Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Colonol Dekker on May 21, 2007, 03:29:46 am
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Ok fess up, which of you was it??
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6675381.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6675381.stm)
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Bloody hell, I never went to see it the times I visited London, and now it might be too late. And I love sailing ships, too :(
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*checks flame thrower closet*
nope, full napalm tanks all around :D
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This is indeed a real tragedy, another piece of our great heritage burns. I hear the Cutty Sark restoration project have already stated that they will rebuild her, but it won't be the same, it'll be a replica as most of the original ship has burned! :(
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I'm just glad i got to look around it before the "silver car" struck.....300 years+ old did ya know. Older than the USA. :(
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Actually about half that, I think. Clippers were only built in the 19th century as far as I know. Anyway, it seems there's hope - Seems that many of the planks as well as the masts were stored elsewhere at the time as it was undergoing restoration, so it may yet be salvageble and, crucially, still mostly original. If so, I'll definitely make a point to go see it next time I'm in the country :)
There's just something about sailing ships (specifically the old tall ships and any other vessels with square rigging, not that modern carbon-fiber racing crap) that puts me in a state of awe, and seeing one go up in flames, well, it hurts in a way. Especially one as famous as the Cutty Sark.
Some years back we played host to one of the few tall ship races still going (might even have been the Cutty Sark tall ships' race, but I can't remember), and that has got to be one of the most impressive sights I've ever seen - 40, maybe as many as 50 huge sailing ships from across the world moored in Copenhagen harbour, alongside maybe a dozen massive cruise ships not to mention the mandatory 350m Maersk Line container ship and at least a hundred smaller 1-2 man boats criscrossing between them. Now that was congestion, I tell you. Pretty much the nautical equivalent of gridlock :D Needless to say, I spent the whole day there :)
I wish I'd had a digital camera back then, but alas I did not and if I tried to scan any of the pics I took the result would be terrible. Oh well, hopefully they'll visit again some day.
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I hope they get the bastards who did this, Cutty Sark was a gorgeous ship, and one of a kind, although they will probably be able to restore it, it's going to take years, and cost a fortune.
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Isn't HMS Victory a far older ship? And bigger?
If anythnig, you should see that...
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This is indeed a real tragedy, another piece of our great heritage burns. I hear the Cutty Sark restoration project have already stated that they will rebuild her, but it won't be the same, it'll be a replica as most of the original ship has burned! :(
Not to make light of what is obviously a very unfortunate occurrence, but this statement reminds me of a philosophical question I've heard in the past. A man who owns a boat takes excellent care of it and replaces every single plank that shows signs of decay. After a number of years, his efforts have led him to replace every single original piece of wood on the boat. Can he say that he still owns the same boat, or is it a completely different vessel?
At any rate, I've never heard of this ship myself before now, but I hope that it's able to be restored to its former glory. Tall ships have an amazing elegance and grace about them that's been sadly lost in most present-day vessels.
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Not to make light of what is obviously a very unfortunate occurrence, but this statement reminds me of a philosophical question I've heard in the past. A man who owns a boat takes excellent care of it and replaces every single plank that shows signs of decay. After a number of years, his efforts have led him to replace every single original piece of wood on the boat. Can he say that he still owns the same boat, or is it a completely different vessel?
Indeed. The material form of an object is all but meaningless. Rather it is the meaning we imbue upon it that makes that object special.
Philosophy is fun.
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Cutty Sark R.I.P.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Not to make light of what is obviously a very unfortunate occurrence, but this statement reminds me of a philosophical question I've heard in the past. A man who owns a boat takes excellent care of it and replaces every single plank that shows signs of decay. After a number of years, his efforts have led him to replace every single original piece of wood on the boat. Can he say that he still owns the same boat, or is it a completely different vessel?
Indeed. The material form of an object is all but meaningless. Rather it is the meaning we imbue upon it that makes that object special.
Philosophy is fun.
'This is the Axe of my Grandfather, sometimes it has needed a new handle, sometimes it has needed a new blade, but in every single way, it is still the Axe of my Grandfather' :)
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Why are you people burying her already? Did you actually read the story behind the link?
(...) A Cutty Sark Trust spokesman said much of the ship had been removed for restoration and the damage could have been worse.
Half the planking and the masts had been taken away as part of the project.
Chris Livett, chairman of Cutty Sark Enterprises which is repairing the clipper, said at the scene: "From where I stand there is not a huge amount of damage to the planking that was left on. There are pockets of charred planking and some have gone, but it doesn't look as bad as first envisaged."
The chief executive of the charitable Cutty Sark Trust, Richard Doughty, said: "What is special about Cutty Sark is the timbers, the iron frames that went to the South China Seas, and to think that that is threatened in any way is unbelievable, it's an unimaginable shock."
Following an inspection of the site on Monday afternoon, Mr Doughty said: "Buckling of the hull remains a big fear but until we do the measurements we are not going to know.
"With my naked eye, as far as I have been able to see, the structure of the ship seems to be intact." (...)
With any luck, they will get it fixed. And then the fire will be just another occurrence on the history of the ship.
A disgrace nevertheless... :ick: Whether or not it was deliberate or an accident.
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I've been to the Cutty Sark several times (I live about 15 minutes drive from Greenwich) so I was pretty upset when I first saw the pictures but relieved when I heard that at least 50% of the boat was away being restored already. They seem fairly confident that they can restore her to her former glory and still keep her mostly the same ship which originally sailed to Shanghai just to bring back tea. :) When they do, I strongly recommend a visit to anyone who is in London.
That said if it was deliberate I hope they catch and keelhaul the bastards who did it.
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Nah. Keelhauling implies letting them out of the water again. Keeltie them... more fitting :nod:
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Kaj is a Londoner :D
I'm really glad that its reasonably salvageable, I wouldn't want my kid(s?) to miss out on it.
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I'm just glad i got to look around it before the "silver car" struck.....300 years+ old did ya know. Older than the USA. :(
You're probably thinking of the Victory there, though that might not be quite so old either.
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No, the Cutty Sark was built in 1869 (IIRC) in Dunbarton, Scotland. Interestingly, she was built to carry tea as fast as possible from India and the far east and was the fastest sailing ship of her time, breaking many records. Unfortunately, the same year she was built, the Suez Canal opened making it easier and quicker to transport tea from India and could not be used by sailing ships, thus making the Cutty Sark somewhat redundant for her original role.
Dekker may have been thinking about the Victory or even the Mary Rose.
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Ok i admit i'm no naval historian :p
Anyhoo its an old ship, older than me at least :) and i'm glad its not a total loss. :nod:
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Talking of the US and saiing ships, are there any Ironclads left over from the civil war? I can't remember if any survived. I know most sunk under their own weight.
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It's still the Cutty Sark. Sure there are only a few ashes remaining from the original boat but don't you fret it's still the same ship.
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No, the Cutty Sark was built in 1869 (IIRC) in Dunbarton, Scotland. Interestingly, she was built to carry tea as fast as possible from India and the far east and was the fastest sailing ship of her time, breaking many records. Unfortunately, the same year she was built, the Suez Canal opened making it easier and quicker to transport tea from India and could not be used by sailing ships, thus making the Cutty Sark somewhat redundant for her original role.
Dekker may have been thinking about the Victory or even the Mary Rose.
Yup...victory is older..by far :
HMS Victory
HMS Victory stands today as the world's oldest commissioned warship. Still manned by Officers and Ratings of the Royal Navy, the Victory has seen over 220 years of almost continuous naval service.
Best known for her role in the Battle of Trafalgar, the Victory currently has a dual role as the flagship of the Commander-in-Chief Naval Home Command and as a living museum to the Georgian navy.
Launched in 1765 at Chatham Dockyard, the Victory was commissioned in 1778 and continued in active service for the next 34 years. In 1812 the Victory was retired from frontline duty and anchored in Portsmouth Harbour, on the south coast of England. For the next 110 years the Victory remained at her moorings in Portsmouth Harbour fulfilling a combination of practical and ceremonial roles.
In 1922, amid fears for her continued survival, the Victory was moved into Portsmouth's Royal Naval Dockyard and placed in No2 Dry Dock. Work then began on restoring the Victory to her 'fighting' 1805 condition.
Open to the public all year round, HMS Victory allows the visitor to explore the world of the Georgian navy, experiencing both the ship herself and the lives of the men who lived within her 'wooden world'.
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Wow that sucks, she was one of the few left from the clipper ship age. If im not mistaken she sill holds a few records for fast sailing? I know if we lost the USS Constitution i would be pissed. Better make sure nothing happens to the Victory. Heck she was old when Nel took her to Trafalgar to trounce the French
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Watch Sahara :lol:
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Nah. Keelhauling implies letting them out of the water again. Keeltie them... more fitting :nod:
Trust me keel hauling is about as worse as it gets, with maybe the exception of a flogging around the fleet. Tying them to the keel would be relatively painless, basically you would drown. The big thing to remember about keel hauling is that the ole copper hulled man o wars would become encrusted with weed and barnacles. So when you got keel hauled your body would be flayed apart in salt water as it got dragged across he hull. Keel hauling in effect would have you being drowned and sliced apart to ribbons. Not a fun experience no matter were you live
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Talking of the US and saiing ships, are there any Ironclads left over from the civil war? I can't remember if any survived. I know most sunk under their own weight.
After the Civil War most of the Union ironclads were sold for scrap, though not immediately. The Confederate ships were either sunk, or burned to prevent their capture. Some of the Union monitors lasted as long as the Spanish-American War before being stricken from the navy list. If you want I can check to make certain none survive (Civil War history is a hobby of mine and I have a book listing all commissioned ships for both sides and their service records/fates), but off the top of my head I'm pretty sure none of them remain in the kind of condition you're thinking.
Closest would the USS Cairo, which was sunk by a mine in a tributary of the Mississippi. It was eventually found sometime in the '70s or '80s and what was left of it raised; there's a museum including the remains of the ship (it's partially reconstructed) near Vicksburg. I've visited the place. The Cairo is a surprisingly large vessel considering it was a river ironclad and "shallow" draft. I've seen both it and the Constitution, and the Cairo is easily one and a half times the Constitution's width and three quarters of her length, probably a bit bigger in fact.
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I would need to dig up my old Sea Classics magazines but if I'm not mistaken i think One of the old CSS Ironclad Rams, Alabama? might have been raised for museum purposes. In addition i think they raised all or some of the USS Monitor, at least the turret. Lastly i know they raised the CSS Hunley but that's a submarine.
EDIT>> Nevermind i can't find anything on a raised Confederate Ram.
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Not to make light of what is obviously a very unfortunate occurrence, but this statement reminds me of a philosophical question I've heard in the past. A man who owns a boat takes excellent care of it and replaces every single plank that shows signs of decay. After a number of years, his efforts have led him to replace every single original piece of wood on the boat. Can he say that he still owns the same boat, or is it a completely different vessel?
As far as I know you cannot "change" the queel which is the core of the ship ( without completly rebuilding the ship from scratch at least, in which case would then make the answer obvious ), therefore it still is the same ship.
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I don't think the question was made to be taken that literally. :p
Also, I'm surprised that no one's posted a link to this comic (http://www.reallifecomics.com/archive/070522.html) yet.