Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: achtung on August 13, 2007, 05:24:42 am
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... so now I want some opinions from you folks outside the U.S. Do you consider your health care system good? Do they do a good job of... doing their job? What are your opinions on the U.S. system?
I know I sat down with someone who's been in the medical system for, well, her entire life and watched the movie. She now works for a Workman's Comp Claims/Health Insurance firm. She said half of the "situations" in the film were plain old bogus. She also claims without a bit of doubt that the quality of health care in the U.S. is higher, should you have insurance.
She does see a socialized system working, but not at a Federal level. On a state level it seems more feasible, which makes sense to me too.
To be honest, when he drug those 9/11 volunteers to Cuba and the Hospitals seemed to take them in with open arms, and the place was like a ritzy hotel, I couldn't help but feel as though it was every bit a show for the camera.
So, thoughts?
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Finnish health care rocks! It's free and good quality. Also if you prefer to go to a private doctor, the government will usually pay 80% off the price.
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A World Health Organisation report on healthcare ranked the USA ranked 38th in the world. The UK was 18th and I doubt you'll ever find a Brit who is happy with the state of the NHS.
Finland did pretty well IIRC. But the winner was France.
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Healthcare here is working quite well. Hospitals are free for everyone, every time I've needed them the doctors have been serious about their jobs and damn good at them too, and consultations with your private doctor (everyone has one) are also at no cost. You do have to pay for the medication they prescribe, but that is also subsidized by the government so you only pay around 50% of the price.
Even so, it's one of the areas that causes the most political infighting. But that's because the politicians can't find much else to argue about, so every time a newspaper prints a story about one of the mistakes that obviously still do happen, the whole thing immediately escalates to parliamentary level with the opposition parties crying foul and demanding that the minister of health be sacked and the whole system reorganized.
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Healthcare here is a opposite system to the US... The state funds allmost everything...but since the state doesn't have so much money...let's just say it's great for small and not too serious stuff....but hospitals are sorely underequipped. Oh, and the state owes pharmacies several million $. (since it pays a portion, or even the full price of various drugs, pills and other stuff)
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Croatia was only 6 places behind the US in that report. :D
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Meh..healthcare here is OK..When I said that our hospitals are underequipped, I mean we dont' have much of the high-tech newest stuff.
I bet only 3-4 hospitals in the country have all the equipment for those very complicated procedures (I'm talking the real complicated ones)...otherwise it's OK.. We have good doctros luckily :D
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As a Canadian...the US system scares me allot and it terrifies me that anyone up here is even contemplating trying to switch over to that system. I think most people consider that to be a bad idea no matter what problems the Canadian system has and that government managed healthcare, despite the issues, is far better for the country and the economy than not. Thats not to say that the biggest issue with Canadian healthcare is the wait times. We have problems with that....wait times are too long. So in some cases there are private clinics that will do procedures and sometimes people do go to the US. Its possible in the US to get good healthcare...but it costs.
If you can't pay the money then you don't get the good treatment. So you get a multi tiered system where some people can afford and have good health and other people can't and either go bankrupt or don't get it. I think thats not a good model to go on. Insurance is a stop gap measure that just makes other people rich in the process. Too much opportunity to make money in this case where the focus should be purely on healthcare.
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As a Canadian...the US system scares me allot and it terrifies me that anyone up here is even contemplating trying to switch over to that system. I think most people consider that to be a bad idea no matter what problems the Canadian system has and that government managed healthcare, despite the issues, is far better for the country and the economy than not. Thats not to say that the biggest issue with Canadian healthcare is the wait times. We have problems with that....wait times are too long. So in some cases there are private clinics that will do procedures and sometimes people do go to the US. Its possible in the US to get good healthcare...but it costs.
If you can't pay the money then you don't get the good treatment. So you get a multi tiered system where some people can afford and have good health and other people can't and either go bankrupt or don't get it. I think thats not a good model to go on. Insurance is a stop gap measure that just makes other people rich in the process. Too much opportunity to make money in this case where the focus should be purely on healthcare.
Have to agree on every word here. Deviding people in to those that can afford to pay for their healthcare and those that cannot is just plain stupid.
Swedish healthcare is generally good, but like canadians we also struggle with waiting times.
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... so now I want some opinions from you folks outside the U.S. Do you consider your health care system good? Do they do a good job of... doing their job? What are your opinions on the U.S. system?
I know I sat down with someone who's been in the medical system for, well, her entire life and watched the movie. She now works for a Workman's Comp Claims/Health Insurance firm. She said half of the "situations" in the film were plain old bogus. She also claims without a bit of doubt that the quality of health care in the U.S. is higher, should you have insurance.
She does see a socialized system working, but not at a Federal level. On a state level it seems more feasible, which makes sense to me too.
To be honest, when he drug those 9/11 volunteers to Cuba and the Hospitals seemed to take them in with open arms, and the place was like a ritzy hotel, I couldn't help but feel as though it was every bit a show for the camera.
So, thoughts?
http://www.sfbg.com/blogs/bruce/2007/07/cnn_vs_sicko_factchecking_mich.html
There is some independant fact checking for you.
One of the biggest gripes I had is that you were only "allowed" to see certain doctors, if you dared to go see a doctor that wasn't on your "plan", you would have to pay out of pocket.
There are many problems with the healthcare system. One of them is the insurance companies. but the other problem is the runaway drug costs that is part of what makes all this unaffordable to begin with.
I seriously dislike the US healthcare system seeing as to how I was a victim of it for so many years.
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[off topic rant]Hmph. The US system would be a ton better if the docs didn't get stupid frivolous lawsuits for everything under the sun... I think, that one should only be held responsible if real harm was done and the doc was negligent. If it was an honest mistake, then he (his insurance) should pay to have it put right, plus a little extra for the inconvenience. And, even if someone is harmed by negligence, they should not be able to sue for unreasonable amounts... maybe the doc should be punished or not be able to practice anymore if it's a repeat problem, but, honestly, where do they think that money is coming from? The doctor?? His insurance, yes, but they have to charge all docs a higher amount for their premiums because of this. Oh well. [/off topic rant]
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Doctors are only humans too...to err is human. Down with lawsuits!
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How did the Canadian system fare?
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here, you can get superviruses from surgery rooms, and the nurses are annoying and tret you like a kid.
i want to go to finland...
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Health care on Brazil is a awfull thing, to say the least, seriously underpaid medics, understaffed hospitals, hospitals lack of even the simple and basic things, heck, I've seen hospitals that dont have even a aspirin! In short, dont even think about getting sick and you might live.
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The first thing that needs to be fixed is the current patent system, then healthcare can be fixed. Of course, this will only happen if a revolution occurs. Hmm... excuse me while I plan a war. :drevil:
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I am 38% below the California poverty line. That qualifies me for free health insurance. It comes in handy, considering I cannot afford decent health coverage. A friend of mine is just barely above the California poverty line. She has limited insurance for $122 per month, as she could not afford my equivalent coverage of $672 per month. She was involved in a car accident, and she was hospitalized for two weeks. Her insurance did not pay for it. She now has an $80,000 debt to the hospital after liquidating her $30,000 savings.
Now seriously... WTF! What kind of system is it where the lower class are more financially secure than the lower middle class? Really makes me sick.
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The US system would be a ton better if the docs didn't get stupid frivolous lawsuits for everything under the sun...
Lots of stuff would be better without pointless lawsuits.
The small aircraft and boat industry has suffered under that for years (some rich guy buys a plane, crashes it, then sues the company for his own stupidity but they now has to raise the price on their aircraft to cover legal fees, so much so that only rich men can afford to fly... then another idiot crashes and sues, etc till a $20k aircraft costs over $300K before you even contemplate the horrors of trying to insure the thing).
The US system is not perfect and never attempted to be. Simple fact is we have too many transient populations (as well as undocumented immigrants who don't get paid the legal minimum wage and have no insurance) and can't afford to pay for everyones meds on top of all our other commitments.
Mandatory insurance sounds like a solution until the insurance companies themselves (an evil only second to the legal industry) start writing up junk policies that don't cover jack **** while still taking $50 out everyones paycheck.
If you want to crack the health care problem for the US, start with the law and insurance problems. You don't just say "free health care for all!" and expect things to work out by themselves.
The medicine itself is quite good once you remove the things soaking up peoples money and preventing them from affording it.
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Now seriously... WTF! What kind of system is it where the lower class are more financially secure than the lower middle class? Really makes me sick.
IDK, makes me :mad: for your friend there. Grrr.. I've heard of these kinds of horror stories. It's like you're punished for working hard and making more money! Even though, when you finally do make enough money, you pay for all the ppl who are below the poverty line through your taxes. Makes no sense... Oh well.
Lots of stuff would be better without pointless lawsuits.
The small aircraft and boat industry .... etc till a $20k aircraft costs over $300K before you even contemplate the horrors of trying to insure the thing).
The medicine itself is quite good once you remove the things soaking up peoples money and preventing them from affording it.
Spot on.
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I'm back on Bupa, i had it from my corporate job before i went to Bosnia the first time and fraKKed my knee, Luckily i wangled it, and now i'm back on Bupa again, so i've not much trouble, but the NHS.... Sweet god, why would anyone leave a wartorn country to become a refugee over here and put themselves through it....... :shaking:
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What's Sicko?
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I'm back on Bupa, i had it from my corporate job before i went to Bosnia the first time and fraKKed my knee, Luckily i wangled it, and now i'm back on Bupa again, so i've not much trouble, but the NHS.... Sweet god, why would anyone leave a wartorn country to become a refugee over here and put themselves through it....... :shaking:
Off topic question: What were you doing in Bosina CD? (Thats my homecoutry)
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Didn't know you were my neighbour Windrunner :D
Geez, I got a few relatives and friends up there. Howz everything? Coming down for a swim? ;7
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Off topic question: What were you doing in Bosina CD? (Thats my homecoutry)
I was stationed at Herzegovina, my Regiment was there on rolling 6 month tours, EOD stuff mainly.
Dunno much about the area to be honest. I was instructing LSA and only really went out twice, second time was a bit nasty..... :blah:
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Didn't know you were my neighbour Windrunner :D
Geez, I got a few relatives and friends up there. Howz everything? Coming down for a swim? ;7
I mentioned it a couple of times :) I was in Croatia and Bosnia in july for two weeks visiting relatives, but damn it was hot like hell down there.
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I was stationed at Herzegovina, my Regiment was there on rolling 6 month tours, EOD stuff mainly.
Dunno much about the area to be honest. I was instructing LSA and only really went out twice, second time was a bit nasty..... :blah:
Wuthapend?
I mentioned it a couple of times I was in Croatia and Bosnia in july for two weeks visiting relatives, but damn it was hot like hell down there.
Everyone goes down to the sea...hehe.. get's a bit crowded here given that all of Bosia comes down...can't blam them since they only got..what? 12km of a shorilne? And that's cutting right trough Croatia, cutting it in two pieces. We must have been drunk or something when we accepted that. :p
Is there any other country in the world where you have to pas trough another country to get to another part of your country? :lol:
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Russia, United States, etc...
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Russia?
EDIT: And France. You have to go around Newfoundland to get to two French islands off the coast.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaliningrad_Oblast
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What's Sicko?
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sicko
Basically a movie about the United States health care system.
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I'll have to watch it.
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I'll have to watch it.
Just be sure to watch it with a bit of skepticism and open mindedness at the same time.
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I'll have to watch it.
Just be sure to watch it with a bit of skepticism and open mindedness at the same time.
Isn't that impossible?
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No. It's the way you are supposed to treat everything. :p Be open-minded, consider the evidence, but don't hesitate to question the legitimacy of anything. If it's really accurate, there's nothing to worry about. If it isn't, it's better off being questioned.
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skepticism:
-noun
1. doubt about the truth of something. [syn: incredulity]
2. the disbelief in any claims of ultimate knowledge. [syn: agnosticism]
open minded:
-adjective
1. having or showing a mind receptive to new ideas or arguments.
2. unprejudiced; unbigoted; impartial.
I think if you disregard the second meaning for it, you can be open minded while being skeptical about something.
"Nothing is impossible, not if you can imagine it! That's what being a scientist is all about!"
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Wuthapend?
Rather not get into it suffice to say my knee had a 4 inch piece of shrapnel lodged in it from a mortar.
Back on track, it's that Michael Moore film isn't it?
Doesn't he ever just make a nice film about bunnies and happy stuff EVER? :)