Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: achtung on April 24, 2007, 09:37:29 pm
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Since this forum is about debate, and debate seems to be about proving a point. Shouldn't debate be a method by which someone changes someone else's mind on a matter? It doesn't seem like it, because in a debate, the opposition to an idea/belief usually just becomes more entrenched in their ideas/beliefs.
So how DO you actually change someone's view on a matter, or is it even possible?
I've heard of using kindness as a way to changing someone's mind, but that seems like a long shot.
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Since this forum is about debate, and debate seems to be about proving a point. Shouldn't debate be a method by which someone changes someone else's mind on a matter?
No. You can have a debate on abortion without expecting either party to change their mind. You (or the audience) can learn something in the process, or just plain practice your debating skills.
This learning process is the supposed reason behind presidential debates. Although I would still enjoy seeing one of the candidates say "You know what...I'd never thought of it that way." Or Kerry: "You've got a point there, George. Who needs an exit strategy, anyway?"
It doesn't seem like it, because in a debate, the opposition to an idea/belief usually just becomes more entrenched in their ideas/beliefs.
So how DO you actually change someone's view on a matter, or is it even possible?
I've heard of using kindness as a way to changing someone's mind, but that seems like a long shot.
I doubt you'll change somebody's point of view, because either A) they'll be so unused to the debate that they'll be defensive enough that they won't believe anything you say, or B) they'll be so used to the debate that they'll be so well-read on the subject that there won't be anything new you can say that will seriously affect their argument.
As far as kindness, well, yeah. :p Granted, you aren't going to change somebody's stance on abortion by saying "Pretty please with whipped cream on top", but the complete opposite will just make them feel so insulted that they'll barely acknowledge anything you say, besides to refute it. Your chances go from about .02% to .03% if you're nice*.
That being said, for every one person you argue and fight with, there may be tens or hundreds or thousands (depending on the venue) or more who end up reading your argument. Those people, who have no personal risk in changing their views because they're just silently listening, are the people who you're most likely to influence by being nice. Especially if you're debating something such as ethics or religion, where apparent friendliness will be associated with the success of that worldview. Nobody will want to take on a perspective that will make them dislikeable. Well, most people anyway.
* In the true spirit of debate, these figures are BS that sound about right for my side of the argument.
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What does it really take to change someone's mind?
Someone with an open mind.
You're wasting your time otherwise unless you just want to prove to yourself why you are right.
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What does it really take to change someone's mind?
A .44 Magnum and the balls to pull the trigger.
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either some anesthetic, a scalpel, and a new brain
seriously though. if i really want to, i'll just try to bombard them into nothingness with logic and facts. if they can stand up to logic and facts, then theyre probably religious or stupid, and no good will come from talking to them anyways.
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Well, what about experiences. I mean, it seems that words just tend to push an extremist deeper into their ideas, but what if they experience an event that makes it obvious to them that they are to close-minded?
Say, someone with an extreme belief that there is a god to prevent anything negative from happening to their environment. What do you think a negative event occurring to their environment would cause them to do? How would they react? Would this be a better way for someone to see a different side of an argument?
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Well, what about experiences. I mean, it seems that words just tend to push an extremist deeper into their ideas, but what if they experience an event that makes it obvious to them that they are to close-minded?
Say, someone with an extreme belief that there is a god to prevent anything negative from happening to their environment. What do you think a negative event occurring to their environment would cause them to do? How would they react? Would this be a better way for someone to see a different side of an argument?
No. When this happens, people tend to rationalize, because truly open minds and a willingness to change are rare. Sometimes, my mind has been changed by reading arguments, but only occasionally when I'm the one being belittled.
Yay! I said something that seems at first wise, but upon further inspection is just misanthropic! On the Internet! :p
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What does it really take to change someone's mind?
lots and lots of money.
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Or in the case of a politician them no longer having lots and lots of money.
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either some anesthetic, a scalpel, and a new brain
seriously though. if i really want to, i'll just try to bombard them into nothingness with logic and facts. if they can stand up to logic and facts, then theyre probably religious or stupid, and no good will come from talking to them anyways.
I would object, but given that disagreeing with your logic means that I'm either religious or stupid, I wouldn't see much point to debating with you, either.
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if you respond to logic with better logic, i'm actually somewhat inclined to listen and consider.
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either some anesthetic, a scalpel, and a new brain
seriously though. if i really want to, i'll just try to bombard them into nothingness with logic and facts. if they can stand up to logic and facts, then theyre probably religious or stupid, and no good will come from talking to them anyways.
You forgot prejudiced.
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I think that comes under stupid.
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You mean like Hitler?
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You mean like Hitler?
Do we have a Godwin's Law beam yet?
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I feel the desire to make a fifty-hitler post. Should I?
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You mean like Hitler?
Do we have a Godwin's Law beam yet?
You know, we really should.
Also, we should get working on moving the welcome beam into actual FS2.
EDIT: Would this work?
(http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/7230/godwinbeamcc2.png)