Hard Light Productions Forums
Site Management => Site Support / Feedback => Topic started by: Fineus on April 11, 2007, 12:35:20 pm
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Update: Be advised the cut off date for this topic will be Wednesday the 18th of April. After this point it will be locked.
We're looking to order the forums in a format most useful to the community.
This topic, separate to the other topic requesting ideas for changes/additions etc. is to discuss how that layout should be presented.
Although some elements will remains unchanged (that the private boards for hosted projects will be nested to those projects main boards, for instance) - we're looking to arrange the rest of the layout in a way most beneficial to the user. Although with so many people wanting different things, it may not be possible to make the layout all things for all people, we'd like to get it as user friendly to the widest base of people as possible.
Edit: Example of how you could illustrate the desired formatting:
*Important Stuff*
- News & Announcements
- Support
-- Feedback
-- Hosted Support
*Off-topic*
- The Pub
- The Meeting Hall
- The Classics
Explanation in a nutshell:
*Category*
- Board
-- Child board
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The only change I would make is to put the Support forum at the bottom, either in Off Topic or in its own category. It's not really important or active enough to belong at the top. This type of forum section is generally at the very bottom at the other forums I have visited.
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Just a minor suggestion for the board arrangement. In my opinion support is a little out of place there on top (it could even move very much to the bottom). On the other hand, the community projects should move one up, they are more important than games and gaming I think.
Other than that, I think the current arrangement is quite convinient and reflects the goals of this side
(edit) CP was faster with the support stuff :) But it seems that more people share that opinion.
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In addition to above suggestions, boards in Games and Gaming category should be moved to Off-topic and pub and meeting hall merged back with post counts restored. IMHO. :nervous:
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I know I have nothing to say here, but I think it's actual a good idea that the spamboard (and it is nothing more) doesn't count to the postcount anymore. This just might encourage some people (of course not all are that way) to continue, and I thought we want to get rid of this thing being a vital core of the site. Don't start strengthen it again, IMO it's fine as it is now.
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Get a better name for "the pub". It might just be me, but it just sounds kinda tacky.
Plus I think that the "games and gaming" section should be moved to just below the hosted projects, but above the off-topic section.
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The Pub needs a better name. Also, the Meeting Hall needs to be seen by everyone.
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If "Support" is only for problems with the site(s), then, yeah, maybe move to the bottom...
Better solution, IMO, would be to change Support into a general support section, with one of the child boards dedicated to the site, others for the various hosted projects, others for FS, maybe even some for graphics / sound driver / hardware issues... Just a though, anyway.
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The Pub needs a better name. Also, the Meeting Hall needs to be seen by everyone.
Ok for The Pub, I also would like to see more people in the Meeting Hall, but the MH should be leaved as an opt-board.
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opt in to write, but it would make interesting reading for the general public, IMO..
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Make "Support" more specific. Like naming it "Forum Support". Moving it to the bottom sounds like a good idea too.
Really, a Support forum for the SCP sounds neat.
Otherwise everything is fine IMO.
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I agree with moving Support toward the bottom and putting all of the FS-related forums ahead of Gaming and Fan Fiction/Art. If the new focus of the site truly is on the FS community and its work, then anything not related to it should be beneath it. If it's possible with this forum software, I'd also like to see the Meeting Hall forum made viewable to the general public, with admin approval for posting privileges. Seeing people engage in civilized, intelligent debates might persuade more members of the community to do the same.
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I second the change to the meeting hall, allowing the general public to read the threads but still have to opt-in to post. I rarely login unless posting (Lurker I know) but I visit on a daily basis just to read the boards and I'm sure there are others who do the same. I also agree with the general consensus of moving games and gaming below the hosted projects.
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I think the forums are quite well structured as they are and only need minor tweaking. (#Post counts should be off for these forums that I've marked with a hash, Why? A post count is something that should partly represent what sort of contribution that member has made in the community in a supportive/influential way. General discussion on off-topic, games and debate threads do not benefit the HLP community or its goals).
*FreeSpace*
- General FreeSpace Discussion
- Fan Fiction and Art
- Missions and Campaigns
-- Voice Acting
- FRED
-- FRED Academy
- Modding
-- Scripting
- Multiplayer
*Hard-Light* (#)
- Some fancy name for 'General Discussion' - other than 'The Pub'
- Meeting Hall - This also needs a better name!
- Gaming Discussion
- The Classics
*Community Projects*
+ Current structure is fine
*Hosted Projects*
+ Current structure is fine
*Important Stuff* (#)
- News & Announcements
-- Highlights
- Support and Feedback
*Archived Boards*
- The 158th Banshee Squadron
- Unsung Heroes
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The post count should stay off in Hard Light, and the other boards should be structured like this:
*Important Stuff*
- News & Announcements
-- Highlights
- Support and Feedback
*FreeSpace*
- General FreeSpace Discussion
- Fan Fiction and Art
- Missions and Campaigns
-- Voice Acting
- FRED
-- FRED Academy
- Modding
-- Scripting
- Multiplayer
*Community Projects*
+ Current structure is okay
*Hosted Projects*
+ Current structure is okay
*Hard-Light*
- Some other name for 'General Discussion'
- Meeting Hall - also needs a better name
- Gaming Discussion
- The Classics
*Archived Boards*
- The 158th Banshee Squadron
- Unsung Heroes
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i think its kinda sad to see tech related threads stuck to the pub. things like hardware installation, troubleshooting, new tech reviews, computer building threads, ect. the systems we use to do our work on are just as important as the work we do on them. i think a tech board or sub-board would be a good idea. and iv'e frequently found tech threads incredibly useful at making hardware purchase decisions and stuff like that.
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...and I think we should stop splitting up the Hard Light/Gen Disc./The Pub/Flamefest & Word Association board anymore. I've gotten over having a separate Gaming Discussion board (which I was a little peeved about at first :p), but if we have a hardware/tech board then we lose half of the threads in Gen Disc. right there.
I also wouldn't mind seeing the Padded Cell come back, but I'm sure most people wouldn't like that, so I'm easy either way.
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The only changes I'd like have made is to have the Games and Gaming section put below Community Projects, and merged into off-topic, that way Freespace would go down to Community Projects and then Hosted. Then, if possible, I think The Pub should recombined with Classics and renamed Hard Light again.
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(http://www.hard-light.net/images/hlp_logo_frontpage.jpg) (http://www.hard-light.net/index.php?id=2)
Having an Off-topic Gen Disc thread named "Hard Light" seems to detract from that, IMHO.
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It's what we've had for a very long time and I still feel it works...maybe I'm just nostalgic, but in this transition I don't think we should throw out as much as possible - things that can be kept should be kept, to preserve continuity. Besides, it would still be all the way at the bottom, so...meh, I dunno.
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Having a topic with the same name as the site at the bottom IMO wouldn't look good. Now, renaming General FS discussion to Hard Light... maybe.
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How about changing 'The Pub' to 'Hard Light Pub'? or 'Hard Light Cafe'? or something like that, so that it's still 'Hard Light' but it's more than just the title of the site, so people won't think it's the main forum or something (even though it is :drevil:).
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That actually sounds like a plan... :)
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any chance some of us could get read only access to the scp internal? i think it would b4e rather educational for anyone whos trying to learn programming (me). unless what you do there is shrowded in secrecy and obscure ritual which would drive the average man mad. but im already wierd so i dont think there would be any harm in a little looksee.
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Well, I imagine they don't want ppl quoting from there to other boards... Imagine taka in there...
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this "more important stuff needs to be moved higher" mindset is totally wrong, you need to group things that are somewhat similar or tend to be acessed sequentially near each other. the forums which are accessed most should (generaly, news/announcements is a logical exception) be highest. in addition things should follow a hierarchical structure starting at most general and moving to most specalised, this way it takes just as long to get to one specalised thing as it does another.
in this structural philosophy the site/community things should be near the top (most general, most used), but be highly structured as to have a minimal footprint. the freespace stuff should be below, this will place it directly in the center of the screen idealy, the 'general' material should not be so large as to push the freespace material out of view. the current subdivision of FS isn't that bad but (mainly) modding needs to be a little more centralized and organized.
Hosted projects being the most specalised, least visited (individually), and most numerous front end forums should be on the bottom.
If you want to promote some aspect of the forums, the best way to do that it to do just that, promote them, make more announcements/highlights, maybe advertise off site. breaking the forum's flow in some misguided effort to make them 'seem' more 'important' is just only going to backfire because a forum which is disjointed and unorganized is a forum people don't want to use. I know I've hardly used the forums since the change and my projects have suffered. it's all because everything is scattered and I have to go all over the place to find anything.
also I'd like to keep our general discussion forum named "Hard Light" it's been like that sence day one and connotes more of a community vibe, and I'm a sentimental tradition loving person. but it's not realy that important, just a more or less minor personal preference.
*General*
- News & Announcements
- Discussion (Hard Light)
-- Art
-- Gameing
-- Tech
-- The Meeting Hall (should be visible, as a subforum it's footprint will be small to those who don't care for it)
--- religion/politics (third tier subforum it's exsistance wouldn't even show up on the main index, figured there'd be enough of these to warent a subforum)
-- Thread Hell (alternative to locking/deleting, like the rift in WS allow people to make spam and say/do anything they want so-long as it isn't illegal. this allows heated arguments to peater out without disrupting general discussion. do not move things en mass as soon as you make it, just from now on if a thread gets (or continues to be) stupid/pointless/unresolvable move it here, be cautious about moving them there for the first few weeks untill everyone adjusts to the change)
-- The Classics
(**note** the above block is all subforums of Discussion/Hard Light, the *General* catagory only has three top level forums in it, this should place *Freespace* (or it's top level forums) right in the middle of the screen)
- Support
-- Feedback (visible to everyone)
-- Hosted Support
*Freespace*
-General
-Multi-Player
-FS wiki
-SCP
--its current subforums
-Modding (placeing this at the bottom will make it more visable, rather than being second or third with stuff above and below, it'll be the biggest forum and have a table break right below it, this does sort of break the general pattern though, so under general freespace may be a better choice)
--Finished Releases (maybe only allow some people to post topics here to ensure a good signal to noise ratio)
--Fredding (primaraly focused on missions)
---Campaigns
---Voice Acting
--Modeling
--Scripting
--FSU (might be better in hosted)
---FreeSpace Campaign Restoration Project
*Hosted*
-all current projects
-Dead Projects (forums here should all have a thread in them explaining who and how to get in contact with the origonater for the purpose of reviving said project if posable.)
what I think what would help out modding the most, however, is more of a content/service oriented main site. this is what built this community, sites like DC and PFS that had mod/mission databases and gave aspiring new modders a place to send there works, a screen shot of the day, tutorials, reviews, a tool download data base, that is what we need more than more efechent forums (note I'm not saying the forums should be left in there current state). but we need to make the process more automated, that was there downfall they relied on admin's continued enthusiasm too much, I think the admin responsibilities for our content should require no more than an approval to make sure someone doesn't start uploading warez and porn.
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How about making sure HL isn't a thread that people shy away from? (like me) You click on it, your eyebrows raise at a few of the titles, you quickly scroll down through the forum "nope, nothing here" and leave it. The topics you are interested in are infested with trolls. :ick: I don't mind having one gen disc labeled "Hard Light", but things should never degenerate into shouting matches. My 2c worth.
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i say we bring back the torrent tracker and make it more open. it would really save on bandwidth for mods/tools distribution and the like. it would just have to be moderated so its not misused. not everyone in the community can donate cash and can instead help free up some bandwidth usage by seeding torrents.
i like the heirarchical board system idea. for moding id have the general modding thread be the main board, then stick sub boards for scripting, modeling and textures, campaigns and fred, and maybe add a mod release thread. all the sub boards would be skill oriented and have the primary focus of sharing techniques and solving problems. the general thread is primarily for showing of wip projects, discussing possibilities for new mods. and of course release related information goes on the release board. you could probibly set it up where the threads on the release board can be hotlinked to the main page as hilights.
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i say we bring back the torrent tracker and make it more open. it would really save on bandwidth for mods/tools distribution and the like. it would just have to be moderated so its not misused. not everyone in the community can donate cash and can instead help free up some bandwidth usage by seeding torrents.
A tracker was reinstalled after public hosted project downloads were denied due to bandwidth limitations, yet it wasn't used even once. If requesting uploading rights is too much hassle for moderation, too bad.
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Heh this would have been handy for my torrent... :( I prolly would get a bit more support than I'm getting from isohunt on the issue of the name not coming up unless you search "FreeSpaceSCPDVD" <- who in the world would guess that? FreeSpace is part of the name, but if you search FreeSpace, it doesn't come up. Oh well. Next time, Huggybaby will tell me what to do... he knows a lot more than I do on that. :D
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well the problem with the tracker was that it was made right after a buch of stuff got released, so nothing else needed it for a long while.
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I only really lurk here, as my origional intention was to keep up to date with the SCP, however I did find the debates and such in the old Hard Light forum interesting. When that forum was split - and the interesting half hidden - I found out that it was actually the off topic forum that was keeping me here and not the SCP; this is the first time I've been back since.
You could just say "ask for permission to get into the other bit then!" and I could, but concentrating on me would be missing the point - people are ignorant and lazy. Of the newcomers that do find the pub, and then find out about the meeting hall (I know it's in plain sight in the description, but how many people read in this day and age?), most of them will be too lazy to ask for permission to get in. They don't know what they are missing you see. Maybe I'm underestimating the human race...
At the very least, I ask that you make the meeting hall visible to everyone. I would prefer that the pub and meeting hall be merged and perhaps moved above the hosted projects though.
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At the very least, I ask that you make the meeting hall visible to everyone. I would prefer that the pub and meeting hall be merged and perhaps moved above the hosted projects though.
Gooby doesn't know if it's possible; he's trying. Read-only access was AFAIK all that was wanted anyways, then request to post in there. But apparently it's not (yet) possible to make it viewable, but not editable unless an admin lets you in...
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Discussion should be "Hard Light". That's what it was since the beginning, there's no good reason to have changed it to "The Pub".
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How about having all discussion board named "Hard Light", and have child boards under it for "The Pub", "The Meeting Hall", "The Classics", and if necessary, "The Padded Cell"? In other words, rename "Off Topic (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php#61)" to "Hard Light"?
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I think the traditional setup was for both the category and the main discussion board to be named Hard Light, with the other board in the category being Hard Light Art. Given the current setup, I'd say you'd put the debate board in there as well, though I really think the archived threads should really be off by themselves.
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Well the only problem that I can see is this:
new user b:
"Hmm, what's this? 'Bringing Modders Together', interesting... Hard Light Productions... I'm curious. Ah, here we are, Hard Light thread, that'll be it. What's this?" *click*
some crazed Hard Light user:
"Bwah-hahahahaha! All you base are belong to us!"
(http://koti.mbnet.fi/gortef/hlp/shivan_sandwich.jpg)
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Never stopped it from working properly for six years.
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Well you must admit, quite a few of the threads were getting bad...
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I always considered it a trial by fire, like a lesser version of the Rift at Warpstorm.
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Incidentally, I sort of question putting all the art under gaming. There could presumably be none gaming-related art produced here.
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I consider it dumb. A little heavy-handed admin moderation is good for the soul. ;)
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Okey-dokey. It's Wednesday and the closing date of this survey. This topic may be re-opened at a later date but for now I'm closing it and leaving it stuck so that it can be analyzed and we can start work on the next bit.
Thanks to everyone who replied to this - your responses helped a great deal :)
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Right! Just about a month after I finished this thing and I've finally had enough time to read through it all properly and make notes. Assimilation may take a little while longer but then hopefully we can get some action going.
Thanks again everyone for your patience and sorry that it has taken so long. I just finished all my coursework for this year, so it's not like I've been slacking off ;)