Hard Light Productions Forums
Hosted Projects - Standalone => The Babylon Project => Topic started by: Bigoudi on June 11, 2007, 02:57:45 pm
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OK hi guy im French i folow this FS2 convertion for a long time becose im a old lover from B5 to.
Im a old 3D modeler to but not a modder :\. But i have try the last vertion 3.4 just like it alot FS2 engine give the best space fly feeling.
My prob is the EA starfury the mostly used ship in TBP so it look like a BOX dont want be wrong with the orinal crafter from this optimised model but i cant like any more this model.
So many nice job around and this box ship stay here dont know why.
So i got many many original model's from B5 like high and very high poly model's (i have etract the EA sf from my personal collection ^^ collected around the net.)
There can DL a pic a fast little scene render just make it for fun.
http://www.uploading.com/files/S7CU424A/board.jpg.html (http://www.uploading.com/files/S7CU424A/board.jpg.html)
On segond pic can see after 2 day litle worked on flat shading VS the real model B5 series (41415 face for half).
to 2373 for my half started model on low poly.
http://www.uploading.com/files/YFO2UV7V/preview01.jpg.html (http://www.uploading.com/files/YFO2UV7V/preview01.jpg.html)
Ok i have try to see pof file in modviw32 & vpview20 to open VP to see how its going, many prob i got i have never try to mod any game i dont know many thing about, texporter DDS make me sick i dont know how to make this file and for what its exactly use i juste know is texture / how to name exactly object / what is
exactly texture max size for the FS2 engine 256x256 hope more / how to place point and dummy for ship modul and name it / the ship optimisation when it is far from camera i dont know to how to turn this / i have for sure look many tutorial in forum from FS2 but im french and i dont understand all so english forum its a bit hard
for me.
Im using 3dsmax 5 i got a example file to help me from the FS2 forum and all soft need to make this all (POF exporter) (but know nothing about DDS).
ok if my litle actualy work enjoy pple to help me to make a new EA sf for TBP wellcome. :nervous:
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I really don't have time to deal with this, is there another experienced modder reading who can follow this up?
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The max texture size you can use in FS2_Open safely is 2048x2048 but you shouldn't be going anywhere near that high for a fighter. :)
If you're having trouble with DDS get it working with TGA textures and then someone can talk you through DDS later (The game will quite happily use TGA as long as you've ticked the option in the launcher).
That's the best I can do with my limited modding knowledge.
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Just for some history...back when we did the original models for the MOD we didn't have SCP and the poly limits were something like 400-500 polys and that was absolutely pushing things too far already! :)
Now thats good for a wing pylon or something :D
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OK hi again :).
Understand me pple i dont try to converting the real series model but to modeling a new, great new model with really many less poly.
there is 2 new pic of this ship, about how modeling is moving.
http://www.uploading.com/files/EH1BOAE0/preview04.jpg.html (http://www.uploading.com/files/EH1BOAE0/preview04.jpg.html)
http://www.uploading.com/files/36572NHM/preview05.jpg.html (http://www.uploading.com/files/36572NHM/preview05.jpg.html)
on pic can see now a flat and smooth side, this all thing on screen use now 8376 poly the real one use 90000.
(i got some litle wrong smooth part but i correct this later).
for now i modeling ship with many detail, if can enjoy in game with this all detail it will be wonderfull but i have sure let me some way to fastly change many ship part, if modeling is to heavy for the FS 2 engine.
im slowy understanding how the POF exporter work aparently dont need use texporter and thanks for ur help karajorma i want use jpg file i see in FS 2 launcher is option JPG & TGA.
IF is realy a limit number of poly use for a model for FS2 engine, pls say me what is the max limit i want try out this model under 10000 poly.
i have try to export the simple body ship with texture it day in POFcontructorSuite no any prob for now is worked, for sure ship move slow in 3D viewport ^^. uhm.
now my prob is i think when the pof is fuly exported so can enjoy in VP file there is the prob with name of the ship and map part need to be exactly same of the first i supose but i will sure have more map and more part :( so i hope dont enjoy to many ****.
Tks again for any help and futurer help.
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10,000 is very high for a fighter. I can't think of anyone going over 5,000 with 2000-3000 being much closer to the acceptable limit.
Bear in mind that the hard limit is much higher than that. The limit most people use is a performance based compromise.
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Yes yes sure 10k face for a fighter is realy to high, but i have open the VP & 3.4 in modelview32 and finaly is there many ship over 5000 face and game runing perfectly, after see that i think so why not try a good modeling for the EA sf.
my PC is a AmD XP 3000+ real speed 2.17GHz 768 mo and a geforce 7600GT on AGP slot i dont have a PCIE system. thats not a recently comp i mean so many pple there have beter comp or same.(game run perfectly in any scene so why not make a wonderfull EA sf, anyway wee see this ship every where i dont want play with a box anymore).
well actualy model got 10642 face but i have abused with edge chamfer on weapong can see on pic :(.
tomorow i try to get down many face and let see how is going. This is the bigest one model is the mother base modeling, after sure need drop some face and dont need objet.
http://www.uploading.com/files/TWK2CQ9L/preview06.jpg.html (http://www.uploading.com/files/TWK2CQ9L/preview06.jpg.html)
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Oh god not this again. :( I'm sorry but I've been through this so many times with different people, but for the sake of the new arrival... here we go again.
Yes you can have a Star Fury with 10k polys. You can have a Star Fury with 100k polys. It'll work fine in game. The problem comes when you have lots of Star Furies with 10k polies!. Supposing you have a few wings of them on screen, maybe Babylon 5 in the background. Suddenly your on-screen poly count is into the hundred thousands and your game isn't running as well as it used to. Oh and whilst reading this remember that TBP is all about rock and roll action. That means having lots and lots and lots of ships on-screen at the same time. Do you see the problem?
Now someone please pass me a shotgun I can stick in my mouth. Thank you.
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so many times
I feel like I didn't stress this enough. Let's try again.
SO MANY TIMES!
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UHM funy pple here > hi
sure i know when is more of 20 fury on screen this turn hard zzzzzz.
anyway i feel no one will help me with thing here ok np i try alone at all.
last count 6112 face.
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Ok guy's dont know if any like what i try to do.
for a first try i close model to 5746 face.
cant use texporter to hard for me for a first time with this model or i need some week to learn it.
ship is textured only with uvwmap in max i hope this dont cause any problemes later.
http://www.uploading.com/files/L8QJK8CX/preview07.jpg.html (http://www.uploading.com/files/L8QJK8CX/preview07.jpg.html)
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anyway i feel no one will help me with thing here ok np i try alone at all.
Don't misunderstand everyone --- I guess those still following TBP's progress with much exitement are now waiting for your ingame ready HT&L StarFury ... but those numbers grew short
I cannot help you as modeler... but I would do some testing if needed;
and if you are willing to model more for TBP I'm looking for someone to help me with something (but finish the fury first)
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Well sure i dont want misunderstand anyone here np about this.
For sure i want to post a screen with my ship in game but i got now a wunderfull prob with this.
i can only extract a file from the B5 3.3 core archive but NO way cant replace a new file and deltree a old file.
so same as else i have read many thing in forum around this dont find any soft like modelview32 vpview and else same thing no way i cant put my new ship in any vp file.
my idea in a first time was to name my new ship with the old name dont know if this work but i dont have any another way.
i have correctly named ship dummy and helper in max my POF file work greatly if POFconstructor suit and in modelview32.
ok if any know what is the way to put my new ship in the VP core realy tks.
i wait for this now or my ship will be stand in B5 station for ever :(.
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For sure i want to post a screen with my ship in game
don't forget about adding the "-fps"-flag (without "") to the flags so we can see the FPS the new model is causing
i can only extract a file from the B5 3.3 core archive but NO way cant replace a new file and deltree a old file.
there is no way to do so.... but the engine preferes newer files outside the .vp---
so if you just create a folder \models in your data folder and place the starfury there named "aurora.pof" (I guess; haven't checked) -- but you came to that one already yourself
OR
you could you a modular table file (ships.tbm) to edit the ships.tbl to use your model; but I'm not quite sure about the syntax of the .tbm file in question, it would be something like:
$Name: EA Aurora
+ No Create
$Pof_File: <HTLAurora.pof>
ps. could someone with more knowledge about .tbm/.tbl editing please check the second solution
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Now you see what you've did ???? You killed IAN.
Listen dude, our numbers for a darn fighter are 2000-3500 Polys... Wanna have it in game.... obey that ... simple as that..
Don't **** with me .... :hopping:
Ian I think I'll install the 3dmax once more and maybe have time for redoing some of my older ships...
:hopping:
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hi ha hi ha uhm
Oki realy tks for the last to comment sure now i need help.
becose tryed to place my ship in this VP 3.3 finaly dont work game crashed yes yes i found this fille need to open
the vp archive damn VPmage finaly i got it.
but this dont really help me i need aparently for now make a new ship witl all new that was bored i need now learn outside modeling :( it will take long zzz >>>>"-fps"-flag (without "")<<<< :( where why wee when :( im fully new with this thing. >> ship.tbm tbl << W w W w yes yes i have now to learn how to make a full mod :( only for that ship.
omg yes and another question is there a map size like 256x512 or 512x1024 can use this resolution or it must be sure 512x512 or 256x256 or can go less than 128x128.
tomcat lol ^^ i will drop face for sure i feel 5700 its to heavy :(
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You don't need to put your files in the VP, just put yout stuff in the proper /data/ subfolder.
Also, for texture size you can use any combination of 2^n size (like 128x1024).
I have a hard time understanding what exactly your asking, but I might be able to help you, just try to formulate short and clear questions.
Lastly, ignore tomcat ... for your own mental health.
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Under 3000 would be good. Like to see it anyway ;7
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Ok realy tks for this help but i mean any way if i make a new VP file with my model and maps inside need to
edit the tbl from B5 3.3 core with a new name.
Or ship is probably not in game that my problemes i dont know anything yet about tbl.
But i got now a wonderfull problemes i have yesterday formating my computer becose bad bad virus reset every 10 seg after resarting widows. before this the pofexp.dle work fine on my max 5 now i got a big prob
>DLL failed to initialize < when i try to start max with this plugins i have see 32 page in a forum about this problemes many talk about it but no one know why.
im now carefully fuked cant export anything more :( if any know something about this tks.
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You do not need to put your files in a vp.
Call your model aurora.pof, place it in data/models.
Place your textures in data/maps
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Ok pof exporter problemes resolved need simply install 3DSmax 6 or higher :\ dont know still a DLL's run around new vertion. maybe v7 installed.
? mean simply go in DATA floder from the F:\babylon project\data\ and here creat 2 new floder model & map ?
u sure is that all i need if my ship got it same name it cause problemes not ? with the aurora inside VP 3.3
mean duplicate ship.
maybe if u say i try like this realy tks for help.
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Check the file structures in the various .vps... Especially the vanilla FS .vps, if you have them. The .vp files are generally just stuff inside the /data folder stuffed in to a package for easy transfer/storage. The game however will always check the game /data directory first, and will use anything it finds in there. So for example, if you have the aurora.pof in /data/models directory, the game will use that one instead of the aurora.pof found in TBP .vp files.
Same goes for all other files. Tables, music, anims, textures, everything.
As for the folder names... The TBP .vp files should have the file structures intact (I think)... So you can check them which file goes in to which directory. Since you're modelling, you need to put the .pof in /data/models, textures in /data/maps. And tables go in to /data/tables.
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Realy tks for all instruction ok now let see a pic LOL.
thats was the first result in game i like joke.
ok dont know what is turning wrong only some part of my ship is showed dont know if is becose im not sure about scale size from my ship or its becose is there to many texture or is finaly to many face so FS2 engine drop it some automaticaly i have now many test to do if any have a suggestion about this bug im happy to know.
http://www.uploading.com/files/BWA3RYR2/preview09_in_game.JPG.html (http://www.uploading.com/files/BWA3RYR2/preview09_in_game.JPG.html)
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Well down my baby its now in game :P
i find the prob why object is not showed.
but i got now many litle thing to correct ship size one part of ship is wrongly textured and sure i feel modeling is really to high after this all thing corrected and some more optimisation i send here the ship if any want try it.
I got a camera problemes to cant zoom like to close is probably becose ship size and the litle exaus up right left and down right left isnt in place.
http://www.uploading.com/files/LJVV0739/preview10_in_game.jpg.html (http://www.uploading.com/files/LJVV0739/preview10_in_game.jpg.html)
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Well down my baby its now in game :P
it really looks awesome (for one of TBP's fighters).... as I already said I'll try it
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[various posts about Bigoudi's English deleted]
Lest we forget people. I am moderator of this forum. As such I've just declared that this is not an English language tuition forum. If you wish to offer Bigoudi help with his English then email him directly. Now I'll hear nothing more about this or I will drop a big hammer on you for great justice.
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[Enflamatory posts by Bigoudi deleted]
Bigoudi, you are welcome to post on this forum but please do not make posts which will re-ignite the discussion about your English again. That has been dealt with. Now let's move on everyone.
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i send here the ship if any want try
Yep, link please.
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You do not need to replace ships.tbl, or in fact change ships.tbl in any way. Only replace aurora.pof by placing your new version in data/models
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Yes IPAndrews Yes i understand this for sure its what i have do, you can see my *rar beta testing is there only floder.
my problemes is to place camera closer from ship in external view in game i can only change this in ships.tbl
i have try to edit this ships.tbl in a new floder called tables.
problemes is when i creat this new floder tables and put in the ships.tbl to change camera view game crash
at start.
(and any help about specular & env map in 3dsmax is really wellcome)
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Yes IPAndrews Yes i understand this for sure its what i have do, you can see my *rar beta testing is there only floder.
my problemes is to place camera closer from ship in external view in game i can only change this in ships.tbl
i have try to edit this ships.tbl in a new floder called tables.
problemes is when i creat this new floder tables and put in the ships.tbl to change camera view game crash
at start.
(and any help about specular & env map in 3dsmax is really wellcome)
You shouldn't need to change that viewpoint unless the size of the model is significantly different. Unless its a bounding box issue or something like that.
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The external view position is generated automatically based on model size. The bounding box as IceFire rightly points out. It's not stored in ships.tbl . The view distance stored in ships.tbl is for the tech room.
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Ow ok uhm tks i have now to scale my ship 100 time to find good view lol :sigh:
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As you scale up your ship, your bounding box will get bigger, thus your view will always end up at the same place. For some reason when your ship is being compiled it thinks it is bigger than it really is, and so does the game. Consult someone who knows how to convert models from 3D Studio using the plug-in and ask them to help you.
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Uhm ok some new i have ask for help directly in moding forum.
someone have nicely explain to me how to make specular and else map on ship.
problemes is for now if i convert a *TGA to *DDS in DXT1 i see nothing anymore in game.
Ship is completly hide.
i use plugins from photoshp to convert my tga on dds dxt1 is here many option im a bit lost.
can folow from here my new topic.
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,47771.0.html (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,47771.0.html)
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Ok i have find why ship is not show that not a problemes.
the thing is i got now specular & environmental map on my ship tks again Water.
> For the environmental map you modify the alpha of PANELS-shine.dds -use DXT5 when saving <
just one last problemes where exactly i change this alpha for environmental map becose reflection on my ship
is really to high i just need know if i change this in photoshop or in 3dsmax 5 ?
where where tks pls.
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Ok after many help from some pple.
i finaly know how to change environmental map strench & how to make this specular map.
2 thing resolved for one new problemes lol i will never come out.
finaly after specular enjoy on ship in game with envi... map i just feel something
bad on ship with specular really not same at else ship.
mean the specular dont rotate around ship when i rotate ship in every way, in ship database.
still specular stay from one point or mean something is reversed on specular. (see same on smoothing)
so now lol from what come this new problemes from 3dsmax or another prob with dxt converting
or ????!!!!!!. i have read many thing about this in moding forum from hard light well i have 32
page to read if any know from what come this specular problemes tks to reply.
this new beta include optimisation to 3350 face wrong specular & some litle reflect.
detail-1 -2 -3 is not modeling camera stay away from ship becose i dont want now texturing ship
with uvwunwarp, my 9 material cause bouding box problemes becose this the external camera stay far.
............to download ship go to end of forum a new relase is there.................
>> Specular problemes corrected now can watch beauty in game <<
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You need to merge these textures together. You have too many textures on this fighter. One is enough, two is pushing it for a fighter. The HTL renderer can render thousands of polygons, but it has difficulty with large numbers of textures.
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HI yes yes yes sure so many texture is not good i will change this in my next relase.
i got so many texture becose i hate use texporter to map a object and i dont know how to use.
hihihihi so i dont know when i want try to learn to use this texturing mode but many day :hopping: or probably many week i need. :pimp:
it day i will try with a :mad: BOX :mad2: for a first try is fine i hope so.
if i know how to texporter this ship i want try to put all used map in a 1024x1024 map.
:shaking:
:shaking: :eek2: :shaking:
:shaking:
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..........
im a litle boring from this thing cant have anything proper.
maybe now probleme is not anymore unvrap uvw map.
prob is now this old thing about ship size the camera stay away in external view.
in a first time i mean got this becose i have 9 material on ship and differently smooth group on ship.
but no way i have export ship with a simple texture only one material and reset all smooth group,
reset X-form & reset uvw & material all was reseted, no way camera stay far.
I mean during modeling if we do something wrong is for ever.
i dont have find for now on any forum talking about this bouding box and ship size probleme now if any know
........................
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You could try using LithUnwrap to reorganise your uv.
Download it here:
http://underworld.fortunecity.com/pacman/106/fs2mods/shipcreationguide/lithunwrap1-3.zip
Read the tutorial here:
http://underworld.fortunecity.com/pacman/106/fs2mods/shipcreationguide/uvmappingyourmodelusinglu.html
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tks for tuto andrews but i use unwrap uv from max i use this one beter.
I just want know one thing i dont know how many have try my ship but it look good or not.
no one say if like or not.
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I would just like to mention that BWO will have a 5,000 light fighter and a 12,000 poly bomber, built by the guy who also happened to design the renderer engine. I have told you people "so many times" that unless the model it in the 3 or 4 thousand range it's not going to make much difference, fewer polys per ship DOES NOT equal more ships in game. if a chunk of geometry has less than 1000 polys it's basically being waistfull with a valuable rendering call. I've been trying to explain this to you for years now, having models with polycounts in the hundreds really will not help any.
and new guy, the most important thing you must do is use only one texture map for the ship (maybe a second for the cockpit) THAT is what is important here, a ship with 10,000 polys and one texture will render faster than a ship with 2,000 and two textures.
and just about anything would look better than the 1998 through back that is currently being used, TBP really needs to renovate some of it's models, but they need to not scare off new blood first.
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Well done Bigoudi, its looking good. :yes:
Bobboau, if the poly-count doesn't matter then why use lod's at all? I thought the point of the lods was to speed things up by reducing the poly count. Could you explain a bit more why please? :confused:
a ship with 10,000 polys and one texture will render faster than a ship with 2,000 and two textures.
Like to know more about this too!
It would be so cool if i we could have higher poly ships without the slow down though! :nod:
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well, over about 1000 polycounts do start haveing an effect, that's were the LODs come in.
and the basics about how this works is, FSO uses batching, it draws all polys related to a texture with one call.
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Bigoudi can make his Star Fury any poly count he likes as far as I'm concerned. ;
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Wow really interesting thing around my star fury it day. :P
tks around to find it my ship nice. WA no limit polycount ^^ only one map on ship wow dont know can do this.
but uhm now i feel my last polycount will by probably perfect with only one map. actualy count is 3350.
Now im to chek all part of my ship for the external view prob... aparently wrong modeling somewhere becose
at some part ship is correctly in place and some another ship part camera return far again.
hey about this polycount make sure about how many i can use for ship before map, i dont want map 2 or 3 time same thing. i just remember me the model with 5700 face was just perfectly as i like.
And Bobboau ((( important question a ship with 10,000 polys and one texture will render faster than a ship with 2,000 and two textures.))) if a ship use 10k polys how need to modeling it close like a box or can have some open part on ship how exactly work this >> draws all polys related to a texture with one call.
Ow and TBP really needs to renovate some of it's models :D
Yes i think to i have see many another ship they need a litle level up, i like alot when i play some mission with my fury like 10 of them turn around me this new modeling this change completly face of the game.
here a litle link there is where i find many of my model from B5 only high polycount model's.
http://homepage.eircom.net/~bcelestia/ (http://homepage.eircom.net/~bcelestia/)
im care about modeling im a old close hard surface modeler but i have stop 3D becose bored to make my all thing alone for nothing never find a way to work with. him just happy here to make this fury.
So far i remember me last thing i tryed to make got 780,000 poly but lost project unfinished model & no map.
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You can make it a billion polys for all I care. It won't get in the release I'm working on anyway and I'm bored to tears of fighting this battle.
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Yes yes i understand it.
i will try to make a good end relase so can try on any mission if got crash or else and if finaly will be in relase or not i hold for me np. but now im fixed on this cam prob cant make anything more before this is resolved.
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Omg sry if i boring pple here with my ship.
But i have turn so long around this camera probleme becose i used PCS 1.43 dont know PCS 2 is there somewhere on this forum.
max radius changed and camera in place so easy.
:(
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FSO uses batching, it draws all polys related to a texture with one call.
Thanks Bobboau, interesting. :)
The reason I've asked is, I've started to learn some opengl at the NeHe site and, well, lets just say as a avid gamer with some modding experience, i had no friggin idea how complicated all this is. I mean, ya make a model, convert it, fred it, without really understanding how it works!
Get down to the vertice level, and things look totally different (my rose colored glasses have well and truely been smashed :D ).
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I don't frequent this forum so sorry for not answering earlier,
Bigoudi, if I understand your question, you don't have to do anything special just assign the same texture to every poly.
and open meshes are fine.
and I wouldn't say there is no poly limit, there is a significant penalty for using more than 65536 unique verticies (unique in that they have a different position, UV space and lighting normal) and there is a hard limit of 2^32 verts. but in reality I have that bomber future proofed, I'm expecting at least a year's worth of time before it gets released and I want to not have to worry too much if it takes longer. in addition I'm using a feature known as detail boxes (http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Detail_box) to augment the LOD system, you can define a box for a model were the model will draw only if the observer is within that box. detail boxes are not really that useful on smaller ships (the bomber I'm using it on is exceptionally large) it was designed more for large ships.
I would suggest shooting shooting for a poly count between 3000 and 6000.
anyway, you also are looking for a link to PCS2? there is a link in my sig. keep in mind PCS2 is still very much being worked on and there may be problems with it. this thread (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,47023.0.html) will keep you up to date on what is working and what is being fixed.
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[Tomcat and Bobboau's posts deleted]
The poly count debate is over. Bigoudi can use as many polies as he likes, We will all continue to disagree over what constitutes a good poly count. In the same way we disagree over what constitutes good coffee or an attractive woman. But on the grounds that everyone knows what we think we will all shut up about it. Now I will hear no more of it. Or else I will once again have to kick ass and chew gum, and I'm all out of gum.
Hugs and kisses.
Your moderator.
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Ok pilot's for now the new EAsf will stay in B5 prototype station.
im on else thing for now i understand carefully TBP dont really need new ship.
when i close my model with map & distance lod optimisation.
i will post here like a optional ship, every all like it can use and finaly time will say if is agree after some year
from the high TBP consul.
Bobboau tks for this detail box.
i dont know how long i need to close this model. Tks again for all help from moderator & another pple here
about this first ship i try to do.
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If you want you can post your WIP stuff here, and I'll add it to my TODO pile.
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uuhhhhhh o.O what exactly mean >TODO< pile.
no no i hold it all i send something when ship is finish.
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I meant my pile of various unfinished models. It was just a suggestion in case you loose interest in finishing the model.
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ow ow i see what u mean i probably boring to finish my ship to make a good relase.
sure if i feel i dont want any more make it i send 3dsmax project here. but modeling is close map is 80% draw
i just have to uv's.
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Ok hi there long time no new about my fury.
i have recently find a french team they want do a mod for fs2, im the official modler for now on this team i have to creat many ship rruuhh.
but i dont forgot this project so i post a litle new lod-0 pic, is not really more optimised but i have hard work about 3 day on map from ship.
ship look like a workshop toy, shine and glow is down, uved on one map.
the bored thing is now make all lod's and re map again every lod's :(.
http://www.uploading.com/files/CPXEUHMO/preview12.jpg.html (http://www.uploading.com/files/CPXEUHMO/preview12.jpg.html)
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:yes2: :yes:
really cool (again, I've say)
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Ok pilot's this a last preview before i make all lod's.
map, shine and glow look now what is the end relase, i feel personaly ship is perfectly
in game with the all another thing (ship, space & light).
i hope i will have many comment from my ship testing to know if some is good and some else is
not good this will help me to make a beter relase.
i have make one lod detail-0 & detail-1 is now close.
about lod's i need probably a litle help becose i have try ship on many mission and try to
zoom out camera i dont see the lod -1 change in game or i look probably wrong.
how i have convert this ship detail-0 was in a first time modeling in max5, ship transfered in
max8, lod -1 modeling in max8, all texturing in max8.
exported with the plugins for max6 the famous pofexporter > in max8.
in a first time POF was placed in PCS 1.43, to place weapong, modul's and else, in a segond
time POF saved from PCS 1.43 was put in PCS 2c alpha to change the camera probleme and the BSP
size & bouding box.
im not sure in the good way but i dont know any else for now.
if the high TBP consul can look around this ship if lod's is working or not if not WHY tks.
probably becose need do all 4 lod's but im not sure.
and have fun with this ship in game i love it personaly.
>> new relase farest on forum >>>>>
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Ok uhm tks for comment np about this.
i have try my ship on many mission VS the old one, fps is locked to 60 on every mission.
just not sometime fps droped to 45 when the b5 station is on a mission with really many else litle ship but no any prob report for now.
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I've tested with some of my missions and while playing "Raider Wars 3.0" and here are the results:
New Fury in a mission of RW (http://www.mydatabus.com/public/0rph3u5/e/fury2.jpg)
New Fury in a mission of AotB (http://www.mydatabus.com/public/0rph3u5/e/fury3.jpg)
The Fps varied on my mashine from 48 to 60 when many of them were present -- it was rather the capship fire in the background which slowed everything down
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Well tks to have test it yes i got same FPS count.
but only two lod's is there. i dont see the first lod swich in game why becose ship is to far from camera and i see nothing or becose need do all 4 lod's.
can any explain to me this part.
ow and 0rph3u5 just a question will u use for now this fury vertion or u are using the old one again.
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ow and 0rph3u5 just a question will u use for now this fury vertion or u are using the old one again.
I'm using the beta 0.4 you released at the 18th July
is there anything wrong with it?
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No no is there nothing wrong. the thing is no one send any comment about my ship :(.
about texturing modeling & else :( i cant make a beter relase wipout know any player feeling about ship.
stile 3 thing is not good on ship on rear top wing's its a litle missing texture part, on the rear modul texture
a part is textured on a bleu color but the real color is gold and i feel personnaly the glow from windows is a bit missed.
the eyes is not correctly in place the shot is wrong. if u want hit correctly u have to put cross a bit up of the target or u miss sure.
and no one say if the first optimised lod work or not :(.
and is probably many else thing i dont have see or pple dont like on ship i want to know it to make it perfect.
maybe np tks to use it :).
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Maybe you need a little advertising for this little baby... I'll open all channels I've got to get it into screen shots and campaign releases --- but that will take some time
If you could make a black omega variant of the textures (you know the PSI Aurora) I maybe can do a little bit more for you 'cause I could use it for my "The Black Hand" campaign
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Omg omg u try my ship on every mission.
well oki tks for do this but is for now only a beta vertion is not all 4 lod's.
mmhh lod's change probably nothing about FPS.
ok i will correct some litle thing and make this black omega vertion anyway i juste have to change the diffuse map nothing else is not long.
before make any more test beter wait i make some change tks :)
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Ok new vertion!
what new in beta 0.5 all 4 lod's is modeling and maped.
and some litle textures change & cliping.
2 new fury coverted black omega & the escort at the end of the tech data list.
about this 2 new fury's converted im not sure about color is exactly that if is wrong ask me i
correct it.
i dont know if lod's work same prob again i dont see log's change when ship is going far from
camera.(or i see wrong ! ?).
I HAVE SEE some fury's like (ivanova, sheridan, & sinclair) in 3.4 core but not in tech data.
i dont have make this ship but if need any one of this ask me its just a litle texture job :).
now u can test ship correctly 0rph3u5 i hope so if lod's work is the only prob.
http://www.uploading.com/files/K4B2BELT/EAsf_new_beta_0.5.rar.html (http://www.uploading.com/files/K4B2BELT/EAsf_new_beta_0.5.rar.html)
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hi,
nice work, look really good :yes: , as far my memories are correct :D.
but on thing i miss, see it more as a suggestion :), a real cockpit :pimp: .
Mehrpack
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Oh tks to try my ship to ^^.
a real cockpit yes o sure i have look many time about make a cockpit and some litle rear part of ship to give greater life.
the problemes are the poly count and i dont really have more place on my 1024x1024 map.
and IPandrew hate high poly count :\ im restricted my self ^^ lol.
maybe if ship is agrée from many pple and if many ask me to do, i will yes probably try to make cockpit & rear part, ship will stay under 3500 face with cockpit & rear part.
but for now ship is under test i dont change anything for now.
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Oh tks to try my ship to ^^.
a real cockpit yes o sure i have look many time about make a cockpit and some litle rear part of ship to give greater life.
the problemes are the poly count and i dont really have more place on my 1024x1024 map.
and IPandrew hate high poly count :\ im restricted my self ^^ lol.
maybe if ship is agrée from many pple and if many ask me to do, i will yes probably try to make cockpit & rear part, ship will stay under 3500 face with cockpit & rear part.
but for now ship is under test i dont change anything for now.
hi,
np :).
if you some day have time or want it, maybe you can make a second version with cockpit *look like a really little dog with lovely eyes* :D.
Mehrpack
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Mehrpack yes yes i want try one day to do cockpit and rear thing on ship ^^.
but to do this i have to replace all of my map.
this take many time becose starfury is the hardest fighter to modeling & map, but sure one day i will do it :).
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EA starfury cockpit reference:
if you decide too, heres a reference for the EA starfury cockpit:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8UmAD_rm_Q&mode=user&search=
you can see it about one third through the video.
hope this helps :D
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and IPandrew hate high poly count :\ im restricted my self ^^ lol.
As I said earlier use as many polies as you like. It's up to you how fast you want the game to run.
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I've had a look at the new version -- wonderful...
I'm terribly sorry I could not spawn more pictures but I've been busy doing new missions for various project lately (it is all a matter of chocolate you know)
and please stay away from doing a cockpit --- that would be the super overkill to the poly count and make the model playable for many
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I've had a look at the new version -- wonderful...
I'm terribly sorry I could not spawn more pictures but I've been busy doing new missions for various project lately (it is all a matter of chocolate you know)
and please stay away from doing a cockpit --- that would be the super overkill to the poly count and make the model playable for many
hi,
yes, but i think if it only in LOD0 and thier as alternativ, only for they people which have the a computer there are powerfull enough, i doesnt see there so a problem.
i love to tantalization my pc :D .
Mehrpack
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oh, come on, every other FS mod is making cockpits these days, and the SF is one of the few were it would actually be somewhat visible, make it a detail box if you must but really, it could use one.
and I wouldn't care too much about IP's opinion anyway, he seems dedicated to "finishing" this project, as in closeing it, as in no more work to be done, ever again, so I doubt your or any one else's ship will ever become 'official' with the current administration, regardless of it's poly count or what it looks like. that was the 'final' version after all.
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a detailed cockpit view is a must have! if youre afraid of few more polies go upgrade your hardware
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Hmmm I cannot start a new poll so i will ask this here. On B5tech.com it is stated that Star Furys have 4 Guns, I also see 4 cannons in the series, but only two of them fire. Will it be able in TBP future releases that we can use all 4 guns. ? Also the Bagder has an Gatlingstyle Railgun, which is not in your game ?
Also will there be a option for "Series Like Realistic Hits" ( One Hit destroy a fighter ) You can often see that the Raider ships only need one hit by Starfurys to be destroyed
But I also want to say : I now play your Mod since 2004, and I must say I love it !!! You were able to create a over 90 % B5 feeling, I think the last 10 % are not able to reach due limitations of the F2 Engine ( Higher Fire Rate of all Capital Ships weapons ! Shorter Breaks between they fire and so on...."
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B5Tech should be taken with a grain of salt. They don't have a good reputation for accuracy.
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Maybe, but in the Movies you can see that the Starfury has 4 guns :D
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Maybe, but in the Movies you can see that the Starfury has 4 guns :D
Badger or Aurura?
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wa wa so many comment :).
well i have look many thing around ship, i dont want change poly count any more for the first lod.
becose ship look like just at the good limitless feeling at first lod.
i see 2 big problemes why ship is so heavy in some game part.
1. 1024x1024 map is to high for sure, but wipout this 1024 map, with so many poly a lowest map size like 512x512 kill it ship feeling.
2. THE lod's from any fighter is drawed TO FAR from camera so becose this ship hold to long the 1 lod's.
becose this to my new model is to heavy.
i try to respond to any new comment but for one more i dont have inderstand all.
about the segond weapong yes i have modeling it becose ship look realy beter with, and sure can put later some new weapong if need or want.
about the cockpit mmhh yes it will be a good idea if i stay under 3500 poly count, but i dont know what the way to do it exactly, i dont know if i can make it only with one map & one material, i mean for the window opacity
if it work use only the alpha channel from diffuse map, i change only the color from the alpha in a coner of the 1024x1024 map where is located the window so i can try to have it only with one material.
and why do a cockpit anyway we never play inside ship i mean the glow map is bad drawed that my fault im a noob maper if someone will draw a beter glow map for the cockpit why not :).
And else thing if i do a cockpit finaly only the starfury got it one & later pple say why only this ship got it a cockpit and not the another one zzzzzzzzz......(fighter poly's count will be explode).
diffuse map from this ship can be really beter but im not a good maper.
tks for many coment about like my ship, i have hard work of this model becose i love this fighter i have modeling it like a memory's starfury for every all like is playing TBP & TBP moder team.
what in the futur about this new model i will correct it a litle unmaped face, the litle truster efect is not in place with my model and try to add one litle map detail.
probably do it rear part with some litle more poly's to improve ship feeling for external view.
0rph3u5 no prob about pic i know make something for a mod is long.
for the end i want say im now the official modeler of a new project but is hard to creat new ship i take my time about this for now.
but if the TBP team ask me to change anything on ship, a texture change, a new fury model, new weapong point ask me directly here i try to make it how fast i can.(dont say badger pls i dont have time for do it now).
i hope i dont boring pple with a so long post & i ever hope this fury will in final relase :rolleyes:.
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Well about the texture I believe you could use the original texture, which looks decent enough.
And from the pics Ive seen, only problem I have with the model itself is the fact that its fully smoothed, which tbh doesnt fit much with the starfury style
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you do know that LOD distances are set in the ship table, right?
cockpits are often made as a separate model due to drawing order issues, this makes it easy to also use detail boxes with them, since the object is separate already this is one of the rare situations were using a separate texture is often acceptable, though if you can use the same texture it is still much preferred.
cockpits are a standard feature of most mod fighter craft, initaly people were making the comments that they wouldn't be visible, but after the first few were made people stopped saying that for some reason. and you can make it so the cockpit is visible to the player, so if nothing else it's good for that.
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Raven2001 i dont have understand all about the smoothing but ship is not fully smoothed, i have modeling it with the original fury from serie be side this one, smoothing is exactly same of the original one.
Smoothing is located exactly same of the real one.(but sure in TBP is no shadow & ship dont got the 87000 poly's count for sure this drop many ship feeling).
Bobboau yes i know truster efect and lod's distances are in ship table.
the prob is i cant make a new floder with a new edited ship table becose game crash at start if i do this.
and anyway we cant extract the 3.4 final core it take to many hard drive space.
if this will be corrected in the futur must be change in a relase.
or pple have to unpack the core.
lol i dont know how to use detail box i dont have look for this thing now uhm.
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I mean the smooth shading, ya know: smooth shading vs autofaceted vs faceted shadings
If it isnt in smooth shading as it is then probably the specular maps arent doing their job properly, which makes teh lightning look similar as how it looks like in the old smooth shaded models :)
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I posted a link to the wiki article on detail boxes earlier.
and you can always use a TBM rather than a new TBL (check the wiki).
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NEVER override a core TBL for something as petty as a new ship model. NEVER, NEVER, NEVER! You don't need a new table entry. Just a new model.
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OHh raven i see now what u mean about shine i know yes shine is not showed in all ship part some part is completly black and u dont see shine any more.
this is do from my self some shine part is completly black becose if i let the shine go on every ship part u see face shine default from FS2 engine.
Smooth from FS2 is really ugly need to many poly's to have a good result but if u draw a shine map on some part completly black the shine is fully hide. i have do this to have a beter shine & smooth result in game.
andrew ? yes sure dont need change ship tbl but ah what is the another way to replace the litle truster effect and the distance lod's. i want to know tks.
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The entire team has done an absolutly WONDERFUL job on this mod, it really is commendable, and I want to make certain that no team member feels I am putting down their work, because really, it's awesome, and I have no delusions that I could do as good.
That said, I must agree that there are times I feel that the restrictions are too tight, this is 2007, and a budget system of about 500$ nets you dual core processors and 512MB High powered graphics cards (I know, I just built my new PC).
A few hundred thousand polies on the screen is nothing nowadays, a few million is acceptible by todays standards.
Obviously, Poly's alone do NOT make a great model, and amazing things can be done on a very tight budget, in most cases, you won't ever notice the insane little details anyway, especially on fighters. But nonetheless, there are times that I think the Freespace engine can be pushed a little further than it is...
Again, this is by NO MEANS intended to say that the Babylon Project team hasn't done amazing work, I really feel that this is one of the most public mods, and really helped motivate other teams to start bringing our favorite show into the gameing world. It is only to say...I'm not really certain really, aside from the limitations need not be so tight in some cases. LOL
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NEVER override a core TBL for something as petty as a new ship model. NEVER, NEVER, NEVER! You don't need a new table entry. Just a new model.
he want's to change the LOD distances, that seems like a perfectly reasonable thing for a modeler to do.
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it depends on the LOD differences. i recomend you changing them if your LOD1 (second level of deatil) is the origninal starfury, and everything after that is its LODs. you have too add a whole new LOD distance value!
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Hahh cute new i have to change the lod's distance directly on my lod's named 1, 2 & 3 BE sure i will.
but is ever same probleme i have to change i want to change it but every time i read only one thing change it
BUT HOW& WHERE EXACTLY wipout the ship.tbl.
SO i ask me something after that i have probably miss a part on PCS2 to set a new distance on my lod"s well
im not sure to have see something like this in PCS2 or one more time i have probably see it wrong.
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but is ever same probleme i have to change i want to change it but every time i read only one thing change it
BUT HOW& WHERE EXACTLY wipout the ship.tbl.
I could do a ships.tbm (which would only overwirte the given parameters of ships.tbl) for you that would cover the needed changes (and it would not conflict with the TBP install) .. just write me a PM
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filename: EAauroaLOD-shp.tbm
whats in it:
#Ship classes
$Name: EA Auora
+nocreate
$Detail distance: (integer, integer, integer)
$Flags: ( "show ship" ) <- only add this if you have a working cockpit model
$Name: EA Auora Mk. 1
+nocreate
$Detail distance: (integer, integer, integer)
$Flags: ( "show ship" ) <- only add this if you have a working cockpit model
#End
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now add the corrected entires for the maneuver thrusters please :drevil:
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bigoudi can do that. just change the oords-using model view to place temporary gunpoints where you want to put a thruster, and use those coords. then, after modifying the origninal data, copy all the $thruster entries too the .tbm.
the ones that specify regular thrusters arent needed, you only change the ones with coordinates.
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Uahmumm omg give me a gun i shot me my self.
im only a poor modeler nothing else :shaking:
well maybe 0rph3u5 if u make me a ship.tbm i want to look at it to try this.
akenbosch tks really good tutorial on the first post but on segond post im a bit lost
yes dont forgot im french my english is limited i need really a good unpack tutorial to uderstand all on this thing.
but tks to help me in my ship quest ^^.
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you wont need to mess with manuevering thrusters that much if its too-scale with the orignal.
but heres a simpler explanation for the mauevering thrusters
1: open up the ships.tbl and find things starting with "thruster" in the aura entry. they look like this:
$Thruster:
+Used for: ( "Reverse" "Roll right" "Pitch up" )
+Position: (-4.936 2.293 2.05)
+Normal: (0.0 0.0 1.0)
+Texture: manouver_thruster
+Radius: 0.7
+Length: 1.9
2: now open up the model in modelview and place a gunpoint at the coords defined by the table. move it until its where its supposed to be, and change the +position values to match the moved gunpoint.
3: delete the gunpoint and move on through all the thrusters. check the original auora if you have problems finding where a thruster has to go.
notes: the thruster data in the .pof file (purple triangle things) doesent matter. and neither does the data like $Thruster01 Radius factor: 0.7
$Thruster Bitmap 2a: thrusterflame_blue
$Thruster02 Radius factor: 0.3
$Thruster02 Length factor: 0.7
$Thruster03 Radius factor: 1.4
TBM file stuff
all the new manuevering thruster infor goes directly after the LOD info. both info sets should be the same for auora.pof and auora_line.pof.
so one of the tbm entries should read in this order:
#Ship classes (this is the tbm starting point)
$Name: (this is the name of the ship its modifying
+nocreate (this insures its modifyign something, not creating a new table entry)
$Detail distance: (the distances at which the LODs switch. always start with 0.)
$thruster: (there are many of these little sub-entrys. define manuevering thrusters. x means its a field that should be copyed straight from the original.))
+Used for: x
+Position: (this is the only field you need to modify)
+Normal: x
+Texture: x
+Radius: x
+Length: x
#End (tells the game the table has ended. with -wep.tbm files there can be two "ends". one for primary weapons and one for secondarys.)
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akenbosch really tks for this good unpack tutorial.
but i dont want do anything for now on this ship im now on stand by with this starfury.
just one thing if u want edit this file for me is wellcome but dont need is just a litle ask.
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he want's to change the LOD distances, that seems like a perfectly reasonable thing for a modeler to do.
Why is his Star Fury enormously bigger than the old one? Possibly dreadnaught sized? Or maybe a piece of nanotechnology? Because a change in scale is the only reason I see for overriding the existing Star Fury's perfectly distance/size weighted LODs. Now stop disagreeing with me for the sake of it :P.
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LOD distance is based on polycount. The new Aurora has a higher polycount, thus he wants shorter LOD distances.
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And what's the point of having a higher poly model if you only see it at a distance of 10ft? And any distance past that it's replaced by a frickin' cube? Has everyone here had their brains removed or what? :wtf:
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actualy, its replaced by one with 10000 less polys that still loooks just as good, save a few missing struts.
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And what's the point of having a higher poly model if you only see it at a distance of 10ft? And any distance past that it's replaced by a frickin' cube? Has everyone here had their brains removed or what? :wtf:
The idea is having an EXTREMELY high poly model for way up close, and a still high-poly but not insane model for moderate distances, and a low-poly model at a range of thousands of meters.
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Oh right. Well that's okay then. Stupidity is definitely a good reason to override the existing table entry. I really should stay out of this thread. I lost 10 sanity points just reading the title.
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what about manuevering thrusters?
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Hi there i am that guy i have modeling the starfury 10 year ago and more, in the past someone as ask me if he can use my model but some day after i want to say yes to him i got my hotmail account hacked becose old steam account was lost in same time. I have today look some vidéo at youtube from this old project TBP 5 and i remember 10 year ago the lead of the project dont want use my ship becose is to many poly's for the game engine and the hardware at this time. So happy to see my model was finaly use in this mod is perhaps the only thing i have done and finish to use in 3D so happy to see my model was finaly approved. I remember me someone have ask me ask me 10 year ago if i can upload all of my the model and texture to use it sadly never upload it i dont noe TBP is perhaps done and no one work on it any more but if someone need anything of the starfury i have done so long time ago i have hold anything if is need. Thanks.
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hi there! congratulations for the work! really nice model.
Would be nice to have the original model, maybe in the future could be add the interior cockpit.
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Hi and welcome back,
I remember making your model into a plug-and-play ready ressource for other modders way back then (just added that little table magic, that's all); but I had a slightly different version that the one that is in use in TBP today (which was way more smooth which contributed the high poly count). I might also not have been the last one to contact you, as the Aurora model in TBP today is not 100 percent the one I packaged with tables back in the day - someone did make some alterations to make it more game-ready.
The textures are still 100 percent yours and we are all better for it - seriously, those textures are really good to work with to make customized textures :yes:
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Thanks for reply ok apparently my model is not the official one but this pple have do vidéo from TBP using it and is very early video in youtube so i have mean it is (i see the ship has lost the level of shading i have do in 3DS light on poly's is completly flat perhaps this thing was lost during some oder soft exporting). I see the truster point was correctly replaced that thing was never correctly done by me never noe how to do it in 3DSmax. I remember me the max poly's for a little fighter ship in FS2 was 2500 perhaps this count can be higher today so i have make the max possible detail and stay in range 2400/ 2500 poly's some little detail can be add to be more immersive at the back of the ship, very little optimised modul can be add and stay in 2500 poly's for now the back is completly flat with a simple texture. Yes the texture was download from some offcial babylone movie modeler so the original defining and size was very good to operate with. well ok i will try to re install some graphique tools and 3dsmax to see how to pack that all thing but not now now. One last thing i dont see any way to uplaod any file on the forum perhaps be mail ? let me noe how and which pple want it. Thanks.
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The limits for polycounts are pretty much a thing of the past, as long as you make good LODs; there are some fighters with 20k or 25k polies and 4k (4096) maps now.
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Ok thanks to help me so long time dont have my hand's on that all thing's. I have install knossos and want to see with my eyes if is my ship or not, and it is modeling and texturing exactly 101% happy to see that once again. But so many thing as perhaps change for texture converting TGA to DDS i have keep old thing for that with old photoshop realase but i thing is beter way to do it today but with what i dont noe. Any way i have take a look at the ship and is one stronly new glossy effect on it, it break all of the texture work i think everything is to do again becose the dark part i have do 10 year ago is no need anymore or i have to make some else part darker too perhaps one map is missing in the engine at this time do not include that kind of glossy white shine effect on the ship. Ok so i dont noe if i will find the time and the motivation to hand that thing again but if is not anymore poly's count limit if i work again on it everything will be do again from start. But for me same problems stay is that truster thing's in 3DSmax. I give you new if i start something about that thanks again.