Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Dark Hunter on April 09, 2007, 01:32:19 am
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But I know next to nothing about computer hardware. Because I know people here are very knowledgeable about such things, and I want to make sure I'm getting a decent system, I'd thought I'd ask some opinions.
Basically, what would a good processor and graphics card be? I'm talking about something that would come on a PC in the $1000-$1200 range.
Also, many PC's are now coming with Vista rather than XP. I know that FSO has been having issues due to the OpenGL drivers, and I'm not quite sure my other games will run properly on Vista. So: how would I go about loading XP onto a new machine, and how would I go about dual-booting it or selecting XP rather than Vista on start-up?
Thanks in advance for any help. :)
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These would be my recommendations, assuming you live in the US:
CPU: E6300 ($180 on Newgg)
Mobo: Asus P5B Deluxe ($180 on Newegg)
Memory: 2GB OCZ Platinum rev 2.0 DDR2-800 ($145 AR on Newegg, not sure how well this stuff overclocks but the stock speeds are very good for the price)
Video card: Leadtek 8800GTS 640MB ($335 AR on Newegg)
PSU: Enhance ENP-5150GH ($70 on ewiz)
Monitor: NEC 90GX2 ($170 AR on Directron; you need to be a bit quick on this, as they will be phased out soon and are going out of stock rapidly)
That still leaves about $120 for a case, hard drives or anything else you need. I'm assuming you are migrating some of these things from your existing setup. Another option worth considering is to get a 320MB 8800GTS ($260 AR for an EVGA model on Newegg), which will free up enough money for the Acer AL2051W display ($250 on Newegg). The AL2051W seems to be well worth the additional cost, but the 320MB GTS is also substantially slower than the 640MB version and may struggle at that monitor's resolution.
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Regarding XP and Vista dual-booting:
When I set up my system, I installed XP first because I wasn't sure how it would cope with Vista's bootloader. Also, Vista has the same setup 'requirements' as other versions of Windows; namely, it has to install files to the first partition on the first hard disk AS WELL AS the partition you actually install Windows itself to. This is a really retarded way to operate, but Microsoft don't exist to make it easy to install multiple, independant OSes.
So your XP partition will likely have some Vista files on it. This is unavoidable. Just don't go deleting them by accident :p.
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These would be my recommendations, assuming you live in the US:
CPU: E6300 ($180 on Newgg)
Mobo: Asus P5B Deluxe ($180 on Newegg)
Memory: 2GB OCZ Platinum rev 2.0 DDR2-800 ($145 AR on Newegg, not sure how well this stuff overclocks but the stock speeds are very good for the price)
Video card: Leadtek 8800GTS 640MB ($335 AR on Newegg)
PSU: Enhance ENP-5150GH ($70 on ewiz)
Monitor: NEC 90GX2 ($170 AR on Directron; you need to be a bit quick on this, as they will be phased out soon and are going out of stock rapidly)
That still leaves about $120 for a case, hard drives or anything else you need. I'm assuming you are migrating some of these things from your existing setup. Another option worth considering is to get a 320MB 8800GTS ($260 AR for an EVGA model on Newegg), which will free up enough money for the Acer AL2051W display ($250 on Newegg). The AL2051W seems to be well worth the additional cost, but the 320MB GTS is also substantially slower than the 640MB version and may struggle at that monitor's resolution.
An excellent setup but if there was a need to reduce the price and there was about 4 weeks to wait...a GeForce 8600 GTS or GT would come in more than $100 cheaper and would still give very decent performance.
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There were some leaked benchmarks of those cards recently, and although their accuracy is questionable, they suggested that the 8600s may actually be slower than some of the previous gen cards (this has happened before). It may be a better idea to get one of the older X1950s if that is indeed the case.
In any case, it's always worth paying some money for the video card and monitor. If he needs to reduce the price by about $100, the motherboard and processor can certainly be skimped on with a fairly minimal performance penalty (to a $110 Gigabyte DS3 and a $166 E4300).
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Yeah...I saw those too. I'm keeping an eye on that although since proper reviews haven't been done with "finished" drivers and silicon I'm not holding my breath just yet. A X1950 Pro is actually quite a good deal at the moment too. So is the 7900GS and some of the 7950GT's in some places.
I was going to build a computer a couple of weeks ago but I'm holding off again. I just bought a camera anyways but I've been watching the whole hardware area very intently in the last few months. Its a bit of a mix up right now and not nearly as solid as when I was buying before. AMD has taken a big hit with Intel bringing out the Core 2...prices have dropped by nearly half on some of the Athlon's. They are a great deal actually...they can't hold up very well to the new Core 2's on anything except for power consumption at idle but they are a great deal. Still waiting to see what the next gen brings us...thats supposed to be soon as well.
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Yep. It should be worth waiting what comes of AMD Barcelona and Agena as well as R600. But then again, AMD/ATI announced they will have R700 ready Q1 2008, probably about same time as G90.
R700/G90 should be especially interesting as it seems both will abandon the concept of one huge GPU/VPU die and instead go with multiple smaller GPU/VPU dies, akin to current multi-core CPU's. Should be interesting to see how well the new multi-GPU/VPU architecture scales and how much it affects power consumption.
There's always some cool parts coming out soonish. :D
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invest in a god PSU it saves your PC ;)
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Although one must pray to the PSU gods every time you turn on a computer...I believe Ashrak means that you should get a good PSU (power supply unit) and I agree completely. Don't skimp on the power because its "just a power supply". My recommendation is Antec...no doubt some other forum members will suggest some other possibilities as well. Antec's are well respected and some of the newest models are highly efficient and well protected from surges and shocks. Nothing is perfect and eventually they all die but Antec's are good. There's a pretty big difference between an el cheapo 430W PSU and something on the level of the Antec 430W PSU.
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Yes, it's important to have a good quality PSU, but at the same time, the power requirements you read about everywhere are often heavily exaggerated. As long as you have a good quality one from a reputable brand, it doesn't need to be something that puts out a ton of power.
Most of the Antec lines are fairly mediocre these days, by the way. Certainly not what they once used to be. The Enhance and Corsair units are still the best choices in most price ranges (as long as you get them from the right places).
I think we scared away the OP or something. :D
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Whats the latest word on the 8600s? I had heard they were suppose to come out on my birthday (17th) but then I heard they got delayed.
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On the topic of PSUs, doesn't BFG (http://www.bfgtech.com) make one? If it's like their graphics cards, they should be good... I dunno, haven't checked the price, though...
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chieftec makes excellent PSU's and chassis
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I'm a little stumped when it comes to Intel quad-core CPUs, recently I read this article about EVGA's motherboards being physically changed so that any quad-core processor on them benefits from improved overclocking.
One motherboard that's caught my interest is the Gigabyte GA-N680SLI-DQ6, but I'm worried that if, for example, I were to get this board and take the quad core processor, I might end up not receiving the benefits of the quad-core revision. (I read up about the ASUS Striker Extreme - apparently you have to go around soldering a resistor and stuff, which is something I don't want to do.)
Just a thought, since I haven't found any articles about the Gigabyte board that's related to the quad-core changes.
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Why on earth would you buy an Intel Core 2 Quad CPU? Q6600 (the only Q-series released so far AFAIK) alone costs more than half of a decent PC. If you want quad-core, wait until both AMD and Intel has released their next generation CPU's, which should happen during Q3. Hopefully the first models have affordable quad-cores in them.
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Well I did say "for example". I am well aware of the price hike from dual to quad. (Which is well over one thousand here, T_T)
And now there's all these issues about driver problems involving Nvidia graphic cards...
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... Not to mention ATI
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I'm a little stumped when it comes to Intel quad-core CPUs, recently I read this article about EVGA's motherboards being physically changed so that any quad-core processor on them benefits from improved overclocking.
One motherboard that's caught my interest is the Gigabyte GA-N680SLI-DQ6, but I'm worried that if, for example, I were to get this board and take the quad core processor, I might end up not receiving the benefits of the quad-core revision. (I read up about the ASUS Striker Extreme - apparently you have to go around soldering a resistor and stuff, which is something I don't want to do.)
Just a thought, since I haven't found any articles about the Gigabyte board that's related to the quad-core changes.
I haven't kept up with quad core overclocking, but the DQ6 is otherwise similar to the DS3 despite costing about twice as much. They both support the quad cores. As for the Striker, the less said the better. :p That board is outperformed by some that are a third of its ridiculous price. The best dual core overclocking boards are the ICFX3200 (with a new NB cooler), P5B Deluxe and DS3, but I don't know how well they do with quad cores.
In any case, quad cores will remain basically useless for quite some time except in a few specialized programs (mainly 3D rendering apps, and even those don't take full advantage of them). Dual cores came out two years ago and we're only now starting to see any significant benefits from them in games.
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Well... I certainly got more than I bargained for on this thread. ;)
I wasn't really thinking about building my own PC (I'm way too lazy), just wanted to know which processors and graphics cards were decent nowadays.
Anyways, thanks for the replies... I think I got the help I was looking for and then some. :yes:
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Well... I certainly got more than I bargained for on this thread. ;)
I wasn't really thinking about building my own PC (I'm way too lazy), just wanted to know which processors and graphics cards were decent nowadays.
Anyways, thanks for the replies... I think I got the help I was looking for and then some. :yes:
I think you'll have to expect in a thread asking about components that folks who tend to build the computers will be the ones answering questions :)
Hope we didn't throw too too much at you! :D
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Building your own comp is pretty easy... try it sometime. After you get it fired up, it feels pretty good. :)
EDIT: If you're not comfortable with that then I don't blame you; try buying the cheapest components you can get (DDR2 RAM is cheaper than the older kinds; so get a mobo / processor that supports it) and make a secondary computer just to play around with and figure out how things work. If you break it, you'll learn a lot fixing it, and you'll still have your primary comp running. Thus, you can test things on the cheaper comp, and if they work good for a few days, implement them on your main comp. ;) No better way to learn about computers than by breaking a few of them. :lol: (true, though)
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:lol:
Yeah, the first PC I built, I almost fried the motherboard because I screwed it directly to the case, (not using the insulating washers supplied ::) ). You certainly learn from your mistakes. Luckily the motherboard didn't fry, but the computer refused to boot, it was extremely frustrating as I couldn't see what I had done wrong. I even took the motherboard back to the store insiting that it was faulty, they tested it and said nothing was wrong with it. I reassembled the computer, still no luck. I ended up giving in and taking the computer to a local repair shop. they took the side off and instantly saw the problem. Thnakfully they didn't charge me anything as once it was pointed out I could do the repair myself. :yes:
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Similar experience myself Wobble. Fortunately I was a coop student working in a computer store and they set me straight right away :)
I also once fried a Pentium 133 by clocking it incorrectly using motherboard jumpers. Fortunately it was old and in a spare parts bin.
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I've killed three computers in my lifetime so far. The last one was only a few months ago, which is why I don't come here that often now. Money-wise, I'm not well-off I admit, but I am getting help. My reasoning, I have to build a new computer before I start losing all my hard disk data. (That reminds me, IDE and SATA don't mix, and I've never worked with enclosures before... :shaking:)
Thinking about it now, quad-core and Striker Extreme are definitely out - the Striker costs slightly more here than the 680i DQ6, and I don't need their ROG paraphernalia. I looked up the P5N-32E SLI, the Commando, the Striker and I already have my mind set on the N680i-DQ6, but I'm open to suggestions if it's really not worth spending over $500 on it. (Obviously these are SLI boards except for the Commando, and though I definitely cannot afford two 8800's in one go, I'll probably save up for the second one in the future... that reminds me - is MSI's 8800GTX worth it? Cheapest one I could find under $1,000. Unless it's better to get one from XFX/Gigabyte/Asus for safety's sake... (http://209.85.12.236/5024/118/emo/bangwall.gif))
Plus I admit, if there's a few things I'm really unsure of, it's actually installing the processor (and the cooler/heatsink paste), aftermarket cooling of any kind (board, processor etc - never worked with them before), SATA (same, I come from the IDE era), setting voltages and clock speed (trial and error), and finally the PSU.
I suspect one of my boards (a P3 Celeron) blew up because I plugged in a PSU that was too powerful for it or something... but like I said, I don't know. :( I just remember turning on the power before hearing a loud pop/bang - instant death, so now I'd rather read up as much as I can first before buying anything (which I've been doing whenever I get a chance to use a computer). I am that worried... especially my data. I don't wanna lose it... hopefully I didn't kill my three IDE HDDs by accident when the said Celeron board went bang... :(
Should I run a 650W or an 800W power supply? :doubt: And I'll definitely choose Win XP... my mind's set on it and Vista just seems too risky for me. :doubt:
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Woa asyikarea51 man :)
Most of those parts are premium really expensive stuff. If you're not that well off then maybe you should look at some of the more practical components. I mean a GeForce 8880GTX is the fastest on the block for at least a few more weeks but the performance benefit really doesn't weigh in the cost unless you absolutely must have the fastest card on the planet (till the R600 or the 88000 Ultra comes out). The 8800GTS is a better buy. Heck, unless you have a big widescreen monitor the 8800GTS with 320mb is a better deal (and clocked slightly faster at factory settings).
Secondly...about your PSU frying a board...no that doesn't work like that. A PSU is rated to a certain wattage of total power but it puts that power out in different rails (3.3V, 5V, and 12V). Furthermore, if the components are working properly then it doesn't matter if its a 1000W PSU or a 300W PSU...the board will not fry. It sounds like the voltage regulator died and thats what caused the surge. Not good news for anything connected to it...but you might be lucky.
I do absolutely recommend reading and seeing if other people have the same combination of parts. Spend allot of time and research things up as much as possible. Keep punching part numbers into your search engine of choice until you have a solid idea of what you need to get to put together a good solid rig.
650W is allot of power...I was going to be very happy with a new rig running with a 500W PSU. But I guess if its dual 8000GTX and thats what you want to do...then the 800W will probably be a necessity. Again, do some reading and see if this is what various review sites were doing. See what their recommendations were...and never trust one. Get three or four.
I'd also, in that case, make sure you have a good case to put these things in. A proper case with good airflow and acoustic design considerations will be key to making it a good system.
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There's an Ultra variant of the 8800 coming out? In that case, I should hold back for now. Maybe use an 8800GTS as a temporary measure. (Yes, like I said, I'm not too well off, but somehow I'm getting help - pretty complicated scenario I'd rather not explain.)
The 370W PSU that fried my P3 Celeron board (which is my backup computer)... after it killed that board, I tried going back to my main computer (an MSI KT4AV if that matters :)) but it didn't work just the same.
My main computer failed after the RAM slots caught fire thanks to a bad GF6800 plugged in to that same 370W. Not enough power and too many components plugged in, I suspect. :( And I think it's true, because my USB external hard disk started giving errors and my Sony DRU-810A simply stopped working right.
Or maybe the backup board blew up because the power was put out in different rails or something? It's a very old P3 after all... :nervous:
Yeah, so you can see why everything's giving me a headache... but my main worry is my data. There's enough data in there up to the point where I can't defrag any of the drives... around 200GB worth. :(
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I think you should probably blame a very shoddy PSU rather than a video card...a video card will not light your RAM on fire :)
As long as the plug fits, the PSU and motherboard will be able to cope with the power (they will not confuse the rails unless the plugs were forced on in some horror show style thing), so it sounds like a defective motherboard, PSU, or both.
Not sure what you mean about the data. You say there's enough data that you can't defrag the drives? That really shouldn't matter...unless you've completely filled the whole drive. Even then...a defrag should still work...in theory.
And yes there is a GeForce 8800Ultra coming out about the same time that ATI/AMD's Radeon HD 2900 comes out. The HD 2900 is supposed to best the 8800 GTX by a fair margin. Not sure how much closer the Ultra brings to the new ATI offering.
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I'm willing to say it's the video card, because the whole computer went after I plugged the (now-dead) 6800 in and pressed the power button. But again, you might be right about the problem being the PSU though. 370W just doesn't cut it. (Horror-show style... LOL :lol:)
I remember :lol:, I first plugged the video card in a year or two ago, boot up, play Doom 3, within 15 minutes, BANG. Computer didn't work until I disconnected the card completely. Bring it back to the shop, get a replacement, repeat, BANG.
Fast-forward to present day --- connect the card, turn on the power, look! Sparks are flying on RAM slots 2 and 3... (ok now that's just bad :lol: (http://209.85.12.236/5024/118/emo/bangwall.gif))
On the issue of my data/files/etc, well if I were to view my percentage of free space from Windows Defragmenter, all the drives would show 1% available free space or less. Yes I can still defrag, but I gained very little performance-wise, it's better to say I gained nothing. (I'm aware of the crap that we all get when we have internet connections though.) Tons of old files from years ago as well as recent but hard-to-obtain ones, not to mention countless CS skins and an old RA2YR mod, among other archived things. And let's not forget FreeSpace too ;)
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:wtf:
Wow asyikarea51, just wow. I've been working at tech support past 6 years or so and I am totally speechless. You should sell your story to Hollywood. :lol:
Either your power supply or motherboard was faulty, or you had attached your motherboard into the case without using insulators that come with either motherboard or case or both.
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I've killed three computers in my lifetime so far. The last one was only a few months ago, which is why I don't come here that often now. Money-wise, I'm not well-off I admit, but I am getting help. My reasoning, I have to build a new computer before I start losing all my hard disk data. (That reminds me, IDE and SATA don't mix, and I've never worked with enclosures before... :shaking:)
Thinking about it now, quad-core and Striker Extreme are definitely out - the Striker costs slightly more here than the 680i DQ6, and I don't need their ROG paraphernalia. I looked up the P5N-32E SLI, the Commando, the Striker and I already have my mind set on the N680i-DQ6, but I'm open to suggestions if it's really not worth spending over $500 on it. (Obviously these are SLI boards except for the Commando, and though I definitely cannot afford two 8800's in one go, I'll probably save up for the second one in the future... that reminds me - is MSI's 8800GTX worth it? Cheapest one I could find under $1,000. Unless it's better to get one from XFX/Gigabyte/Asus for safety's sake... (http://209.85.12.236/5024/118/emo/bangwall.gif))
Plus I admit, if there's a few things I'm really unsure of, it's actually installing the processor (and the cooler/heatsink paste), aftermarket cooling of any kind (board, processor etc - never worked with them before), SATA (same, I come from the IDE era), setting voltages and clock speed (trial and error), and finally the PSU.
I suspect one of my boards (a P3 Celeron) blew up because I plugged in a PSU that was too powerful for it or something... but like I said, I don't know. :( I just remember turning on the power before hearing a loud pop/bang - instant death, so now I'd rather read up as much as I can first before buying anything (which I've been doing whenever I get a chance to use a computer). I am that worried... especially my data. I don't wanna lose it... hopefully I didn't kill my three IDE HDDs by accident when the said Celeron board went bang... :(
Should I run a 650W or an 800W power supply? :doubt: And I'll definitely choose Win XP... my mind's set on it and Vista just seems too risky for me. :doubt:
A good 650W one will run two 8800GTXs comfortably, unless you also have a ton of hard drives. Note that any PSU that could handle X1900/1950 Crossfire will also work with two 8800GTXs, which use less power on load. The Corsair 620W or the PCP&C 610W should be good choices.
Where do you live, by the way? I'm guessing the prices you quoted aren't in US dollars, or they would be insanely high.
As for the 8800 Ultra, the initial reports are saying that this card will be priced at $1000 (USD), so it sounds like another 7800GTX 512 style, limited production/vaporware card. Either that or it's a GX2 type SLI card.
SLI has traditionally never been a good option as an upgrade path due to the pace of change in the video card market. Unless you're planning to buy the other card pretty soon, maybe in another month or so, don't base your upgrade plans around it. Although I would personally advise staying away from SLI altogether. Nvidia still hasn't fixed some serious and well known bugs in SLI that have been around since its release three years ago, and the 8800 series in SLI has a host of problems of its own.
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The 8800 Ultra won't be a GX2 SLI frankenstine like thing because apparently one of those is on the way as well :)
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The 8800 Ultra won't be a GX2 SLI frankenstine like thing because apparently one of those is on the way as well :)
Oooohhhh godie then I can replace my 7950GX2 Bastard card with a new one from the 8000-series :p
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:wtf:
Wow asyikarea51, just wow. I've been working at tech support past 6 years or so and I am totally speechless. You should sell your story to Hollywood. :lol:
That sounds mean... :( (but why am I laughing... :wtf: ahh heck. :lol:)
Anyways I'll keep checking the thread whenever I can come online. Hopefully I can start the build by next week, unless I get interrupted with my new term in a new school (which is tomorrow).
In case it matters, I'm staying with air cooling - sticking with what I know. I haven't changed my mind other than the video card - a lower-end GTS might do just fine until news of the Ultra comes out. Unless my class instructor can suggest to me a much cheaper alternative system...
unless you also have a ton of hard drives.
I'm thinking of running two 500GB drives and one 10k 150GB drive. The price jump from 500 to 750 is too high - around $200, maybe more, so twin 750s are out of the question. I might have to buy an enclosure in order to transfer data from my old IDE ones though... I just hope I didn't lose any data.
Alternatively I can buy one internal drive for the build, then when more money comes later, buy two more internals together with enclosures so I can run them externally.
Before I forget, as at the time of typing, the current exchange rate is about 66 US cents to one dollar where I am.
SLI has traditionally never been a good option as an upgrade path due to the pace of change in the video card market. Unless you're planning to buy the other card pretty soon, maybe in another month or so, don't base your upgrade plans around it. Although I would personally advise staying away from SLI altogether. Nvidia still hasn't fixed some serious and well known bugs in SLI that have been around since its release three years ago, and the 8800 series in SLI has a host of problems of its own.
Taken note and have to admit, I agree. But I still have my mind on that DQ6, even though the Commando is somewhat cheaper... :( (Yes, I'm not going for quad-core, but the part about soldering stuff just to get better performance from the C2D/C2X bothers me.)
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I'm thinking of running two 500GB drives and one 10k 150GB drive. The price jump from 500 to 750 is too high - around $200, maybe more, so twin 750s are out of the question. I might have to buy an enclosure in order to transfer data from my old IDE ones though... I just hope I didn't lose any data.
Yeah, three will be fine. It would only become an issue if you had more than five or six of them.
Taken note and have to admit, I agree. But I still have my mind on that DQ6, even though the Commando is somewhat cheaper... :( (Yes, I'm not going for quad-core, but the part about soldering stuff just to get better performance from the C2D/C2X bothers me.)
:confused: If you're considering non-SLI boards, you don't need to solder anything. The three boards I mentioned earlier will overclock at least as well as either of those (without any mods, apart from the ICFX3200's heatsink) and cost less money.
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:confused: If you're considering non-SLI boards, you don't need to solder anything. The three boards I mentioned earlier will overclock at least as well as either of those (without any mods, apart from the ICFX3200's heatsink) and cost less money.
The soldering issue is more for Quad-core users, both SLI and non-SLI, I... think. I read up from somewhere that you have to unsolder a certain resistor (and solder a 500-[forgot the unit] variable resistor in its place, in order to get better overclocking from those processors.)
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If you have not already purchased....
Processor: Intel Core 2 Duo E6400 Retail ($210)
Motherboard: MSI P6N SLI-FI ($120)
Memory: Transcend (ValueRAM) 2GB DDR2 800 (2 x 1GB, dual-channel)
Graphics: EVGA GeForce 8800GTS ($300) or 8600GT ($180)
Hard Drive: (Choose your madness; I'd go with a Western Digital WD1600AAJS; some of the fastest write speeds for 7.2k rpm drives)
Power Supply: AMS Mercury EPS12V 460-watt Power Supply ($56)
Case: (Choose your madness; I'd go with an XClio A380 Full-tower ATX case ($100), though the Windtunnel is awesome as well. Spend no more than $130 on a case)
Optical Drive: Sony/NEC Optiarc DVD Burner with LightScribe on SATA, black ($32)
Other Drive: Sony Black 3.5" Floppy Drive ($8) (For flashing BIOS and possibly installing some drivers)
Other necessary stuff: Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Compound, OEM ($6)
Operating System: Windows Vista Home Premium 32-bit OEM ($112), SATA Cable ($5)
Part subtotal: $986
Shipping (appx): $38
Total: $1025
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(http://209.85.12.236/5024/118/emo/bangwall.gif)
I just made my purchase this morning. I'll provide details on it later (in class now, on break XD).
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If a disk is too full (above 90%, IIRC) Windows defrag won't do much. This is because it uses a particularly bad algorithm.
There are better defrag apps available that will defrag a drive as long as there's more than one free cluster on it.
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(http://209.85.12.236/5024/118/emo/bangwall.gif)
I just made my purchase this morning. I'll provide details on it later (in class now, on break XD).
You can cancel the order if its from some etailers... what did you purchase? (sorry I was too late)
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Some of your recommendations aren't very good in any case, to be honest. :p That board isn't too great unless you must have SLI support - the DS3 overclocks much better for a similar price - and the 8600 line has pretty much flopped, being soundly beaten in most games by previous gen cards in the same price brackets. Their prices will certainly fall over the next few months, but right now they're not worth buying.
The soldering issue is more for Quad-core users, both SLI and non-SLI, I... think. I read up from somewhere that you have to unsolder a certain resistor (and solder a 500-[forgot the unit] variable resistor in its place, in order to get better overclocking from those processors.)
This sort of thing would be specific to some particular board. I highly doubt you can use the same procedure on all of them, especially ones with different chipsets.
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Some of your recommendations aren't very good in any case, to be honest. :p That board isn't too great unless you must have SLI support - the DS3 overclocks much better for a similar price - and the 8600 line has pretty much flopped, being soundly beaten in most games by previous gen cards in the same price brackets. Their prices will certainly fall over the next few months, but right now they're not worth buying.
The soldering issue is more for Quad-core users, both SLI and non-SLI, I... think. I read up from somewhere that you have to unsolder a certain resistor (and solder a 500-[forgot the unit] variable resistor in its place, in order to get better overclocking from those processors.)
This sort of thing would be specific to some particular board. I highly doubt you can use the same procedure on all of them, especially ones with different chipsets.
nForce 650i motherboards don't overclock quite as well as P965; generally they get up to about FSB1800; where they max out. I said either 8800GTS or 8600GT; they really cut back too far on the specs on both of those. The 8600GTS ought to have had 64 stream processors, 256bit of either 256mb or 512mb memory. The GT ought to have had 48 stream processors, 256bit of 256mb memory. Also, the 8500GT ought to have had 32 or 48 stream processors and 128bit of 256mb memory. They cut back all the specs by about half; the GTS and GT have 32 stream processors and 128bit of 256mb memory, the 8500gt has 16 stream processors. Just to think... I was looking forward to a major upgrade over my FX5200.
Anyways; I was going cheap for DX10 support and possible future SLI. Thats more the path I plan to take, though I want to go with an 8800gts 320 instead.
Basically you're yelling at me for recommending an SLI board and DX10 graphics cards even when I at least gave a different card as well for DX10. :doubt:
I won't revise my recommendation for three reasons:
1) He already made a purchase.
2) It was great for at least DX10 support and possible SLI.
3) The RAM I recommended won't go much beyond 800mhz (400mhz FSB; aka FSB1600) when the chipset can go a bit beyond that (450mhz FSB; aka FSB1800)
**I haven't seen a good review for the P6N SLI FI yet; most companies try to sling the higher-priced boards over the lower-priced boards. Looking back now I'd probably say Asus P5N-E SLI.**
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and the 8600 line has pretty much flopped,
Agreed, and quite a disappointment. I should just probably wait for R660 or nv 9000 series.
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The 8300's probably won't be that bad for the price; 16 stream processors for not-very-much.
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nForce 650i motherboards don't overclock quite as well as P965; generally they get up to about FSB1800; where they max out. I said either 8800GTS or 8600GT; they really cut back too far on the specs on both of those. The 8600GTS ought to have had 64 stream processors, 256bit of either 256mb or 512mb memory. The GT ought to have had 48 stream processors, 256bit of 256mb memory. Also, the 8500GT ought to have had 32 or 48 stream processors and 128bit of 256mb memory. They cut back all the specs by about half; the GTS and GT have 32 stream processors and 128bit of 256mb memory, the 8500gt has 16 stream processors. Just to think... I was looking forward to a major upgrade over my FX5200.
Anyways; I was going cheap for DX10 support and possible future SLI. Thats more the path I plan to take, though I want to go with an 8800gts 320 instead.
Basically you're yelling at me for recommending an SLI board and DX10 graphics cards even when I at least gave a different card as well for DX10. :doubt:
You're getting overly defensive. You seemed to be suggesting that he cancel his order in favor of the stuff you listed, so I simply wanted to indicate that it wouldn't be worth going through all that.
Besides, there is no point in buying something just for DX10 support when there won't be any DX10 games around for several months. Although the 320MB 8800GTS is a much better choice, at least as long as you don't go beyond the 12x9/12x10 resolution. As for SLI, as I mentioned earlier, it's only worth considering for the top end GTX cards.
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nForce 650i motherboards don't overclock quite as well as P965; generally they get up to about FSB1800; where they max out. I said either 8800GTS or 8600GT; they really cut back too far on the specs on both of those. The 8600GTS ought to have had 64 stream processors, 256bit of either 256mb or 512mb memory. The GT ought to have had 48 stream processors, 256bit of 256mb memory. Also, the 8500GT ought to have had 32 or 48 stream processors and 128bit of 256mb memory. They cut back all the specs by about half; the GTS and GT have 32 stream processors and 128bit of 256mb memory, the 8500gt has 16 stream processors. Just to think... I was looking forward to a major upgrade over my FX5200.
Anyways; I was going cheap for DX10 support and possible future SLI. Thats more the path I plan to take, though I want to go with an 8800gts 320 instead.
Basically you're yelling at me for recommending an SLI board and DX10 graphics cards even when I at least gave a different card as well for DX10. :doubt:
You're getting overly defensive. You seemed to be suggesting that he cancel his order in favor of the stuff you listed, so I simply wanted to indicate that it wouldn't be worth going through all that.
Besides, there is no point in buying something just for DX10 support when there won't be any DX10 games around for several months. Although the 320MB 8800GTS is a much better choice, at least as long as you don't go beyond the 12x9/12x10 resolution. As for SLI, as I mentioned earlier, it's only worth considering for the top end GTX cards.
I'm saying that if he really thinks his order was not quite as good, he might want to do that. A P965 board (Gigabyte P965-S3) would be about the same except has better overclocking. Buying for DX10 support actually is a good idea; though true it will be several months for DX10 to come around, you don't want to buy a DX9 card right now and end up throwing it away or selling it at a loss. If you do the EVGA Step-Up, you could probably keep a DX9 card (maybe the GeForce 7900GS, $155) until the better 8800/8900's come out. More power for less price, though many people were disappointed because they were waiting for R600 to push down prices on the high-end cards; they bought, wanting to step-up, though it was over 3 months between purchase and the yet-to-be-released R600.
If he wanted to cancel, he could. I was taking an indication by the: (http://209.85.12.236/5024/118/emo/bangwall.gif)
I just made my purchase this morning. I'll provide details on it later (in class now, on break XD).
Asyikarea seemed to be a little less-than-satisfied of his own order after my recommendation.
I would still like to hear about how it went, Asyikarea.
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Buying for DX10 support actually is a good idea; though true it will be several months for DX10 to come around, you don't want to buy a DX9 card right now and end up throwing it away or selling it at a loss. If you do the EVGA Step-Up, you could probably keep a DX9 card (maybe the GeForce 7900GS, $155) until the better 8800/8900's come out.
Well, it has never been a good idea to give much weight to future performance when buying video cards. The trend with the last few DX versions has been that games start making use of it a year after the cards that initially support it are released, and actually start requiring it another year later. In other words, there is a lag of one or two generations. In the case of the 8600s, if you end up in a situation where you got a DX9 card and have to sell it, you would have to do the same with the DX10 one simply because of the poor performance.
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Sigh, it certainly is a mish-mash I admit. Far better than the things I used to run, but still an improper mish-mash in any case.
I give thanks to my relatives for financial support either way; still happy to have a new system. :) Not forgetting that my previous systems were always laggers, even when they were new... :(
Also, I bought this finicky IDE to USB wire thingymajig (with power cable too), but the drives don't get detected... (Insert bang wall emote here - anybody can help me out? :confused: Unless I'm really unlucky and all my 200gb worth of data is GONE... :() Other than that, I need to go reclaim some change on Thursday thanks to a bad PSU... And I think I betrayed myself a bit, find out why below... (Insert another bang wall here)
Thermaltake 850W
Gigabyte N680SLI-DQ6 Note to prospective CoolerMaster RealPower Pro 850W buyers - this board throws a start/stop fit with this power supply. The shop swapped the power two times, then they gave up and tested out the Thermaltake, which worked like a charm. Now I have to go claim my ten dollars =|
Kentsfield 6600
2GB Corsair XMS2 DDR2-800
Leadtek 8600GT TDH 256mb
Single 500GB HDD (Not sure of brand)
Some random LG 20x DVDRW (The shop didn't sell the Lite-On one I was after.)
Some random CoolerMaster casing
Stock aircooling all-round
XP Pro SP2
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What is that IDE to USB thingy? Go look on eBay for an external drive enclosure. Mine's a versa-drive, it works nicely (will prolly need a fan soon, but that's after a year, and the fan is supposed to be easily replaceable).
EDIT: BTW, LG DVD burners FTW! :yes:
EDIT2: http://search-desc.ebay.com/enclosure_USB-2-0_W0QQcatrefZC6QQfasiZ1QQfromZR10QQfrtsZ600QQfsooZ1QQfsopZ3QQftrtZ1QQftrvZ1QQftsZ2QQsacatZ70818QQsascsZ2QQsbrbinZtQQsbrsrtZd
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Some sort of two-headed plug (one side Floppy. one side IDE), and at the other end of the wire is a USB plug. Also has a power adaptor to it to connect the power for the IDE HDD. The idea was to get the 200gb out from the old drives and stuff it all into the 500gb one.
Haven't got it working, though... :doubt: Or I could just open up the case and plug the HDD in myself, but I don't want to mess it all up by mistake... (considering the results of my previous efforts, I've become extra paranoid...)
edit2: Damn boot.exe virus thingy... now the only way I can access my mobile hard disk is by using the Explore function... double-clicky gets a Boot.exe missing... gack help... (insert bang wall here)
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1.
[img]http://209.85.12.236/5024/118/emo/bangwall.gif[/img]
2. Get a normal external enclosure like mine.
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Buying for DX10 support actually is a good idea; though true it will be several months for DX10 to come around, you don't want to buy a DX9 card right now and end up throwing it away or selling it at a loss. If you do the EVGA Step-Up, you could probably keep a DX9 card (maybe the GeForce 7900GS, $155) until the better 8800/8900's come out.
Well, it has never been a good idea to give much weight to future performance when buying video cards. The trend with the last few DX versions has been that games start making use of it a year after the cards that initially support it are released, and actually start requiring it another year later. In other words, there is a lag of one or two generations. In the case of the 8600s, if you end up in a situation where you got a DX9 card and have to sell it, you would have to do the same with the DX10 one simply because of the poor performance.
True...on the other hand...the very first DX9 card to market, the Radeon 9700Pro was a real gem. Despite it being the earliest on the block for DX9 capability it was still taking on DX9 games a few years later. I'd still have mine if it hadn't gone to the big pixel shader fest in the sky.
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Well not that it matters, but I got that funky connector working.
Sadly the first two parts of my main 120GB drive are gone - now they just show up as RAWs after a chkdsk report of 17 bad sectors. Managed to recover some of the stuff that I lost, but as far as things go, I've lost anywhere from 40-70GB of data that I can never get back.
Running chkdsk again just gives me reports that the program can't read the partitions (and I think the entire drive too, even though the final partition is somehow surviving).
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Google up UBCD4Win, that has some good tools on it. Burn a copy, boot it up, and check under the drive recovery sections.