Hard Light Productions Forums
General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: wtf_cl0vvn on July 03, 2007, 02:48:17 pm
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I was recently wondering about the culture of humans in the GTA/GTVA...it's never explored much in game.
We CAN make a few inferences: rough equality of the sexes (female pilots and admirals [shima]), and some degree of xenophobia, probably inspired by three interstellar wars with alien races.
Anything else I've missed/your conjecture?
The whole idea sort of came up when i daydreamed about video games --> movies, and thought about FS as a movie.
For sure they drink Bosch Beer. Especially in Polaris :)
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We CAN make a few inferences: rough equality of the sexes (female pilots and admirals [shima])
Female admirals and pilots has nothing to do with sexism, it's all capability. Or at least that's what you would think.
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There's been a few of these threads in the past. They never really came to a conclusion, as :v: never bothered to make a really detailed future society. From what we can glean, Terran society in the 24th century is exactly like modern human society. They wear the same clothes, use the same phrases, go to school ("you've all heard about the McCarthy trials in school"), have the same economic/political system, and talk the same language. The FS1 tech description says that Terran society is based on Greek philosophy, but I don't know what that means unless the GTA was some kind of eutopian society, which doesn't seem to be the case. The only difference between FS and RL is that something happened to all the non-white non-Americans. But that's like asking why all the crew of the rebel base in SW Ep IV look like middle-aged British extras.
And I don't see the sexes as "equal" in FS if you're talking about the military alone. The majority of the important command positions are held by old males, a few attractive young females hold low- and mid-level positions. Basically like all SciFi. Personally, I doubt that there will be need for a "male/female" distinction in the 24th century. Comparing mainstream SciFi to reality will (usually) not get you very far.
You're not going to get much done by analyzing FS in terms of culture. The point of FS is the story, and :v: left everything else to your imagination, if you're so inclined.
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Most of the ships had male captains, but a few had female captains such as the Bastion and that one ship that almost got vaporized by the Sathanas on the mission where you have to take out its beam turrets. I assume that most of the military consists of men since they are more likely to sign up while a fewer number of women sign up as well. I would say the ratio of men to women in the GTA/GTVA would be somewhere around 5:1 or 6:1. There was also a female operator on the GTI Arcadia in Ross 128. I don't think I've ever seen a female Vasudan.
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I'd think that FS Terran culture is similar to Terran culture in battlestar galactica--men and women hold important positions, though men still generally outnumber the women. In both, we are pretty much damn-afraid of our enemy and trying to survive long enough to win. Now, for GTA military-forces, I'd guess it's about a 4:1 ratio (20% women, 80% men). Most of the women would be less-likely to be serving in front-lines situations, due to stresses that they can't handle as well. For pilots, the women have to be fairly more in-shape then the average. For commanding officers, they'll probably be few and far between because men have a nasty habit of making passes at women under them. Still, women probably have a good 2:3 ratio (40+% women, 60-% men) in the non-fighting areas such as the science portion of the GTA. For female vasudans... we really can't tell by voice or by look. From what I've seen, Vasudan faces are very similar and we have only seen them from shoulders-up in command anis (and they're wearing jumpsuits and likely some upper-body braces). They speak to us using a translator, so we have no masculine/feminine differences in speech. They are supposed to be ultra-traditionalist and complex--that leads me to believe that they likely have similar or the same speech patterns as male Vasudans.
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I always thought the second Vasudan persona was... Female?
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Female? Male? For all we know they could have anywhere from 1 to 23 different genders. Primates are only male/female because of a similar genetic heritage, like all Earth animals. No reason why Vasudans would have a similar dialetic. For all we know, the deep voice Vasudans could be female and the high-pitched voices are male.
I don't think I've ever seen a female Vasudan.
Never seen Ms Vasuda Prime?
Oh.... you don't want to. :shaking:
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Most of the ships had male captains, but a few had female captains such as the Bastion and that one ship that almost got vaporized by the Sathanas on the mission where you have to take out its beam turrets. I assume that most of the military consists of men since they are more likely to sign up while a fewer number of women sign up as well. I would say the ratio of men to women in the GTA/GTVA would be somewhere around 5:1 or 6:1. There was also a female operator on the GTI Arcadia in Ross 128. I don't think I've ever seen a female Vasudan.
Also Don't Forget The Rampart.
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And I don't see the sexes as "equal" in FS if you're talking about the military alone. The majority of the important command positions are held by old males, a few attractive young females hold low- and mid-level positions. Basically like all SciFi. Personally, I doubt that there will be need for a "male/female" distinction in the 24th century. Comparing mainstream SciFi to reality will (usually) not get you very far.
For the gender's role in the military to be equalized, the promotions and stuff like that have to be purely based on capability. It doesn't matter how many of either gender there is.
Sexism in this case would be: "Oh, hello generic female name. You have awesome records, but you're gonna have to wait until we can get another male to join so we can even out the numbers. Ta!" or "Oh, hello generic female name. You have awesome records, but you're not allowed in because I hate girls! Ta!"
Not sexisim would be: "Oh, hello generic female name. According to the stats, you beat generic male name, generic male name2, generic male name3, and generic male name4 in the areas of reflexes, kills, leadership, following orders, etc. Congrats on becoming a pilot!"
You see? Even if there were no females at all, they wouldn't be pilots because they suck at it, not because they're female.
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I've seen The Atrocity... I've never clearly seen a FS1/FS1:ST/FS2 female Vasudan. Likely that they are around, just look similar.
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I swear one of the Vasudan pilots is female...
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Yeah, in the mission where you destroy the Knossos.
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Well, one of the (vas) voices sounds feminine...however no one refers to anyone by gender really (among generic pilots and the like).
By rough equality I mean that anyone can really join...of course less women will be in the armed forces, because men can't have babies. thats a biological necessity.
Fleet admirals seem of varied sexes.
Squadron leaders, pilots, ship captains...that sort of thing.
There are african american pilots, as well as hispanics, if you look at the barracks avatars.
And of course the ubiquitous command guy.
In regards to religion, do they appear to have any? Of course the vasudans have their religious beliefs, but terrans seem to not anymore. They do say "Oh my god" but that's entered into common usage really. as has "jesus christ". godspeed as well.
They never refer to civilians or civilian outcries or anything do they? i know that they are exodus'd out of capella....but otherwise i have no idea. Corporations still make ships, and economical considerations appear to hinder them, so i guess they have some sort of free-market or at least socialist system. Is the GTVA the political leadership as well?
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With regards to culture...
The writers of FS were Americans. That tends to give just about anyone an Amerocentric view of culture in general, whether they realize this or not. (I include myself in this; behind the scenes I've been trying to counteract it as much as possible.)
It's the same reason you never see any Sikhs on Star Trek.
The creators, if they noticed it at all, probably figured that the target audience (i.e. American/European males) wouldn't care.
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But we do care, enough to discuss about it 8 years after the game was made. The FS universe is quite interesting, it really feels like what our future may be like.
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You know what would be nasty ?!?!? (And expected of male species) If a vasudan male mated with a terran women (or terran male with a vasudan woman)
IMAGINE THE OFFSPRING ?!?! :eek2: :eek: :wtf:
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:wtf: i don't think thats possible
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*facepalms*
There wouldn't be one. Incompatible chromosomes/sex cells/genomes etc.
Although there is that one pic... and I don't mean the Vasudan pin-up girl.
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*facepalms*
There wouldn't be one. Incompatible chromosomes/sex cells/genomes etc.
Although there is that one pic... and I don't mean the Vasudan pin-up girl.
hyperlink!
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Here we go:
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,33461.0.html (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,33461.0.html)
CAUTION THIS LINK MY RESULT IN EXTREME EYE DAMAGE!!!
READ WITH CAUTION!
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Here we go:
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,33461.0.html (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,33461.0.html)
CAUTION THIS LINK MY RESULT IN EXTREME EYE DAMAGE!!!
READ WITH CAUTION!
not the vasudan chick, seen that. The vasudan / terran baby! I wanna see that! :lol:
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Basically, all human culture in sci-fi is simply present-day culture with advanced technology. Very few writers (none that I can think of offhand, with the possible exception of Orson Scott Card) have made any attempt to forecast future trends. Even past trends are pretty unfamiliar to a lot of people. Read a book written in the 18th or 19th century; you may be surprised at the number of customs and social mores that are different, even foreign.
It's a shame really. It would be interesting to see what sorts of things people come up with. Fortunately the fantasy writers are a little more adventurous (no pun intended) in this regard.
The chance of human culture in the 24th century turning out as presented in FreeSpace is practically nil. For one thing, a war with an alien species, with regular casualties, extending over 14 years (more than half a generation) with no end in sight, would trigger a massive campaign to have Terran women stay on Earth and have babies. It's a simple biological imperative.
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After the 14 Year War, the Great War, the NTF Rebellion and the Second Great War, I'd imagine the GTVA to be quite a militarized society. I imagine that some form of a national service program was initiated during the 14 Year War by both the Terrans and Vasudans separately and then continued under the GTVA - with things like mandatory military or national service for a few years during peacetime. Considering the nature of the GTA and GTVA though, and the tendency for societies to become more liberal over time, it's really unpredictable.
Quite frankly I worry that after FS2, you might see a more nationalistic, Fascist-style corporate state ideology take hold. So much war and death over generations is a breeding groudn for that stuff.
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Ender's Game rules.
Just to clarify :P
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There are billion of Terrans living on colonies all over GTA space. A few million lost in wars isn't gonna determine anything. Besides, only officers can fly meaning only a small portion of civilians are actually risking their lives in the military. Aside from the marines/soldiers/ground forces, I wouldn't expect alot of casualties. There was even a female marine in the boarding party on the boarding party cutscene from FS1. The lost of a planet is a great lost, losing a destroyer isn't going to effect your population much.
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The lost of a planet is a great lost, losing a destroyer isn't going to effect your population much.
But what if that destroyer is essential to a planet's defense? :p
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Casualties matter less than duration and legitimacy of the conflict. In Vietnam as in Iraq, a fraction of the US' population was lost, but the length and nature of the wars made them extremely unpopular and led to huge political and social shifts at home. There are coutnless other examples in history of low-casualty wars having huge ramifications. And don't think casualties would necessarily be minimal. As Swantz said, a loss in space over a populated planet could mean a bitter ground battle with modern, deadly weapons.
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Basically, all human culture in sci-fi is simply present-day culture with advanced technology. Very few writers (none that I can think of offhand, with the possible exception of Orson Scott Card) have made any attempt to forecast future trends. Even past trends are pretty unfamiliar to a lot of people. Read a book written in the 18th or 19th century; you may be surprised at the number of customs and social mores that are different, even foreign.
It's a shame really. It would be interesting to see what sorts of things people come up with. Fortunately the fantasy writers are a little more adventurous (no pun intended) in this regard.
The chance of human culture in the 24th century turning out as presented in FreeSpace is practically nil. For one thing, a war with an alien species, with regular casualties, extending over 14 years (more than half a generation) with no end in sight, would trigger a massive campaign to have Terran women stay on Earth and have babies. It's a simple biological imperative.
I allways figured human culture would move towards simplicity... and it's quite simple today..mostly..
So I see nothing wrong with the future human culture being very similar to what we have today..
Do you really see us getting devided into castes or some other ****z like that? After we experienced "democracy"?
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Do you really see us getting devided into castes or some other ****z like that? After we experienced "democracy"?
*looks around*
While everyone praises Karajorma? Yep.
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There are billion of Terrans living on colonies all over GTA space.
No there aren't. According to the FS Ref bible, subspace was discovered only a few years before the T-V war. In FS2, Capella was described as "densely populated", despite only having 250 million civilians, less than the population of the USA. The majority of humanity is probably still stuck in the Sol system.
And yes, millions of casualties -- no matter how large the total population -- will have a significant political and psychological impact.
I allways figured human culture would move towards simplicity... and it's quite simple today..mostly..
So I see nothing wrong with the future human culture being very similar to what we have today..
It is far from simple today. "Simple" is a nomadic hunter-gatherer society. Human culture today is quite complex. Look at all the laws and regulations on the books, for example.
And if you think human culture in 400 years is going to be very similar to what we have today, then I highly recommend that you drop what you're doing and brush up on your history. Or go read a book, as Petrarch says.
Do you really see us getting devided into castes or some other ****z like that? After we experienced "democracy"?
I hadn't considered castes, but you're probably right about that. Certainly American culture is proceeding towards increasing class division, which is just the modern day equivalent of castes.
And democracy is not a silver bullet. When the morons outnumber the intelligent and every moron can vote, and when electronic voting machines have no paper trail, the system is ripe -- rotten, even -- for abuse.
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In the future, everyone wears funny hats.
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Damn right.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/NarfPics/pimpin.png)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/NarfPics/jollygood.png)
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I allways figured human culture would move towards simplicity... and it's quite simple today..mostly..
So I see nothing wrong with the future human culture being very similar to what we have today..
It is far from simple today. "Simple" is a nomadic hunter-gatherer society. Human culture today is quite complex. Look at all the laws and regulations on the books, for example.
And if you think human culture in 400 years is going to be very similar to what we have today, then I highly recommend that you drop what you're doing and brush up on your history. Or go read a book, as Petrarch says.
True that in the past our culture changed drasticly...but thats becoause we didn't have a single culture, we had thousands of them. Not ot mention humans didn't really know much at that time and religion played a major role in culture..
In the modern world with globalisation and communications the world is becoming a "melting pot" and we can allready see a start of a global culture forming..
Once it's set I doubt any big changes will occur...
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You're assuming that humanity won't colonize other worlds and come up with different cultures there before the homogenization is complete.
Which is probably, unfortunately, a correct assumption, but it's still an assumption.
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Damn right.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/NarfPics/pimpin.png)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/NarfPics/jollygood.png)
You WIN sir.
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There are billion of Terrans living on colonies all over GTA space.
No there aren't. According to the FS Ref bible, subspace was discovered only a few years before the T-V war. In FS2, Capella was described as "densely populated", despite only having 250 million civilians, less than the population of the USA. The majority of humanity is probably still stuck in the Sol system.
I seem to remember reading in the tech room that the Elysium was the original Terran transport, and it was 20 years old at the time of the great war.
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So.... What have the people on Earth been doing all this time? I hope they are building lots of ships.
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The only difference between FS and RL is that something happened to all the non-white non-Americans. But that's like asking why all the crew of the rebel base in SW Ep IV look like middle-aged British extras.
Black Death. II. Caucasians have a genetic advantage, and most other ethnic groups are hit hard. Except for Command. Known for his tactical wisdom, he was immunized and placed in reverse quarantine. You never see anyone else in Command's head ani, because he is locked in a small chamber, surrounded by computers.
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Black Death. II. Caucasians have a genetic advantage, and most other ethnic groups are hit hard. Except for Command. Known for his tactical wisdom, he was immunized and placed in reverse quarantine. You never see anyone else in Command's head ani, because he is locked in a small chamber, surrounded by computers.
It's kind of creepy that I can't refute that. :nervous:
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Caucasians have a genetic advantage
What?
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Caucasians have a genetic advantage
What?
He's talking in specifics. Caucasians could have a genetic advantage when it comes to bubonic plague, just like most people have a genetic advantage to resist diseases that their ancestors came in contact with.
Think about smallpox and the Native Americans. The Africans and Europeans who came over had been dealing with smallpox for quite a while, so they had a genetic advantage compared to the Native Americans, who had never dealt with smallpox. This doesn't mean that the Native Americans were inferior, as there was likely some disease that they had been fighting for many years that could have hit the Europeans pretty hard.
It all balances out. Reading this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_groups_in_biomedicine) may help clear up what I've said. Or it may confuse you more. Your results may vary. (possibly depending on your ancestry :P )
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Besides, not all people in Freespace were caucasians. Command was a black dude. I wonder who did his voice....
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Caucasians have a genetic advantage
What?
Think then post.
He made a joke. Isn't one of the Command Ani's skin dark?
EDIT: Yup!