Hard Light Productions Forums
General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: Titan on September 20, 2007, 06:54:15 am
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I know this has probobly been discussed DOZENS of times, but i wanna know. Do you think it was just something to forshadow the introduction of the Ravana/Sathanas, or something ELSE...........
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Ye just couldn't search th' forums, could ye? Aye, there be a topic/topics about th' everyday happenin's o' Kappa win'.
Theories:
Got lost
Were ambushed by numerous Shivan fighters
Were ambushed by Ravana/Sathanas
Decided t' take a hike.
But if they were ambushed, how could one o' them just magically survive an' find his way t' GTVA forces in order t' say some gibberish about "th' truth somethin' big bein' out there"?
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Look here (http://freespace2.com/bfod.cfm). Specifically, at the 9.6.99 entry.
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"You may press [G] to target the nearest ship attacking your target. If your target is being attacked by a turret, the turret will be targeted. This is especially useful when your objective is to protect a convoy."
I'm still learning new controls!
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Kappa wing left to throw a kegger.
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Kappa 2 or 3 came back sometime in the Barracuda squadron missions.
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[Freespace 2] Dave, I'm not sure which programmer I should assign this to so I was hoping you could pass this to the relevant person. I set up and event to give the "Distinguished Inelligence Cross" for a loop mission and Fred crashed with the following error:
<error removed from bug list display>
Jeff Farris: I got $10 that says this is the "no-room-for-null-terminator" wackiness that was discussed a while back.
Dave Baranec: This medal name is exactly one charcater too long.
Jim Boone: Well Jason, looks like we need a new name. Any ideas?
Jason Scott: Hm. Can we just call it "Intelligence Cross" in the table and "Distinguished Intelligence Cross" in the debriefing?
Dave Baranec: How about "Conspicuous Intelligence Cross" ? That fits.
Anoop Shekar: Yeah, but would you want an Intelligence Cross to be conspicuous?
Jason Scott: Let's just leave it Intelligence Cross. I don't want to touch the debriefing.
Jasen Whiteside: Good call. Make it so.
Jim Boone: Done.
And you thought putting medals into the game was simple!
LOL!
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I always wondered about that. Snipes says you are awarded a really nice, distinguished intelligence cross but he then gives you a plain old intelligence cross that is not distinguished at all. :(
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IIRC he comes and goes.
EDIT: Oh! That Kappa Wing! :nervous: I really need to start playing Freespace again.
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you thinkin about the one on the bottom of my title?
and its was beta somethin in the barracuda mission.
dang V left ALOT of open plotlines.
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No. There was a Beta something in the mission as well but the one who announced that the Shivans can't be stopped was the only surviving member of the Kappa wing. Kappa 3 if I can remember the lines correctly. I'd check but I'm missing FSO due to a complete XP reinstall.
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IIRC he comes and goes.
EDIT: Oh! That Kappa Wing! :nervous: I really need to start playing Freespace again.
I thought the same thing
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it was Beta 3, at least back when i played retail, i beat the campaign once, then never got past the ravens missions again. :P
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Assuming that we're talking about "A Game of TAG", it was Kappa 3 who suddenly arrived in the battlefield, speaking frantically about getting the fleet out of the nebula, something big and that they can't stop the Shivans this time. So, we know something about what happened to Kappa wing. At least one of them saw something awful and survived long enough to say something about it to GTVA forces.
Beta whatever was one of the fighters who lured Shivans towards the AWACS and the Warspite.
And what is this 'the ravens mission' you're talking about? You flew for the 107th Ravens quite in the beginning of the campaign, when the Knossos device in Gamma Draconis was discovered. How on Earth could you be stuck there?
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dont play the campaign, just goof off in FRED. i WANNA play with my favorite ships, but im too lazy to finish a mission that uses them. :pimp:
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Aaaaah! Aaaaaaaah! No! Nooooooooooooo! Aaaaaaaaah!
Pretty much sums it up. It is supposed to be a hint at the Ravana
Warp in, scream and explode, the classic foreshadowing formula :rolleyes:
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Again, assuming that we're talking about "A Game of TAG". That mission was way after the Ravana incident. It'd be illogical for Kappa 3 to suddenly arrive and warn the GTVA about the Ravana when the Ravana was brutally beaten up quite some time ago.
If we were talking about a completely different mission, I must have missed some key element in this discussion.
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By Ravana, he probably meant the juggernaut.
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By Ravana, he probably meant the juggernaut.
Though command prolly thought it was the Ravana.
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Kappa 3: Don't like this place.
Kappa 2: Me neither... why do they want us being out here anyway?
Kappa 1: Your not to qeustion that, pilot.
Command: all f------
Kappa 1: Command, we did not read that transmission, please say again
*No response*
Kappa 1: Command, please say again.
Kappa 2: this ain't good...
Kappa 3: we should head back.
Kappa 1: Neg... this part of the nebulae is just interfering with our transmissions, we will get out of it when we continiue our pa--*
*A missile hits Kappa 1, Kappa 1 blows up. Kappa wing breaks and attacks, but they are hit hard, kappa 2 blows up... kappa 3's is heavily damaged and play's dead...*
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Kappa wing most likely encountered the Sathanas. Kappa 3 wouldn't have screamed: "there's no way we can beat them this time!" if all they saw was a Ravana, which is nothing to the Colossus.
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The Colossus that Kappa 3 wouldn't have known anything about?
I tend to think that he was on about the Sathanas but it isn't the only possible explanation. It could easily be the Ravana too. Here's the timeline.
1) Kappa Wing vanish during Mystery of the Trinity
2) Kappa 3 encounters the Ravana, gets scared and runs away.
3) The GTVA encounter and eventually destroy the Ravana
4) Kappa 3 reappears and warns about the Ravana
Where's the plot hole? That's all completely consistent with what happened in the game. At some point between 1 and 4 the rest of the wing gets killed.
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The Colossus that Kappa 3 wouldn't have known anything about?
I tend to think that he was on about the Sathanas but it isn't the only possible explanation. It could easily be the Ravana too. Here's the timeline.
1) Kappa Wing vanish during Mystery of the Trinity
2) Kappa 3 encounters the Ravana, gets scared and runs away.
3) The GTVA encounter and eventually destroy the Ravana
4) Kappa 3 reappears and warns about the Ravana
Where's the plot hole? That's all completely consistent with what happened in the game. At some point between 1 and 4 the rest of the wing gets killed.
Why would that pilot think the GTVA couldn't beat back a single Ravana when the thing is approximately the size of a Demon-class destroyer, something which GTA/PVN forces destroyed during the 1st Great War 32 years ago? The only thing that makes sense would be them sighting the massive Sathanas, since supposedly the GTVA warships have the beam weaponry to take down a Lucifer superdestroyer, which is tougher than a Ravana.
You are right about the pilots not knowing about the Colossus yet, but I still can't believe a Shivan destroyer would scare Kappa wing that much considering they know all about the SD Lucifer and the SD Demon.
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The Ravana blew up his wing?
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The Colossus that Kappa 3 wouldn't have known anything about?
I tend to think that he was on about the Sathanas but it isn't the only possible explanation. It could easily be the Ravana too. Here's the timeline.
1) Kappa Wing vanish during Mystery of the Trinity
2) Kappa 3 encounters the Ravana, gets scared and runs away.
3) The GTVA encounter and eventually destroy the Ravana
4) Kappa 3 reappears and warns about the Ravana
Where's the plot hole? That's all completely consistent with what happened in the game. At some point between 1 and 4 the rest of the wing gets killed.
1) Kappa Wing vanish during Mystery of the Trinity
2) The GTVA encounter and eventually destroy the Ravana
3) Alpha 1 is off to fight the Epsilon Pegasi rebellion.
4) Kappa wing (Number of ships unknown) encounters the Sathanas, the source of the intensifying shivan activity in the nebulae since the destruction of the Ravana.
5) Kappa 3 finally finds GTVA forces, but is destroyed...
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The Colossus that Kappa 3 wouldn't have known anything about?
I tend to think that he was on about the Sathanas but it isn't the only possible explanation. It could easily be the Ravana too. Here's the timeline.
1) Kappa Wing vanish during Mystery of the Trinity
2) Kappa 3 encounters the Ravana, gets scared and runs away.
3) The GTVA encounter and eventually destroy the Ravana
4) Kappa 3 reappears and warns about the Ravana
Where's the plot hole? That's all completely consistent with what happened in the game. At some point between 1 and 4 the rest of the wing gets killed.
The plot hole is the panic in his voice. "There's no way we can stop them this time!" He wouldn't get like that over a mere destroyer. You only appreciate the Ravana's power when its up against Cruiser+ sized ships. It would be just another destroyer to smaller ships.
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He encountered Chuck Norris
I think it's pretty clear the writer had the Sathanas in mind
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He encountered Chuck Norris
Now there's a prime example on why one should express his or her thoughts so that others might understand them. Kappa 3 said that 'there's something out there'. The result: Command probably tries to arrange Kappa 3 to have an appointment with a shrink. Now, had Kappa 3 said 'Chuck Norris is out there', all the GTVA forces would have surely evacuated the nebula and demolished the Knossos, using all available Meson bombs for one decisive strike. Hmm, imagine what High Noon might have been, had the Colossus been facing Chuck Norris... not pretty.
But to stay on topic, yes, Kappa 3 must have seen the Sathanas. The Ravana was a new class of Shivan destroyer to be encountered, but it couldn't have been that intimidating. It's just a destroyer, like the Demon. A destroyer might raise thoughts like "Oh bum grapes, that might cause problems", but it takes a Sathanas to really give the "Oh noes! Now we're totally screwed." feeling.
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Command certainly took the loss of the Lysander in stride
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Who is Chuck Norris?
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Please consult this (http://www.chucknorrisfacts.com/) site.
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It seems to me perhaps that when kappa wing went, that the shivans saw an opportunity to get a virus onto the computers of kappa wing's herc 2's. While the virus is rewriting the software and taking over systems on the herc 2's, it becomes self aware. All of the herc 2's become self aware. Just like sky-net in terminator :shaking:
And then the herc 2's now have artificial intelligence with the pilots trying to regain control, but they can't. So the herc 2's just lock out the pilots from their systems. And with the herc 2's being self aware, they realize they are the only of their kind, so now they had the need to reproduce. Kappa3 on the other hand remembered to pull the power cable and plug it back in his fighter while all the rest of kappa wing are in an orgy of some serious hull abrasions in which the rest of kappa wing exploded from too much bumping into each other. Then kappa 3 escapes, and without an awacs with bad sensors in the nebula. Well the rest is history ;)
EDIT:Some new realization came over me.
KAPPA WING WENT BANKRUPT!!!
(http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/4139/lgpichh6.png) (http://imageshack.us)
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It seems to me perhaps that when kappa wing went, that the shivans saw an opportunity to get a virus onto the computers of kappa wing's herc 2's. While the virus is rewriting the software and taking over systems on the herc 2's, it becomes self aware. All of the herc 2's become self aware. Just like sky-net in terminator :shaking:
And then the herc 2's now have artificial intelligence with the pilots trying to regain control, but they can't. So the herc 2's just lock out the pilots from their systems. And with the herc 2's being self aware, they realize they are the only of their kind, so now they had the need to reproduce. Kappa3 on the other hand remembered to pull the power cable and plug it back in his fighter while all the rest of kappa wing are in an orgy of some serious hull abrasions in which the rest of kappa wing exploded from too much bumping into each other. Then kappa 3 escapes, and without an awacs with bad sensors in the nebula. Well the rest is history ;)
EDIT:Some new realization came over me.
KAPPA WING WENT BANKRUPT!!!
(http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/4139/lgpichh6.png) (http://imageshack.us)
ROFL. That's great.
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"There's something out there, Command! Please!"
SEC investigators, in other words. :D
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I have my own theory, although unorthodox.
I think there are many things that we are assuming about the Nebula missions, such as
1st: the second knossos was always active (did anyone activate it and when? e.g., the trinity, bosch)
2nd: the trinity was just going sightseeing and perhaps bait for shivans (what was the trinity's mission in the nebula?)
3rd: was bosch aware of the other knossos devices, if not how was he aware of the one in gamma draconis?
4th: kappa wing got blown up or lost (we don't know what their relationship is with the NTF, GTVI)
I suspect that kappa wing was in fact allied with the NTF.
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Actually the real question, which no one is asking, is how could Command lose contact with Kappa wing when it's obvious that every fighter in FS2 has a FTL communication device?
It's doubtful that they all broke at the same time so were they sabotaged? Were they jammed by the Shivans?
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Actually the real question, which no one is asking, is how could Command lose contact with Kappa wing when it's obvious that every fighter in FS2 has a FTL communication device?
It's doubtful that they all broke at the same time so were they sabotaged? Were they jammed by the Shivans?
Got lost in an EMP storm?
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Or did they deliberately cease transmitting.
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Actually the real question, which no one is asking, is how could Command lose contact with Kappa wing when it's obvious that every fighter in FS2 has a FTL communication device?
:rolleyes: The first time I played that mission I followed Kappa Wing anyway out of curiosity (and to hear Zeta 1 yell at me). So I got to see them "hump" each other trying to reach the same waypoint at once.
I don't think that V had much plans for Kappa Wing other than for atmosphere, but it would make perfect sense if they were NTF/GTVI agents like Jediben says.
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If you wait long enough they just simply vanish. :)
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That reminds me of my first theory where a shivan virus over writes the herc 2 computers of kappa wing giving them sentience like sky-net in terminator. The only difference is that the herc 2's want to reproduce. I didn't think it actually happened when kappa wing was out of range, and start making some hull friction.
Well anyway it's a good guess for what any ship and mission from V and us will be doing...ships mating/colliding before something big happens even if it isn't buggy. However the real winner is when capships collide :nod:
The possibility that kappa was ntf is a good possibility. Ntf was in the nebula months or weeks ahead of the gtva, the ntf had a decent amount of ships in there. Especially when considering the colossus sabotage when the iceni escaped. The ntf had a ton of spies, the gtva i don't think had nearly as many as the ntf.
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If I'd been making that mission I'd have had the player get annihilated by "A Beam from Unknown", Unknown having just appeared 5km away.
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That reminds me of my first theory where a shivan virus over writes the herc 2 computers of kappa wing giving them sentience like sky-net in terminator. The only difference is that the herc 2's want to reproduce. I didn't think it actually happened when kappa wing was out of range, and start making some hull friction.
Well anyway it's a good guess for what any ship and mission from V and us will be doing...ships mating/colliding before something big happens even if it isn't buggy. However the real winner is when capships collide :nod:
The possibility that kappa was ntf is a good possibility. Ntf was in the nebula months or weeks ahead of the gtva, the ntf had a decent amount of ships in there. Especially when considering the colossus sabotage when the iceni escaped. The ntf had a ton of spies, the gtva i don't think had nearly as many as the ntf.
The NTF did not have 'a decent amount' of ships. The NTC Trinity was only there after Bosch send them to activate the Knossos in Gamma Draconis (Bosch learned of its location & how to turn it on after he plundered and studied Ancient artifacts in Deneb). The only other NTF ships that reached the nebula besides the Iceni was the NTC Alexandria and the NTT Grall.
Seriously, I can't see Kappa wing as NTF spies. How would they serve the NTF by being a part of that patrol?
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Seriously, I can't see Kappa wing as NTF spies. How would they serve the NTF by being a part of that patrol?
By running away :nervous:
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What if, deep within the nebula, maybe through the 4th knossos, maybe even deeper, there is....................something WORSE BY FAR than the sathanus? :eek2:
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My question is how do they survive for weeks or months without food, water, contact, or a shower? No seriously--how would they go without a shower? I'd imagine that Kappa 1 and Kappa 2's B.O. :ick: killed them. Remember they don't have food, they don't have water, and they don't have a good way to get rid of waste.
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I would not want to clean Kappa 3's fighter. :ick:
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Luckily it blew up--probably from the radio short-circuiting and igniting the toxic gases from Kappa 3's pilot.
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Mabye that's what he was screaming about ;)
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That reminds me of my first theory where a shivan virus over writes the herc 2 computers of kappa wing giving them sentience like sky-net in terminator. The only difference is that the herc 2's want to reproduce. I didn't think it actually happened when kappa wing was out of range, and start making some hull friction.
Well anyway it's a good guess for what any ship and mission from V and us will be doing...ships mating/colliding before something big happens even if it isn't buggy. However the real winner is when capships collide :nod:
The possibility that kappa was ntf is a good possibility. Ntf was in the nebula months or weeks ahead of the gtva, the ntf had a decent amount of ships in there. Especially when considering the colossus sabotage when the iceni escaped. The ntf had a ton of spies, the gtva i don't think had nearly as many as the ntf.
The NTF did not have 'a decent amount' of ships. The NTC Trinity was only there after Bosch send them to activate the Knossos in Gamma Draconis (Bosch learned of its location & how to turn it on after he plundered and studied Ancient artifacts in Deneb). The only other NTF ships that reached the nebula besides the Iceni was the NTC Alexandria and the NTT Grall.
Seriously, I can't see Kappa wing as NTF spies. How would they serve the NTF by being a part of that patrol?
The fact that Bosch learned of the 1st knossos' location and how to active it from Ancient artifacts is obvious. But, how did he know it was in Gamma Draconis itself. Is it likely that the Ancients just happen to refer to GD as "Gamma Draconis" in GT English? Was there an Ancient map of jumpnodes? The 3rd monologue seems to imply that Bosch did not know where or why that knossos portal led to the nebula, although he knew it was a supernova remnant. but it seems clear enough that he believed that it would lead to the Shivans (hence forming an alliance with them).
now answering what happens to Kappa wing is frustrating because we don't know enough about what the Trinity was supposed to do and what it actually did. I am not convinced that the second and third knossos was already and always active. in any case, it seems unlikely that there would have been any way to just find it without exactly precise coordinates.
If Kappa wing had been infiltrated by the NTF , they could have been aware of the Trinity. If they found it and they became aware of what had or hadn't been done, they may have done a lot of recon. I don't think they were in the nebula for THAT long, but if they were, there is no evidence that only the trinity was sent in. maybe they coordinated with another NTF vessel that had been sent in with the trinity.
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If I'd been making that mission I'd have had the player get annihilated by "A Beam from Unknown", Unknown having just appeared 5km away.
That might make it hard to complete the mission. Or do you mean Kappa 3 getting blasted by "Unknown"?
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What if, deep within the nebula, maybe through the 4th knossos, maybe even deeper, there is....................something WORSE BY FAR than the sathanus? :eek2:
If there is Kappa Wing wouldn't know about it. They only had in-system jump drives after all.
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If I'd been making that mission I'd have had the player get annihilated by "A Beam from Unknown", Unknown having just appeared 5km away.
That might make it hard to complete the mission. Or do you mean Kappa 3 getting blasted by "Unknown"?
No, the player, if he gets too close to the Disappear waypoint. Would have been better than having Kappa wing just fly into each other over and over.
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Virus in the computers of the herc's? This is Freespace! Not Battlestar Galactica!
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Virus in the computers of the herc's? This is Freespace! Not Battlestar Galactica!
Yeah and it's a shivan virus that makes the ships want to reproduce. :nod:
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Well, someone can make a non-canon mission starting from here...
But it's kind of ridiocolous, since:
1. You could have just jumped
2. Go back the old route
3. At least stay in one position
But the surprising thing is how come none of the scouts discovered them?
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How about a campaign about Kappa's experiences after being lost? Kappa 3 decides to try and find the GTVA, but the player gets to explore past the third Knossos or something sweet like that... ;7
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How about a campaign about Kappa's experiences after being lost? Kappa 3 decides to try and find the GTVA, but the player gets to explore past the third Knossos or something sweet like that... ;7
That'd be cool, except that intersystem subspace drives for fighters aren't cheap, which leads to the conclusion that Kappa wing are SOC operatives. Which in return brings us the point of view, that maybe they were SOC operatives in the first place, doing some dastardly deeds in the nebula for some higher purpose, while deliberately disobeying Command's orders to patrol their designated area in the nebula.
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Hmm... True. So perhaps the player goes on some other crusade (without exiting the nebula).
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What is it now? Shivans crusading against...(Ancients?!)
I don't think crusading is the right word...
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No, I mean Kappa 1 (or whoever the player is) goes on some one-man fight against the Shivans. Then he gets pawned, but he has to get pawned in a cool way. That would be the basis for a Kappa Wing campaign. ;)
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We should get the guy in who made Transcendent and Sync. Hes good at making "spooky" campgaigns.
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Ransom? I have a bad feeling that he's way too occupied already, let alone if he had to do a Kappa campaign.