Hard Light Productions Forums
Community Projects => The FreeSpace Upgrade Project => Topic started by: Snail on July 17, 2007, 04:37:05 pm
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All of our HTL models are great. They're a hundred times more beautiful than the original models, and the detail is stunning. They're beautiful, and I can't disagree with that. However, something has been bothering me for a long time, ever since I downloaded the mv_models pack. Again, they were beautiful, but the thing that bothers me is - they're not stable.
Some of them aren't completely stable and cause problems with fly-through faces, hidden turrets, mesh errors, holes, I can go on for a while. I would compile a list of the offending models, but I don't have the time, at least not today.
What I request is, before anything goes into the MediaVPs, is that it is thoroughly checked for problems, fixed, etc. I don't mind having buggy models in mods too much, but the MediaVPs are an 'official patch' to FS2Open, and if it has bugs in it, then it's as if the official game has bugs in it.
Now, you may be thinking, "shouldn't this be called 'Models Stability?'" Well my answer to that is, not only the models, but also other aspects of the MediaVPs
~Snail, the great lord of the gastropods and molluscs.
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I think DaBrain and a few others are all ready working on that.
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I thought it had to do with bad collision detection. guess not.
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No, it's the fault of the models, not the code. For some of the models, however, making a new collision...thing to make it more stable should be easily accomplished with a simple re-save in the more recent PCS2 builds.
And, as BrotherByron has said, this is already underway. I know that the Aten irritates me with it's weapon collision problems, the Apollo has holes in the back (okay, it's not in the mediavps,eh) I can't recall any big problems with most of the models, though. There are some shine map problems, with the medusa and triton, but I can live with those until the next mediavp release.
What other aspects of the mediavps are unstable? I can't think of any.
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I don't think I have run into these collision issues. Not that I can remember, anyway.
The main problem I have is the lack of insignia data on pretty much all of the current fighter models. That really needs to be added in with the next release.
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IDK if this has much to do with this or not, but I notice, I think it's the glowmaps, are a bit buggy for me. For example, engine glows, or the lights on the side of a diemos (sp) change from visible to invisible and back in sort of a diagnal scanning pattern as my viewpoint changes until I get really close to them. I can take some pics if you like.
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do not use PCS2 for production models unto 2.0 final.. unstable should never be used for stable - for example i just found a corruption-inducing bug in PCS2
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the models in tbp are especially buggy to me. I don't know what the minbari cruisers look like, but it seems to me half of the entire ships are missing since some of the parts of it are floating unattached to the rest of the ship.
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Sounds to me like you might've forgotten to enable -jpgtga in the launcher.
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i guess i did. oh well :rolleyes:
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I don't think I have run into these collision issues. Not that I can remember, anyway.
:wtf: You don't remember the Serapis problem in mission 15 of PI?
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That was only a problem with that particular Serapis, not the original one in the media VPs. I think re-saving that model in Modelview had somehow messed up the BSP data.
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. I did want this version to be fairly stable - I went through every single ship with the lab, in a debug build, so hopefully I got all those annoying debug build errors.
They actually did test it, but not on the points you stated...
I think that kind of testing is the modelers responsibility.
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Never mind what I said before. I think I just ran into this collision problem with the Satis. It seems to have huge "holes" on the sides and is almost impossible to destroy from those angles.
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Hmm... Try the Ares... Taristin made botht he Satis and the Ares so the Ares may have rats on it.
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I noticed a few glitches too...collision detection doesn't allways work right...The stasis for instance...some parts just dont' seem to register being hit (the very rear)
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Interesting, a few of Taristin's models are a bit glitchy. They may need checking.
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Sorry to bump this old topic, but I have another gripe about the high poly models... Some of them don't have the destroyed turret/subsystem submodels, so when you destroy a turret, it just disappears. Could someone go through those models and give them destroyed submodels?
I hope I'm not pissing off anyone here. :nervous:
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It might help if you specified WHICH models ya know :D
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Okay. All of them, except for:
SCv Moloch, GTCv Deimos, GVCv Sobek.
Pretty much ALL of the others have no destroyed submodels.
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I'm pretty sure the HTL Orion and Hecate have destroyed submodels...
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They do. But only for the large turrets.
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i believe only the HTL medusa has an insignia...
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They do. But only for the large turrets.
You want them for every turret? MEh.. the small fry don't need destroyable submodels..
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Why not?
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it looks like retail-magic when the turret just disapears when you destroy it.
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no more than sound in space, blowing up stars or 500m/s lasers...
In fact, the turret could be simply blown off the hull..that explains it nicely...
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But it wouldn't leave a simple tile, would it?
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depends..if a turret was attached to a hull...actually inserted in it (similar to WW2 BIG battleship turrets), then the only thing it would leave would be a perfecly cylindrical hole...and some burnmarks.
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mmm hmm. that would be a destroyed submodel. a cylinder base with burnmarks.
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eeeh...no...the hole would have to be part of the hull mesh...
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with the destroyed submodel being the burning debris. but, since this is in space, the debris cant be burning.
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with the destroyed submodel being the burning debris. but, since this is in space, the debris cant be burning.
When you destroy a turret, there's an explosion, and everything in the explosion gets flash fried for the duration of the explosion. There's your burn marks for you.
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I don't think blowing off a turret would leave a perfectly clean and sparkling hull tile.
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Destroyed submodels for turrets are mind bogglingly impossible to remember come conversion time. I run through a mental checklist each and every time I go to convert, but have never once managed to remember the stupid things - always have to go back and add them afterwards.
The Triton still doesn't have any. :\
BTW, for HTLed ships I'd only add those that were present in the original model. The Lucifer POF for example doesn't have any at all, so neither does the HTL one.
Oh, and it doesn't so much apply for UV mapped ships where the texture beneath the turrets has been suitably blackened. They're still good to have where appropriate though.
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I only do the bigger turrets....but SOMETIMES, when I'm in a hurry I forget to add the destroyed subobjects....case in point - the Tanen and Hedetet...I don't recall putting them in :sigh:
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Well to make the HTL models even better, adding submodels for destroyed things would make them better.
I love blowing up the Hecate's Comm and Navigation systems, and its engines, it's really cool. Only problem that there's no destroyed turret submodels.
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i want destroyed pilot submodels for the cockpits ;7
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And have events to make the AI class of the fighter "none" when the cockpit subsystem is destroyed... :p
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cut all things controlled by the pilot (comm, weapons, nav), and let it drift into space, maintaing whatever speed it was at when the pilot died.
maybe we should have a flag or FRED option for that feature...with the SEXps hardcoded to it. (like all ships beam-fred by default)
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Do destroyed version of subsystems count towards subsystem total????
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Pseudo-back on pseudo-topic, what about this:
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| | <--- original turret.
\ ___ / <--- "hole", with proper textures, that appears when the turret is destroyed.
I can't model, but I think that something like this is possible with object substaction(used in order to create the hole).
Hey, I'm an artist! :lol:
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@Trah: no, submodel total. you can have turret01, and turret01-destryoed. only one is recognized by the game as a subsytem because only one is defined as a subsytem in the table.
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ERmm...No offence akenbosch, but I think I'd like and answer from the Code-Wizzards...since, you know...they know the code like their back pocket... And methinks you got the question wrong.
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i do too, but its the best one i can give after reading the code.
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@Trah: no, submodel total. you can have turret01, and turret01-destryoed. only one is recognized by the game as a subsytem because only one is defined as a subsytem in the table.
The way I see it is that they do count towards the subsystem total, or I may just be trippin'.
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lets ask goober.
goober, do destroyed subsytem models (like turreto1-destroyed), which do not count as subsytems in the pof or table file, count twoards the subsytem total, or the submodel total?
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Some things never change
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There might be something funny going on with the Medusa, but I can't say for certain. Although I have only tested it two or three times, I'm getting the feeling that mission 9 in PI is harder with the media VPs enabled than without them, and this would be the obvious cause. It may explain why some people find it much harder than others.
Has anyone else noticed anything strange with that model?
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Hm...not really....but then again I dont' use the Medusa much. But some models are definetely bugged..
The most heavily bugged one is the Stasis - half it's faces have NO colission detection. I've seen shots and missile go right trough it.. makes those "destroy the convoy" mission awfully difficult to boot!
8 apollos attacking 1 statis...it took them forever to kill it...
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Has anyone else noticed anything strange with that model?
Not really, and I've played around with it quite much. Are you referring to non-solid geometry ?
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Yeah, it seems that they may be harder to kill than usual. I have not actually seen this directly though and the model may well be fine. Just a hunch given what we're seeing with some other models here, like the Satis.