Hard Light Productions Forums
General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: lostllama on December 21, 2007, 06:51:04 am
-
Ok we know from FS1 that Admiral Wolf was based on the Galatea. I assume that he's the one who reads out the mission briefings when you're stationed on that ship.
Now the officer in the CommandBrief cutscene has the same voice as Admiral Wolf (if we assume the guy with that voice is Wolf), and is on the Galatea (right?) as he conducts that briefing. But the name 'Polpolion' is on his uniform. Also, according to the FS Reference Bible his rank is captain....
To compound confusion further I think the FS1 tech room cutscene description says he's a GTI officer or some such iirc.
And....according to the thread below, the comminications officer in the intro cutscene has the name Polpolion.
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,35930.20.html (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,35930.20.html)
So, do we actually see Wolf in the game? And what's with Polpolion showing up on both these character's uniforms? Any ideas??
Yeah, I must be bored to even bring this up but it's bugging me for some reason.... not like it's of any real consequence or anything. Just wondered if anyone had noticed this too.
-
No, he doesen't give you briefings, I think not even 1337-Squads are directly briefed by the Admiral.
-
I've thought the same too; I can't see admirals directly briefing rank and file squadrons, elite ones maybe though.
-
Just a thought, but it may be that "Polpolion" was just part of the uniform texture that ended up reused during the cutscene creation. Just a shortcut by the devs, likely nothing more than that.
-
Oh well..... thought there might have been more to it than that but I guess that's the reason why. :)
-
FreeSpace apparently operates under the rather silly notion that Admirals are equivalent to Captains. Thus we have Admirals directly briefing pilots while taking orders from Terran Command.
-
And aren't wings in real life bigger than squadrons?
-
I'm not sure, but I think that wings are within a squadron - like a squadron has got 2 wings maybe? :confused:
-
According to Wiktionary, a squadron consists of at least two flights. Many squadrons form a group. A wing is smaller than a division, but larger than a group or squadron. I tried to check this from Cambride Advanced Learner's Dictionary, but the damn thing seems to be stuck.
-
I think squadrons are equaled to divisions and wings are elements of the operation meaning they're not actually official. We know a squadron is large because they have official designation (Since FS1, in the adv. training mission where they order you to call in reinforcements from Epsilon wing from the 3rd squadron). I would imagine entire squadrons are stationed on Destroyers, since they can after all, carry like 100+ fighters/bombers. Each squadron would consist of around 50-100 fighters while bomber and SOC squadrons are smaller. We know SOC has it own squadrons (99th Skulls) but also take pilots from other squadrons if needed.
Squadrons are probably made out of 2-3 flights. No canon to support this, but it seems logical to break down the squadron into smaller groups. I would imagine squadrons would often work together in joint operations where wings are drawn from nearby squadrons. I could see something like 2-3 squadrons per destroyer and 1-2 squadrons per station. This would explain why squadrons have numbers up to the hundreds while fleets are only from 1 to ~10.
-
K... I was merely trying to compare the inconsistensies FS has with Real LifeTM. Since, as Goob said, it is weird that in FS1, admirals give mission briefings to almost individual pilots. Inspired by that, I checked a few terms and noticed this fact that in FS, a squadron has many wings, like Alpha wing of the 107th Ravens heavy assault squadron, whereas in Real LifeTM, a wing is larger than a squadron and squadrons are made up of flights.
-
I would imagine entire squadrons are stationed on Destroyers, since they can after all, carry like 100+ fighters/bombers. Each squadron would consist of around 50-100 fighters while bomber and SOC squadrons are smaller.
When you consider that each pilot can choose their own craft (ship selection screen), each squadron must have a variety of fighters/bombers allocated to them for flexibility, and hence they must have >12 ships per squadron (107th Ravens for example - they usually fly the Herc 2 but get to fly the Boanerges too). I got the impression that a squadron would typically have 12 fighters, which could be divided into 4 wings of 3, or 3 wings of 4 fighters..... dunno why but I always got the impression form real life that a squadron had 12 fighters for active operations, and maybe at least another 12 in reserve. And yeah, in FS the concept of a wing is indeed quite different to the real life concept in terms of numbers.
Admiral Petrarch definitely gave briefings to pilots himself (in the latter missions of FS2 I think), although that was when the situation perhaps demanded it and elite squadrons were involved.
-
FS2 did give the impression that fleet admirals gave briefings to squadron leaders, but in FS1 there were only admirals giving briefings (Wolf at first and Shima after him), which was rather weird. Some major cut in red tape, I guess. Or some plan to create some serious community spirit within capital ships so that admirals would know pilots almost at a personal level.
-
FS wing = 4 fighter
FS squadron = 3 wings = 12 fighters (active.. A squadron probably consists of 24 pilots, devided in 2 shifts)
FS1 and FS2 do indeed have some differences regarding breifings. It might be possible that the player in FS1 was already considered elite from early on, and thus, the admirals giving briefings.
-
It might be possible that the player in FS1 was already considered elite from early on, and thus, the admirals giving briefings.
Though in the first mission the player was sent to defend the Orff with a veteran pilot, which suggests that the admiral didn't have much trust towards the player.
-
Or maybe one craft was simply not enough.
-
I didn't say one fighter was enough. I tried to stress that the player was sent on that mission with a veteran, which means that the player's character didn't have enough combat experience, which in turn suggests that the character wasn't an elite from the start. And that counters the claim made by Trash, who speculated that the Alpha 1 in FS1 was an elite from the start.
-
Buerocratic mistake? :p
-
:v: mistake. Probably to make it easier to create the game.
If FS was more true to life, Admiral Petrarch would be based on 3rd Fleet HQ. He would give orders to the various ships within the fleet. The person in charge of the Aquitaine would be a Captain (or perhaps a Commodore, since it's the flagship). The ubiquitous "Allied Command" would probably be a communications officer aboard the Aquitaine. Whenever the player changed ships, therefore, the person playing the role of Command would also change -- which means that during the Vasudan missions, Command would probably be a Vasudan. Under no circumstances would Command give orders to anyone not associated with the Aquitaine -- especially not the Colossus. :p
-
I didn't say one fighter was enough. I tried to stress that the player was sent on that mission with a veteran, which means that the player's character didn't have enough combat experience, which in turn suggests that the character wasn't an elite from the start. And that counters the claim made by Trash, who speculated that the Alpha 1 in FS1 was an elite from the start.
Or maybe they sortied two veterans for overkills or safetys sake.
-
You will be on watch with one other ship, Alpha 2. Since this is your first watch, Alpha 2 will be piloted by Lt. Harbison, a seasoned veteran and top-notch pilot.
Hmm.
$Notes:
I am the lizard king.
:wtf:
-
Ah, in this case.
BTW: You stand no chance, for I am the SCORPION KING!
-
Seriously. I went back to the top of the mission file in Notepad to check the name of the mission. And I notice that part. What the hell? Is this FS1 humour or Port humour? I'm gonna go through the rest of the missions now.
Edit: K, there are more weird things in the $Notes sections, so I'll just list them here:
btm-02.fs2: "I've got your basic training RIGHT HERE, baby!"
mdu-05.fs2:
This is a FRED created mission.
Really? I thought it was a BOB created mission.
No, I'm pretty sure it's a FRED created mission.
Hmm, I could have sworn it was BOB. Oh well.
sm1-04a.fs2: "I am the god of beer and fire!"
SM1-07a.fs2: "This is a FRED created mission, and don't you forget it, baby! :)"
sm3-06a.fs2: "Sometimes I feel like a nut."
-
Those quotes look like something that Axem would make in his JAD series. I think they're just humor from the original developers.
-
:v: mistake. Probably to make it easier to create the game.
If FS was more true to life, Admiral Petrarch would be based on 3rd Fleet HQ. He would give orders to the various ships within the fleet. The person in charge of the Aquitaine would be a Captain (or perhaps a Commodore, since it's the flagship). The ubiquitous "Allied Command" would probably be a communications officer aboard the Aquitaine. Whenever the player changed ships, therefore, the person playing the role of Command would also change -- which means that during the Vasudan missions, Command would probably be a Vasudan. Under no circumstances would Command give orders to anyone not associated with the Aquitaine -- especially not the Colossus. :p
Actually that's not so stupid.
What really sets up the confusion IMHO is that we assume, that the person in command of a ship has to be a Captain. Another thing is, that we assume that pilots are the "grunts" of space warfare.
Neither thing could be further from the truth.
On a typical destroyer also acting as a carrier to keep the ship flying you need dozens of maintenance personal, ordenance, avionics experts, probably even phsysicists to keep the subspace engines in operation. These are probably all warrant officers. Beyond them you have marines on board, the actual hands to operate the ship - damage control parties, tech ratings, weapon and sensor operators, handyman to move equipment, and so on and so on...
Thousands of people.
....and a handful (a couple of hundred) true officers. The pilots belong to the later, heck, most of them are lieutenants.
On your average cruiser, the command staff would be mostly made up off lieutenants.
The thousands of cruisers are probably commanded by Captains and Commodore. Given their scarcity Corvettes are likely reserved for the better personal, and therefore are commanded by Commodores exclusively.
Destroyers though are another breed. They are the core of the fleet, what you'd call the "line" in the age of sail. You put your senior officers in charge of that. Given that a destroyer is the heart of most battle-groups you're likely to find an Admiral on-board.
This isn't Earth people! You can't micro-manage your fleets from your arm-chair. You need officers on-site, to make on-site decisions. You likely have system commanders who implement the orders of the chief of naval operations. The later is probably only possible with a relay-network between jump-points that allows light-speed communication between systems.
All of these officers could be what the game addresses as "Command".
One more thing: Admirals usually only give you "command" briefing.
Actual brifings though are held by the CAG.
-
Why not communicate with me directly?
-
That wouldn't be nearly as fun, now would it?
-
Why not communicate with me directly?
'Cause you're dead.
-
Because the Admiral has to keep the whole battle in mind, coordinate all the ships on the battlefront, he also has to order what the reserve fighters should be refitted with, what weapons to use on what ships; plot manuevers....he already has his hands full.
Recommended reading:
Anything from David Weber (Honoverse, Starfire etc.)
-
Why not communicate with me directly?
'Cause you're dead.
Technically, I died in 2335, so I have over 300 years left.
Going back to the subject, at no point in the game do I announce myslef as Admiral Wolf. The first point in which pilots learn my name is when Ad. Shima reads out my "Obituary" after the Galatea is destroyed. So it seems to me, that it is just speculation that I give mission briefings to all pilots.
If we had the Taranis mission briefing video, we'd be able to see if it was myself or Polpolion giving the mission briefing. I have theories for both sides of the arguement. Either Volition wre trying to save time and cut corners by reusing a previous model for the briefing in the hope no-one would be that eagle-eyed to notice the mistake. However, with Admirals being concerned with their destroyers/cruisers well-being, I can't see them taking the time to deliver mission briefings to all flight crew such as with Petrach where he delivered briefings to only squadron leaders for the leaders to pass on the objectives relevant to their squadron.
However, where does this leave Shima? My theory on her is that she made Alpha One a squad leader. For after all, does she not say:
For this reason, I am assigning Alpha One to lead these missions
So therefore, I am of the opinion that this matter in inconclusive, unless someone can get a clear screenshot of the mission briefing cutscene of the briefers nametag.
-
If we had the Taranis mission briefing video, we'd be able to see if it was myself or Polpolion giving the mission briefing.
Hmm. Maybe you were busy leading the ship or something, and Mr. Polpolion (http://koti.mbnet.fi/reiler/polpolion.jpg) was covering for you on the briefing.
-
I must have been in the athletics department or on lunch at the time. Thanks for clearing that up.
-
Hmm, right. 'Nuff said then, I suppose. :)