Hard Light Productions Forums

Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The FRED Workshop => Topic started by: woodburner on January 15, 2008, 04:53:36 pm

Title: semi-invincible Sathanas
Post by: woodburner on January 15, 2008, 04:53:36 pm
Yes, it is me,
:nod: :nod: W  o  o  d  b  u  r  n  e  r :nod: :nod:
Sorry I'm complaining :hopping: about so many problems. It's really my wannabe-Uber-Hacker brother's fault (I think)

I have a very bad Sathanas in my first mission. It's hull integrity drops to 1% very quickly and stays there for 33 minutes (I sped it up a lot ).  Is there any way I can stop this?
Title: Re: semi-invincible Sathanas
Post by: FUBAR-BDHR on January 15, 2008, 05:16:02 pm
Do you have it set to ship guardian?  If not does what is trying to kill it have the weapons capable of doing it?  Only certain weapons can kill a cap ship.  Trebs, Cycs, Helios for example.  Certain cap ship weapons can also.
Title: Re: semi-invincible Sathanas
Post by: Nx on January 15, 2008, 05:16:42 pm
Yes, it is me,
:nod: :nod: W  o  o  d  b  u  r  n  e  r :nod: :nod:
Sorry I'm complaining :hopping: about so many problems. It's really my wannabe-Uber-Hacker brother's fault (I think)

I have a very bad Sathanas in my first mission. It's hull integrity drops to 1% very quickly and stays there for 33 minutes (I sped it up a lot ).  Is there any way I can stop this?

The sathanas can only be killed by a capital ship. No matter how much you try, you cannot kill it with a fighter. You have to remove a flag from the ship.tbl entry (big damage (http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Ships.tbl#.22big_damage.22)) or add a flag to the weapon you are using on the fighter (huge (http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Weapons.tbl#.22Huge.22))

Edit: also interesting are the supercap flags (two exist, one for weapons (http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Weapons.tbl#.22supercap.22) and one for ships (http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Ships.tbl#.22supercap.22))

Off topic: why are there two supercap entries in the weapons.tbl wiki page?
Title: Re: semi-invincible Sathanas
Post by: woodburner on January 16, 2008, 04:47:51 pm
A wing of bombers and a friendly Lucifer is attacking it, armed only with Super lasers and long range flak. Should I add beams?
Title: Re: semi-invincible Sathanas
Post by: Nx on January 16, 2008, 04:56:23 pm
A wing of bombers and a friendly Lucifer is attacking it, armed only with Super lasers and long range flak. Should I add beams?

The Super laser is probably missing the supercap flag. I don't think any bomb has it either, so you'll have to add beams to the lucy (or modify the weapons)
Title: Re: semi-invincible Sathanas
Post by: TrashMan on January 16, 2008, 05:37:48 pm
Helios doesn't have the Supercap flag? :wtf:
Title: Re: semi-invincible Sathanas
Post by: FUBAR-BDHR on January 16, 2008, 05:41:35 pm
I know Helios will kill it in retail multi.  Never tried in single.
Title: Re: semi-invincible Sathanas
Post by: Cobra on January 16, 2008, 07:15:07 pm
Of COURSE the Helios can kill a Sathanas in singleplayer! You can do it in High Noon!
Title: Re: semi-invincible Sathanas
Post by: blowfish on January 16, 2008, 07:23:33 pm
Of COURSE the Helios can kill a Sathanas in singleplayer! You can do it in High Noon!

Any weapon can do damage.  I believe that the supercap flag makes it so that it can take the last percent of the ship's hull.  Whoever does the most non-beam damage gets the kill.

Interestingly enough, Helios does not have the supercap flag.
Title: Re: semi-invincible Sathanas
Post by: Cobra on January 16, 2008, 11:41:57 pm
/me headdesks

Helios bombs are anti-capital ship bombs. If they couldn't take out a Sathanas, they wouldn't take out a destroyer.
Title: Re: semi-invincible Sathanas
Post by: Koth on January 16, 2008, 11:53:30 pm
THE HELIOS DOES NOT HAVE THE SUPERCAP FLAG. You can do damage to a Sathanas or a Colossus but you can't kill them with it
Title: Re: semi-invincible Sathanas
Post by: Jeff Vader on January 16, 2008, 11:54:35 pm
THE HELIOS DOES NOT HAVE THE SUPERCAP FLAG. You can't kill a Sathanas or a Colossus with it
Yes you can. Trust me. I've done it.
Title: Re: semi-invincible Sathanas
Post by: Cobra on January 16, 2008, 11:59:45 pm
THE HELIOS DOES NOT HAVE THE SUPERCAP FLAG. You can't kill a Sathanas or a Colossus with it
Yes you can. Trust me. I've done it.

Thank you! That's what I've been saying this whole time!

Oh, and to my knowledge, supercap is for the ships.tbl.

[EDIT] Actually, it's for both.

But any missile with the flag "huge" can take down anything destroyer-class and up.

Helios flags: $Flags: ( "Bomb" "Huge" "No Dumbfire" "player allowed")
Title: Re: semi-invincible Sathanas
Post by: FUBAR-BDHR on January 17, 2008, 12:00:53 am
I just made a test mission.  3.6.10 10-28 build.  One Myrmidon with 4 Helios against a Sathanas with 2% starting hull.  Took all 4 to drop it down to 1%.  I reloaded and nothing.  Did it again and nothing.  Was about to give up but reloaded 1 more time.  This time it went down.  So the Helios can definitely kill the Sathanas.  Takes about 10-11 of them for the last 1% but they can do it. 
Title: Re: semi-invincible Sathanas
Post by: Koth on January 17, 2008, 12:03:43 am
There is a Supercap flag in the weapons table: http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Weapons.tbl#.22Supercap.22 (http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Weapons.tbl#.22Supercap.22). But it is never used ingame and seems to have no effect. Damn.
Title: Re: semi-invincible Sathanas
Post by: Cobra on January 17, 2008, 12:24:33 am
Sorry to sound like an ass, but... I told you so. :P
Title: Re: semi-invincible Sathanas
Post by: karajorma on January 17, 2008, 02:44:54 am
There is a Supercap flag in the weapons table: http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Weapons.tbl#.22Supercap.22 (http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Weapons.tbl#.22Supercap.22). But it is never used ingame and seems to have no effect. Damn.

That's odd. The code says it should have an effect.

Code: [Select]
// if it has hit a supercap ship and is not a supercap class weapon
if((sip->flags & SIF_SUPERCAP) && !(wip->wi_flags & WIF_SUPERCAP)){
// if the supercap is around 3/4 damage, apply nothing
if(hull_pct <= 0.75f){
return 0.0f;
} else {
total_scale *= SUPERCAP_DAMAGE_SCALE;
}
}

Unless that code isn't called by bombs for some reason non-supercap weapons should do 25% damage until the supercap reaches 75% hull and no damage after that.

Might have to look into this one later.
Title: Re: semi-invincible Sathanas
Post by: Nx on January 17, 2008, 03:03:09 am
/me headdesks

Helios bombs are anti-capital ship bombs. If they couldn't take out a Sathanas, they wouldn't take out a destroyer.

The Sathanas is not a capital ship. It's a super capital ship.

I just made a test mission.  3.6.10 10-28 build.  One Myrmidon with 4 Helios against a Sathanas with 2% starting hull.  Took all 4 to drop it down to 1%.  I reloaded and nothing.  Did it again and nothing.  Was about to give up but reloaded 1 more time.  This time it went down.  So the Helios can definitely kill the Sathanas.  Takes about 10-11 of them for the last 1% but they can do it. 

I'm too lazy and busy to test it, but does adding the supercap flag to the Helios change the amount of bombs needed to kill the Sath?
Remember the mission where the Aquitaine has to be escorted out of the nebula and is attacked by a Moloch? Destroying the Moloch is a bonus objective, but the Aquitaine jumped out before it could do it, and I wanted to take it down. I couldn't take down the last 1%. This is quite similar to your test with the Helios and the Sath, except in my case the weapon was missing the huge flag (which should prevent it from doing the last 10%, yet it doesn't...), and I gave up.
Title: Re: semi-invincible Sathanas
Post by: woodburner on January 17, 2008, 06:40:30 pm
Hello. I just added beams and guess what??? It worked!!!!!!!!! ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)

The only downside is you have to spend about 5 minutes either standing back and enjoying or trying to disable the Sathanas until it dies, and you're in a Perseus with
Title: Re: semi-invincible Sathanas
Post by: Warp Shadow on January 19, 2008, 09:02:26 pm
As far as I know, the only retail weapon with the supercap flag is the BF green
Title: Re: semi-invincible Sathanas
Post by: blowfish on January 19, 2008, 09:09:09 pm
Well, that and the LRBGreen.
Title: Re: semi-invincible Sathanas
Post by: Nx on January 20, 2008, 03:47:43 am
As far as I know, the only retail weapon with the supercap flag is the BF green

(and the BFRed?)
Supercap flag is borked. You can still kill a supercap with a normal weapon, but the last 1% will take much longer.
Title: Re: semi-invincible Sathanas
Post by: Snail on January 20, 2008, 04:44:48 am
No weapon in the retail tables has the supercap flag.
Title: Re: semi-invincible Sathanas
Post by: karajorma on January 20, 2008, 04:54:43 am
:wtf: How hard is it to actually check the tables before saying this stuff?

The BFGreen and LRBGreen both have the supercap flag. BFRed interestingly enough doesn't.
Title: Re: semi-invincible Sathanas
Post by: Snail on January 20, 2008, 04:57:41 am
:wtf: How hard is it to actually check the tables before saying this stuff?

The BFGreen and LRBGreen both have the supercap flag. BFRed interestingly enough doesn't.

Orly?

Yarly.

Killme.


I did check a while ago when the subject came up, but I didn't find anything. I must've looked over BGreen or something. That or I completely forgot. :rolleyes:
Title: Re: semi-invincible Sathanas
Post by: CP5670 on January 20, 2008, 12:36:45 pm
As others have said, the supercap flag doesn't appear to do anything. We blew up a Sathanas in multiplayer yesterday (with Helios bombs), and as far as I could see it took no longer than expected to damage it from 75% or 1%.
Title: Re: semi-invincible Sathanas
Post by: Warp Shadow on January 27, 2008, 08:07:14 pm
I did check the tables (by using the ctrl+f function) and all that came up was the BF green
Title: Re: semi-invincible Sathanas
Post by: karajorma on January 28, 2008, 01:43:34 am
Are you using the 1.2 tables or the 1.0 ones?
Title: Re: semi-invincible Sathanas
Post by: Warp Shadow on January 28, 2008, 01:54:15 pm
The whaaaaa :wtf:
Title: Re: semi-invincible Sathanas
Post by: Koth on January 28, 2008, 02:10:24 pm
Confirmed, only the LRBGreen and the BFGreen have the supercap flag and I'am using the 1.2 tables.

EDIT: I just tried out Orion VS Sathanas and guess what again the Supercap flag seems to have no effect.
Title: Re: semi-invincible Sathanas
Post by: karajorma on January 28, 2008, 02:19:28 pm
Koth, lock the beams and increase the damage of one of the weapons like the Terran Turret to something ridiculously high. Now see if the same thing happens.

The whaaaaa :wtf:

Did you patch the game? Or did you download it using Turey's installer?
Title: Re: semi-invincible Sathanas
Post by: woodburner on January 28, 2008, 02:33:38 pm
Turney's. I also have some friendly Shivan bombers on the Sathanas, too. It works. ;)
Title: Re: semi-invincible Sathanas
Post by: Warp Shadow on January 28, 2008, 09:27:07 pm
I think it was the installer but I don't really remember too well.
Title: Re: semi-invincible Sathanas
Post by: Koth on January 28, 2008, 11:28:23 pm
Koth, lock the beams and increase the damage of one of the weapons like the Terran Turret to something ridiculously high. Now see if the same thing happens.

Got it. After further testing it seems that the supercap flag only works for non-beam weapons.

EDIT: No effect on missile weapons too.
Title: Re: semi-invincible Sathanas
Post by: karajorma on January 29, 2008, 12:37:24 am
Thought so. I remember Trashman I think it was complaining that his weapons didn't work until he was told to stick the supercap flag on them.