Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: DeepSpace9er on August 24, 2007, 11:39:54 am
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I have been perplexed about this for a while. I have a friend who has had 'group' dreams with her friends, that is, on a regular basis they were dreaming the exact same thing with specific concrete small details. The dreams were very lucid, and were hard to tell apart from memories. The dreams would always occur at night, outside their apartment, and the next morning they would all know what happened without it needed to be discussed much, so much so that she doesnt know if they were dreams at all or if they were blotched memories. She said she would go to sleep and fall into a 'sleep trance' and wake up the next morning sometimes with visible signs that she was outside, but not 100% if it was real or not. What gets me the most is how all 3 of them had specifically identical 'dreams.' Any ideas?
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Well. I predict deaths and car accidents in my dreams. I'm superior to your friends :P
I heard a couple of stories about "group dreams", but I think that they're just coincidences.
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It can't be coincidence. It's one of those unexplainable and freaky phenomena.
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It can't be coincidence. It's one of those unexplainable and freaky phenomena.
also known as supernatural.
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Oh, come on. "Coincidence" isn't a bad word. Strange things happen. However, if a group of people continuously shares dreams...well, I wouldn't call it a "coincidence" .
It can't be coincidence. It's one of those unexplainable and freaky phenomena.
Should I consider myself a Prophet, then? I had prophetic dreams that went well beyond the concept of "unexplanable phenomenon". But I don't want to talk about them... :blah:
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Their souls touched eachoter...or sumtin like that.
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Their souls touched eachoter...or sumtin like that.
How you can consider it a valid explanation?!?
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You want a scientific explanation for something that doesn't appear to have one in a 1000 mile radius?
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If it happens one time, I would call it a coincidence. If it happens every single night, well, I would reconsiderate my opinion.
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It's a glitch in the matrix.
/me runs away
EDIT: But seriously, everybody has premonitions in one way or another. Call it what you will (I call it psychokinetic turbulence :D), but often it is just self-fulfilling prophecy.
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Sounds like they need to quit drinking. :lol:
In all seriousness, were they together for most of the day? Dreams are supposedly shaped by events that occur earlier in the day, if two people who are somewhat alike share the same experience, they might very well have identical dreams.
Of course, I'm no psychologist. :cool:
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This place needs more skeptics right now. DEVIL'S ADVOCATE POWERS, ACTIVATE!!
Potential causes:
1. Drug/Booze induced dazes:
"Man, I totally remember going to the bathroom!" "No, Rojo, you went to the KITCHEN and took a whiz in the trash can." "Oh."
2. Complete fabrication.
Friends or no, this happens WAY more than you'd like or know. I don't want to hear that your friend is a saint either. I had a girlfriend that was a 'saint'. You don't want the know the depraved acts she would commit... in a completely innocuous situation. :nervous:
3. Strong prior stimuli or consistent stimuli between parties while asleep.
Such as multiple people being asleep in the same area with a TV on, especially if said movie or show that is playing is already very familiar to the subjects, multiple people may dream they are somehow connected with the show or the subject of it.
4. Simple semi-conscious sleepwalking.
Lucidity and actual evidence of being outside point directly to this.
*Have an unrelated 3rd party interview each person individually immediately after a dream 'session' asking specific, pointed questions, not allowing the 'dreamers' to ramble about the experience. If any stories match, then you might be able to entertain the thought that it could be a possibility, even though it would still be entirely probable that they're faking every bit of it, or at best case, that any similarities discerned were a direct result of previously mentioned external stimuli.
Until there's any empirical evidence, it isn't to be believed. "Brain waves" are not radiated from the skull. They're not even "waves" at all. There is no foundation (other than magic and faeries, kinda like the big thing in the sky that watches you all the time, even when you poo) for this kind of occurrence to stand on. It's nothing but wishful thinking.
Now, once, I had a dream that my as-yet unborn twin cousins were born with duck feet and bills. Why? Not a clue. Maybe I was watching Bugs and Daffy that day. I do have one hell of an imagination though. When they really 'arrived' a few months later, oddly enough, the skin between their second and third toes on both feet was overgrown so it almost looked like they had (barely) webbed feet. Interesting coincidence, sure. Did I predict the future with my dream? Hell no.
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I suspect that dreams don't lodge themselves in the brain the same way memories do. consider when you wake up - you know you had an awesome dream, and for the first few seconds, you can remember it very clearly. But it slips away, much faster than a real memory would. I suspect this also makes them susceptible to modification by the conscious mind. One friend says one thing, the other instantly "remembers" dreaming the exact same thing, and it contnually reinforces. This'd probably get a lot stronger the more often they meet anfd talk about it,m each expecting to have had another shared dream. Plus I doubt they'd dwell on the differences. It only takes a few coincidences to convince people that there's something supernatural going on, but a lot of errors to convince them that there isn't once they've got it into their heads that they're special.
Of course, they could simply all be possessed by the dark lord Beelzebub. Either or.
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Of course, they could simply all be possessed by the dark lord Beelzebub. Either or.
That's a good point. Do their heads rotate 360 degrees at random?
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well if it wasn't the vorlons and it wasn't me it must have been the starborn.
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Of course, they could simply all be possessed by the dark lord Beelzebub. Either or.
That's a good point. Do their heads rotate 360 degrees at random?
That would be a nightmare. Incubus is the contrary of Succubus. The Succubus interferes with your dream, you become an Incubus. The Greeks thought that nightmares were caused by external forces.
But it wasn't a nightmare...it was a dream like any other. :blah:
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I've always considered it to be a kind of 'sixth sense', and I don't mean 'paranormal' type senses, I mean that situation when you know that one particular person in a room is looking at you, and before you even realise, you have turned your head and met their gaze. Even more eerie, if you think about it, is the fact that most people know when their pet is 'lurking', even a cat, which is pretty quiet, will still set that 'feeling' off when they are watching you at the computer. I do think there's some kind of empathic sensitivity in our psyche, but I don't consider it to be 'special' and certainly not 'unique' to mankind.
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My views on this are sort of odd... basically this is what I think of that. They're sleepwalking. If they're claiming to have evidence saying they went outside and have the same exact dreams, here's what I'd say you should do (Without saying anything to any of them)...
Basically, seperate 2 or 3 of them from the rest of their normal group. If you can observe them discretely, they may or may not give you clues on what's causing it. Scientists would likely put them under many cameras and microphones, finding out everything they do for extended periods. Something that I was thinkning about when reading this (after a TV program on the subject) is aliens. :lol: I doubt it would be that, but if it is, ask them to say hi to the Vasudans or the Shivans for me!
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I've always considered it to be a kind of 'sixth sense', and I don't mean 'paranormal' type senses, I mean that situation when you know that one particular person in a room is looking at you, and before you even realise, you have turned your head and met their gaze. Even more eerie, if you think about it, is the fact that most people know when their pet is 'lurking', even a cat, which is pretty quiet, will still set that 'feeling' off when they are watching you at the computer. I do think there's some kind of empathic sensitivity in our psyche, but I don't consider it to be 'special' and certainly not 'unique' to mankind.
I consider it to be something on a spiritual level, not physical.
When you know someone so well, you know his soul so well that you have a level of understanding that is beyond physical... :blah:
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That would be a nightmare. Incubus is the contrary of Succubus. The Succubus interferes with your dream, you become an Incubus. The Greeks thought that nightmares were caused by external forces.
I thought that Succubi and Incubi devoured souls during intercourse which took place inside of a dream. So... unless they're really ugly, I wouldn't consider it a nightmare. ;7
P.S.
I still think booze is the cause. :drevil:
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All 3 lived in the same apartment, had similar interests, hung out most of the day they werent at classes. I've done a little bit of reading into things like this, and training yourself to dream lucidly can be difficult, and having mutual dreams with similarities can be even harder, but having identical ones as often as they did without, as far as i know, training of the mind before sleep is just mind boggling. If one went away for a week or so, they wouldnt appear in the 'dreams' until they came back. One of them was skeptical and tried extensive cross examination, but it always seemed to check out. Dreaming is one thing, but discussing a dream as if it was real mentioned what each other did in it is just beyond comprehension.
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You know, I could be wrong, but I think some of it may have to do with dream states being irrational and vague. Often times dreams seem blurry and incomplete when you remember them as they are, so the memory of it is stored with mostly empty wildcards. When a person enters a situation where the conditions are the same as the properly stored memory of the dream, they may recall that they have experienced it before, with the rest of the environment filling the wildcards. This seems to me the most logical and rational explanation discussed.
Of course it could just be psychokinetic turbulence :p.
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Have them make a paper account of their dream right after they awake. Setting an alarm and having them write their dream before they make contact with each other should show major differences. Remember dreams fade quickly--if I talk to someone right after waking up, I can generally give a very good account of what I dreamed. However, about halfway though the conversation, I start to forget major things about the dream until basically everything but what I gave an account of is forgotten by my conscious mind. Remember that waking up is your conscious and subconscious minds meeting briefly... you're still "sleepy" (subcon is primary) but as you wake up you disconnect from subcon and enter con.
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You know, I could be wrong, but I think some of it may have to do with dream states being irrational and vague. Often times dreams seem blurry and incomplete when you remember them as they are, so the memory of it is stored with mostly empty wildcards. When a person enters a situation where the conditions are the same as the properly stored memory of the dream, they may recall that they have experienced it before, with the rest of the environment filling the wildcards. This seems to me the most logical and rational explanation discussed.
This is similar to what I was trying to say., You'd also be filling these "wildcards" up when each person talks about their experiences. Your dreams are still probably malleable in your head, and easily modified by ither people telling you what you should have dreamed.
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Send them off to James Randi (http://www.randi.org/research/index.html). Either they'll shut the hell up about it or win $1m.
Incidentally while getting that link I came across this little nugget.
Rosemary Hunter has applied for the Challenge, media presence requirement included, with the extraordinary claim that she can make people urinate themselves with the power of her mind.
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Ms. Hunter says this ability is a gift from God, and that she is one of His angels.
:lol:
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Incredible! Perhaps now when I have bladder problems she can help me take a piss when all seems futile.
An extraordinary gift indeed. She will help millions with it.
Or perhaps she performs a horrific act that makes people naturally urinate....
Don't tell me her age.
EDIT: About the "team dreams" conundrum, Scuddie and Black Wolf have nailed it. The dreams themselves may be similar due to being together and experiencing similar situations, but there should be differences when one dreams as each brain thinks differently and acts on a situation differently than another brain would. The holes within the dream are filled with anything that makes the dream sensible. Thus, the dreams shared between the girls are similar as they were in the same environment as before, but filled it with wildcards (what they think will connect) just so that it makes sense and comes to the conclusion of a team dream!
Blast, I sound too redundant today.
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Send them off to James Randi (http://www.randi.org/research/index.html). Either they'll shut the hell up about it or win $1m.
No one here passed the exams(alchemy, temperature change, preparing eggs without touching them)! :lol:
Incidentally while getting that link I came across this little nugget.
Rosemary Hunter has applied for the Challenge, media presence requirement included, with the extraordinary claim that she can make people urinate themselves with the power of her mind.
....
Ms. Hunter says this ability is a gift from God, and that she is one of His angels.
:lol:
:lol:
Incredible! Perhaps now when I have bladder problems she can help me take a piss when all seems futile.
An extraordinary gift indeed. She will help millions with it.
Or perhaps she performs a horrific act that makes people naturally urinate....
Don't tell me her age.
:lol:
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Quote from BW:
You'd also be filling these "wildcards" up when each person talks about their experiences. Your dreams are still probably malleable in your head, and easily modified by ither people telling you what you should have dreamed.
While obviously I can't provide any proof of this, I did have once case of a "shared" dream many years back. It definitely wasn't coincidence nor were we feeding ideas off each other. We both saw each other in the same situation and saw the exact same details (which were pretty unusual btw).
Never experienced anything like that before or since and damn if I know how the heck it works. (Ah! Alien mind control! :shaking:)