Hard Light Productions Forums

Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: brozozo on July 28, 2007, 11:22:08 pm

Title: LCD monitor
Post by: brozozo on July 28, 2007, 11:22:08 pm
I'm on the market for one, and I'm a relative noob when dealing with them. How important is response time? Can you guys recommend me a brand or model?

edit: I'd like to keep it below $250.
Title: Re: LCD monitor
Post by: CP5670 on July 29, 2007, 01:11:53 am
Acer AL2051W (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824009105&Tpk=al2051w). It's the best overall LCD under $550 right now, and it's only $200.

The response time matters to some degree, but they all ghost anyway. When you get to the fastest LCDs, you start having to compromise a lot on other factors (there is one exception to this, the NEC 20WMGX2, but it's quite expensive). It's better to cut back a bit on the response time and get better image quality, which is essentially what the AL2051W offers.
Title: Re: LCD monitor
Post by: Ashrak on July 29, 2007, 01:44:03 am
i have my eye on Samsung 226BW, but thats probly out of the 200$ price range
Title: Re: LCD monitor
Post by: IceFire on July 29, 2007, 09:06:44 am
Anything that is 8ms or lower will provide a good gaming LCD.  Then you want to make sure your contrast ratios are high.  The better monitors on the market have 1500:1 and 2000:1.  Keep an eye out for those and ignore anything that is really low like 500:1 or 700:1.
Title: Re: LCD monitor
Post by: CP5670 on July 29, 2007, 09:54:17 am
Most of the numbers don't really mean anything and should be ignored. It's particular models you should look at. A monitor with an 8ms response time can have a true average response of anywhere between 12ms and 35ms, while any contrast ratio over about 600:1 is automatically BS since conventional LCD technologies are simply not capable of more right now.
Title: Re: LCD monitor
Post by: Shade on July 29, 2007, 12:05:55 pm
There must have been some kind of numbers inflation going on since I got my LCD. If those numbers are anything to go by, mine has no contrast at all and updates like a slideshow. Yet, I rarely see any ghosting even when actively looking for it, and it has no problems with pitch black, bright white and all the colours of the rainbow. Something is just not right about the numbers advertised these days.
Title: Re: LCD monitor
Post by: foolfromhell on July 29, 2007, 04:15:09 pm
I got this http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824001096&Tpk=226BW
2 MS RESPONSE TIME!
Never seen ANY ghosting on this baby!
And its 22" too. Its $50 more than your price range,. ($299 after mail in rebate), but it owns.
if you get extra cash, I recommend this.
And its 1680x1050, which is the best resolution under the $700 price range. and the viewing angle is underexxagerated on the specs list.
Plus, its HDCP compatible
Title: Re: LCD monitor
Post by: CP5670 on July 29, 2007, 04:44:37 pm
Quote
There must have been some kind of numbers inflation going on since I got my LCD. If those numbers are anything to go by, mine has no contrast at all and updates like a slideshow. Yet, I rarely see any ghosting even when actively looking for it, and it has no problems with pitch black, bright white and all the colours of the rainbow. Something is just not right about the numbers advertised these days.

It's been going on for several years now. The best thing is to just ignore the numbers and go by internet reviews and user opinions instead.

The perceived ghosting depends a lot on the person and the type of game. I have a 90GX2 on my work rig (uses the same Samsung LTM190M2 panel that most 2ms 19" screens have) and I can see enough ghosting to make certain games borderline unplayable, mainly FS2 and D2X-XL. Some other games look just fine to me.

Quote
I got this http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824001096&Tpk=226BW
2 MS RESPONSE TIME!
Never seen ANY ghosting on this baby!
And its 22" too. Its $50 more than your price range,. ($299 after mail in rebate), but it owns.
if you get extra cash, I recommend this.
And its 1680x1050, which is the best resolution under the $700 price range. and the viewing angle is underexxagerated on the specs list.
Plus, its HDCP compatible

Except for the response time and size (not necessarily a good thing, since the dot pitch is also higher), that one is inferior to the cheaper AL2051W in every way. There is also a panel lottery going on with it and you have no way to tell whether you'll get the original Samsung panel or a crappier AUO panel.
Title: Re: LCD monitor
Post by: foolfromhell on July 29, 2007, 05:29:21 pm
2" is worth the larger pixel size.
Plus, I got mine at a store, so I didnt gamble on the panel.
Title: Re: LCD monitor
Post by: CP5670 on July 29, 2007, 05:41:31 pm
It's not worth the 6-bit panel, matte coating and worse viewing angles though, not to mention the $100 extra cost.

To be fair, the AL2051W is ridiculously cheap at the moment for what it is. Almost everything looks like a bad deal in comparison to it. :D
Title: Re: LCD monitor
Post by: foolfromhell on July 29, 2007, 05:55:59 pm
The coating is glossy on mine and the viewing angle is pretty awesome. Almost 180 degrees
Title: Re: LCD monitor
Post by: CP5670 on July 29, 2007, 06:24:06 pm
Maybe they added the refractive coating on one of the newer revisions, as the original one didn't have it. I doubt the viewing angles are all that good though, which is what one would expect since it's a TN. The image won't actually start to fade until the extreme edges but you get subtle color shifts long before that. (actually, the 22" monitors are large enough that there is a slight color difference between the left and right edges of the screen from any one viewpoint)
Title: Re: LCD monitor
Post by: brozozo on July 29, 2007, 06:47:05 pm
Thanks for the help, CP!
Title: Re: LCD monitor
Post by: Janos on July 30, 2007, 12:15:13 am
LCD Soundsystem is much better
Title: Re: LCD monitor
Post by: brozozo on July 30, 2007, 01:14:27 am
I'm North American scum.
Title: Re: LCD monitor
Post by: kv1at3485 on July 30, 2007, 02:46:54 am
I keep this (http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=31&threadid=2049206&enterthread=y) link handy, just in case I get the sudden urge to replace my trusty CRT.
Title: Re: LCD monitor
Post by: Ulala on July 30, 2007, 02:58:46 am
Acer AL2051W (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824009105&Tpk=al2051w). It's the best overall LCD under $550 right now, and it's only $200.

What would you say about buying two of these for a dual monitor setup? Would it be better to just purchase a single monitor for $400 instead?
Title: Re: LCD monitor
Post by: Shade on July 30, 2007, 06:51:37 am
Well, if that Acer is the best LCD under 550$, logic dictates that you should go with one or two of the cheaper, better LCDs and not the more expensive, worse LDC.
Title: Re: LCD monitor
Post by: CP5670 on July 30, 2007, 09:16:46 am
Quote
What would you say about buying two of these for a dual monitor setup? Would it be better to just purchase a single monitor for $400 instead?

Not a bad idea, although you should make sure that two widescreens are not too wide for what you're doing. In general, if you just want extra desktop space, two or three smaller monitors will always be much more cost effective than buying a large one of the same area. If you're looking to play games though, you can only use only one monitor at a time in most cases.

Quote
I keep this (http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=31&threadid=2049206&enterthread=y) link handy, just in case I get the sudden urge to replace my trusty CRT.

:yes:

xtknight's thread is awesome, better than a lot of professional review sites. It has been in progress for almost two years now, although was recently split to improve forum loading times.
Title: Re: LCD monitor
Post by: Ulala on August 02, 2007, 10:53:05 am
How about this one, aside from being TN? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824254026
Title: Re: LCD monitor
Post by: CP5670 on August 02, 2007, 11:29:17 am
That actually looks more like a TV than a monitor. I would not recommend any TN beyond the 22" size for close range viewing (as done with computers), since the low viewing angles will lead to heavy color distortions at the edges from any direction you look at it.

Take a look at the Acer AL2616Wd instead. It is fairly new and there isn't much known about it yet, but it seems to the best deal among the larger 1920x1200 monitors (PVA panel and wide gamut backlight for a sub-$700 price). I don't know what its response time and input lag are like though.

Among the smaller, more common models of the same resolution, the Dell 2407WFP-HC (MVA panel and WG backlight, but rather slow) and Philips 230WP7NS (high end IPS panel with low input lag and motion blur, but an inch smaller) are probably the top choices under $700.
Title: Re: LCD monitor
Post by: brozozo on August 03, 2007, 06:21:59 pm
I can totally sympathize with nuke's Newegg woes. My order sat around for five days doing nothing, and then Newegg voided it because of insufficient funds (???). Thankfully, I reordered it, and they shipped it today.
Title: Re: LCD monitor
Post by: Ulala on August 04, 2007, 01:39:31 am
I'd really prefer black casing, otherwise I'd give that acer more consideration. I came across this though: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824255001

doesn't have DVI which is quite annoying (VGA on a monitor this size, what the hell?), but has HDMI which I'd use instead.
Title: Re: LCD monitor
Post by: CP5670 on August 04, 2007, 02:37:34 am
It looks good for the price, most likely a PVA. As with the Acer though, there is very little information available on it. I don't know anything about its RT or input lag. The input lag is likely to be significant, which is the case with all 24" xVAs. Also, note that the "glossy black" refers to the bezel color, not the panel coating.