Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: starlord on November 28, 2007, 09:26:10 am
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Hi, I'm starlord.
This is a plea to all renegade legion fans out there (there must still be some). I am trying to finish the story of the renegade legion universe and for that I need all info on the renegade (and TOG) capital ships.
Please help me so the project can continue. The story must be finished.
advice awaited eagerly.
best regards.
mike.
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I'd help, but I have no knowledge of the game and there's little info about it. Sorry
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Moved to gaming, you're more likely to get a response there.
Good luck :)
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Thanks: I think I found some renegades in the battletech series. :nod:
I desperately need those ships, which reminds me: you'll go haywire when you see them: they are uniquely beautiful and it's a crime not to have included them in more renegades space combat games (like jacob's star).
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Isn't this a board game?
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Yup! but a space combat game called battle for jacob's star was spawned out of this universe and I think it's great.
And I would like to see one day the story end.
Great leap today, I didn't find everything yet, but you can see the cap ships there (most of them, that is, as new designs like the seneca are still missing).
http://members.tripod.com/~Cwintel/leviathan.pdf (page 45 to 56).
And the interceptors are there: http://www.the-underdogs.info/games/r/renegade/files/renegade-ships.zip
please look at those ships, they rock! what would you think of flying a fighter against those leviathans? ;7
so long.
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I think I have the board game or at least something related to it in my collection at home, I'll have a look.
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Indeed there are some interesting designs.
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It would be a crime not to include those beauties in a freespace MOD. This is why I'm going to get working on refurbishing a story for it (it's going along great).
lars: did you see the shiva and syracuse? Those are my favourites, although the fulgur is great too, I LOVE the angular fin like designs of the TOG ships. Some of the newest designs are not included like the TOG seneca cruiser (one of my favourites too), I hope that when I have a scanner, I'll be able to scan a picture of it.
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Hey, scooby: With those ship pictures available, could you perhaps help me model them?
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Ok these do look better than what you sent me earlier. Theres a few that have caught my eye. Page 28, page 30 looks kilrathi-ish, page 36 looks like the dragon, too bad theres only the front pic, can't do much with that, page 54, looks nice, not sure if I can do correctly with two views, page 58, neat.
Hmmmm now this looks doable:
(http://www.nobleknight.com/imagecode/resize.asp?filename=RL5902.jpg&width=157&height=203)
http://www.nobleknight.com/ProductDetail.asp_Q_ProductID_E_2147350413_A_InventoryID_E_2147512461_A_ProductLineID_E_720_A_ManufacturerID_E_23_A_CategoryID_E_5_A_GenreID_E_ (http://www.nobleknight.com/ProductDetail.asp_Q_ProductID_E_2147350413_A_InventoryID_E_2147512461_A_ProductLineID_E_720_A_ManufacturerID_E_23_A_CategoryID_E_5_A_GenreID_E_)
Actually looks a lot like my Stalker bomber.
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The view reminds me a little bit of the Bearcat.
Beside modeling and Storyline...what about the weapons and gameplay? Have you allready some thoughts about that?
From just a quick look at the manual it seams to have basicly two weapon types. Missiles and lasers. Both come in about 100 different variations and seam to be placed in broadside formation/bays for most parts of the ships with some turrets here and there.
So fighters would more likely be there for taking out components of the caps while other capships provide the raw firepower to destroy an enemy capship.
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Hmm, the verutum! :nod:
Am I Right?
for the others, I'd say: 28: cingulum TOG corvette
30: renegade space gull med fighter
36: front view of a repulse renegade battleship (I think)
54: exeter renegade destroyer
58: pilum TOG med fighter
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Both of these ships (Shiva and Syracruse) are looking nice but I think I would prefere the Repulse or County as designs.
Overall the designs looks sleak and simple compared to most modern Scifi ships.
When just look at the Battletech Warships of the latest books. Man these are much different then the Union or Overlords that I have first seen when I started reading about Battletech.
Something I allways wanted was a Battletech mod in space. Seeing battles between these ships would be awesome. Navel ACs bolds that are ripping appart other ships armor, PPCs lighting up the space and hugh salvos of missiles flying from one ship to the other.....
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I think it's the verutum :confused:
@lars, it reminds me of the Karnenan (which my stalker was based on)
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actually, swarm attacks can prove very effective at destroying capships in renegade, although the precision strikes are enormously important in those cases (destroying the VLCA com antennas or damage guns).
Also, the ships have laser broadsides (turrets), extensive missile batteries AND spinal mount weapons (consider those heavy laser cannons similar to freespace 2's beam cannons) going right aft to stern of the ship), the shiva class even has a special forward one capable of cracking a planet's crust or frying other ships in a single salvo.
My plos would be the following (I'll make it quick).
campaign 1: (picks up just after the renegade: battle for jacob's star plot where supposidely, you defended the jacob's star system in the messana pocket (the band of territory going deep in TOG space in the shannedam county of the alaric grand dukedom:http://members.tripod.com/~Rintel/Data/Campaign3a.htm ). The TOG advance has been badly shaken and the moment for an effective counterattack couldn't have been better. Now that crucible command in jacob's star has been reinforced, It will be our coordinating center. The mission will be to prevent any retaliatory TOG attack on the messana pocket while finding the TOG C and C base in shannedam and destroying it. This should release the grip of the TOG in alaric.
campaign 2: With the destruction of the command TOG base in the remote system of sparta hill, we have confirmation that the TOG is hurting. Similar offensives have been mounted in the birchshire, pembroke, yoventrov and rift counties simultaneously and have left the enemy staggering. However, the analysis of the computer cores of the seneca class TOG cruiser "bane warder"before it's destruction has given us troubling rumours: This cruiser is TOG's cutting edge, available only in small numbers to the "lictor", the TOG's secret bureau, responsible of all covert operations and the information (albeit incomplete) we have extracted from it confirms abnormal enemy activity in the gilpin cosmic west fringe. the only thing we know of this TOG operation is it's codename: "vae victis". You are to depart from our newly established toenails in the rift county, and find the "vae victis" project, gain every possible amount of info on it and advise as to how to treat the menace, whatever it is. Our operations have finally left the enemy reeling in alaric, we cannot lose now.
Campaign 3: congratulation again to the 30425th for enabling swift capture of the vae victis installation. Our scientists confirm the fact that this device is not a weapon in itself, however, the news are far from good. The Vae victis project uses the unique properties of the newly named charon system's cluster of black holes to litterally shatter the limites of ship's faster than light engines, making jumps of unheard lengths by opening a T-space rift up to nearly any immaginable system and to suppress the effect of time (an effect we believe to be caused by the proximity of the black holes). Given to our enemies, this ability would enable them to hit our core command systems by leaping over the established frontline and crush us with ease. Yet the renegade covert operations bureau has come out with a plan: The station's personnel are continuing to transmit TOG progress data so with any luck, it will be a while before they know we have captured the device. Using the lictor seneca we captured at drydock, we will infiltrate TOG space were we are to head to new rome in absolute secrecy. Our ships, dubbed the tourmentor, will proceed to the heart of the TOG (although not by a direct route as the TOG core systems have been amputated from the station's map computer as a measure of precaution), through a series of quick jumps. Once there, you will have to destroy in one swift strike the imperial senate, effectively terminating ceaser julianus and his overlords. We have been informed by probing in the tourmentor's journal that the senate is due to a meeting in 2 months, which would be the decisive moment to strike. Should you be uncovered, contain the news of an invasion by terminating the enemy, feel free to use at will the captured TOG interceptors and remember that everything (including the dreaded imperial guards) will be intend on defending ceaser.
Campaign4: the attack has succeeded: new rome (incidentally known as earth) has been destroyed by an antimatter device triggered with the destruction of the senate building. The loss of nova roma has brought agony to the TOG. However, all is not yet done: we have observed rising factions emerging from the TOG's ruin, one of them being the lictor, headed by high praetor augustus tarquini. Others consisting of loyalists, or neo ceaser preachers. The TOG must not be allowed to reform. You are to fan the flames between the factions until war looses the attruition for them. It also can be counsidered a valid objective to separate the ssora from the humans and to bring the ssora to swear allegiance to the commonwhealth: their lost might would be a crippling blow to the factions. Once command approuves it, return to the entry system so the vae victis device can return you to commonwhealth space. We have taken alaric thanks to your efforts, the other dukedoms, much less protected as conquered since hundreds of hears by the TOG, will prove extremely easy to retake now, given the TOG's collapse.
Campaign5: you are back and have brought the mission we have given you to an astounding success: the factions are warring against themselves, once inferiour to us, we will invade former TOG space in order to prevent any such disaster from arising, the narams, baufrin and kessrith have been attributed their former systems and the ssora have signed their allegiance to the commonwhealth. Yet before vea victis was deactivated, the remains of the lictor invaded our systems again: high praetor augustus has taken command of ceaser's flagship: the imperator and is using it to create an orgy of destruction on peaceful uninhabited worlds. the imperator is the pride of the former TOG's naval fleet: a heavily modified shiva battleship, 25% bigger, with 3 special spinal mounts and a cloaking system (similar to those mounted on the lictor's pugio prototype fighters). The imperator must be stopped at all costs, before more casualties happen. Be warned, the lictor's very elite NYX squadron, will contest the planned destruction of augustus and the imperator.
WHEW!!!!! ;7
Here's the story. hope you like it, and I hope I'll hear your comments on this.
best regards.
mike.
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As the campaigns are layed out now its to straight to victory. A classic thing would be to let the destruction of the senate fail.
Give the campaigns some twists and near loosing pathes or even make a complete campaign a "you lose and retreat" part.
Currently the entire thing seams a bit boring as it goes straight to victory.
Also you might concider to make that story an open ending so that there is room for other people to tell storys...that is if there are any people who are interested.
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The thing is the renegade legion and the commonwhealth are nearing absolute defeat with the might of the TOG and all, so this attempt is really a last ditch through.
If I decided the senate would not be destroyed, wouldn't this mean doom for the renegades? Kind of a bad ending, isn't it?
Also, I hope you'll forgive the clumbsiness, but this is the first time I write a campaign script, and even If this campaign was meant to be a WCsaga MOD, I was intending it to follow the freespace system (and the freespace campaigns don't seem to be boring to me, even if they are linear): victory only. Yet I may be wrong, no? :p
Now don't get me wrong though: I thouroughly enjoy the fact that you commented in the first place and I see what you mean by your ideas: It would be closer to wing commander that way.
But I have to take into account my oh so very limited capabilities :P
oh well!
best regards.
besides: at the end of renegade: battle for jacob's star, the story was up for us to explore and develop, and instead: the universe just died. According to my point of view, the story must be finished. Other fans still have the possibility to exploit the various battles in the rift or yolentrov counties between campaign 1 and 2 for instance, etc... (at least, that's my point of view).
But I will already need help if I am to plan out every single campaign mission, so can I do the partial victory/failure variants? I'm not that sure.
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The "looser wins" kind of story is told in endless variation in all kind of storys. Its allways heartbreaking when the loosers win in the end.
If you want to improve your story you might want to check books about drama and epic kinds of story telling. Some basics taken from that can improve your story a lot I think.
Lets take Freespace1+2 for example. Lets aside the characters...that dosn't exist...you get basicly this.
1) A very familiar/cliché setting. Good guys (you) and bad guys (Vasudans).
2) You got the first plot point. A new enemy appears (Shivans)
3) You combine yourself with your former enemy and think you will win since together you are stronger.
4) Next point...you don't win. You are thrown back and back.
5) Slowly you regain the upper hand and fight back.
6) The obviouse victory that comes with a heavy price.
That is the very basic storyline of FS (as far as I remember it).
Its interesting because it goes up and down and up and down. Also it was, to that point, something unaspected to have a former enemy as your friend. At least its the first time I remeber that it happend in this kind of strong way in a game.
Lets see for FS2
1) You think you can handle everything and only some strange guys are left.
2) A mysterie reveals itself and one of these strange dudes goes crazy.
3) Shivans return
4) You still think you can kick there ass.
5) Shivans prove you wrong and blow up a star.
6) You are the looser. You couldn't solve the mysterie, the Shivans kicked you around and earth is still lost. Conculusion....cliffhangar to [wasn't there dude that shoots you when you say the name?!] ...you get what I mean ^_^
So the basic shape of the FS storyline is full of turns and to me its not even close to anything like victory. If it would have been so I would have aspected that at the end of it we would have saved earth without loosing it or that we have solved what Admiral "beer" Bosh was bubbling all about and kicked the Shivans to there homeworld.
Wing Commander has the more forward lined story, if you only count in the games.
WC1 go out and save the sector. Done
WC2 go out and save another sector. Done
WC3 go out and finish the war. Done
WC4 Why the hell I am here, what should I do? Oh there are the bad guys *bang bang* World saved ^_^
WCP See WC1
WCSO See WC1 secret missions.
What made Wing Commander so greate with a simple storyline like that? Easy, it was the way of telling the story and the cool characters that where everywhere.
If you read the books and storys around the game you get a much deeper and rich universe that also has all kind of plotpoints and twists.
Why am I telling you all of this? Well I just want to give you a familiar example on how you could make your story more interesting and enjoyable.
I am not familiar with the story behind what you are doing and how far you know it yourself but you might get some nice hints and ideas on how to develop the story by re-reading some of the source materials. Maybe you could read some of the novels from this universe, if you haven't allready.
I only got one book...one I love and hate at the same time called "Damned if we do".
The writer takes forever to get the story going and explains and explains.....and then after about 2/3 of the book a story onfolds that is so totaly different written and cool that I was angry that it ended.
Well anyway maybe there are other books. I have only seen that the very first book was writen by one of my favorite BT writers William H. Keith Jr. I love the Grey Death Legion books.
PS: Very good example of the "underdog wins the day" scenario.
As for the posibilitys of the engine. Tolwyn has just shown in his Techdemo to WC4 that a mission branching system is possible and its also possible in other ways with the use of SOC missions and normal mission branching...as far as I remeber it.
So you can surely let the mission of destroying the Senat fail and continue the story and even then come out victorious. The battle will be just much harder.
Maybe you should make yourself free from the limits you might see and develop the story and then go back to see what of these parts can be done using the engine. That way you wouldn't restrict your creative flow.
At least that is my experiance when I work on other stuff. When I limit myself from the beginning I tend to drop good ideas. Later I regretting it because I found a way to solve the problem. Also if you don't worry about what you can't do your ideas come up much easier.
Well that is what I think. I wish you good luck with your project.
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I see what you mean. I'll try to see (perhaps the branshing missions is the key after all) if I can get the story to be a little more "enjoyable" yet to me (but then again, this is perhaps I'm a newbie), to allow new rome not to be destroyed would be as alien as to allow kilrah not to be destroyed. see the drift? :D
Oh well, I'll try to pull out the ideas. Thanks for the support anyway.
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The little differance is that Kilrah is destroyed by the officials. New Rom isn't or is it?
Even if I only read one book and parts of the manual. It dosn't seam to be that this universe would have the technologie to destroy the entire planet. I think it would be ok to say we sneak in and kill all the higher ups. To make it more intresting to the players lets say they meet at a space station that the player can blow away.
Also there is a little bit of political correctness from my point of view. I don't like how in today games everywhere the mashroom-bombs are poping up and make it look like that would be normal warfare. It isn't and blowing up planets is the counterpart to that in scifi games to me. That is my totaly personal point of view. When I played WC3 for the first time I didn't care. I was young, there was a bunch of pixels that blow up, ending credits and after that I got out to my friends and played tag...or whatever...you get the point.
Today I see this a bit different. As said its just a thought I have today and when you blow up planets make it beliveable and realy nesessary. Something like your "Oh there was a secret bomb that blow up the earth. Sorry for that we didn't know it. Thing like that happen." Dosn't realy do it. If you want to keep that kind of storypart make it so that its realy the only and last chance. That even a blind one can see the reason.
In WC we had the failure of the Behemoth, the fact that the Kilrathi where pushing Confed back at all fronts and even then Blair wasn't happy about the destruction of Kilrah. We also knew from the "Battle of earth" that the Kilrathi would destroy all of humanity if they aren't stopped.....or get bored. (Some parts where never mentioned in the game but in the books)
So a big event like this should have a proper reason and dramatic plot to it.
Oh and a thought on a total differnt matter. When you plan on doing kind of episodes...think about cliffhangers ^_^
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No no: here, destroying a planet simply means rendering it unhabitable (breaking it's crust, etc..): battleships can do that, actually: the exact expression would be to lay waste to an entire planet.
As for the episodes: I'm not there yet: No freders, no associates as a matter of fact, and besides, I study. :doubt:
But it would be great to see it done one day, and I'll contribute the best I can!
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Its still an interesting project with a kind a fresh universe. I wish you good luck and good ideas.
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Well, who knows, I may get lucky, one day. and we may see it completed...
However, good luck wishes are always appreciated. :nod:
On a side note, I'm glad the renegade legion convinced you it did not deserve to die until the story was finished.
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I don't see any reason why I should wish that the mod dosn't get finished.
Its not that I am a big fan of it or anything but that dosn't mean I should stop others, does it?
Also making a quick post that might help dosn't hurt me much and I like fresh ideas and not so much used scenarios.
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I have finished my search for the renegade cap ship classes: however, I don't have pictures for those ones (as they are perhaps newer designs).
TOG Adscripticius class gunboat (this is the smallest cap ship class: uncalable of t-space travel but very effectuve at planetary defense (capable of atmosphere flight) or base defense: use swarm maneuvers to crush enemies by their numbers. Capable of being transported by capships =0.15Km.
TOG cataphractarii class escort: the largest of the patrol ships (larger than corvettes and gunboats). This one is basically a big corvette with inproved weaponry featuring a spinal mount (although small). This renders it effective in cap ship fights. This is the latgest ship capable of being carried by larger ships, in small numbers =0.3Km.
TOG Morkanium destroyer class carrier. Basically a stripped down destroyer capable of transporting 130 interceptors (half a wing). as all destroyers are fitted with anti grav engines giving them atmospheric capabilities, this one can launch all it's interceptors directly in the atmosphere of a planet (something a xerxes or canis can never do). =1.1km long with a huge frontal hangar bay and the usual vertical fin under the ship (close to the tail).
TOG Canis cruiser class carrier: The biggest of all carrier classes: this class can ferry 3 wings (1080 interceptors) in the heat of battles. The destruction of those carriers are a great loss to the enemy. =2.3 Km, unknown design, but believed slightly close to the xerxes.
Well, thats it for the missing designs (this and the following: http://www.madcoyote.com/renleg/int/int-b.html , where you will find the courrier type corvette (cingulum, which is weakest), the assault corvette, and the carrier corvette (capable of carrying 6 interceptors): all these corvettes can be carried by larger ships (destroyer and beyond) in limited numbers (along with escorts and gunboats).
There is also a type of freighter in operation for both the renegades and the TOG: I would give it the size and capabilities/design of the asmodeus shivan freighter.
So, scooby: Would you like to try to model a capship? (say the shiva or syracuse)? :nod:
So long, I'll try to scan (one day) the battle for jacob's star manual in order to give you the renegade illustrious destroyer carrier, the renegade inflexible cruiser, and the TOG seneca cruiser (the newest and sexiest design the TOG have, In small numbers, which is exclusive so far to the lictor).
so long.
starlord.
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As a reply to you, lars: I'll tell you I gave a thought to the multibranch campaign, and I think it'll be the best option, rather thansystematical failure of destroying the senate. To this end, I have 3 endings in mind:
bad ending: the commonwhealth are overthrown by the soon to be victorious TOG pouring out from an unknown location ;7, the messana has been taken in it's entirety and it's ressources ( ores and gennium arsenic crystals for laser cannon fabrication) now serve the enemy. The capital system of the county, defiance, is on the verge of falling to the onslaught. In short, the commonwhealth is forced to retreat from shannedam county (the cultural center of the alaric grand dukedom). In short, the complete fall of alaric is a near certainty. While the renegades and commonwhealth will continue to battle in other theatres,the fact that the TOG seems to appear out of nowhere behind our lines makes the situation look more than grim, as the dukedoms beyond alaric are no more than lightly defended.
Average ending: The attack on new rome failed and the preplanned TOG invasion fleet is en route to commonwhealth space as we speak. Nevertheless, after the safe return in gilpin of the tourmentor, we destroyed the "vae victis" device, shutting down the path the TOG invasion fleet was due to follow. Hopefully this added time will mean we will be able to withstand the invaders. Yet due to incomplete intelligence gathering, the odds for victory are uncertain, just as much as the lengh of this war will be.
Successful ending: The TOG has been destroyed, it's left factions are left warring against each other, commonwhealth space is beeing constantly liberated, and the lictor has been annihilated. The war that has raged on for centuries has waned to an end at last, thanks mostly to the daring efforts of your wing. As victory finally graces us, the dawning of a new future is coming.
So, what do you think?
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Sounds a lot better to me. Now try to see if there are more places where you can add different pathes like this.
I know it might be hard but I think it could be worth it, storywise.
From WC1 or 2 I have once seen a diagram of the mission branching. It was like you looked at a Tree with many many splittings. Mostly it was the same mission with more or less enemys but sometimes there where even bigger changes...depending on how often you screw up a mission ^_^
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yeah I saw it too: and there will be several more branching paths with campaign 4 and 5 (after the TOG's death), one being the reunification of a new TOG and the election of a new ceaser, and the other simply not being able to stop the imperator from entering into renegade space with a high loss of civilians on a lot of planets being bombarded.
Also, I thought that during campaign 3, the renegades will stealthily take control of other ships, and perhaps instead of taking the direct approach of destroying the senate, after a failed attempt, it would be decided to ram the stolen seneca tourmentor directly into the building (something like a desperate attempt).
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Ok, I made a synopsis on capital ship weaponry: those leviathans are armed to the teeth:
first of all: the first weapon capital ships are destined to use are their gun bays (those come in 25/50/100 gun varieties): Those bays consists of heavy laser cannons clustered together in a tight grooping (25/50 or 100 depending on the bays): Those bays are made to fire simultaneously in salvos, making up a very potent weapon exchange between ships. heavy ships like the shiva have about 20 bays (most heavy) in the starboard/port/aft/stern sections allowing the ship to saturate the area with laser fire from virtually any angle.
Second: nearly all classes (except the carriers since they transport additionnal interceptors) possess a spinal mount weapon of varrying power (the shiva's being the strongest): this cannon, as it's name inplies is so big it runs through all the ship's superstructure. This cannon is basically a very big linear mass driver (allways forward facing) hurling a huge projectile called a crowbar at near relativity speed after having charged it in a plasma chamber: no doubt those cannons would be identical visually speaking to the freespace 2 beam cannons (with the shiva's E type being the sathanas's BFred).
Third: Some ships have a missile system of varrying power: However those missiles are nothing to compare to interceptor missiles: those are big nuclear warheads capable of being launched in swarms in virtually any angle from the ship's silos. (think wing commander capship missiles). Those missiles are so big they are destroyable.
Forth: each vessel has an abundance of turrets (although the exact number is unknown) as they are being referred to as "turret factor" with the biggest one being 6. But it can be safely assumed that those turrets are virtually covering all the ship's angles: therefore, they are no doubt numerous. Those turrets serve as point defense against capship missiles and interceptor attacks (each turret can mount any type of interceptor caliber weapons (lasers, mass drivers, EPC's, NPC's, cone lasers, thorium phase inducers) and missiles. Each turret can carry up to 6 cannons.
Would the freespace engine handle a prolonged weapon exchange with those factors?
Also, concerning the carriers: while every ship containing a normal number of interceptors can launch them at a rate of 6 per launch (1 squadron), The carriers it seems can deploy one wing (360 interceptors) in a single launch :nervous: Is this feasable?
Capital ships (destroyer and beyond) are shielded: So much in fact that swarms of interceptors are required to attack in order to break the shield (their weapons otherwiseare deflected very easily (including missiles). Some exceptions exist however with the tchak'mul strike fighter and his heavy gatling mass drivers (4) or the new vrak'tar and his miniature spinal mount (think wing commander prophecy heavy plasma cannon (devastator)). Therefore, cap ship assault will require a big number of interceptors appearing simultaneously. Is it possible? The tactic for such an assault (followed by the 2 opponents generally) consists of the interceptors battling against each other while the capships start to fight amonst themselves, then surviving interceptors move on to the capships, helping with their destruction by sniping at sub systems like shield generators, weapon control, VLCA comm arrays, turrets bays, or the spinal mount weapon. It will be seen at some point that a torpedo will have been designed to be mounted on interceptors: those torpedoes, capable of percing the capship's shield, can right away be targeted at the shield generators, rendering the ships quickly vulnerable to interceptor weapons and armor damage.
Regarding the patrol ships: the gunboat has 2 turrets of 4 cannons each, can not travel faster than light, yet has a shield capable of power allocation like the big cap ships: meaning it can elect to allocate power to a shield covering a quadrant of it's choice of equalise the shields, etc... Also, the gunboat has several interceptor calibre cannons fore and aft.
The corvettes have the same shield as the gunboat and have 2 turrets: Even though the light corvettes have normal beam weapons like the gunboat (however more plentiful), the assault corvette and the carrier corvette have 2 small weapons bay fore and aft (as wellas the 2 turrets of 4 cannons each). Each corvette is faster than light travel capable, the carrier corvette can deploy 6 fighters (1 squadron) of interceptors.
The escort can transport 12 fighters (2 squadrons), has 4turrets of 4 cannons each and has 4 small weapons bays (fore/aft/starboard/port) Also, the escort mounts one small spinal mount.
All patrol class ships (gunboats, all corvettes and escorts) can be carried along with interceptors in cap ships of destroyer class and beyond (carriers included).
Except for some interceptors like the space gull, all interceptors in general, patrol class ships and destroyer class ships are capable of atmospheric flight.
Next I'll give you a description of weapons (mass drivers, EPC,NPC, lasers, missiles, etc...)
Note that the renegades and commonwhealth have also static stations known as installations: those have their own subsystems and weapons (similar to capships) yet they don't have spinal mounts.
That's it.
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Gun Bays:
So when in the book it says 100 37.5/20 it means I got 100 guns with 37.5m length and 20cm diameter. Damage is determend by range?
Thats is a lot of weaponfire when you remeber that these are most likely close to each other in this kind of bay. There is also the limitation that a bay can only fire at one target at once.
I would imagne them to be like gunports on old sailing warships. Fixed to a very small firing arc. I would use a short beam animation with a long charge animation. That would give fighterpilots the posibility to get out of the way because a blast of such a batterie would surely kill them instandly when they get in the way. This is just a gameplay thought. Surely you could make it surprising but I think it would also be a greate effect to represent the greate amount of energie that needs to be "collected" to charge these bays.
Also would it be possible to have each bay be a single weapons that only has many beams comming out of it? That way you could make sure that all of them target the same target.
Spinal Mounts:
I don't know if I would make the spinal mount a beamcanon. You said its a massdriver / plasma weapon. Maybe an animation as TBP uses it for there massdrivers (Centrauri) would be a good choice. At least at my opinion.
Missile systems:
I think the reference to Wing Commanders Capshipmissiles would be the best fitting. I think it is possible to have these missiles beeing launched like on Stargate Ships....there is a name for this kind of missile launch but I keep forgetting it. Still it would be quite cool to have this kind of missile launch for these big missiles.
Turrets:
This could become a problem with the numbers as well as with the placement. I think you should keep the number a bit lower and place them as good as possible to cover all of the ship surface. Surely you should check that a ship with a higher turret number has more turrets but I think that will become a balance thing beside the technial problem.
I am not sure but I think for multipart turrets the current limit was about 50? Set that as a max number and then scale the others down accordingly.
Shielding
Saga has shielded capships so it should be possible to shield these too. Only point is I have forgotten if it was possible to give different weapons different impacts for shields so that you could make it so that the smaller Interceptors are nearly useless...except in greate numbers. Only the bigger ones get through.
I allways liked that kind of design. Its also very WingCommanderish ^_^
Gunboats, Corvettes and Escorts. I kind of thinking about makeing them player flyable. It depends of there size and if they have any forward mounted weapons the player can use for himself. Its also a matter of the size of these ships and what kind of "physiks" you want the game to have.
Still I could imagne a near newton like way where you can set your gunboat to slide and pass by a capship while your forward guns wrack havok at the enemy weaponbays.
The other option would be to give just these ships the option to slide as the Wing Commander Arrow can or its possible with the BTRL ships.
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Regarding the patrol ships:
Gunboat: 0.15Km
corvettes: 0.2 to 0.3 Km (depending on the class)
escort: 0.4Km
Those ships are still quite big really, I wounder if they could be player flyable. On the other hand perhaps the player could play as a gunner on those ships (controlling a turret).
Besides: regarding the fact of carrying ships, can the game make possible the fact that a ships as "small" as the carrier corvette can carry 6 interceptors?
Than again, can the warships (destroyer and beyond) launch patrol ships as well as fighters? For instance, can a destroyer launch fighters and a carrier corvette or escort and can that corvette or escort launch it's OWN fighters afterwards? Here we have a unique case of inter-carrying ships: a carrier into a carrier.
also, can capships (up to destroyers which are true warships) descend into the atmosphere? When something as big as a destroyer is hit, it would be good to see it crash on the ground. Can a destroyed ship (while exploding in minor explosions) be set to change course to the ground? In freespace, a ship in such a state is somewhat coherent, as it is still solid, for instance.
Regarding carriers, Is it possible for the game engine to launch a wing of fighters simultaneously? Would it only be possible for the engine to control the number of interceptors needed in a capship fight? It seems that in those partucular fights, interceptors will be much more numerous than either in freespace or in WCsaga.
And something else also, as you may have noticed, the designs for the gunboat, escort,morkanium destroyer class carrier some fighters like the pugio, vrak'tar, tchak'mul and ssora fighter sstarotht and the canis cruiser class carrier and the old ULTOR TOG battleship are missing. It will be no doubt necessary to "invent" those again while inspiring ourselves from the other designs.
And regarding shields, is it possible for capship's IA to manage the shield in their preferable way? For instance, when a cingulum corvette is attacked by interceptors on the port side exclusively, can the corvette concentrate all shield power to the port side so as to have more efficient protection? This would add a whole new thread of tactics to engage cap ships.
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Indeed these ships are bigger then I aspected them to be. So these wouldn't be good player ships. The gunnery idea also isn't fitting in since that is not possible to my knowledge.
As for carrier ships. That could mostly be faked and should. I even think there is a limit on the number of ships you can have at the same time. The number of fighters that can start at the same time is most likely limited by the size of the hangar they are launched from. Also there is a fixed limit for the numbers of fighters in a wing. I think it was 6.
I am not so sure about all these groundmission stuff. I think you could have groundmissions with any ships you would like to be there but ships falling apart as you discribed aren't possible to my knowledge.
About shield changeing..I don't know how the AI handles this. But since FS wasn't initaly made to have caps with shields I doubt that the AI will do this.
I thought again about the weapon bays on capships. I think there is an overall limit to the weapons you can add to a ship and I think it was quite close to 100 for fixed weapons. So a weapons-bay must be presented with a fake. So that you only got one weapon entry but it shows 100guns firing at the same time and target.
I don't know if that is possible. Maybe you should ask about it in the modding department when you get to the point that a mod is possible. AKA you find someone to model, texture, TBL and FRED all this stuff.
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Gunnery is not possible? How come? In WCsaga, don't players have the possibility to control the turret of , say, a longbow?
Also, I'm sorry, I didn't quite get that point about the carriers: Would it be possible to have patrol carriers (escorts and carrier corvettes) to launch from warships and them to launch fighters? Come to think of it, can the freespace engine handle a warship launching a patrol ship (gunboat, corvette, escort) as those are bigger than interceptors?
Also, a thread was started in the modding section, but it was quickly forgotten. However, I didn't have a quarter of the info I now have displayed on this thread so it would be worth restarting. I just hope some persons (more than last time) will be attracted to this, or esle the only thing I'll be doing is bothering the moderators. I'll ask if it is possible to start a new renegade legion MOD thread.
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Also, I was thinking about one thing regarding the weapons bays of capships: why not make a gun component (sort of turret) this way: a big cluster of guns (melded together like the tubes of an organ instrument) that would register as 1 gun. Actually, the fact of nicnaming them the "organs" is quite attractive too.
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Gunnery
As said not possible to my knowledge. In Sage you also only got control over the forward guns but not the turrets. Still I don't mind that because the turret AI is quite good and most likely better then me.
Carrier carrier
Never tried this but it could be possible. Also a question to ask. I would guess it could be done with some hacks.
weapon bays
I just thought "Stalinorgel" or Katjuscha/Katyusha, I think thats there original name. ^_^
As for weapons. There is a difference between how they are geometriewise (look), how they are registerd in the tables and how the effect looks.
Because of the limits of possible turrets and the big number of guns in one bay, I mean 100 guns in one bay ! Thats more then most ships that are used in the FS have at all...as far as I know.
So the question is if its possible to have a weaponsbay that visualy shows the player 100guns firing at the same time, in whatever formation they will be build and still have them all count as just one weapon.
This would be like haveing one turret with multiple beams.
Next question would be how damage is handeld. If its just one turret would the damage be devided for each beam seperatly or would there be only one bean that does damage and the others aren't.
As for asking...I think if you can formulate your questions well I don't see any reason why people shouldn't answere them...except they don't know the answere themself ^_^
Just make a new thread or dig up the old one. I think I would just make a new thread where you make a list of questions you have got.
PS: to give a better idea of how a 100 37.5 30 weaponbay might look like I made this quick image.
I noticed that the length of the barrels compared to their width is totaly stupid looking IMO. Still this is a design quiestion for you and whoever will make the ships for you. This is just a 5min job to get a rough idea what it could look like. To me I won't like to get hit by such a brute force that these ships can unleash.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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WOW, It may have taken 5 minutes as you say, but this is exactly what I'm looking for. Those death dealing organs are SUPERB (and when a bay like this is disable by interceptor fire, This will mean ALL Guns in that bay are disabled).
Right: I'll tell you later about the last 2 unique points of the game: recon missions and planetary ground drop bombing from an interceptor. Also (but I think this will be simple), the game will need an auto pilot system (like WCsaga) and take offs/landings from the hangar.
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Whats so special about recon missions?
Planetary missions are possible but need a lot of attention to details.
Autopilot, langding and starting from a carrier are also not a big problem. Saga does these kind of things in nearly every mission.
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Regarding recon missions: things are a little different: In renegade, when you recon, you must mount a recon pod on one of your hard points (where you normally attach missiles), since recon is reserved for light interceptors such as the launcea or cheetah, dogfighting in those conditions will require more concentration (especially in a cheetah as this fighter has only 1 hardpoint (containing the data pod in that case: so NO missiles).
In Battle for jacob's star, when reconing, the enemy fleet is VERY far ahead of you (actually, it is only an image so you can't fly up to the enemy ships). They can only be seen visually. At that moment, you must select the data pod as your weapon, pull the trigger while having the fleet in your sights for 30 seconds (when you start reconning the fleet, you see a lock on sign near it). A sound tone indicates a completed scan (after 30 seconds).
Is it possible to scan a whole fleet in one go from that distance and to register a sensor pod as a "weapon" that can take a hard point and require firing?
Also, chaff pods require a hard point to be mounted on. Meaning you have to consider the load out of your interceptor's hard point with strategy.
Regarding planetary missions, I was woundering if it would be possible to include drop bombs as a weapon also. This would mean that when a bomb is selected, a ground telepointer would appear, marking the spot where the bomb would blow. This telepointer would takeinto account the angling of the interceptor and it's speed.
Those bombs would be perfect against tanks or TOG ground legions.
Which brings me to this: is it possible to model legions of soldiers (since they are small)? They would keep a preset corse while retaining their cohesion yet they must be thought as a "swarm", meaning you cannot target it and to destroy it you must "sweep" it completely (as it takes hits, it will shrink volume since soldiers inside it will die, etc...) Naturally since soldiers (legionnaries) all have rifles, the legion can fire at your interceptor from any part. I hope you see what I mean (even if it is somewhat difficult).
Oh, I don't think this will be a problem, but several interceptors can mount more than 2 primary banks of weapons (cannons). For instance, the avenger has no missiles, but has 2 wing mounted lasers, 2 wing mounted mass drivers AND one bow mounted EPC.
I think that we have now covered all of the "unique characteristics" of the renegade legion universe.
Next I'll describe the weapons (interceptor cannons and interceptor spinal mount (vrak'tarr only) and missiles. This should be easy as there aren't as much as in freespace.
so long.
P.S: Oh, and when I'll have finished the descriptions of the weapons, I'll start a new thread in modding. With all we have covered recently, more persons are bound to be interested this time (At least I hope).
bye!
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Recon missions
I think you will have to change some parts of it. For example its possible to scan ships but not a complete fleet...except you trick around a bit and make a fleet to be one model but then you will most likely hit the limits for polycounts and stuff. Also these ships wouldn't be independent anymore but when you hit one you hit all at the same time.
Another solution could be to use the image of a fleet and set an invisible placeholder object in space that you can target and scan. In that case you would have to place the fleet very far away or find another solution to keep the player from going to close.
First thing that comes up my mind is to let a swarm of enemys get close to your own position so that you have a very little timewindow before you are swarmed by enemys and can't finish your recon job.
Another point is that I doubt that you could make a scaning device as a hardpoint replacement. What you could do is strip of the player from selecting his weapons loadout, give him the scanner and tell him that this pod is requiered to boost his fighters sensors so he can't have any missiles...or whatever mounted in addition.
The make the pod in a way that the player can't fire it. I think that could be done by giveing the pod a lock-on requierment to fire but let it never log on to something.
Same problem with chafts. By default they are stored in your fighter and not in an external hardpoint. I don't know of any solutions or workarounds to this.
Drop bombs
I think it would be quite possible to make some kind of bomb but not in the way you discribed it. Most likely you could create a slow movieing missile that needs a lock-on to a groundtarget and then flys in a more or less balistic way. I think there was something like a ballistic thing in the launcher to select.
A special pointer isn't possible to my knowledge.
Soldiers
This one is problematic I think. You could maybe create a box that is textured with an animated texture that shows soldiers running around and give it a weapon to simulate backfire from the soldiers.
Problem is that it would most likely impossible to take out specific targets or let the crowd become smaller the more you hit them. I think the best solution would be one bomb one kill and breake up the "legion" into smaller troop contingents.
# of weapons on fighters
The limit is 3 different primary weapons and 3 secondary types if weapons AFAIK.
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Truly great work: I truly like the solutions you proposed to the following problems and I think that actually all are quite good.
I Give you here a document on interceptor weapons:
http://files.the-underdogs.info//games/r/renegade/files/renegade.pdf
Here you will find info on: lasers (gold/orange bolt, similar to WCprophecy's tachyon guns), electron particle cannons (silvery/blue bolt rapidly fading with distance), neutron particle cannons (emerald green bolt), thorium phase inducers (unknown as they don't appear in battle for jacob's star), cone lasers (I would very much to see those in a dogfight: same as lasers but cone bolts allowing higher chance of reaching the target, although disipates more quickly than the standard laser) and mass drivers (orange spherical shots). (The special fighter spinal mount (vrak'tarr only) is not there, as the vrac'tarr is a newer design: For this cannon, I was thinking as something slightly similar to the wing commander prophecy devastator's heavy plasma cannon).
You'll find also everything on missiles:from more devastating to more accurate: dumbfire, radiation intensity seeking (say heat seeker), surface scanning silhouette (say image recognition) transponder guided missiles (say friend or foe) and hell missiles (those evenly distribute damage across all the sections of a fighter's armour).
3 special missiles will appear at some point: torpedoes for the new dedicated anti cap ship interceptors, ground bombs for ground targets such as tanks and ground forces, and a special tech capture missile (say leech) for capturing TOG interceptors and patrol ships (although several strikes will be necessary to capture those. Those missiles won't work on destroyers and beyond).
Also, the renegade ships have uneven armour plating (like in wing commander): for instance, the renegade penetrator is finely protected front and back, but has very thin side armour, this means that when you dogfight with a penetrator, you must know the rules.
Some ships (heavy interceptors like the fluttering petal or the gladius) have turrets (with a varrying number of guns, although mostly 2). Those can fire on a 360 degree pattern (like the turrets of an ursa or medusa in freespace).
Some missions will ask the pilot to retrieve an ejected pilot (whether he be a renegade or TOG pilot). For this, I thought a pilot should call a support ship when he has secured the area: the support ship would be a renegade pegasus class corvette for retrieving ejected pilots or later in the came a captured TOG meteorum carrier corvette to retrieve disabled fighters). The pilot will call them ingame using the reinforcements command.
I think that's about all now. The only thing I need to find now is data on tanks and ground forces.
so long.
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And I've finally got the tanks:
here are the 2 files we'll need for the tanks:
http://members.tripod.com/~Rlegion/2Acr/2nd-ACR.pdf (TOG)
http://members.tripod.com/~Rlegion/harbing.pdf (renegade)
Perhaps the tanks weapon systems will have to be accordingly "scaled" to the game, as interceptors are bound to engage them. Also, ground targets will comprise of infantry legions, artillery turrets (varryin designs), and buildings ranging from factories and command buildings to shield generators and T-Doppler deep space tracking stations.
I think thats all the data gathering we'll need. No doubt I'm going to start a modding thread regarding the renegade legion project soon. I hope you will all manifest your interest, as we will no doubt need all available help.
thanks for your support.
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Don't put to much work into ground missions. FS is still a space combat engine and I haven't played any groundmissions so far with it. I know that there is a mod that seams to have a lot of them. Still I would concentrate on one aspect and that is spacebattles.
While posting my two cents here and give you some advice about what to do I have enough stuff at my hands to do and the time I have will mostly be used to do Saga stuff. So you shouldn't count me in for doing anything beside giving advice.
I would like to see this universe given a chance in becomming something playable but I would even more like to see me getting some Saga stuff done first.
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Of course, I do understand. But thank you for giving your advice in the first place. Also, who knows: perhaps when saga will be completed, perhaps you will want to return to the renegade legion.
Anyway, in the meantime, I'll refurbish the story details. I'm especially trying to pour some details into campaign 4 (the most difficult storywise). Probably this will end with a whole fleet of civillan and military ships (full of human and ssora refugees) fleeing to the vae victis entry system in a desperate attempt to join commonwhealth space, with the lictor hot on their trail.
Storywise, I was woundering if I would put in a spy/traitor, however, there is already one in the battle for jacob's star and I don't think I really have the need for it nor does the story. Yet I'll think it over.
Alea jacta est.
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Ah, besides: Does WCsaga allow ships to have uneven armour (4 quadrant armour)like in wing commander? (side armour being less dense than front/aft armour)? This is especially true regarding the renegade penetrator fighter, and I woundered if it could be featured in the MOD.
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No there isn't something like that but I think someone was developing something that had to do with armor. I think it was about giveing ships different kind of armor so that they would react differently to weaponfire.
As for spys. They are a neat thing to turn storys around but its not allways that good. If you allready got one then there isn't the need for another one. Except you want to the player to see spys everywhere and let him start shooting at others. For example you could have a real traitor that tries to convince you to join the other side and tells you that some loyal pilots are spys and to kill them.
If you go the very dramatic way the person you would need to kill is a close friend. You do so because you think it is right at that moment and later you find out that its all has been a lie...like some cake I allways hear of :wtf:
The point is...can you take a cliché and turn it into something interesting?
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hmm: that's a toughy: How can I render the penetrator vulnerable sidewise while being well protected front and rear?
Besides for the spy story: I think that since battle for jacob's star has one (and further more, a new spy is chosen for each game, meaning the spy is never the same guy, so cannon wise it's not precise), there will be no need to use another one for the MOD (the story will be quite difficult without one).
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Simple answere...you can't. As far as I know there is just a set number for the hull and one for the shield. So you could ask for a code change or you have to find a way around this to give the ships the protection you want it to have.
I don't know if its possible to give a ship more then one shield to simulate that its better protected from the front. Creating a shieldmesh that isn't a complete bubble but is open to the side and front.
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Yeah, I hope this answer is possible!
Also, I've come up with an alternative to the SOC covert freespace missions:
I was woundering if it would be possible to sometimes choose a campaign path. For instance: just before the end of campaign 4: You are required to escort the fleet of fleeing ships to the vae victis entry node where they will return to commonwhealth space, however, the lictor's fleet is standing in front of the node intent on wrecking those ships to shreds. So a daring plan has been formed: a diversion: The plan will be to leave the civillan fleet with e skeletton defense while the war ships will attack an industrial system belonging to the lictor: this attack's goal will be the destruction of the gennium-arsenic "crystal gardens", preventing the lictor from manufacturing lasers. With a bit of luck, the lictor will not expect us here and will be compelled to defend it's system, therefore loosening the blockade.
Here, you would be proposed to participate to the attack on the crystal gardens. You could be free to accept or to decline and stay to defend the convoy.
Wouldn't that be great?
Also, I think I found very interesting music tracks, but we may have a legal problem: The music tracks are from an old playstation 1 game that went out in 1995 called warhawk. The music simply fits the renegade legion MOD like a glove. But I will have to contact sony computer entertainment of america and ask them if I can use this old game's music tracks.
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This kind of mission branching is indeed a good idea gameplay wise. The other thing is the story. Are you, the player, in a position, read high ranked enough, to decide something like that? I think except for succied mission the military dosn't give a simple pilot many choises on what missions he will be flying.
About the music track...I may remind you that you aren't holding any rights on Renegade or any of its offsprings as far as I know. So you are doing an illigal project. So going to a company and asking for there stuff for an illigal project dosn't seam to be the wisest corse of action, does it?
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No, but in freespace 2: some estimates that dangerous SOC covert missions can be declined by pilots.
Besides, regarding the rights: If we reason this way, then All freespace 2 MODS are illegal: I don't think that the beyond the red line team bought any rights to the battlestar galactica series, neither did the babylon project to the babylon series.
So what should I do? I hesitate to use those musics without saying anything...
Weaponwise: Regarding the thorium phase inducer (TPI), As it is a plasma weapon, I'd see a bolt similar to the green blob turret in freespace (just as slow moving, yet capable of doing some serious damage). For info, this weapon is exclusive to renegade ships.
Regarding the cone lasers (or clasers), would it be possible to have a cone shaped bolt (would the freespace engine allow it)? Damage would be slightly more significant than the laser, but less far fatching. The bolt would have the same speed as the standard laser.
Next I'll try to have someone to scan parts of renegade battle for jacob's star manual and upload the images here so you can see the new ships designs (renegade illustrius destroyer class carrier, renegade inflexible class cruiser AND the famous TOG seneca class cruiser). Also, I could give a map of the grand dukedoms (the highest scale of the conflict), a sneak view of the ssora fighter I have evoqued earlier (can't remember the name) and some info on the species (as well as photos).
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About the rights...thats has nothing to do with reasoning. They are if they are using other peoples creative work/propertie of mind. Its as simple as this.
Companys are closing an eye or two when it comes to modding because it keeps their games selling. There have been many mods that have been shut down because of this. No FS ones I know of but other games. There are different reasons for this but best thing is to keep a low profile and put in as much "legal" stuff as you can. In Saga we have our own composer who does some music for us. There are also a number of more or less free musics in the web you could search. I don't know what its called in other countries but in german its the GEMA you would have to pay for using other peoples music. That is if you get the permission to use it at all. In england I think they where called BMI.
As for all mods beeing illegal. That isn't right. The FS2open engine itself is for free. Creating your own universe with your own tools, music, models and whatever is legal...as long as you don't want money for it IIRC.
TPI
What is that weapon against? If its against fighters I would recommend something different then these slow moveing blobs that only hit when you stop you ship.
cLaser
I haven't seen this kind of effect in any mod so far. I would guess it isn't possible.
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All right regarding the TPI: We'll just have to make the bolts move a little faster, while remaining the slowes bolts in the game.
Regarding the clasers, could we design a new bolt? It will be simply slightly coneish, nothing more. The FS2 engine should be able to do this.
Regarding the music, I think you are right: we will have to find a composer. Nevertheless, it would be good for the musics to stay as close as possible to the warhawk musics.
Also, good news. Maje just sent a PM saying that he is somewhat interested in the renegade universe and he may give me a hand with things. Yet he said that being quite busy at the moment with the star wars conversion, I'll have to be patient.
But I don't care about waiting. I'm already very thankful that he's considering helping me even if this may be only in the far future. I'll start the modding thread when he will have joined (if he still wants to, that is).
Things are perhaps starting to move. wish me luck.
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Just thought about the speed of bolds. Basicly we have lasers here or other streams of particles. What about making them fast, realy fast!
Maybe even make them a short beam instead of a bold. I don't have any weapon discriptions so far or played the older games. Still it would be quite some different gameplay depending on what you choose.
Fast small bolds like an MG, the more SW like slow moveing laserbolds or a short (firingtime) beam...like in the Minmbari fighters TBP. Maybe even standing a bit longer.
The design of the cLaser depends on how big the cone would be. A small cone shape is doable without a doubt.
Its good to see that there is at least one person that might help you. What part will Maje be helping with?
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Maje hasn't been precise on that point however it seems he's one of the top guys in the star wars conversion. I hope he'll resume contact when his scedule will allow it.
Regarding the weaponry, Just to keep related to renegade: battle for jacob's star, I'll keep the idea of bolts (no beams). Lasers will be orange/gold ray-like bolts (like WC prophecy's tachyon gun), EPC's will be silvery blue ray-like bolts (like the WC prophecy's ion cannon); NPC's will be emerald green ray-like bolts (greener and thinner than the prometheus, possibly a WC prophecy's mason blaster, if such thing existed). Mass drivers (and variants) will be red/orange small spheres (like WC prophecy's particle cannons) with the heavy mass drivers firing bigger spheres and the gatling variants firing a bigger number of spheres (possibly, although less fast, like the WC secret OPS dust cannon). TPI's will fire green blobs (like the freespace green blobs) but slightly faster so they can be used in a dogfight. The TPI will yet be the slower projectile in the MOD (used by renegade ships only). And clasers will fire orange/gold conical bolts (smally conical: I think it can be done. This technology is exclusive to the TOG, but has been captured by the commonwhealth and newer fighters can accomodate this weapon. However, a lot of TOG fighters possess it: This means you'll also possess them when flying captured TOG fighters). The fighter's spinal mount (vrak'tarr only) will fire a very dense projectile (like WC prophecy's heavy plasma cannon on the devastator) capable of penetrating the shields of warships and do serious damage.
Also, some ships like the na'ctka mokqua 2 (fluttering petal 2) will possess a system similar to the autotargetting system of the WC excalibur. Meaning even if it looses the 2 big mass drivers and the automatic turret of the petal 1, this baby can fire 6 lasers at a TOG fighter and nearly always score it's mark, often spelling doom to the TOG fighter in question. Can the autotarget (or rather the "greatly assisted targetting") feature be used in the freespace engine? Although I think you are using something similar in WCsaga for the excalibur, no?
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I haven't used it myself because I find it more fun to target manualy but there is a autotarget feature as far as I remember it.
About the weapons...that was just a idea on how you could make them.
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Again a little bit of additionnal info: The ssora fighter "sstarotht" 's human name is the "chasing shadow". It can be seen streaking past a shiva battleship with something exploding behind it in the leviathan PDF somewhere.
Those ships will be piloted by the player also in campaign 4 to help spread disorder: ssora's will be thought to attack the other factions, etc...
Also, some planet ground attack missions would be great if set during the night. (I hope this is possible). Imagine taking out a TOG airfield in the dead of the night with bombs, shrouded in blackness with searchlights sparking up and trying to get a fix on your fighter while flak guns and anti interceptor turrets keep barking at you...
Also, regarding the gun bays: I forgot: there is a 10 gun type of bay (smallest). This one is used on corvettes/escorts and sometimes serve as secondary bays on frigates or destroyers.
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I am not sure about the possibility of nightmissions. I think there has allways to be a sun. Maybe you could tune down the suns strength so much that it would look like a bright full moon.
Still there is the overall ambi light strength that can be set by the player. If its to high you won't get the same effect. So you would have to tell the player not to touch the settings for it or find another way to turn it down.
This would be a questions for the mission designers and tech people. They most likely know more abou thtis.
Aren't the bays all covered in the sourcebook? I thought I have seen a 10bay. Well if you get a 100 to work smaller ones aren't a real problem I guess.
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Well I think we covered just about all the issues here. I just need to upload (one day) the several pages of the battle for jacob's star manual with the newer designs (illustrious, inflexible and seneca), the dukedom map, and the species info and photos.
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It seems the vae victis topic in the modding forum had several problems lately, so I'll post the last of the material here.
Feedback will be extremely appreciated.
lnk is here: http://www.4shared.com/file/35906170/c1aa58d5/renegade.html?dirPwdVerified=380ccc6c
Also, the mission planning made for campaign 1 turning point is nearly complete.
best regards.