Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Ace on August 15, 2007, 09:10:46 pm
-
Could extraterrestrial life be made of corkscrew-shaped particles of interstellar dust? Intriguing new evidence of life-like structures that form from inorganic substances in space have been revealed in the New Journal of Physics. The findings hint at the possibility that life beyond earth may not necessarily use carbon-based molecules as its building blocks. They also point to a possible new explanation for the origin of life on earth.
Life on earth is organic. It is composed of organic molecules, which are simply the compounds of carbon, excluding carbonates and carbon dioxide. The idea that particles of inorganic dust may take on a life of their own is nothing short of alien, going beyond the silicon-based life forms favoured by some science fiction stories.
Now, an international team has discovered that under the right conditions, particles of inorganic dust can become organised into helical structures. These structures can then interact with each other in ways that are usually associated with organic compounds and life itself.
V.N. Tsytovich of the General Physics Institute, Russian Academy of Science, in Moscow, working with colleagues there and at the Max-Planck Institute for Extraterrestrial Physics in Garching, Germany and the University of Sydney, Australia, has studied the behaviour of complex mixtures of inorganic materials in a plasma. Plasma is essentially the fourth state of matter beyond solid, liquid and gas, in which electrons are torn from atoms leaving behind a miasma of charged particles.
Until now, physicists assumed that there could be little organisation in such a cloud of particles. However, Tsytovich and his colleagues demonstrated, using a computer model of molecular dynamics, that particles in a plasma can undergo self-organization as electronic charges become separated and the plasma becomes polarized. This effect results in microscopic strands of solid particles that twist into corkscrew shapes, or helical structures. These helical strands are themselves electronically charged and are attracted to each other.
Quite bizarrely, not only do these helical strands interact in a counterintuitive way in which like can attract like, but they also undergo changes that are normally associated with biological molecules, such as DNA and proteins, say the researchers. They can, for instance, divide, or bifurcate, to form two copies of the original structure. These new structures can also interact to induce changes in their neighbours and they can even evolve into yet more structures as less stable ones break down, leaving behind only the fittest structures in the plasma.
So, could helical clusters formed from interstellar dust be somehow alive? "These complex, self-organized plasma structures exhibit all the necessary properties to qualify them as candidates for inorganic living matter," says Tsytovich, "they are autonomous, they reproduce and they evolve."
He adds that the plasma conditions needed to form these helical structures are common in outer space. However, plasmas can also form under more down to earth conditions such as the point of a lightning strike. The researchers hint that perhaps an inorganic form of life emerged on the primordial earth, which then acted as the template for the more familiar organic molecules we know today.
Original article:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/08/070814150630.htm
Very, very interesting implications.
-
Well, not to imply that I understand a word they said, but its the kind of thing I expect we'll find.
I figure theres a damn good chance we could spend the next thousand years poking around space trying to find "life", only to discover that its been swimming past us the whole time in forms we just cant recognize because we're too busy looking for earth type animals.
-
If you want to get down to it, fire is alive in a way. It does metabolize and reproduce.
-
Fire lacks a mechanism of heredity/adaptation, which these molecules do have.
-
Fire lacks a mechanism of heredity/adaptation, which these molecules do have.
Fire burns, the offspring of fire burn, perhaps one day Timmy will be able to burn at the Olympics! ;)
-
The article may be recent, but the basic idea is pretty old.
-
http://discovermagazine.com/2007/jul/aliens-among-us/
"what about life as we don’t know it? What if other, completely distinct forms of biology also took root on the early Earth? After all, the swiftness with which life appeared might mean that it could easily do so anytime, anywhere the conditions are right. If so, maybe life arose more than once at different locations on the early Earth. Those other organisms might have their own biochemistry and a separate evolutionary history. They might not even use DNA—they could be, in essence, alien beings that just happened to emerge on the same planet. Which leads to the big question: What if one (or more) of those alternative forms of life is still around?"
-
[Bones]It's life Jim, but not as we know it![/Bones]
-
This is basically what xenoscientists have been saying for years, i.e we shouldn't get too wrapped up in assumptions that life needs carbon, water and a habitable zone (with the last being the most idiotic scientific idea I've heard of in years).
-
Before going any further, I must point out that according to the news sites this has been a computer simulation. I would wait for a confirmation in laboratory experiment also. But if this can be found experimentally it would be an interesting twist for something what we call "life".
-
I'm very sceptical...a lot of things can be interpreted as "life-like" in behaviour. You cna also define life in many ways.... but still interesting to consider..... How can anything live INSIDE plasma touhg???' :wtf:
-
How can anything live INSIDE plasma touhg???'
"How can anything live on a planet?
Things that existed there would be surrounded by corrosive gases, solvents, and a horrible force called gravity that tries to squish your very molecules to a pulp. At such low temperatures and without an adequate amount of life sustaining gamma radiation, surely life as we know it simply cannot exist." -Some Alien from a nebula
In all seriousness, the only thing we know is that we don't know very much about this universe. Maybe we have to make a division between interesting things that could be "alive" on the academic level (clouds, fire, computer programs, puddles of chemicals, hippies) and living beings of the kind we can have meaningful interaction with.
I'm reminded of Kosh from Babylon 5, a creature made up only of energy. If not for the plot of the show there would be little reason for things like that and humans to even bother with each other.
We might run across a vorlon and simply thought it to be some kind of strange ball lightning phenomenon, just like they could mistake us for a strange puddle of carbon that walks around making noise.
We don't know whats out there or if any of it would be life forms as we understand them here. It would be wise to keep an open mind.
-
Wow...scientists are just now realizing that life may not need water to exist. I thought of that when I was like, what, five?
-
How can anything live INSIDE plasma touhg???'
"How can anything live on a planet?
Things that existed there would be surrounded by corrosive gases, solvents, and a horrible force called gravity that tries to squish your very molecules to a pulp. At such low temperatures and without an adequate amount of life sustaining gamma radiation, surely life as we know it simply cannot exist." -Some Alien from a nebula
dude, plasma is like super-hot. Atoms break apart, connections and molecules break apart... it's like living in the centre of the Sun. Yes, I am VERY sceptical about this, with good reason to be.
-
Interstellar dust clouds are at a very low pressure and yet can still be in a plasma state due to stellar radiation.
-
Wow...scientists are just now realizing that life may not need water to exist. I thought of that when I was like, what, five?
That's cause a lot of the work in this area has been done by idiots.
-
A lot of assumptions were made in the search for life, I think, after all, we only had 'us' to base the concept on. I suppose, in a way, a Helix is the most balanced shape, it represents equal motion on every axis in the most compact shape available, so I wouldn't be surprised if it turns up more often than we think.