Hard Light Productions Forums
General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: Locutus of Borg on July 17, 2007, 08:15:16 pm
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I have a theory about the Knossos portals that's probably been borught up before.
The nebula on the other side of K1 is the result of a star going Nova. Is it possible the Ancients were trying to leave behind a warning about the Shivans by taking us back to Capella, but several thousand years in the future?
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I don't think so. The viewed the Ancients as selfish, arrogant, and racist. They did after all, conquer many species. At least the GTVA didn't try doing something like that.
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The GTVA didn't meet any species before the Shivans. So there was not much conquering to be done. Well, aside from meeting eachother of course, which as we all know ended up with both sides trying to conquer the other until the real bad guys showed up :p
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The GTVA didn't meet any species before the Shivans. So there was not much conquering to be done. Well, aside from meeting eachother of course, which as we all know ended up with both sides trying to conquer the other until the real bad guys showed up :p
Na, they weren't trying to conquer each other. It was more like,
Terran - "I don't like your shoes, I'm gonna kill you now."
Vasudan - "Well, I don't like your gloves, so we're gonna demolish your existance!"
The ancients were more like,
Alien - "Hello, we come in peace."
Ancient - "Omg! Its a bunch of inferior people! Lets enslave and/or destroy their civilization!"
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I think it was more like,
Zods: "We don't like you spreading all over the place and taking all the planets and resources, which we need since our homeworld is such a sandhole."
Monkeys: "OMFGJ THEY BLOCK OUR MANIFEST DESTINY, ANGER"
Zods: "Crap, they're aggressive, short-sighted, and rude. This can't end well. So, preemptive war, since those crazy humans are bound to attack us first otherwise."
Monkeys: "WTF! RETALIATION!"
;)
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I think FS2 contradicts itself. Bosch said in one of his monologues that the Ancients died 10,000 years ago, yet Dr Hargrove said the Knossos portal was only 'several thousand years old'.
So if the Ancients were dead, how could they make it ?
Someone else must've made it... :nervous:
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Go play PI. :P :lol: It is fun but hard.Suggested Mode is Very easy. :lol:
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Go play PI. :P :lol: It is fun but hard.Suggested Mode is Very easy. :lol:
I did and couldn't get through it. Those stealth missions are too hard.
I'm a stealth noob. :sigh: Give me a medusa and i'll bring down an Orion for you.
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Same they were freaking hard.(Just do them five times if you lose five times you can skip ;7).I also can take out a interceptor in a Ursa better than i can in a Herc........(Hercs suck :ick:).
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PI?
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Procyon Insurgency.A good Campaign but hard as ****.
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Give me a medusa and i'll bring down an Orion for you.
I'm astounded by your mad bomber skills! Brazenly attacking a ship with blindspots on only four of six sides? MADNESS! :P
Seriously, though, I think that the writers at Volition had enough sense to stay away from time-travel plots. They typically don't work out well, as they come off as pretty cheesy. In all likelihood, the first Knossos leading to a nebula was probably just coincidence. If you want to build significance upon Bosch's 'Nine Cities of Troy' analogy, you could posit that the Shivans were responsible for creating the nebula beyond Gamma Draconis, and the species that existed there before collapsed the node(s) to that system, which the Ancients then stabilized with the Knossos device. Unfortunately, this parallel would all have to be based on assumption, as there is no canonical evidence of an older species existing in Gamma Draconis, prior to the Ancients.
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can I have a link to download it?
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http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,46817.0.html
There have fun. ;)
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yeah, that's one I didn't think of. I had thought the ancients were living beyond Gamma Draconis, and Shivans invaded, so they collapsed the Gamma Draconis-beyond node as it went supernova, Ancients built up a fleet they thought was somehow superior to 90+ Sathies, used the knossos to reopen their nodes, and brought another invasion upon themselves.
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An older species does not necesarily mean a more advanced species. I mean the ancients were exploring through subspace at a time when humans were probably still living as nomads or something like that yet at the time their empire was destroyed by the shivans the only real advantage they had over the GTA/PVN during FS1 was they subspace tech . Other then that they were pretty much at the same level as terrans and vasudans during FS1.
So they were how shall I say this a stagnant race. Not as much as the shiavans but still a stagnant race. The reason would be because they believed themselfs so superior that they did not bother to keep improving as before they tech.
Remember one of the discutions between the pilots and comand I believe during FS2 when some rokie said that the shivans were fighting with just great war relics and "well show them what firepower is all about" or something like that....
Also one of the had an opinion that comand should just close the portal seal up the node and let the shivans alone and that hunting after shivans was a waste of time....and the reply was something like "don't fool yourself pilot were the ones beeing hunted" (How true) (Stupid rookie pilot)!
Then the shivans bring out the Ravana and all goes down hill pretty fast. He wanted to see firepower did he? Ho got more then he ever dreamed of.
The point is that war with the shivans has pushed the GTVA tech far more then they could of ever dream of. Also after Capella I bet there ae even more techs beeing researched basd of shivan tech. Also let us not forget the Knossos which has the abilaty to open up a whole new era in expansion for the GTVA.
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Ummm, making a star go nova does not make the nodes in the system disappear. All you do is make a star go nova and the nodes stay. I think there's enough evidence in the story to show off that the nebula beyond gamma drac. was a star that went nova a long time ago induced by the shivans.
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Give me a medusa and i'll bring down an Orion for you.
I'm astounded by your mad bomber skills! Brazenly attacking a ship with blindspots on only four of six sides? MADNESS! :P
erm...... :blah:.....shuddup im a good bomber! :(
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s-99 as far as we can tell the shivans were using a knossos to enter the nebula. so did the GTVa and Bosch. So basicly the knossos artificyali created a node that in time became permanent. It must be some sort of side effect of the knossos's prelonged presence.
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s-99 as far as we can tell the shivans were using a knossos to enter the nebula. so did the GTVa and Bosch. So basicly the knossos artificyali created a node that in time became permanent. It must be some sort of side effect of the knossos's prelonged presence.
Play mission 'Argonautica.' The Aquitaine jumps to a JUMP NODE, not a Knossos portal, into Gamma Drax. That seems to reason that it was the Gamma Draconis - Nebula Jump Node was unstable, not the Nebula - Gamma Draconis Jump Node. Nuking stars does not kill Jump Nodes.
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So true, because in the final missoin of the last mission in the original campaign, they still sent a ship into Capella after the Saths blew up the star, they did it to seal off the node, because stars going nova in space does not affect SUBSPACE nodes- two different planes of existence
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Then what the hell do they need gravity for jump nodes to exist??? After a star goes nove there is almost no gravity to speak of. So wtaht the hell does gravity have to do with the existe of jumpnodes then??
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yeah, that's one I didn't think of. I had thought the ancients were living beyond Gamma Draconis, and Shivans invaded, so they collapsed the Gamma Draconis-beyond node as it went supernova, Ancients built up a fleet they thought was somehow superior to 90+ Sathies, used the knossos to reopen their nodes, and brought another invasion upon themselves.
I think it is more like: Ancients find a jumphole wich is closed, build something to open it, build more, more more more more more.. until they reach the shivans, when they get powned so fast that they can not shut the knossos off...
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After a star goes nove there is almost no gravity to speak of.
Wrong. The star may spew a lot of that mass out into the nebula but plenty of mass stays behind. Supernovae are responsible for the creation of black holes. Are you really telling us that black holes have no gravity?
The other possible creation of a supernova is a neutron star. Even small neutron stars weigh the same as or more than the sun. That's plenty of gravity. Especially considering that a neutron star is so compact that the gravitational slope will be steeper when you get close to it.
So wtaht the hell does gravity have to do with the existe of jumpnodes then??
Point to a single jump node in the game that doesn't go to a star system. The nebula doesn't count as it still has a star.
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Point to a single jump node in the game that doesn't go to a star system. The nebula doesn't count as it still has a star.
Well they can go anywhere, really, we just never see them in game since there's no point jumping to Sector XIP-M12 L.412 BBRANDOM3 which has nothing in it.
But I think those jump nodes would be very unstable since they have no gravitational central mass (if they do it would be very weak anyway)
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Who says that they can go anywhere? I don't have FS1 on me at the moment but I'm fairly sure FS2 never said that.
Maybe they can go anywhere and only the ones to other star systems are either stable or worth visiting. Or maybe nodes can only exist between two gravitational masses. AFAIK there is no conclusive evidence for either but the fact is that I don't see any evidence that you can have nodes that don't lead to another system.
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Who says that they can go anywhere? I don't have FS1 on me at the moment but I'm fairly sure FS2 never said that.
Maybe they can go anywhere and only the ones to other star systems are either stable or worth visiting. Or maybe nodes can only exist between two gravitational masses. AFAIK there is no conclusive evidence for either but the fact is that I don't see any evidence that you can have nodes that don't lead to another system.
So what, you're saying that jump nodes can be shifted by gravitational pulls? :wtf:
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Who says jump nodes depend on gravity? In PI, it's stated that being too close to a planet whne jumping is dangerous, but no where in canonical reference, that I know of, says nodes are even affected by gravity at all. In fact, IIRC, Gamma Draconis, which has 3 nodes, has no stellar objects to speak of, no planets, I think not even a star.
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So what, you're saying that jump nodes can be shifted by gravitational pulls? :wtf:
It's the theory I go by...
First, an intrasystem jump can occur between two points in a star system. The presence of an intense gravitational field is required, prohibiting travel beyond the boundaries of a star system.
If gravity affects (allows) intrasystem jumps, I don't see any reason why intersystem jumps would be any different in that sense. It's more or less the same mechanic.
Who says jump nodes depend on gravity? In PI, it's stated that being too close to a planet whne jumping is dangerous, but no where in canonical reference, that I know of, says nodes are even affected by gravity at all. In fact, IIRC, Gamma Draconis, which has 3 nodes, has no stellar objects to speak of, no planets, I think not even a star.
Gamma Drac has a star. It is not a null zone. Play any of the missions set in Gamma Drac, and look around for the star.
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Jeez, i wonder if you could move a planet or moon into subspace....
*makes a note to create a giant model of a small moon, then warp it in through subspace, or see what it looks like in a subspace corridor* :lol: *
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s-99 as far as we can tell the shivans were using a knossos to enter the nebula. so did the GTVa and Bosch. So basicly the knossos artificyali created a node that in time became permanent. It must be some sort of side effect of the knossos's prelonged presence.
Play mission 'Argonautica.' The Aquitaine jumps to a JUMP NODE, not a Knossos portal, into Gamma Drax. That seems to reason that it was the Gamma Draconis - Nebula Jump Node was unstable, not the Nebula - Gamma Draconis Jump Node. Nuking stars does not kill Jump Nodes.
The Knossos is on the other side keeping the node open. all nebula missions have a sun in them though.
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Jeez, i wonder if you could move a planet or moon into subspace....
*makes a note to create a giant model of a small moon, then warp it in through subspace, or see what it looks like in a subspace corridor* :lol: *
Download Inferno, there's an Earth Model.
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Well then here is a quetion is a sun goes nova then the only 2 things that can result is either a neutron star or a black hole. However have there even been instances where the sun just explodes and all that is left is the nebular gas cloud and no star to speak of???
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There would still be a gravitational mass, I expect.
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However have there even been instances where the sun just explodes and all that is left is the nebular gas cloud and no star to speak of???
As far as I know, that is not physically possible. This is really a matter for someone like Herra Tohtori as I'm not at all an expert, but here goes:
What you've basically got in a star is a nuclear fusion reactor, albeit one that is contained by its own gravity rather than by magnetic fields. It is initially fusing Hydrogen, but later as pressure and temperature mounts, it starts to fuse the Helium created from the first stage. If the star is large enough, this process continues with a breakdown and fusion of various materials, all producing energy and keeping the star alive, until it eventually arrives at a point where fusion produces Iron.
Once that happens, it's the end of the line for the star. There is no way to produce energy from Iron, either through fission or fusion, and since this energy production was essentially keeping the star blown up like an air balloon, it starts to collapse. Fast. Until matter is packed almost as tightly as in the nucleus of an atom. Once that happens, the rest of the stuff that's falling in essentially richochets off the super-compressed core, which along with other factors causes the outwards shockwave we know as a supernova. But the compressed core is still left behind, and it can weigh several solar masses.
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So it still has gravity.
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man i still dont have a clear answer to my question. But for now this will have to do!
Thanx!
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However have there even been instances where the sun just explodes and all that is left is the nebular gas cloud and no star to speak of???
If this is your question, then no, I guess.
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IIRC a type 1a supernova results in the complete destruction of the star and leaves only a nebula. But it's a completely different kind of supernova from the one we see in the cutscene. For a start the exploding star has to be a white dwarf as opposed to a yellow giant like Capella. It has to be a binary system with the other star close enough that they actually hit each other or that the white dwarf can feed from a larger companion star.
In other words not what the Shivans did at all.