Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: colecampbell666 on August 27, 2007, 07:05:11 pm
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I am bugging my parents to get a new PC, and was wondering if this one is worth the price.
Case (http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1446794&sku=A107-1050) - 100$
Motherboard (http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3042178&sku=I69-2150) - 140$
CPU (http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2643933&sku=CP2-DUO-Q6600) - 320$
Video Card (http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2571836&sku=A177-3146) - 240$
Hard Drive (http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3191749&sku=THD-200M4) - 80$
DVD/CD Burner (http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2665639&sku=L12-1124) - 45$
RAM (http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3198079&sku=O261-6040) - 270$
Memory Fan (http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=120565&sku=V13-4200) - 25$
CPU Fan (http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1272112&sku=S457-1036) - 25$
The case has two fans and temperature gauges built in.
Total price with shipping and tax - 1236.85$ Canadian.
The speakers and monitor are too heavy and jack up the shipping and I can get better ones at Costco.
I have a copy of XP and don't want Vista.
Would this be worth getting? Have I missed anything?
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God awful motherboard, god awful CPU (OEM, quad), god awful heat sink. There are too many reasons to go into detail.
Memory is good, but your OS won't be able to see beyond 3072 MB, so a whole gig is virtually wasted. There are workarounds, but they aren't pretty.
The hard drive is not nearly big enough for practical application.
I would recommend a Thermaltake ArmorX case, they are very proficient with cooling and durability. You will also need a good PSU for it. I would recommend Enermax.
Other than that, it looks good.
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God awful motherboard, god awful CPU (OEM, quad), god awful heat sink. There are too many reasons to go into detail.
What's OEM again? What's wrong with the motherboard?
Memory is good, but your OS won't be able to see beyond 3072 MB, so a whole gig is virtually wasted. There are workarounds, but they aren't pretty.
Max Dual Channel Memory: 8Gb
The hard drive is not nearly big enough for practical application.
That's all that I'll need.
I would recommend a Thermaltake ArmorX case, they are very proficient with cooling and durability. You will also need a good PSU for it. I would recommend Enermax.
PSU= Power Supply?
Other than that, it looks good.
What's wrong with the case I chose? Or are you just suggesting what you like?
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Nothing is wrong with the case, per se, but I can guarantee the quality of the ArmorX is much higher. I see a lot of cases that are 'cool looking' and have their own PSU (yes, power supply) ending up to be substandard. If an attractive case is a high priority for you, I say why not get the best?
The motherboard you chose is just a reference board for a G33e chipset, which is primarily for entry-level PCs. Very low scope of options there, especially OCing. The Asus P5B (P965) is a very good board, The Asus P5K(P35) is even better... but has some maturity problems. If you care about capability, one of the two I suggested will be what you want.
There are two things wrong with that CPU. First, it's a core2 quad, which saturates your FSB quite easily, and has lower tolerance for failure. Add on top of that some 20% of OEM (original equipment manufacturer, a misnomer in the computer industry) CPUs are DOA. If a quad core is important to you (it's not, unless you have a rendering farm), then at least go with retail. I think an E6600 would be a much better value. They're pretty cheap.
Just because the board can use 8 gigs of memory doesn't mean your OS can see it. If Windows XP can see 3072 MB, no amount of hardware can change this. XP64 can use the full amount of memory, but that's a terrible hackjob OS.
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The hard drive is not nearly big enough for practical application.
200GB??? are you serious!? thats way TOO big if you ask me!
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200GB??? are you serious!? thats way TOO big if you ask me!
too big hell no, i have a 250gig and it only holds 176 games
most of these are a few years old and take up less than 1gig hdd space if i just had brand new games it would hold a lot less
games today are taking up in excess of 4 gig each some take up double that
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200GB??? are you serious!? thats way TOO big if you ask me!
too big hell no, i have a 250gig and it only holds 176 games
ONLY 176???? god damn, i only have 10 or so games on my drive. I probably have 200 games not on my drive that i havn't played in year. Seriously be honest here, do you even play all of those games regularly? i barely play one or 2 of mine. damn, and people say I'M addicted to gaming...
Alright, i'll calm down. It just came as a huge shock when you said ONLY 176 games....
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:wtf: Only 176?Dude you have problems.Come on Regular peoples computer ony holds like 9 major games at the most. :doubt:
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:wtf: Only 176?Dude you have problems.Come on Regular peoples computer ony holds like 9 major games at the most. :doubt:
Tone down on the flames a bit there...
But yeah, he has a point.
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Meh, I don't like their limited selections, but here goes. Keep in mind that any system or part listed below is going to be better (imho) than what was previously listed.
AMD:
Motherboard (http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2896645&CatId=2320) - $120.00
Processor (http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2905658&CatId=2328) - $217.00
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Intel:
Motherboard (http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2473506&CatId=2014) - $90.00
Processor (http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2341562&CatId=2396) - $270.00
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Nondenominational (joke):
Case (http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1215768&CatId=1510) - $50.00
Cheap Power Supply (http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2974309&CatId=1483) - $40.00
Power Supply (http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2974638&CatId=1483) - $80.00
Expensive Power Supply (http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2776974&CatId=2534) - $226.00
Hard Disk (http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2268595&CatId=139) - $100.00
Cheap Video Card (http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3192396&CatId=1558) - $150.00
Video Card (http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3244224&CatId=1558) - $270.00
Expensive Video Card (http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2597917&CatId=1558) - $580.00
DVD/CD Burner (http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2665639&sku=L12-1124) - 45$
RAM (http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3198079&sku=O261-6040)* - 270$
Memory Fan (http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=120565&sku=V13-4200) - 25$
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Non-D = $680.00**-$840.00-$1296.00***
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AMD = $337.00
Total cheap = $1017.00
Total not-so-cheap = $1172.00
Total expensive = $1633.00
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Intel = $360.00
Total cheap = $1040.00
Total not-so-cheap = $1195.00
Total expensive = $1656.00
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*I don't like the RAM you chose.
**I would get this one.
***You'll burn forever if you spend that much.
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YOU ARE DIFFERENT FROM I AM! YOU HAVE PROBLEMS! RAWR!
Douchebag. :doubt:
I totally agree we Scud and Davros here, 200gig ain't going to hold up for too long. Invest in something considerably larger, and it'll definitely be worth it. Honestly, I can't tell you how many times i've cursed my lack of space, all after thinking "who could possibly fill up a HDD this big" back when I first assembled my comp.
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YOU ARE DIFFERENT FROM I AM! YOU HAVE PROBLEMS! RAWR!
Douchebag. :doubt:
I totally agree we Scud and Davros here, 200gig ain't going to hold up for too long. Invest in something considerably larger, and it'll definitely be worth it. Honestly, I can't tell you how many times i've cursed my lack of space, all after thinking "who could possibly fill up a HDD this big" back when I first assembled my comp.
Lets be reasonable here, a person like me, who never plays more then a few games regularly, will not need a big hard drive. My 71 gigs has lasted me for maybe 2-3 years, up until now, where i just barely reached the cap, and thats form downloading useless junk that I'm going to delete soon anyway. A really heavy gamer, or one that doesn't delete stuff regularly, will need those 200 gigs. so the perfect hard drive for cole will be the one that suits his preferences.
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I have an 80gb hard drive... and it's running quite nicely
I have:
421 tracks (used to be 1,056 but I deleted all the stuff that was, in my own oppinion ****... Barenaked Ladies and the like)
Ubuntu Linux
Microsoft Windows (stripped down)
Open Office
Every document I've ever written
Bunch of other misc things (some pictures, some large videos, some random applications
Linux games:
Nexuiz -Play every day if I can
Tremulous -Play on weekends
Urban Terror -Weekends
Quake 4 -On breaks
Warzone 2100 -When I'm bored
Open Arena, Warsow, Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory, more (about 10 games) -Hardly ever (deleted)
Windows games:
Descent 3 -Long breaks
Doom 3 (demo only) -Late at night
That's 8 games and 2 OS's on 80 gigs with a lot of extra space
The trick is that if you never use something (a game or an application) you should remove it.
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The trick is that if you never use something (a game or an application) you should remove it.
Yeah, i check for unused stuff weekly.
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Actually I should mention, I'm a gamer... not a hard-core I don't spend my money on computers. I like cooking, I buy kitchen hardware, I'm a student, I buy textbooks, I'm saving for college.
My computer is low end for a gamer, let's start with my mouse, I have a Logitech LX5
(http://content.etilize.com/Large/10745878.jpg)
It costs about $30... a lot of people on Nexuiz use this mouse... the logitech G7 yours for the low low price of $100
(http://www.logitech.com/repository/136/jpg/768.1.0.jpg)
For me that would be a waste of money.
The same goes for my entire system... I could get a fancy NVidia 8900... but my ATI X1300 works for the games I play... I could get 4gb of low latency memory, but my 1 gig hasn't given me problems.
What are you planning on doing with this rig of yours? If you are going to have 500 games, all the p0rn on the internet, and 20,000 lossless music tracks on it, by all means get yourself a 1TB monster, if you're going midrange, get a 200 GB hd, and if you're like me get an 80 gb
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I'm annoyed at Microsoft, my old MS Optical Mouse worked like a charm for years, if there was one thing by MS you could rely on it was their mice, but the next generation seems about as robust as custard house, already the buttons are losing responsiveness and the Wheel seems to have two speeds, i.e. Full Stop or Mega-fast.
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Wow some of you folks just flame away without much cause. Try and help the guy out.
First off...cool looking case but you may want to do some research on the case front. The case is a somewhat important variable in your purchase process but more importantly is the PSU (power supply). The PSU is extremely important in that if you get a cheap one it will A) never produce the power its rated to put out B) may fail at a quicker rate or with more disastrous consequences. Even the good PSU's can be a problem after a long time of abuse and they can fail...sometimes spectacularly by taking the whole computer with them. Don't cheap out on that.
As far as motherboard...I'd try for a Asus P5K. Good board...good price...not entry level and definitely with performance levels to make it worthwhile. The CPU is a good bargin these days and everything else looks fine to me.
Also I should mention that Tiger Direct is opening a series of stores in the Golden Horseshoe area so if you're living near somewhat near Toronto you may want to see if you can skip the shipping altogether and visit one of their factory stores.
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As far as HD Space is concerned, get what you need and a bit more.
I can't really talk, I have over a Terabyte of storage, but then, I have nearly 60 Gigs of Sample-synth instruments.
Games never stay on my drive for all that long, I'll keep the saves, but remove the main content once I stop playing them frequently, the only exception being games where I'm not certain the disks are up to a re-install.
I'd say, as a general rule, get the best you can afford, in 5 years time, regardless of whether you get a 4800 or a 8800 or anything in between, it will all be much of a muchness, so your main view should be towards reliability, storage and flexiblity, not speed.
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I am bugging my parents to get a new PC, and was wondering if this one is worth the price.
Case (http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1446794&sku=A107-1050) - 100$
Motherboard (http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3042178&sku=I69-2150) - 140$
CPU (http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2643933&sku=CP2-DUO-Q6600) - 320$
Video Card (http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2571836&sku=A177-3146) - 240$
Hard Drive (http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3191749&sku=THD-200M4) - 80$
DVD/CD Burner (http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2665639&sku=L12-1124) - 45$
RAM (http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3198079&sku=O261-6040) - 270$
Memory Fan (http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=120565&sku=V13-4200) - 25$
CPU Fan (http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1272112&sku=S457-1036) - 25$
The case has two fans and temperature gauges built in.
Total price with shipping and tax - 1236.85$ Canadian.
The speakers and monitor are too heavy and jack up the shipping and I can get better ones at Costco.
I have a copy of XP and don't want Vista.
Would this be worth getting? Have I missed anything?
A lot of FUD going around in this thread. :p For one thing, look at www.ncix.com instead of Tigerdirect. It has a larger selection and seems to be popular among Canadian buyers.
That case only has a 80mm fan port in the front, and Aspire cases generally use fairly thin and low quality steel. Get something with at least two 120mm fan ports, which is standard these days.
The Intel board is great if you're not overclocking at all, but useless if you are. The IP35-E seems to be the best clocker for the money right now, usually capable of getting 500mhz FSB speeds.
Unless you're planning to do a lot of 3D rendering, ditch the quad core and spend more on the video card. The quad core will do nothing for the vast majority of programs. An E4400 and 8800GTS for the same price will be incomparably faster in games.
For the hard drive, 200GB is fine as far as the size goes, even if you rarely uninstall anything. I had a very similar drive until two weeks ago and I only got something else for speed reasons. The problem with that drive is that it's fairly old and somewhat slower than modern drives. I would also avoid getting ATA drives of any kind at this point, as that interface is increasingly started be phased out. Most modern motherboards come with only one ATA channel. Look at the Seagate 7200.10 320GB drive instead, which is fairly fast and still cheap.
I don't think it's worth getting 4GB of memory right now, especially given how cheap the 2GB packs are. Vista 64's driver support is still fairly poor and it won't become mainstream for a while. It can be useful depending on what programs you use though. I hear that some image editing programs eat up memory very fast.
If you're going to buy a cooler separately, the stock Intel one should not be considered at all. I think the AC Freezer 7 Pro is still a good budget cooler. As for the other thing, it's not a memory fan. It fits in a PCI slot and is pretty useless in most case setups.
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i highly recomment gigabyte motherboards DQ6 sli series is very good.
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Ive had to delete some as ive just bought test drive unlimited and stalker
2 games = over 12gig of space
do you need any more proof 200gig isnt enough
ps: yes i do play them all if I didnt i'd replace them with something i did play
(http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/8765/desktopgames2kp0.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
ps:
a 200gig drive is around £40
a 320gig drive is around £48
so you might as well go bigger its not expensive.
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I've made some changes to reflect what people said.
Original:
I am bugging my parents to get a new PC, and was wondering if this one is worth the price.
Case (http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1446794&sku=A107-1050) - 100$
Motherboard (http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3042178&sku=I69-2150) - 140$
CPU (http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2643933&sku=CP2-DUO-Q6600) - 320$
Video Card (http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2571836&sku=A177-3146) - 240$
Hard Drive (http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3191749&sku=THD-200M4) - 80$
DVD/CD Burner (http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2665639&sku=L12-1124) - 45$
RAM (http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3198079&sku=O261-6040) - 270$
Memory Fan (http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=120565&sku=V13-4200) - 25$
CPU Fan (http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1272112&sku=S457-1036) - 25$
The case has two fans and temperature gauges built in.
Total price with shipping and tax - 1236.85$ Canadian.
The speakers and monitor are too heavy and jack up the shipping and I can get better ones at Costco.
I have a copy of XP and don't want Vista.
Would this be worth getting? Have I missed anything?
With Changes:
Case: Micro Tower (http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3127375&sku=T925-2262) - 135$
Power Supply (http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2974638&sku=ULT31849%20K) - 600w, - 80$
Motherboard (http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2907880&sku=A455-2330) - Asus P5B MicroATX - 160$
DVD/CD Burner (http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2665639&sku=L12-1124) - 45$
Processor (http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2341562&sku=CP1-DUO-E6600) - 2.4 Ghz, dual core - 270$
Hard Drive (http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2268595&sku=TSD-320AS) - 320 Gb - 100$
RAM (http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2206874&sku=C13-2022) - 2 Gb - 150$
Total price: 1423$ Cdn plus 300$ for good monitor and speakers locally.
A couple of questions:
Should I get 2 Gb of RAM now and upgrade later or get 4 Gb now?
Should I get quad core and good video card or dual core and better video card?
Would this be a good case?
Is XP Media center edition 64-bit?
Should I get Media Center or XP Pro?
Which video card is better for the price?1 (http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2164706), 2 (http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2571836) or 3 (http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2769459)
I don't like Nvidia, and I like HDRish. :D
Ive had to delete some as ive just bought test drive unlimited and stalker
2 games = over 12gig of space
do you need any more proof 200gig isnt enough
ps: yes i do play them all if I didnt i'd replace them with something i did play
http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/8765/desktopgames2kp0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
ps:
a 200gig drive is around £40
a 320gig drive is around £48
so you might as well go bigger its not expensive.
What is your desktop? A reskin? I've been looking for one but couldn't find one for XP.
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Ive had to delete some as ive just bought test drive unlimited and stalker
2 games = over 12gig of space
do you need any more proof 200gig isnt enough
ps: yes i do play them all if I didnt i'd replace them with something i did play
I used to keep that kind of games folder in my start menu at one point. I gave up on it after it started becoming too large, so I just launch the exes directly from a file manager program now. :p
With Changes:
Case: Micro Tower (http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3127375&sku=T925-2262) - 135$
Power Supply (http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2974638&sku=ULT31849%20K) - 600w, - 80$
Motherboard (http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2907880&sku=A455-2330) - Asus P5B MicroATX - 160$
DVD/CD Burner (http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2665639&sku=L12-1124) - 45$
Processor (http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2341562&sku=CP1-DUO-E6600) - 2.4 Ghz, dual core - 270$
Hard Drive (http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2268595&sku=TSD-320AS) - 320 Gb - 100$
RAM (http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2206874&sku=C13-2022) - 2 Gb - 150$
Total price: 1423$ Cdn plus 300$ for good monitor and speakers locally.
A couple of questions:
Should I get 2 Gb of RAM now and upgrade later or get 4 Gb now?
Should I get quad core and good video card or dual core and better video card?
Would this be a good case?
Is XP Media center edition 64-bit?
Should I get Media Center or XP Pro?
Which video card is better for the price?1 (http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2164706), 2 (http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2571836) or 3 (http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2769459)
I don't like Nvidia, and I like HDRish. :D
This looks better, but the E6600 is strangely quite expensive these days and not worth buying. Get either the faster E6750 or the cheaper E6320 or E4400 instead. I'm guessing you won't be overclocking, as that board won't let you go far and heat buildup is always an issue with SFFs.
Ultra power supplies are mediocre and somewhat prone to failure. The good manufacturers are basically Zippy, Seasonic, Enhance and Enermax. PCP&C, OCZ, Corsair and Silverstone units are rebadged versions of these and are also good. Tigerdirect's PSU selection sucks and I couldn't find any of the usual models I recommend to people, but anything around the 500W range from these companies should work fine.
1: It depends on what programs you're using and what the price differences are. As I said, Vista 64 still has some driver issues, XP 64 is even worse and you'll be limited to about 2.5-2.7GB on 32-bit OSs.
2: Latter option by far. For games, always go cheap on the processor and splurge on the video card.
3: Seems decent enough for an SFF. Just make sure it takes standard ATX power supplies.
4: No.
5: Pro is probably fine, if you don't already have it. MCE comes with some extra HTPC software that is supposed to be pretty good, but it's only worth it if you're actually planning to use that stuff.
6: #2, but none of them are very good. If you want an AMD card, get a cheaper processor (E4300 or E4400) and use the saved money to get a 2900XT.
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What is your desktop? A reskin? I've been looking for one but couldn't find one for XP.
Its a hacked uxtheme.dll so you can use 3rd party skins
the skin is called pipeline you'll find it on wincustomize or skinz.org
i do like my customised desktops
My favourite theme Understorm (Understorm talisman 2 theme, drkcmd windows theme, understorm sysmetrix skin)
and yes all the buttons do work
(http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/8463/dek15dg5.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
My 2nd Favourite theme
CopperDeck 2
(http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/8760/dek3si7.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
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So a worse processor (not much worse) and a better video card shouldn't affect performance on non-video intensive programs?
I don't like Ncix, they don't have a better selection, they have worse. They have no Matx motherboards, no Micro towers and few processors.
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A few changes:
Case: Micro Tower (http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3127375&sku=T925-2262) - 135$
Power Supply (http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3092557&sku=O261-2008) - 600w, - 110$
Motherboard (http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2907880&sku=A455-2330) - Asus P5B MicroATX - 160$
DVD/CD Burner (http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2665639&sku=L12-1124) - 45$
Processor (http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3084645&sku=CP1-DUO-E4400) - 2 Ghz, dual core - 170$
Hard Drive (http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2268595&sku=TSD-320AS) - 320 Gb - 100$
RAM (http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2206874&sku=C13-2022) - 2 Gb - 150$
Video Card (http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3112450&sku=A177-2900) - Radeon 2900XT - 600$
Total: 1434$ Cdn.
Won't the processor speed affect performance?
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It depends on what you're doing. You wouldn't be able to tell the difference in basic office/internet usage (almost any processor you buy today performs similarly with that) and games are much more dependent on the video card. On the other hand, various specialized tasks like 3D rendering or video encoding will benefit a lot from extra processor speed, although at the same time it's easy to make up the difference with even small overclocks.
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I'm annoyed at Microsoft, my old MS Optical Mouse worked like a charm for years, if there was one thing by MS you could rely on it was their mice, but the next generation seems about as robust as custard house, already the buttons are losing responsiveness and the Wheel seems to have two speeds, i.e. Full Stop or Mega-fast.
MS always did the best joysticks too. My Precison Pro is/was (comp still down) going strong. Dusty as hell but it just wouldn't die.
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It depends on what you're doing. You wouldn't be able to tell the difference in basic office/internet usage (almost any processor you buy today performs similarly with that) and games are much more dependent on the video card. On the other hand, various specialized tasks like 3D rendering or video encoding will benefit a lot from extra processor speed, although at the same time it's easy to make up the difference with even small overclocks.
Will it affect things like modelling or Movie Maker? Would a quad core improve those tasks you stated?
Why are these missing specs that the other has? Such as one has vertices per second and one has pixel pipelines. Are these different processing methods?
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Will it affect things like modelling or Movie Maker? Would a quad core improve those tasks you stated?
It wouldn't affect modeling (moving around in the viewports), only rendering. As for Windows movie maker, it depends on what codec you're using. Almost all of them take advantage of two cores, but many of them aren't designed to work with more than that and don't show much of an improvement on quads.
I think at the moment, the main use for a quad is rendering, which benefits from it immensely in most programs. If you do that a lot, it's definitely worth getting one. Otherwise, you're better off saving your money and getting a cheaper dual.
Why are these missing specs that the other has? Such as one has vertices per second and one has pixel pipelines. Are these different processing methods?
Are you talking about the video card? It has 16 texturing units, 16 ROPs and 320 shader processors. If you want to see how it performs compared to other cards, look at Xbit's benchmarks, which cover a large selection of games.
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What is rendering?
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Fancy word for drawing complicated stuff.
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Mostly it's to do with 3D Ray-tracing, though, as Ghostavo says, almost any kind of image can be rendered, but what's being referred to here is the high quality stuff such as Lightwave or 3DS pictures, which are calculated to a far higher degree of accuracy that in-game rendering (i.e. DirectX). 'Fast' rendering styles like games rely heavily on the Graphics card, however, Ray-Tracing etc is usually CPU-based, it's slower, but a LOT more accurate.. e,g,
(http://www.aqsx85.dsl.pipex.com/Picture1.jpg)
That took about 20 mins to render that single frame, but was done entirely through the CPUs.
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Why are you spending so much money on a case? HD space looks good now, though. Oh, and get a faster processer.
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The case I picked out is one that will last. That is the lowest priced good quality case I found. If you can find one for better/the same quality for less, tell me please.
EDIT: Changed the processor.
Case: Micro Tower (http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3127375&sku=T925-2262) - 135$
Power Supply (http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3092557&sku=O261-2008) - 600w, - 110$
Motherboard (http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2907880&sku=A455-2330) - Asus P5B MicroATX - 160$
DVD/CD Burner (http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2665639&sku=L12-1124) - 45$
Processor (http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3084645&sku=CP1-DUO-E4400) - 2 Ghz, dual core - 170$
Hard Drive (http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2268595&sku=TSD-320AS) - 250 Gb - 85$
RAM (http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2206874&sku=C13-2022) - 2 Gb - 120$
Video Card (http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3112450&sku=A177-2900) - Radeon 2900XT - 600$
Total: 1704$ Cdn.
I may need to downgrade the case or video card. I need to cut the price down to 1400-1500. If anyone has a cheaper, quality case that they know of, it would be much appreciated.
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You're paying too much for that card. I see some of them for around $460-480 on ncix, and TD has a few models for $525 (I'm guessing these prices are in CDN). In this case, the various brands only differ in support/warranties and game bundles.
Not sure about the case. I don't know much about MATX cases as I don't use those personally. Most of them should be fine as long as they take a standard ATX power supply. Make sure whatever you get has reasonably good intake cooling (that Thermaltake one has a side vent, which is useful), as the 2900XT produces a ton of heat.
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Ok I just gotta say that I think you really should get a Intel Core2Duo or Core2Quad they are excellent (I have a Core 2 Duo)
Asfar as the motherboard goes I would recomend a ASUS a little bit more expensive then others but I think it really pays of , my motherboard have always been stable and easy to overclock(when the computer gets old), see you have choosend the P5B, I have the P5B-Deluxe WiFi/Api edition and that one is excellent.
As for the Graphics card i would choose this:
http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2597917&CatId=1558
Since its faster than the 2900XT and Cheaper
See http://www23.tomshardware.com/graphics_2007.html?modelx=33&model1=857&model2=706&chart=277
EDIT: And the hard-drive, you can never have enough storage space I have ~1TB and have 160GB free (and most of that is on the C:\ drive)
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I'm responding to first post...
I'm not liking the case, though that's personal preference. The included power supply is likely crap. Motherboard could be much better--Intel-made boards can't overclock, not to mention G33 is not exactly the best. I recommend you look at P35 motherboards (Abit IP35-E is very good at OC'ing Q6600s). I don't know if TigerDirect has them, but the IP35-E is third to some $200 Asus board and the Abit IP35 Pro. Anyways... next thing--good processor, you will need cooling and likely thermal grease. I'm not sure I'm really liking the Radeon x1950 Pro, but it's good if you aren't ever going to Vista. I'd say the hard drive is a little small and I don't exactly trust Maxtor (compared to WD and Seagate)... it's IDE, though should probably be SATA. DVD burner is fine, though I'd go with a SATA burner as well. You won't need that much RAM if you don't use a 64-bit OS. I'd say a max of 3.5GB with that graphics card... 3 1GB modules and 1 512MB module would run you the least. Ugly PCI-bracket fans but whatever--its your choice on that. Finally, the CPU cooler is crap.
The points...
1) I'd recommend a different case
2) You need a better power supply. To check required wattage, you can use this (http://www.extreme.outervision.com/psucalculatorlite.jsp) utility.
3) Motherboard is crap, like you heard. P35 would be much better, especially an Abit IP35-E
4) Get a SATA hard drive
5) Get a SATA optical drive
6) You don't need that much RAM
7) You need better processor cooling
Next, on the second setup ((Bloodeagle))... I'd recommend straying from AMD for your current budget--they're power hogs and will cost ya in the long run. As for the Intel setup, the nForce 570 SLI chipset is outdated (replaced by nForce 650i SLI), and the processor is also considered outdated (replaced by the E6550 or E6750). The case is fine, first and second power supplies are horrible. You can find a suitable power supply by this (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=108088) listing. Good hard drive, the first graphics card isn't as good as the original Radeon x1950 pro, but it should be close. I'd say the 8600GTS is a bad deal, even now. An 8800GTS 320 would be much better and not for much more. The third is fine if you want to burn that much money.
Here's my recommendations for a build...
P35 motherboard (Abit IP35-E)
Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600, 6750, or E6850
3GB max of RAM
GeForce 8800GTS 320MB graphics card
Any case you really want
SATA DVD burner
SATA 320+GB hard drive (I am wishing I had a bigger drive--my 80GB has about 10GB left to fill... I exceeded my previous 8GB drive's usage (4GB) by about 18x in 5 years)
Themaltake Purepower 500W power supply
A better cooler, such as a Cooler Master Hyper TX2 or Gemini, a number of better coolers can be found in Anandtech articles
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should i get a dual-core proccessor or a 2 gigahurtz single core paired with a few memory sticks? im kinda torn right now.
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DO NOT get a single core processor. A dual-core is always a beter choice. Quad-core is better, though for approximately the same price as a Q6600 2.4GHz you can a E6850 3.0GHz. If you game more and care more for high framerates, the dual-core is better. If you do much beyond game, such as Photoshop, a quad-core is better.
Anyways--dual-core is a minimum. Quad-core is what's next... not quite taken advantage of right now but it will be for some later games (stuff like AI and physics will be separated out)
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any way to set it too work with both cores in unison permanently until freespace can handle it without lagging?
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No you cannot. Don't despair, though... the Core-based processors are faster then Netburst and Athlon processors, even in single-threaded applications. The only thing I know of that has its own thread in Freespace SCP is audio--which would be relatively simple compared to separating other parts (such as AI, collisions, and a bunch of other stuff, so i've heard).
I'd say you get at least a Core 2 Duo E6550--that processor runs at 2.33GHz on FSB1333 (333MHz). Be aware that, if you do that, you'll need DDR2 667 (PC2 5300) or faster RAM, such as DDR2 800, or DDR3 1333 or faster. DDR3 is expensive ($200/gigabyte, I think) and offers little benefit right now (especially compared to the under-$40/gigabyte DDR2).
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Freespace runs (the full settings) just fine with my system*.
*System specs:
AMD Athlon 4000+ (2.4ghz) single core.
768MB RAM (I'm going to buy more in a few weeks).
256MB GDDR3 NVidia GeForce 7600GS (overclocked).
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That's not the point--dual-core processors are the future for other games. Just because Freespace doesn't take particular advantage of dual+core processors, doesn't mean it's a bad idea to get them. I guess I could say Freespace runs fine on reduced settings on my computer....
*System specs:
Intel Celeron 2.0ghz single core (overclocked to 2.2ghz)
512B DDR400 RAM (underclocked to DDR294)
128MB NVidia GeForce FX5200 (overclocked to 300/500)
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That's not the point--dual-core processors are the future for other games.
Did I say they weren't?
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It's worth noting that there are games being made that supposedly use quad cores to their advantage such as Alan Wake (http://www.alanwake.com/)
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That's not the point--dual-core processors are the future for other games.
Did I say they weren't?
No, but AkenBosch asked about a single-core processor.
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You would have a hard time getting a single core even if you wanted to. They have been phased out of the market at this point and are somewhat difficult to find in normal retail channels, although some low end laptops still include them.
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Low-end laptops and super-budget desktops. If I remember correctly, Intel only produces 3 single-core processors (Celeron 420, 430, 440) now, and they're all based on Core micro architecture and the Conroe-L core.
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:bump:
I looked around and decided to go with NCIX. They actually have a massive selection. Better compy or less! :D
Case (http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=25668) - 70$
Power Supply (http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=23934) - OCZ, 600w, - 90$
Motherboard (http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=25131) - Asus P5KC ATX - 170$
DVD/CD Burner (http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=24649) - 40$
Processor (http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=22211) - 2.4 Ghz, quad core - 290$
Hard Drive (http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=25667) - 250 Gb - 80$
RAM (http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=18495) - 2 Gb - 110$
Video Card (http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=24047) - Diamond Radeon 2900XT, 512Mb DDR3 - 480$
Cooling (http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=21012+) - 20$
Total: 1588$ Canadian - Within Budget (barely)! Now to convince them to spring. I would have to convince my computer illiterate mom that it is better than this (http://www.costco.ca/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=10302228&whse=BCCA&Ne=4000000&eCat=BCCA|84|22493&N=4010185&Mo=23&pos=0&No=13&ViewAll=24&Nr=P_CatalogName:BCCA&cat=22493&Ns=P_Price|1||P_SignDesc1&lang=en-CA&Sp=C&ec=BCCA-EC805-Cat84&topnav=)
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\What is wrong with windows 64-bit?
Should I get dual or quad core, with a mind on the future?
Are Nvidia or ATI video cards better?
Should I get Vista or XP?
Is Vista Ultimate worth the price?
1) Windows 64-bit has less driver support then 32-bit
2) Quad-core for the future. You can overclock them quite well, too.
3) nVidia GeForce 8's are generally faster then their Radeon counterparts (with exception of the Radeon HD 2900 XT being faster then the GeForce 8800GTS 640MB)
4) I'd say WinVista--XP is being phased out and will lose support in 18 months (iirc).
5) From what I've heard--Home Premium is the best price/features.
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I looked around and decided to go with NCIX. They actually have a massive selection. Better compy or less! :D
Told you. :p
Video Card - Diamond Radeon 2900XT, 1Gb DDR3 - 530$
The 1GB one is not really worth the extra price. It's only about 1-2% faster than the 512MB, which is $460. The extra memory is useless and the higher memory speed doesn't do much either since the 2900 cards have massive memory bandwidth, more than they can effectively make use of.
2) Quad-core for the future. You can overclock them quite well, too.
Well, the current 65nm quads generate a lot of heat when overclocked and may not go up very far in a SFF case. One option is to get a cheaper dual (E4400 or E6750) for now and upgrade once the 45nm Penryn quads come out early next year. That's what I am doing.
4) I'd say WinVista--XP is being phased out and will lose support in 18 months (iirc).
I would also recommend using Vista for a brand new build. However, driver and game compatibility is still a bit better on XP, even in recent games like Bioshock.
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is the 2900 XT 512 better than the 8800 GTS?
Are these the same? 1 (http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=24047&vpn=2900XT512PE&manufacture=Diamond) 2 (http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=24025&vpn=100-435906&manufacture=ATI)
2) Quad-core for the future. You can overclock them quite well, too.
Well, the current 65nm quads generate a lot of heat when overclocked and may not go up very far in a SFF case. One option is to get a cheaper dual (E4400 or E6750) for now and upgrade once the 45nm Penryn quads come out early next year. That's what I am doing.
My parents will probably not be willing to upgrade.
4) I'd say WinVista--XP is being phased out and will lose support in 18 months (iirc).
I would also recommend using Vista for a brand new build. However, driver and game compatibility is still a bit better on XP, even in recent games like Bioshock.
Which Vista? What is wrong with 64-bit?
I find it hard to believe that XP is being phased out as up until last year Win98 was supported.
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Don't get Vista. It's a resource hog, buggy as all Hell, and worst of all it's the latest OS by Micro$oft. :drevil: Seriously though, it won't be worth getting Vista for at least a year.
-----------
By the way, I could have sworn 64-bit processors fully supported 32-bit applications. Am I wrong?
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is the 2900 XT 512 better than the 8800 GTS?
Are these the same? 1 2
They switch places depending on the game, but overall the 2900XT is slightly faster than the 640MB GTS. (although it's also a bit more expensive)
All the 2900XT cards of each memory size are identical. The Diamond one is the cheapest, so you might as well get that.
Which Vista? What is wrong with 64-bit?
I find it hard to believe that XP is being phased out as up until last year Win98 was supported.
As Bob-san said, Home Premium seems to be a good option, and the current 64-bit drivers for many types of hardware are not up to scratch.
You can certainly use XP if you want though. I have no plans to get Vista for a while as XP is still better in terms of game compatibility, but Vista will pull ahead later on and you're going to want to switch to it at some point anyway.
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Will the Diamond one use the ATI supplied drivers?
I have a copy of XP Pro 32-bit and will probably switch to Vista when the time comes.
Will I have problems with 2Gb of RAM with 32-bit? I assume not.
Would I be better off getting a GTS and saving the price?
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Case (http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=25668) - 70$
Power Supply (http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=23934) - OCZ, 600w, - 90$
Motherboard (http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=25131) - Asus P5KC ATX - 170$
DVD/CD Burner (http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=24649) - 40$
Processor (http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=22211) - 2.4 Ghz, quad core - 290$
Hard Drive (http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=25667) - 250 Gb - 80$
RAM (http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=18495) - 2 Gb - 110$
Video Card (http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=24047) - Diamond Radeon 2900XT, 512Mb DDR3 - 480$
Cooling (http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=21012+) - 20$
Total: 1588$ Canadian - Within Budget (barely)! Now to convince them to spring. I would have to convince my computer illiterate mom that it is better than this (http://www.costco.ca/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=10302228&whse=BCCA&Ne=4000000&eCat=BCCA|84|22493&N=4010185&Mo=23&pos=0&No=13&ViewAll=24&Nr=P_CatalogName:BCCA&cat=22493&Ns=P_Price|1||P_SignDesc1&lang=en-CA&Sp=C&ec=BCCA-EC805-Cat84&topnav=)
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That is not really bump.
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That got in there by accident.
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I think he just copied his earlier post. :p
Will the Diamond one use the ATI supplied drivers?
I have a copy of XP Pro 32-bit and will probably switch to Vista when the time comes.
Will I have problems with 2Gb of RAM with 32-bit? I assume not.
Would I be better off getting a GTS and saving the price?
1: Yes.
2: That works.
3: No.
4: Maybe. Depends on what games you play. I think the GTS is overall a better option due to its prices and the fact it has less of a performance hit with AA, but the 2900XT seems to be pulling ahead in the most recent games. The 2900XT also uses considerably more power (and expels more heat), which I don't care about, but some people do. You said you wanted an ATI/AMD card though, so it doesn't seem like a hard choice. :p
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I don't think that the 2900 would do much to a 600w PSU and heat will not be a problem with a total of three fans cooling it (2 case+1on-board).
EDIT: And since NCIX has free shipping, I threw in the monitor.
Case (http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=25668) - 70$
Power Supply (http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=23934) - OCZ, 600w, - 90$
Motherboard (http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=25131) - Asus P5KC ATX - 170$
DVD/CD Burner (http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=24649) - 40$
Processor (http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=22211) - 2.4 Ghz, quad core - 290$
Hard Drive (http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=25667) - 250 Gb - 80$
RAM (http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=18495) - 2 Gb - 110$
Video Card (http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=24047) - Diamond Radeon 2900XT, 512Mb DDR3 - 480$
Fan (http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=21012+) - 120mm - 20$
Noise Reduction (http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=18853) - Gaskets X2 - 10$
20-in-1 Panel (http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=17207) - 40$
Monitor (http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=22953&promoid=1055) - 22 in, 5ms Response Time, 3000:1 Contrast - 380$
Total: 1954$ Canadian - Within Budget (barely)! Now to convince them to spring. I would have to convince my computer illiterate mom that it is better than this (http://www.costco.ca/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=10302228&whse=BCCA&Ne=4000000&eCat=BCCA|84|22493&N=4010185&Mo=23&pos=0&No=13&ViewAll=24&Nr=P_CatalogName:BCCA&cat=22493&Ns=P_Price|1||P_SignDesc1&lang=en-CA&Sp=C&ec=BCCA-EC805-Cat84&topnav=). It is double the PC for 100$ more.
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Just so you know.... I'd never spend $2,000 on one computer, unless it was seven years ahead of its time. Which, by the way, you should only buy a new computer once every seven years.
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No, that's a bad idea. I end up spending roughly $1200 on computer related stuff every year, but I typically get back about 70% of the money by selling off the hardware before it becomes obsolete.
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I'm due for an upgrade, with my 2001 PC. Trust me, this will last. This PC I am using is a 1200$ PC and still plays most games today. The only upgrade that has been done was to put a 100$ video card in. An ATI Radeon 9550 Sapphire.
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Hell i spent $1800 for my comp at Newegg and this was back in January...
CoolerMaster Centurion 5 - $50
EVGA 680i SLI - $252 (UPDATED PRICE $159)
E6600 - $317 (UPDATED PRICE $230)
BFG 8800GTX - $600 (UPDATED PRICE $529)
Antec Smart2Power 500W -$70
Atech Flash 11 in 1 -$17
Corsair XMS 2GB DDR2 800mhz - $276 (UPDATED PRICE $104)
Sony NEC DVD-ROM - $20
Sony NEC DVD-RW - $30
WinVista Ultimate OEM - $200
The prices have obviously gone down of the meat and potatoes. So with the updated prices you are looking at $1400 without a monitor. ITs a great system.. runs like a dream, and is pretty inexpensive for the power. I know people are saying wtf why did you get the Antec powersupply?! I have had nothing but great performance from every antec supply ive used, it was inexpensive, had decent reviews, and the modular plugs are very nice.
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We spent about $500 on my computer almost five years ago... it's lasted me those said five years (though it does suck). I'm looking for an upgrade, now, however--and I'll have $800 to do so.