Hard Light Productions Forums

General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: nubbles526 on June 17, 2007, 10:01:32 am

Title: DDS. problem
Post by: nubbles526 on June 17, 2007, 10:01:32 am
I'm trying to get my hands on them Axem's model (Cretheus and Lamia, and trust me, they are beautiful from the screenies) The only flaw is the DDS. maps. They don't work. I know they worked before on my old PC. But why not anymore? In missions, it just displays surface mode.

What's going wrong?
Title: Re: DDS. problem
Post by: Snail on June 17, 2007, 10:10:40 am
Does it work in-game?
Title: Re: DDS. problem
Post by: nubbles526 on June 17, 2007, 10:12:51 am
Does it work in-game?

Well the model is there but with no texture, no glow maps, no shine maps, no whatsoever. Just dull grey surface
Title: Re: DDS. problem
Post by: Topgun on June 18, 2007, 03:20:37 pm
whats your graphics card?
Title: Re: DDS. problem
Post by: nubbles526 on June 21, 2007, 11:40:13 am
Nvidia geforce fx 5200 256MB
Title: Re: DDS. problem
Post by: Topgun on June 21, 2007, 12:21:25 pm
Nvidia geforce fx 5200 256MB

That might be it, I don't think that card can use DDS files. you can convert them to TGA though.
Title: Re: DDS. problem
Post by: Mustang19 on June 21, 2007, 12:23:39 pm
Interesting. I haven't been able to play WCP, BTRL, etc. simply because my card doesn't like DDS. So what, you just go into Gimp and convert them to TGA?
Title: Re: DDS. problem
Post by: Topgun on June 21, 2007, 12:24:49 pm
No, gimp won't do it, I use DDS Converter 2. Google it.
Title: Re: DDS. problem
Post by: Mustang19 on June 21, 2007, 12:28:42 pm
Awwwriiight....  :cool:

Thanks a ton, Topgun, I can finally use those hundreds of MB of DDSes I have on my hard drive.
Title: Re: DDS. problem
Post by: Herra Tohtori on June 21, 2007, 12:31:06 pm
GIMP will do it with DDS plugin (http://registry.gimp.org/plugin?id=4816) installed... it'll enable read/write capabilities for DDS textures, but the saving options are a bit limited IMHO. Obviously you only need to be able to open the DDS images and save them as TGA, so GIMP DDS plugin's limitations wouldn't matter for you. It's just a matter of convenience what program you want to use.

You can use nvDXT as well if you wish, I find it extremely handy at batch converting multiple images to or from DDS format.
Title: Re: DDS. problem
Post by: Topgun on June 21, 2007, 12:34:21 pm
GIMP will do it with DDS plugin (http://registry.gimp.org/plugin?id=4816) installed... it'll enable read/write capabilities for DDS textures, but the saving options are a bit limited IMHO. Obviously you only need to be able to open the DDS images and save them as TGA, so GIMP DDS plugin's limitations wouldn't matter for you. It's just a matter of convenience what program you want to use.

You can use nvDXT as well if you wish, I find it extremely handy at batch converting multiple images to or from DDS format.

GIMP sucks at batch convert.
Title: Re: DDS. problem
Post by: Wanderer on June 21, 2007, 01:16:46 pm
:wtf:

Videocard that cant handle dds textures? How did you ever manage to play the FS in the first place as AFAIK all the textures are converted into DDS anyway?

How ancient driver are you using?
Title: Re: DDS. problem
Post by: Topgun on June 21, 2007, 01:18:59 pm
:wtf:
How did you ever manage to play the FS in the first place as AFAIK all the textures are converted into DDS anyway?

I think that only hapens if you put on the command line to do that.
Title: Re: DDS. problem
Post by: Mustang19 on June 21, 2007, 01:48:52 pm
Quote
How ancient driver are you using?

It's an Intel. That says it all.  :nervous:
Title: Re: DDS. problem
Post by: Mr_Maniac on June 21, 2007, 02:27:13 pm
AFAIK, ALL GeForce Cards are supporting Texture-Compressing and so, they support DDS-Files.
I've played FSO for a long time with my old GeForce 3 and it worked with Texture Compression (-img2dds).
So I don't think that the card should be the problem...
What driver do you have installed? Is the Chipset Driver installed (if one is needed)?
Title: Re: DDS. problem
Post by: Mustang19 on June 21, 2007, 02:42:18 pm
Intel 825-something. Integrated graphics card. Don't know exactly what driver I have, but I looked on the website and it's the latest. What's with this GeForce thing? I have an intel card.
Title: Re: DDS. problem
Post by: Wanderer on June 21, 2007, 03:21:19 pm
IGP issues are often different... As your graphics 'card' uses the same memory as the rest of the cpu. Make sure you have nothing memory intensive running while trying to run the game.
Title: Re: DDS. problem
Post by: Mustang19 on June 21, 2007, 03:22:57 pm
It's not a matter of CTDs or framerate. The game runs fine, the DDS textures simply don't show. Irfanview won't view them either.
Title: Re: DDS. problem
Post by: Topgun on June 21, 2007, 03:23:55 pm
I thought only Geforce 6k and up could use dds...

EDIT: try using xnview. if you can see them with that I might be right.
Title: Re: DDS. problem
Post by: Mustang19 on June 21, 2007, 03:27:13 pm
Right. I'll try XnView when I get home, thanks for the TGA conversion idea regardless.
Title: Re: DDS. problem
Post by: Wanderer on June 21, 2007, 03:27:28 pm
Just a check.. you did install the Irfanview plugin pack which enables DDS support too?
Title: Re: DDS. problem
Post by: taylor on June 21, 2007, 03:48:20 pm
I thought only Geforce 6k and up could use dds...
No, even the old TNT cards can use DDS.  All that's needed is support for the extension in the drivers, it's not really hardware specific.  About the only time that you don't get support for compressed DDS is when the driver maker couldn't, or didn't want to, pay the required license fees for the compression IP.
Title: Re: DDS. problem
Post by: Mustang19 on June 21, 2007, 03:58:12 pm
Hmmm... don't remember installing any IrfanView plugins. But why would that prevent DDS textures from appearing in the game?
Title: Re: DDS. problem
Post by: Mr_Maniac on June 22, 2007, 03:52:30 am
@taylor: Sure that the TNT can use DDS?
Okay... Maybe Software-Driven (I don't know how to call it)... But AFAIK the Graphics-Card itself can't handle them. But GeForce cards DO have support for compressed textures, AFAIK...
(More precisely - out of my mind, so it can be wrong: nVidia-Cards before the GeForce Series shouldn't be able to use compressed Textures directly out of memory)...
I just looked into wikipedia, but I didn't find anything about this... But the "Texture Compression" Article only mentions GeForce 1-4 at one point (that they handled some compression methods with "low precision" and that this can cause "banding" on gradients...)
Title: Re: DDS. problem
Post by: taylor on June 22, 2007, 10:00:14 am
@taylor: Sure that the TNT can use DDS?
I remember seeing it before, but it has been a while.  I think that you are right though, it was a software thing, and probably not even on Windows.

From the NVIDIA site it says that the NV1x and above cards supported texture compression, which makes it GeForce 256 (the first of the GeForce line, just after the TNT2) and newer cards.  That is what should support it natively anyway.  And there were of course the S3 cards which were competing with the TNT which did have compression support though (obviously, there is a reason it's called "S3TC" :)).
Title: Re: DDS. problem
Post by: nubbles526 on June 22, 2007, 10:27:27 am
Badly enough, I tried on top graphic cards. Still no DDS. Kind of disappointing, since I bought them tottally new, and spent like 2 days installing them.

Doesn't mattter anymore, I am a bit tired after all this.

But how do work DDS converter 2? I can't press the convert button. Can someone give me a screenshot guide?

And lastly, if DDS takes up more space than pcx or tga, why bother use them?
Title: Re: DDS. problem
Post by: taylor on June 22, 2007, 11:53:58 am
Badly enough, I tried on top graphic cards. Still no DDS. Kind of disappointing, since I bought them tottally new, and spent like 2 days installing them.
Run a debug build and post your fs2_open.log file.  If it's not loading the DDS files for some reason then it will say why in the log.

Quote
And lastly, if DDS takes up more space than pcx or tga, why bother use them?
DDS is at least 1/2 the size of PCX, and between 1/4 and 1/6 the size of TGA.  In other words, if you convert to TGA then it's going to take a minimum of 4 times the amount of memory that it would otherwise.  That's why we use compressed DDS. :)
Title: Re: DDS. problem
Post by: nubbles526 on June 22, 2007, 01:48:12 pm
DDS is at least 1/2 the size of PCX, and between 1/4 and 1/6 the size of TGA.  In other words, if you convert to TGA then it's going to take a minimum of 4 times the amount of memory that it would otherwise.  That's why we use compressed DDS. :)
[/quote]

But the modder must know that not all GFX cards can run them...and my hard drive is 275GB, only used 75GB :ick:

Anyways, gonna try debug
Title: Re: DDS. problem
Post by: taylor on June 22, 2007, 01:59:18 pm
But the modder must know that not all GFX cards can run them...and my hard drive is 275GB, only used 75GB :ick:
It has nothing to do with hard drive space, it's memory usage that's important.  Using uncompressed textures for something like the mediavps would likely require a video card with at least 512meg of video memory, and probably more.

And any video card that can handle FSO should be able to handle compressed DDS.  It's more likely that you'll have a video card that supports compressed DDS, but can't run FSO.  This isn't some new technology, it's something like 8-9 years old now, and in wide-spread use.  And every GeForce series card has support for compressed DDS, so your video card is more than capable of using them.
Title: Re: DDS. problem
Post by: nubbles526 on June 22, 2007, 02:34:46 pm
But the modder must know that not all GFX cards can run them...and my hard drive is 275GB, only used 75GB :ick:
It has nothing to do with hard drive space, it's memory usage that's important.  Using uncompressed textures for something like the mediavps would likely require a video card with at least 512meg of video memory, and probably more.

And any video card that can handle FSO should be able to handle compressed DDS.  It's more likely that you'll have a video card that supports compressed DDS, but can't run FSO.  This isn't some new technology, it's something like 8-9 years old now, and in wide-spread use.  And every GeForce series card has support for compressed DDS, so your video card is more than capable of using them.


I see where you're getting to alright...

And my Fs_open 3.6.9 debug just keeps crashing. With and without dds.

But the good news is, it works inside no debug. Full textures now. My friend just turned on a command saying "Accept DDS". However, this code didn't come into account with FREDOpen.

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