Hard Light Productions Forums

Community Projects => The FreeSpace Wiki Project => Topic started by: bruce89 on August 11, 2007, 04:46:25 pm

Title: PNG support
Post by: bruce89 on August 11, 2007, 04:46:25 pm
Why does the wiki not allow pngs to be uploaded to it?

I ask as I was trying to upload a png version of http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Image:Mine_event_standard.JPG . The JPG is 13KB, and a better PNG is 1.6KB.
Title: Re: PNG support
Post by: Wanderer on August 11, 2007, 05:01:29 pm
Possibly some security settings. By quick look at mediawiki... Could be related to following.. possibly...
http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:%24wgFileExtensions

There is nothing i can do about it though. Its a job for the higher powers...



Just like the used link color thing...
Title: Re: PNG support
Post by: Shade on August 11, 2007, 05:33:02 pm
Would seem worth the effort to allow them if there's that massive a gain. And I have occasionally been slightly annoyed at the low quality that jpeg compression results in at higher compression rates.

While we're on the topic by the way, I've been mulling the idea of providing bare-bones sample missions for the FRED examples, so would it be possible to add some place to upload small (like, sub 10kb) zips, which can then be linked to from the wiki? Quite a bit more work than simply editing the allowed extensions, I imagine, so I won't hold my breath. But it can't hurt to ask :)
Title: Re: PNG support
Post by: bruce89 on August 12, 2007, 01:05:02 pm
JPG is more suited to in-game screenshots, I don't think having PNG versions of those would be viable (too large).

Images such as weapons (http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Image:Hornet_320x240.jpg) and sexps (http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Image:Hornet_320x240.jpg) / screenshots from FRED would be a lot smaller as PNGs.
Title: Re: PNG support
Post by: nubbles526 on August 13, 2007, 12:39:43 pm
What is your problem?? You don't need to start a fuss about PNG! Look, if FS Wiki wants it that way, then let it be ok? I would anybody change the pictures? Those are already great! Look, you might rethink your posts before continuing this discussion.
Title: Re: PNG support
Post by: Mars on August 13, 2007, 02:18:45 pm
wtf is your problem nubbles? it's a fine question, leave the guy be
Title: Re: PNG support
Post by: Shade on August 13, 2007, 03:56:58 pm
Yeah, what the hell? He's working to make the Wiki better, which everyone that uses it should be thankful for. He has been polite about requesting PNG support,  has been patient about it and also been helpful in explaining what needs to be changed to allow it. So let me ask, nubbles, what the hell is your problem?
Title: Re: PNG support
Post by: jr2 on August 14, 2007, 03:54:23 am
Oh dear... everyone calm down.  If you feel mad when you're about to post, open a new tab and look at other posts while you calm down before responding.  Keep it civil, eh?  Everyone is (for the most part) just trying to help.  No need to get pissed.  Or this will be Gooby and you:
        :hammer:
:beamz:
Title: Re: PNG support
Post by: nubbles526 on August 14, 2007, 09:44:12 am
wtf is your problem nubbles? it's a fine question, leave the guy be
Yeah, what the hell? He's working to make the Wiki better, which everyone that uses it should be thankful for. He has been polite about requesting PNG support,  has been patient about it and also been helpful in explaining what needs to be changed to allow it. So let me ask, nubbles, what the hell is your problem?

Er...sorry for that...had a bit of a drink yesterday. Had a fight with one of my friends...I don't remember anything since I went to that party. Oh jezus! WTF was I doing?! I don't remembering writing or posting inside the forums.... :wtf:

I am duely sorry for doing this. I am saying sorry to Shade, Mars, Bruce89 and Wanderer. I will never drink again...


And oh, since my brain IS controlling me again, let's get back to topic. I strongly suggest we keep use new screenshots instead of converting the old ones.


Competetor of Bosch beer (I guess)

(http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/2020/beerra7.jpg)
Title: Re: PNG support
Post by: Mars on August 14, 2007, 12:50:51 pm
wtf is your problem nubbles? it's a fine question, leave the guy be
Yeah, what the hell? He's working to make the Wiki better, which everyone that uses it should be thankful for. He has been polite about requesting PNG support,  has been patient about it and also been helpful in explaining what needs to be changed to allow it. So let me ask, nubbles, what the hell is your problem?

Er...sorry for that...had a bit of a drink yesterday. Had a fight with one of my friends...I don't remember anything since I went to that party. Oh jezus! WTF was I doing?! I don't remembering writing or posting inside the forums.... :wtf:

I am duely sorry for doing this. I am saying sorry to Shade, Mars, Bruce89 and Wanderer. I will never drink again...


And oh, since my brain IS controlling me again, let's get back to topic. I strongly suggest we keep use new screenshots instead of converting the old ones.


Competetor of Bosch beer (I guess)

(http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/2020/beerra7.jpg)

lol... figured it might be something like that... we'll just pretend it never happened... now

PNG and maybe ZIP compatibility with the wiki
Title: Re: PNG support
Post by: nubbles526 on August 14, 2007, 01:53:11 pm
But why upload a zip into Wiki? You could just link a download page in Filefront? Although it may be nice, but hope it doesn't clutter too much of the database...

EDIT: Has anyone tried GIF or TIFF yet? TIFF is also high quality compared to PNG.
Title: Re: PNG support
Post by: Shade on August 14, 2007, 05:57:05 pm
Ah... too much to drink, the bane of communication everywhere. I'm glad it was something like that and not you going crazy :)

As for the zips... convenience, and certainty that it'll be there - Wouldn't really want to link to off-site files from the wiki since those are outside our control. And not upload to the wiki as such, just some place on the server that could be linked to from the wiki. With the file sizes in question, it would take up less space than the images and far less bandwidth too since they would be a selective download.
Title: Re: PNG support
Post by: Tolwyn on August 15, 2007, 08:41:46 am
Although it may be nice, but hope it doesn't clutter too much of the database...

Does the wiki store binary data in the database (like Mantis) or in a folder on the server (like smf)?
Title: Re: PNG support
Post by: Goober5000 on August 15, 2007, 07:20:39 pm
Tolwyn, maybe you could take a look at things and figure out why PNGs aren't working.  I edited LocalSettings like the instructions said, but nothing happened.
Title: Re: PNG support
Post by: nubbles526 on August 16, 2007, 02:29:21 am
Tolwyn, maybe you could take a look at things and figure out why PNGs aren't working.  I edited LocalSettings like the instructions said, but nothing happened.

Goober is going to pound the database now...

Hmm...you say it is uploading. But what if you link the image? Is there such code where you have for example:

[lvlshot][lvlshot]?
Title: Re: PNG support
Post by: bruce89 on September 16, 2007, 06:02:58 pm
I am duely sorry for doing this. I am saying sorry to Shade, Mars, Bruce89 and Wanderer. I will never drink again...

It's fine, I didn't notice 'til now anyway.

And oh, since my brain IS controlling me again, let's get back to topic. I strongly suggest we keep use new screenshots instead of converting the old ones.

Of course, JPEG -> PNG would be pointless, as the loss has already happened in the JPEG conversion. You'd end up with a much larger PNG than the JPEG was and with no gain at all.

EDIT: Has anyone tried GIF or TIFF yet? TIFF is also high quality compared to PNG.

TIFF is uncompressed - (think BMP-like file sizes). PNG will look exactly the same as TIFF, but smaller.

Comparison

For example, I took http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Image:Vergleich_Titanic.png, which is 66 KB PNG. (http://img485.imageshack.us/img485/1605/vergleichtitanicri6.th.png) (http://img485.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vergleichtitanicri6.png)
As a JPEG it is 169 KB. (http://img466.imageshack.us/img466/6321/vergleichtitanicts1.th.jpg) (http://img466.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vergleichtitanicts1.jpg)
As a TIFF, it is 19.6 MB.

Zoom in to see the difference.
Title: Re: PNG support
Post by: jr2 on September 17, 2007, 12:59:52 am
Ya, .TIFF format filesizes suxx0r.

EDIT: Although, as I remember, there are two formats of .TIFF, and one is compressed, and isn't half-bad.  I converted an entire directory of .TIFF clipart on a Mac to the compressed version, with immense space savings.
Title: Re: PNG support
Post by: bruce89 on September 17, 2007, 04:07:04 pm
EDIT: Although, as I remember, there are two formats of .TIFF, and one is compressed, and isn't half-bad.  I converted an entire directory of .TIFF clipart on a Mac to the compressed version, with immense space savings.

Indeed, the GIMP offers 5 choices for TIFF -- No compression, LZW, Pack Bits, Deflate and JPEG.

For the web, it would be totally pointless to use compressed TIFF, I don't even think MediaWiki allows it.
Title: Re: PNG support
Post by: jr2 on September 18, 2007, 06:47:05 am
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TIFF#Flexible_options (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TIFF#Flexible_options)

Some of those compression options are lossless.
Title: Re: PNG support
Post by: bruce89 on September 20, 2007, 06:31:10 pm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TIFF#Flexible_options (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TIFF#Flexible_options)

Some of those compression options are lossless.

Doesn't matter, PNG is better in every respect (for what we need anyway).
Title: Re: PNG support
Post by: Galemp on June 06, 2008, 04:11:52 pm
:bump: I want to upload some stuff that would look very nice in PNG. Any progress on this front?
Title: Re: PNG support
Post by: Snail on June 06, 2008, 04:31:32 pm
I like your node charts that you uploaded to all the history sections, BTW.