right and clear in arresting them?
There's "technically right" and "technically right and able to back it up". I don't think it's a good idea to start recognising fundamentalist religious regimes as equals on the international law stage.
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http://www.ft.com/cms/s/c2fac05c-dac2-11db-ba4d-000b5df10621.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6493391.stm
Apparently, Blair says they were taken from Iraqi waters, I've heard the area they were taken from is of disputed ownership.
And, it looks like this is not the first time...
21 June 2004: Iran seizes UK vessels and crew (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3826179.stm)
23 June 2004: UK sailors 'admit Iran incursion' (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3828377.stm)
24 June 2004: Iran releases British servicemen (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3835313.stm)
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Yeah. It's opportunism on the part of the Iranian President. I doubt anyone set out to capture British sailors, but they were close enough to, or maybe even in, Iranian waters and someone got over-eager to defend their borders. The problem is that if they try to use these guys (and girl) as a bartering chip, we set a precedent whereby our soldiers are no longer just in fear of being blown up by roadside bombs, they have to fear (more than before) being kidnapped too.
I can see why people believe diplomacy should be used here - but the longer we wait for the return of the prisoners, the higher the chance they are mistreated (and I don't need to point out that Iran has a poor record on human rights, especially towards women). It's dangerous enough to invoke military action (post-rescue things could be talked down) - but if our people are harmed it takes this to a whole new level. A level we aren't ready for yet.
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Sure we're ready... we just aren't willing, and rightly so. :drevil: If we were like the people we were fighting, we could launch a couple of MIRVS, and never have to worry about our enemies again. We just care about human life, that's all.
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Whoops
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6501555.stm
- UK government says merchant vessel boarded by crew from HMS Cornwall was 1.7 nautical miles inside Iraqi territorial waters
- HMS Cornwall was south-east of merchant ship, inside Iraqi waters
- Iranian government initially told UK that merchant vessel was at a point still within Iraqi waters
- After UK pointed this out, Iran provided alternative position, within Iranian waters
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So they tricked them into Iranian waters, and ambushed them.
Nice.
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Aw... Iran would never do something like that, they're nice folks...
Nonsense! We would never do that, we are nice people, not like your DEVI- um, President.
By the way, I have a bridge to sell you...
The Holocaust didn't really happen...
Lastly, have you tried my excellent fireworks? Perfect for celebrating SATA- err, American Independence Day. You must try, they are half off for only two more days!!
:lol:
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So they tricked them into Iranian waters, and ambushed them.
Nice.
Wow.
Is Iran trying to start an international incident?
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Let me rephrase that.
Is Iran (seriously) trying to start an international incident?
Do they have THE BOMB yet?
Your answer for both questions will prolly be the same, yes or no. :shaking:
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So they tricked them into Iranian waters, and ambushed them.
Nice.
No, because the merchant vessel was still anchored on Iraqi waters this morning, so someone is lying bigtime, and it propably is Iranians, and I have no idea why they are doing it
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Well, for them this is probably a good way to distract the foreign media from the nuke developent program. Perhaps they want sanctions and penalties against them for other reasons, so the focus can change to other, smaller matters. Plus, once they get penalized for other stuff, they cant be criticized for going ahead with nukes despite the fact that theyre being penalized because they would already be penalized anyways.
Not prepeared to defend that, just throwing that out there. :)
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/6528235.stm
We just got blind-sided. :wtf:
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/6528235.stm
We just got blind-sided. :wtf:
So wait a second... Ahmadinejad steals British sailors from Iraqi waters on their ship, holds them while threatening to execute them, and then "gives them back" as an "Easter present"? What the flying ****?
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Radical Arabic logic. ::)