Hard Light Productions Forums
Community Projects => The FreeSpace Wiki Project => Topic started by: Mustang19 on April 19, 2007, 01:49:17 pm
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http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Talk:GTC_Aeolus
Don't you think that people tend to overrate the Aeolus? It has as many anti-fighter beams as a Fenris (2), half as many as a Leviathan (4), and if you go into FRED and make a mission as I mentioned in the Talk page, the Aeolus can be killed by only one wing of bombers. This contrasts with the page's claim that "at full strength Aeoli can fight off ~ 12 bomber wings and survive".
IMO, this article needs to be really cleaned up. The Aeolus is OK for picking off individual fighters or for providing air defense for a more important ship, but on its own it doesn't fair well, and is hardly "The biggest, baddest, and meanest cruiser EVER", particularly when compared to the Lilith or even Leviathan.
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If you mean the 'veteran comments' section.. well.. IMO those are just personal opinions anyway.
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http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Talk:GTC_Aeolus
Don't you think that people tend to overrate the Aeolus? It has as many anti-fighter beams as a Fenris (2), half as many as a Leviathan (4), and if you go into FRED and make a mission as I mentioned in the Talk page, the Aeolus can be killed by only one wing of bombers. This contrasts with the page's claim that "at full strength Aeoli can fight off ~ 12 bomber wings and survive".
IMO, this article needs to be really cleaned up. The Aeolus is OK for picking off individual fighters or for providing air defense for a more important ship, but on its own it doesn't fair well, and is hardly "The biggest, baddest, and meanest cruiser EVER", particularly when compared to the Lilith or even Leviathan.
Veteran Comments and the Tech Room Descriptions are off-limits. "The biggest, baddest, and meanest cruiser EVER" was in the FS2 Demo.
EDIT: I also tend to agree with the article. The Aeolus is deadly. Go play the multi mission "Codename Robin Hood" on Hard and see if it gives you a new appreciation for the Aeolus.
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The Aeolus is always a strong opponent and it is widely used in many, too many, campaigns.
It is much better than a Leviathan... it has two SGreen and can rely on flak guns as well.
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Mustang19, what difficulty level do you usually play on?
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The Aeolus is a godlike cruiser. Unlike the Fenris and Leviathon cruisers, it has FLAK. Lots of flak. Six flak turrets, to be precise, all with excellent coverage. If you somehow manage to make a successful strafe, the aa guns with finish you and the blob turrets will shoot down your torpeedos. Then the Aeolus will kill the hapless medical frigate you were escorting with its duel SGreens. Then, the Aeolus will dance on your grave. Afterwards, the Aeolus will sell your sisters into slavery, cremate your pets, and trash your stock portfolio.
Nothing stops the Aeolus. The Aeolus is impervious to scurvy, tax audits, shielded fighters, and anti-cruiser torpeedos. The Aeolus is to fighters as the Sathanas is to anything dumb enough to drift in front of it.
FEAR THE AEOLUS!! OH MY GOD, PLEASE FEAR THE AEOLUS!!!
*collapses*
EDIT: WE'RE ALL DEAD!!
EDIT2: *spasm*
EDIT3: AEOLUS!!
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Did I give you this idea in that other thread? :)
The reason the Leviathan was able to take down more of them was because it has FOUR AAAf guns.
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Mustang19, what difficulty level do you usually play on?
Insane, almost always. Although the results are pretty similar on all difficutly levels. Apparently (I'm not sure), the lower the difficutly, the stronger friendly craft are and the weaker the enemy's are in terms of hitpoints. I can't see how else my wingmen seem to last so much longer on Very Easy. What I am pretty sure about is that higher difficutly = better AI, which matters little for either a bomber or AAA.
The Aeolus is very effective against Mr. All Alone Alpha 1. But flak turrets aren't very good at shooting down bombs. I don't know why. I guess that it has to do with accuracy. The Aeolus' only real asset is its flak. It has 3,000 more hitpoints than a Leviathan, but rather poor beams, and its flak is of only marginal use when spread out firing against multiple ships. As FS2 capships go, its AAA is relatively good, but as far as I can tell, all capships are no more than up-your-kill-score targets against an intelligent attack, and the Aeolus is not some kind of God-weapon that can handle "~12 wings of bombers" like the entry says. Maybe one wing.
But it's just a Wiki article, and I won't set this quiet board on fire because of my opinion.
*raises white flag*
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Opinions are always valued but if they are left unsaid they have no value at all.
Also if you test ships (as enemies in missions) remember to change all AAAf to AAAh to get some feeling of the beam accuracy.
And the The biggest, baddest, and meanest cruiser EVER. The Aeolus will smack you up. is earlier description of the ship (from demo version) so really shouldnt be changed.
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I normally play on easy or normal and I thin that the Aeolus is hard to take down (But then again I totally s**k at FS), besides against other cruisers or a Moloch it is better than any other Terran or Vasudan Cruiser dont know abnout the Lilith though thats one hard thing to kill.
/Dice
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The Lilith blows the **** out of the Aeolus until its beam gets disabled.
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The Lilith blows the **** out of the Aeolus until its beam gets disabled.
Even then, an unwary fighter pilot can take some serious damage from its laser turrets.
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Yeah, but you'd have to be pretty damn "unwary"... even the AI doesn't get hit by those things.
The point I'm making is that although the Aeolus seems excellent because against an individual fighter (ie Alpha 1) it is very efficient, but against a wing or so of bombers, it isn't that tough. I'm actually going to feature an AI bomber attack on an Aeolus in my next campaign, just to... make a point. :drevil:
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The Aeolus is a godlike cruiser. Unlike the Fenris and Leviathon cruisers, it has FLAK. Lots of flak. Six flak turrets, to be precise, all with excellent coverage. If you somehow manage to make a successful strafe, the aa guns with finish you and the blob turrets will shoot down your torpeedos. Then the Aeolus will kill the hapless medical frigate you were escorting with its duel SGreens. Then, the Aeolus will dance on your grave. Afterwards, the Aeolus will sell your sisters into slavery, cremate your pets, and trash your stock portfolio.
Nothing stops the Aeolus. The Aeolus is impervious to scurvy, tax audits, shielded fighters, and anti-cruiser torpeedos. The Aeolus is to fighters as the Sathanas is to anything dumb enough to drift in front of it.
FEAR THE AEOLUS!! OH MY GOD, PLEASE FEAR THE AEOLUS!!!
*collapses*
EDIT: WE'RE ALL DEAD!!
EDIT2: *spasm*
EDIT3: AEOLUS!!
I know something that can stop them!!! Budget cuts!!! They pwned it according to the story
.
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Uhh... I don't know, but this seems to be a load of baloney:
Oddly enough, I found this to be more vulnerable to bombers than an Orion
In the veteran comments of the Hecates. What rubbish is this?
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Well...I read in an article that the Hecate is cheaper than the Orion...that's incredible, really.
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Exactly where?
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There were Veteran comments so I guess it comes from the Wiki. It's pretty old, however...
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Whoever wrote that was a retard. The Hecate is both larger and is far more advanced. I hardly call that cheaper.
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Correct. I would also criticize the fact that it has just 100,000 hitpoints...it's obviously well defended. The Hatshepsut has much more hitpoints, for example...
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It all depends on the beams. Seeing as how most FS capships carry only a handful of beams, I assume that beams or their reactors are pretty expensive, otherwise it'd be smart to just fit a whole bunch of cheap beams on a Fenris.
The Orion has the strongest broadside of any destroyer in FS, so it may very well be that expensive. But I've never seen cannon evidence of exactly how much anything costs. In fact, the closest thing to a cost estimate I've seen is in the FS1 ref bible where it says that the Ursa is "the price of a small moon".
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We know that the cost of one Orion is superior to the cost of paying its crew for 3 years.
It all depends on the beams. Seeing as how most FS capships carry only a handful of beams, I assume that beams or their reactors are pretty expensive, otherwise it'd be smart to just fit a whole bunch of cheap beams on a Fenris.
You're right, but you forget Mrs. Eyecandy. There should be classic laser turrets and missile launchers too ;)
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Yeah, but you'd have to be pretty damn "unwary"... even the AI doesn't get hit by those things.
The point I'm making is that although the Aeolus seems excellent because against an individual fighter (ie Alpha 1) it is very efficient, but against a wing or so of bombers, it isn't that tough. I'm actually going to feature an AI bomber attack on an Aeolus in my next campaign, just to... make a point. :drevil:
Actually, against AI bomber attaks it's VERY efficient.
Rememebr the mission escorting the bastion? Sihvan bombers attacks in a clustered group, and our good cruiser than concentrates all of it's flak and AAF firepower into a rather small cone shaped area for a killer effect. That's besouse..well..AI is dumb. And the mission designer clustered the bombers.
I've seen an Aeolus kill 12 bomber wings easily like that. HOWEVER, spread those bombers in a wing about so they attack from different sides and it's efficiency drops significantly.
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The bombers were targetting the Bastion. Should they have been attacking the cruisers themselves, they would have been toast. The Aeolus just does not have enough AAA to destroy a load of bombs coming its way.
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No, the bombers were targeting the Aeoluses. Look at the mission in FRED. :)
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ORLY?
How come they weren't fried though? They were at super low health.
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Because the Aeolus is the biggest, baddest, and meanest cruiser EVER. The Aeolus will smack you up. :D
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Why, you ask? Becuase the Bastion and Aeolus had serious fighter escort. The fighters are assigned to guard the Aeoluses, not the Bastion, at mission start, so no wonder they seem invincible. Plus, the bomber hordes in Clash of the Titans II don't actually get fighter escort until very late in the mission, when the Dragons show up, IIRC.
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I was the one who suggested the Hecate may be cheaper than the Orion, and I had my reasons.
Think about it... the Hecate can only carry about 4 more squadrons than the Orion... and the Orion far outruns it.
Fighters provide a much better defence than any of the turrets a hecate has... and the Orion has less surface area for fighters to cover. A possible justification for the Hecate's suckiness is that it was designed to be a cheap carrier instead of the more expensive battleship type orion, I simply voiced it
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Personally, I'd go with the 4 more squadrons. But the Bastion is referenced to have 10 squadrons, more than the normal 8, so perhaps the Orion's capacity can be expanded. Also note that fighter complements are always made in terms of "combat spacecraft" or "fighter squadrons", so you probably could get rid of a few Hygeias, Hermes, and so on, to make room for additional fighters.
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I never heard that the "normal" Orion complement was 8 squadrons... :wtf:
AFAIK, it's 10 squadrons..Bastion is no exception ot the rule, that's the standard count.
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I never heard that the "normal" Orion complement was 8 squadrons... :wtf:
AFAIK, it's 10 squadrons..Bastion is no exception ot the rule, that's the standard count.
A squadron consists of 12 fighters (see Collie cutscene)
The Orion is said to accomodate 24 fighter and bomber wings (see FS2 Tech data)
A wing is 4 fighters (see Collie cutscene)
24 * 4 = 96 total fighters and bombers in an orion
96 / 12 = 8 total combat squadrons in an orion
Haven't I said this before?
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Phear Mars. Nothing can stop his canon wrath ('cept for Venom, he screws canon)!
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*sigh* I was only supporting my argument
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After paying close attention to the Aeolus in "Second Front" I can only second the statement.
The Aeolus is so WOW ...
I must admit, yes I was a bit late to intercept those bombers and I saw what the Aeolus made out of them. :eek2:
That was jaw dropping ...
I really will not underestimate it again ...
cu
Fabian
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The Orion is said to accomodate 24 fighter and bomber wings (see FS2 Tech data)
And that's the flaw in your argument.
For over 30 years, the GTD Orion class was the largest ship in the Terran-Vasudan armada. Over two kilometers in length, bristling with dozens of death-dealing turrets, the Orion is as awesome in repose as it is in battle. All GVTA Orions have been retrofitted with the latest anti-warship beam weapons, as well as flak and AAA turrets for dealing with fighters and bombers. The Orion's cavernous hanger bays easily accommodate more than two dozen fighter or bomber wings.
More than 24 != 24. :p
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16 != Dozens
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ummm. What?
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For over 30 years, the GTD Orion class was the largest ship in the Terran-Vasudan armada. Over two kilometers in length, bristling with dozens of death-dealing turrets, the Orion is as awesome in repose as it is in battle. All GVTA Orions have been retrofitted with the latest anti-warship beam weapons, as well as flak and AAA turrets for dealing with fighters and bombers. The Orion's cavernous hanger bays easily accommodate more than two dozen fighter or bomber wings.
16 != Dozens
See the point ?
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Ah. Well if anything that simply proves that you can't trust the techroom article at all then. :)
So then the only figure we have is the one from the Bastion CB ani and there is no reason to believe that it isn't the standard number for an Orion.
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The bombers were targetting the Bastion. Should they have been attacking the cruisers themselves, they would have been toast. The Aeolus just does not have enough AAA to destroy a load of bombs coming its way.
Who goes down first? The Bastion or the cruiser escort wing? :P
All GVTA Orions have been retrofitted with the latest anti-warship beam weapons, as well as flak and AAA turrets for dealing with fighters and bombers.
Ah. Well if anything that simply proves that you can't trust the techroom article at all then. :)
:rolleyes:
Yeah, we shouldn't trust those tech descriptions. The Terrans come first! :nod:
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All GVTA Orions have been retrofitted with the latest anti-warship beam weapons, as well as flak and AAA turrets for dealing with fighters and bombers.
ORLY?
Remember, the tech descriptions are usually only there to make it sound cool.
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The Lilith blows the **** out of the Aeolus until its beam gets disabled.
Umm, the Lilith does that to anything it can fire it's LRed on. :p
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I never heard that the "normal" Orion complement was 8 squadrons... :wtf:
AFAIK, it's 10 squadrons..Bastion is no exception ot the rule, that's the standard count.
A squadron consists of 12 fighters (see Collie cutscene)
The Orion is said to accomodate 24 fighter and bomber wings (see FS2 Tech data)
A wing is 4 fighters (see Collie cutscene)
24 * 4 = 96 total fighters and bombers in an orion
96 / 12 = 8 total combat squadrons in an orion
Haven't I said this before?
Where do you get the 24 wings number from? It ain't in no tech room I've seen...
Wiki edited with following:
Fighter compeltement: 96-120 (estimate)
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FS2 tech description:
The Orion's cavernous hanger bays easily accommodate more than two dozen fighter or bomber wings.
Any time you're curious about a tech description, just look on the Wiki, it has most of them there.
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easily accommodate more than two dozen fighter or bomber wings.
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Well I wouldn't like to say that they carry more than the Hecate (150) or that would make the other destroyer a ****ing mistake.
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There are plenty of reasons why you could want an inferior design. I get the impression that after the loss of Earth and its industrial capacity, the GTVA lost acess to a lot of special raw materials, industrial capacity, etc. and started producing lower-quality clones of its old weapons and equipment. The Prometheus R is the most obvious example of this. If you look at the FS2 weapon stats, you'll see that they're just the FS1 stats toned down a bit. The only new weapon, really, is the Maxim, and maybe the Trebuchet since it's such an improvement over the Phoenix.
So the Hecate may be larger than the Orion, but maybe it uses less miniturization (I know), less crew, less logistics footprint, or whatever. Or, the Hecate actually has decent AAAf/Flak defenses and the Orion doesn't. Think of your own excuse.
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As some people have said, the Hecate actually has a lot of blind spots because of its design. It needs more turrets to cover a larger surface area.
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Pirahnas FTW :yes:
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We know that the cost of one Orion is superior to the cost of paying its crew for 3 years.
Assuming the average crewman makes $30,000 per year by today's money, that's just short of $1 billion, or about a fourth the cost of a modern aircraft carrier.
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There are plenty of reasons why you could want an inferior design. I get the impression that after the loss of Earth and its industrial capacity, the GTVA lost acess to a lot of special raw materials, industrial capacity, etc. and started producing lower-quality clones of its old weapons and equipment. The Prometheus R is the most obvious example of this. If you look at the FS2 weapon stats, you'll see that they're just the FS1 stats toned down a bit. The only new weapon, really, is the Maxim, and maybe the Trebuchet since it's such an improvement over the Phoenix.
So the Hecate may be larger than the Orion, but maybe it uses less miniturization (I know), less crew, less logistics footprint, or whatever. Or, the Hecate actually has decent AAAf/Flak defenses and the Orion doesn't. Think of your own excuse.
The Kaiser!!!! the Kaiser!!!!
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All GVTA Orions have been retrofitted with the latest anti-warship beam weapons, as well as flak and AAA turrets for dealing with fighters and bombers.
ORLY?
Remember, the tech descriptions are usually only there to make it sound cool.
I remember the cover of the Freespace box.It has a moloc fighting a demios and the demois had 2 more turrets on each side.Then the top color was silver.They just made it like that to make it look cool.
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Create a mission, wich changes a friendly aelous into a hostile one in 60 seconds.
Start the missino and fly formation with the aeolus, watch it go traitor and eliminating the only witness...
By the way, the fs2 demo description has a nice discription of it to... (MEAN!).
I plan a campaign of an aeulos with Vsmall beams, Making it... quiet deadly.
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IMO, it's hull strength, and the strength and exposure of its turrets, are a significant weakness. Guess thats the trade-off to its firepower.
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I always thought of the Deimos as a more capable "air defense" ship. Pirahnas are IMO the best ship defenses if you aren't letting your ships just use normal fighter weapons like MS and Kayser. Infyrnos are actually extremely effective against bombers, if crap against anything else except with lucky hits (I've taken down a wing of 3 manticores with a well-placed Cluster Bomb in FS1).
You can argue that the Deimos isn't as cost-effective as the Aeolus, but I find it hard to make cost comparisons in FreeSpace.
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http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Talk:GTC_Aeolus
Don't you think that people tend to overrate the Aeolus? It has as many anti-fighter beams as a Fenris (2), half as many as a Leviathan (4), and if you go into FRED and make a mission as I mentioned in the Talk page, the Aeolus can be killed by only one wing of bombers. This contrasts with the page's claim that "at full strength Aeoli can fight off ~ 12 bomber wings and survive".
IMO, this article needs to be really cleaned up. The Aeolus is OK for picking off individual fighters or for providing air defense for a more important ship, but on its own it doesn't fair well, and is hardly "The biggest, baddest, and meanest cruiser EVER", particularly when compared to the Lilith or even Leviathan.
yer but it looks soooooooo pretty
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Ive already tested this since my mate loves the Aeolus (to the point that his nick name is Aeolus :eek2:). In combat an Aeolus VS a Leviathan they had a 50/50 chance of winning. We determined that the Aeolus packed a slightly higher punch with its 2 main cannons and flacks then the Leviathans main cannon etc, but the leviathan could outsurvive the Aeolus, as long as it didnt turn the turret away.
Moral of the story, Aeolus sucks against anything larger then a bomber, and even then there are better craft out there (especially considering the costs) :rolleyes:
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The common misconception is that the Aeolus has weaker armor than the Levy. This is wrong. The Aeolus has more 3000 HP than the Levy.
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Yes, I was pretty misinformed when I started this thread. The Aeolus has the most big-beam firepower of any cruiser (which isn't saying a whole lot, 2 SGreens vs Levi's 1 :doubt:).
On the Leviathan's side, however, the Fusion mortar really helps out- the Leviathan actually has slightly more firepower because the FM has a better damage/second than SGreen. So I think that the Aeolus and Leviathan were intentionally pretty evenly balanced. In actual combat missions, though, it really depends on relative positioning; the Levi is defenseless everywhere except from below, and the Aeolus needs its target in front or above it to bring both SGreens to bear.