Hard Light Productions Forums
Archived Boards => The Archive => The Unification War => Topic started by: Admiral Nelson on July 17, 2007, 05:22:08 pm
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(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v106/NelsonAndBronte/FS2/Falcons3.jpg)
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let me dance among the stars
too bad we can't have that as in mission music...
I am soooooo glad people are working on this now that ST:R is done.
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It's revived now :eek2:
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Hold on im going to go Screaming down my Street saying IT IS ALIVE!!!!!!!!!!!! :lol:
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Damn this gives me nostalgia from Evangelion...
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I am soooooo glad people are working on this now that ST:R is done.
ST:R is done ?!? I though the whole voice acting thing still needs to be done ?
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it does but the freders and modelers can work on this now. voice acting is easy!
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voice acting is easy!
Hah.
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voice acting is easy!
Not if you want to do it right.
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well it's easy for goober :p
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It may be easy to understand but it's tedious to do. Especially if you want to make sure all the personas and heads are correct.
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YAAAAAY!!! Awaiting this thing EAGERLY!!! :D :D :D :D :D
*Everything except Chapter 1 tough....not too interested in another human rebellion... I need the FS1 atmosphere!
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It's not a human rebellion, it's a human UNIFICATION.
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It's not a human rebellion, it's a human UNIFICATION.
Yeah, but half the colonies rebeled before that.
I HATE that concept with a passion.
Like a space colony could ever really break away from a home planet - like it can ever be self-sufficient enough (where do you grow food on Mars, Moon and Jupiter?) or powerfull enough (industrial base and resources)???
LUV the fighting againt the fisheads tough...bring out the HEADZ!
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Where do you grow food on Mars and Jupiter? Farm habitats. If you can have pressurized housing, you can have pressurized farms, and the asteroid belt provides a tremendous resource base for industry, as many asteroids are made almost entirely of iron and nickel. Although I'd personally like to see actual modern nations appear in the unification war. Who says China or the United States will be gone by 2310?
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Although I'd personally like to see actual modern nations appear in the unification war. Who says China or the United States will be gone by 2310?
Agreed, but this would make things way too complicated. We had to make a number of simplifying associations, or the campaign would never get released.
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Damn this gives me nostalgia from Evangelion...
Gah, don't remind me of that homicide-via-Engrish of a classic song...
Also, that screenshot is made of win.
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Where do you grow food on Mars and Jupiter? Farm habitats. If you can have pressurized housing, you can have pressurized farms, and the asteroid belt provides a tremendous resource base for industry, as many asteroids are made almost entirely of iron and nickel. Although I'd personally like to see actual modern nations appear in the unification war. Who says China or the United States will be gone by 2310?
Earth has several thousand years of head start..not to mention huge areas for farming various crops, seas for fishing and farms for animals...and no pressure domes.
Any colony would be severely limited in what food it can produce on it's own (I don't really see a big meat industry) and it's doubtfull that it can produce enough to sustain BILLIONS of people, not to mantion that domed cities and farms are a hell of a lot more vulnerable than anything on earth..
A single stray shot breaks the dome - *BAM* - there goes the city..or all your crops. Not a side I would choose to be on in case of a war...
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Where do you grow food on Mars and Jupiter? Farm habitats. If you can have pressurized housing, you can have pressurized farms, and the asteroid belt provides a tremendous resource base for industry, as many asteroids are made almost entirely of iron and nickel. Although I'd personally like to see actual modern nations appear in the unification war. Who says China or the United States will be gone by 2310?
Earth has several thousand years of head start..not to mention huge areas for farming various crops, seas for fishing and farms for animals...and no pressure domes.
Any colony would be severely limited in what food it can produce on it's own (I don't really see a big meat industry) and it's doubtfull that it can produce enough to sustain BILLIONS of people, not to mantion that domed cities and farms are a hell of a lot more vulnerable than anything on earth..
A single stray shot breaks the dome - *BAM* - there goes the city..or all your crops. Not a side I would choose to be on in case of a war...
Orbital bombardment seems to be rare or nonexistent in FreeSpace, except for the Lucifer's genocide campaign. Also, many colonies might be backed by Earth nations who might use the colonies in a proxy war. Earth itself is fragmented into many nations. It's not like a few tiny dome cities against an entire planet.
And who even really needs farming? In the 24th century they could probably synthesize mass quantities of food.
FreeSpace wars are largely won by naval power. The asteroid belt has enough metal in it to build a virtually limitless number of ships. If one side has control of space, the other side really can't do anything but hunker down on their planet, because they sure as hell won't be able to fight off the enemy fleet.
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You saying Earth doesn't have a fleet? With all it's industry and resources?
If only 1 fighter made it trough and took a shot - goodbye dome city.
Granted, your'e right that Earth is fragmented, so that complicated things... But I still doubt you can synthesize food..
That would mean direct energy->matter conversion which is WAAAAY over FS2 tech.
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You saying Earth doesn't have a fleet? With all it's industry and resources?
If only 1 fighter made it trough and took a shot - goodbye dome city.
No, that would be a war crime. You do NOT attack civilian populations. The general trend in history has been towards more protection of civilians. What makes you think Earth would bomb a habitat and murder thousands of people?
Granted, your'e right that Earth is fragmented, so that complicated things... But I still doubt you can synthesize food..
That would mean direct energy->matter conversion which is WAAAAY over FS2 tech.
Uh, what energy to matter conversion? You could alter organic compounds into forms that people can eat. This process is how we make plastics, you know--by stringing together organic compounds into polymers.
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Ever thought the dome cities may be made out of something other than glass? Say, Molybdenum or Tungsten Carbide?
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Well, neither of those two materials would allow sunlight in, but the Terrans and Vasudans seem to have developed very strong transparent materials as shooting windows on a Fenris doesn't immediately blow them out.
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Don't need sunlight. Besides, sunlight would be far too hot in some instances, like on the Moon or on Mars where there's no atmosphere to stop the UV rays and whatever.
These domes would be much more sturdy than what TrashMan thinks.
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No, that would be a war crime. You do NOT attack civilian populations. The general trend in history has been towards more protection of civilians. What makes you think Earth would bomb a habitat and murder thousands of people?
You don't have the shoot the city..you cna shoot the dome that hold the manufacturing plants...or organics farms. Force them to surrender by destroying their food and resources...
Uh, what energy to matter conversion? You could alter organic compounds into forms that people can eat. This process is how we make plastics, you know--by stringing together organic compounds into polymers.
Still you'd first need a whole LOT of organic materials... Doubt that would be enough ot feed them all...especialyl it wouldn't be enough to keep htem happy when they have to eat some tastless paste while ppl on Earth eat REAL food.
Don't need sunlight. Besides, sunlight would be far too hot in some instances, like on the Moon or on Mars where there's no atmosphere to stop the UV rays and whatever.
These domes would be much more sturdy than what TrashMan thinks.
Maby...but still much more vulnerable than any city or structure on Earth. Even a small crack can depressurize the whole thing.
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No, that would be a war crime. You do NOT attack civilian populations. The general trend in history has been towards more protection of civilians. What makes you think Earth would bomb a habitat and murder thousands of people?
You don't have the shoot the city..you cna shoot the dome that hold the manufacturing plants...or organics farms. Force them to surrender by destroying their food and resources...
Mix different purposes together to make it impossible to launch strikes without causing unacceptable civilian casualties, and intercept the Earth fleets before they reach your cities. The United States has been defeated by militarily far weaker powers like Vietnam because those powers made the political consequences of continuing the war not worth it.
Still you'd first need a whole LOT of organic materials... Doubt that would be enough ot feed them all...especialyl it wouldn't be enough to keep htem happy when they have to eat some tastless paste while ppl on Earth eat REAL food.
Astronauts can tolerate nasty preprepared food. People can tolerate many things if there are no alternatives. What are you going to do, starve? Commit treason?
Maby...but still much more vulnerable than any city or structure on Earth. Even a small crack can depressurize the whole thing.
An armored dome would be far, far less vulnerable than an Earth city, as traditional cities are composed of unarmored buildings while the theoretical armored dome would be built to withstand bombardment, like ships are. The ships would have to batter on these armored domes while taking fire from the colonial fleet, orbital weapons platforms, surface-to-space missiles, bombers, etc. Also, air would leak out of a tiny crack in such a large space relatively slowly, giving them time to patch the dome before all the air gets out.
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Some of the colonies have more access to raw hydrogen... without expending their water supply.
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Colonies on Mars and the moons of Jupiter and elsewhere will most likely HAVE to be self-sustaining. Shipping food from Earth to Mars could take as little as 6-9 months or as long as a couple of years (before the invention of subspace flight, so hang on a second). In the end, these colonies would develop their own ways of production of materials and food. The moon is more of an issues since it is right next door, but why shouldn't it use the advances on the other colonies to make itself self-subistant?
So not only would these colonies develop reasonably independent economies, but also independent political systems. As Earth tries to enforce it's dominance over these colonies, they basically tell the Earthers to bug off, and the revolutions start. Subspace brings everyone much closer, so the fighting gets more intense. The Unification War is the final result.
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The greatest advantage of the asteroids and the Jupiter belt is, they aren't sitting at the bottom of a gravity well - taking stuff up into orbit takes a lot of resources.
IMHO it's more likely that stuff will be imported from the belts, as it virtually doesn't need any fuel - you just nudge them in the direction of Earth and let gravity of Sol take care of the rest.
...and as Eisthmo said: they HAVE to be self sufficient, as exporting things out there takes a lot of money.
Micro electronics, nanotechnology, genetic material, information - probably done.
Raw materials, heavy machinery? Not likely.
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The greatest advantage of the asteroids and the Jupiter belt is, they aren't sitting at the bottom of a gravity well - taking stuff up into orbit takes a lot of resources.
IMHO it's more likely that stuff will be imported from the belts, as it virtually doesn't need any fuel - you just nudge them in the direction of Earth and let gravity of Sol take care of the rest.
...and as Eisthmo said: they HAVE to be self sufficient, as exporting things out there takes a lot of money.
Micro electronics, nanotechnology, genetic material, information - probably done.
Raw materials, heavy machinery? Not likely.
It takes a lot of money NOW...but we're talking about a future where making colonies and sending MILLIONS of people in space if very common, so in comparison the price of transporting other stuff should be low too.
Allright, to you having fully self-sustaining colonies this early in FS universe and on non-terrestrial planets sounds perfectly belivable? Fine...
To me it sound like a fairy tale. :p
But this discussion ir really useless nayway....better to waste energy on making the campaign than replaying here :lol:
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Allright, to you having fully self-sustaining colonies this early in FS universe and on non-terrestrial planets sounds perfectly belivable? Fine...
To me it sound like a fairy tale. :p
Why?
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I'd like to know as well.
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Thirded. :P
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look at the ad on this topic *lol'els*.
and no, they will not be self sustaining.
EDIT: I got sugerdaddy.com
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Where do you grow food on Mars and Jupiter?
Where do you do anything on Jupiter? :wtf:
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Jupiter is a Gas Giant.Made of ****ing gas.It cannot be colinized.
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Where do you grow food on Mars and Jupiter?
Where do you do anything on Jupiter? :wtf:
Nobody remembers the palm tree filled floating continent (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-ndkJ9WKDs) on Jupiter? :)
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Why?
Becouse so many people (I belive it's said that the population on colonies is the same or bigger than opulation on Earth) require MASSIVE ammounts of food. Abslutely massive!
It's hard to produce that much food even on Earth and its HUGE farms..let alone in some bio-dome on Mars or Pluto...
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Hmmm... True...
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Where do you grow food on Mars and Jupiter?
Where do you do anything on Jupiter? :wtf:
You do things on its moons, it has 18 of the damn things, some of which are the size of Mars.
Why?
Becouse so many people (I belive it's said that the population on colonies is the same or bigger than opulation on Earth) require MASSIVE ammounts of food. Abslutely massive!
It's hard to produce that much food even on Earth and its HUGE farms..let alone in some bio-dome on Mars or Pluto...
People need massive amounts of the foods we find in supermarkets. You could synthesize MRE-type food and feed people with several times less volume of food, because it has far more calorie density. The average soldier eats over 3,000 calories a day. Do you think he has a great big feast to get those calories? No, he eats food out of little MRE packets that contain an obscene amount of nutrients and energy.
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Pray tell, explain how that synthetization process goes...
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Pray tell, how does subspace work? Why is the ML-16 laser a white blob? How does the artificial gravity work? How do beam cannons work? Why do the fighters turn like airplanes? How do FS hull materials withstand gigaton torpedoes?
I think you get the point now.
Also:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic_biology
And NASA did an experiment with synthetic food (http://davidszondy.com/future/Living/synthetic_food.htm) in 1965. The food was terrible, but it was nutritious, and I'm sure the GTA could do better than that after 350 years. In fact, that page even tells you how to make it.
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Interesting..once CAN use synthetic food but that is costly and time consuming...not to mention that you have to have large quantites of various chemichals compounds.. and I doubt you can find all of them readily available on the Moon or Mars. All planets don't have the same composition..nor does the atmosphere (or lack thereof).
You could import the needed chemichals tough, probably from a friendly colony (assuming it has enough or at all)
That said my concern was about such a large population. Feeding millions that way is a big problem.
And one more thing...couldn't you just trash any moon colony from Earth? We can shoot lasers at the Moon with 1m precision today, hell in 300 years you could make a hole in a structure/dome without any problems.
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Yeah, the moon is dead from Earth IMO.
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Interesting..once CAN use synthetic food but that is costly and time consuming...not to mention that you have to have large quantites of various chemichals compounds.. and I doubt you can find all of them readily available on the Moon or Mars. All planets don't have the same composition..nor does the atmosphere (or lack thereof).
You could import the needed chemichals tough, probably from a friendly colony (assuming it has enough or at all)
That said my concern was about such a large population. Feeding millions that way is a big problem.
And one more thing...couldn't you just trash any moon colony from Earth? We can shoot lasers at the Moon with 1m precision today, hell in 300 years you could make a hole in a structure/dome without any problems.
Lasers obey the inverse square law. The yield of a laser dissipates to the square of the distance to the target, which means that you won't be delivering much energy to the Moon (the same goes for particle beams). Firing weapons at such ranges would be useless.
Also, attacking a colony, especially with the kind of weapons of mass destruction you'd need to pierce an armored colony dome, would be a serious war crime and political suicide. To take the colony, you would have to land troops on the surface, invade the colony, and physically occupy it. All the while they're fighting back with ships, plasma turrets, missiles, lasers, etc.
The Moon doesn't strike me as a good place to have a rebellious colony. Mars, the asteroid belt, and Jupiter would, however, be excellent locations, with lots of natural resources, a reasonable distance from Earth, and strategic importance.
Keep in mind that Earth itself would likely be fragmented, so there would be infighting among the Earth factions that would hamper their ability to take the colonies. It would kind of suck for for the US to launch a fleet against Mars and be intercepted by a Chinese fleet.
Also, keep in mind that space colonies will have to be largely self-sufficient at first because with the rocket technology available in the conceivable future, it will take an entire year to get to Mars!
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1. They would have MUCH more powerfull lasers 300 years in the future...and it dones't even have to be a laser...mass driver anyone? You cna't miss the Moon and it will travel forver.
2. you dont' even have to hit it with much power..if you keep hitting the same spot over a period of time you'll burn trough even with a weaker laser.
3. You can only target resource production centers or food production centers
4. Colony domes armored? Better than warship hulls?
Meh...
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1. Agreed.
2. True, but the FS engine doesn't support that. :P
3. Meh.
4. Yes, better than warship hulls.
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You're wrong under 2!
Make a beam cannons with 1 damage and a life of 10000000 and see it burn trough a sathanas (in about an hour or so :lol: )
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Then see the Sath turn around and use its BFReds on you.
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1. They would have MUCH more powerfull lasers 300 years in the future...and it dones't even have to be a laser...mass driver anyone? You cna't miss the Moon and it will travel forver.
2. you dont' even have to hit it with much power..if you keep hitting the same spot over a period of time you'll burn trough even with a weaker laser.
3. You can only target resource production centers or food production centers
4. Colony domes armored? Better than warship hulls?
Meh...
1: Lasers obey the inverse square law. You have to bring the laser close to the target or else you'll lose almost all of that energy. You'd need something like a Death Star to break a colony dome at that range. And the firing platform better be a satellite, because such a weapon would do horrible things if it was fired from the surface.
2. It could take months or years to burn through a lunar dome from Earth.
3. If you mix industrial, agricultural, and residential facilities together, you make it impossible to bomb a dome without politically unacceptable casualties. The human shield principle.
4. Yes! A warship is limited by size, mass, and actually having to move the damn thing, A colony dome's armor is limited only by the strength of the structural members holding it up. Make those strong enough, and you could easily make a colony dome stronger than a warship.
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I didn't say it had to be a laser...Mass driver, plasma cannon...whatever works...can be a nuke for all I care...
Yep, you cna mix everything up...I'm sure the population will be REALLY happy they're used as human shields...especially with the synthetized paste your'e serving them...a real morale booster
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Still, Earth = HUGE staging point.
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Enough of this.