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Hosted Projects - Standalone => The Babylon Project => Topic started by: IPAndrews on January 24, 2008, 02:07:50 am

Title: TBP 3.4b beta feedback
Post by: IPAndrews on January 24, 2008, 02:07:50 am
Please report your experiences with the TBP 3.4b beta release here. If you are reporting a bug here please note that not all bugs can or will be fixed. Also, don't post requests for new features, or new ships in this thread. Thanks all.

Known bugs

1. Support ships can't dock with a disabled ship (Kara)
2. Add FAQ entry about inability to assign orders to DH Mothership.

Fixed in the next release

1. White on blue writing in installer (Hip)
2. Stop installer trying to delete files and instruct user to do it manually (Hip)
3. Add instructions to use VPView32 2.0 Beta for to extract from core VP to FAQ (done)
4. Add Skullar's nameplate pack 1 and instructions on usage in the FAQ (done)
5. Add extra ani files as sent by Vidmaster (done)
6. Stop Hell and back briefing stage 3 ani showing FS2 logo (need to check)
7. p_gas10 and stars.tbl (done)
8. Bomb ship in Nobody Expects doesn't catch shuttle (need to check, difficulty level influence?)
9. Dogfight loadouts pointlessly limit weapon selection (done)
10. dhcarrierh.pof LOD distances doubled to disguise minor lower LOD model offset problem (done)
11. Targetting doesn't work when engines disabled (Kara)

Unfixable:

1. Black square over buttons (game engine bug)
2. Skullar's epsilon 3 background (promised but never sent)
3. "Drums of War I" mission 3 "Dropping the Sledgehammer" and a background planet had a black square around it (I don't have the knowledge or tools to fix alpha channel issues)
4. Babylon 5 Rotation
5. the RW Mission1 briefing (last stage) has still a incomplete voice file,
6. Asteroid model doesn't display when clicked in briefings.
7. Inferno build crashes in Multiplayer.
8. No rotation in subobject Multiplayer.
9. Cannot assign orders to DH Mothership (supercap object type hardcoded limitation)
Title: Re: The Babylon Project 3.4b feedback
Post by: karajorma on January 24, 2008, 08:18:47 am
Not really a bug but I did find the white on blue writing in the installer very hard to read. Something to consider for the DVD installer perhaps.
Title: Re: The Babylon Project 3.4b feedback
Post by: hip63 on January 24, 2008, 08:31:48 am
white on blue? or the white on black?
the reason I ask is the most of the white blue is the usually blah blah crap that is standard on all installers, the white on black parts are the really important information.

hip63 :p
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: BoOReD on January 24, 2008, 10:32:01 am
Hello...I've been watching these forum for quite a while,waiting for the final thing,the last one gave me errors and i saw others were getting the same ones,i didn't understand how to fix them...so i didn't want to bug you  :D 
Now I'm downloading and i have a question,maybe stupid,hope this is the place to ask.

At the release thread Andrew posted tbp.exe and Hip63 posted the link on rapidshare,do i need to download both? or will the rapidshare be enough to install,and if i require both of them,do i make 1 folder after download and place all there?

PS sorry for my bad english
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: Vidmaster on January 24, 2008, 10:38:42 am
IP, the launcher still defaults to the standart fs2_open instead of the INF build. I forgot that and was remembered of that in a brutal way while testing FH2260. It CRASHED of course. Since it's recommended to use the INF and some campaigns (Survivor, FH2260) actually require it, could you do something about that?

(oh, and great new icon  ;) )

@BoORed: I guess Hip63 just posted the same 3.4b so you don't require something else. Download and try out.
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: karajorma on January 24, 2008, 11:40:41 am
white on blue? or the white on black?
the reason I ask is the most of the white blue is the usually blah blah crap that is standard on all installers, the white on black parts are the really important information.

hip63 :p

The white on blue. I know it wasn't particularly important text but it was rather annoying. trying to squint at the screen to see what the options did.
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: FUBAR-BDHR on January 24, 2008, 12:13:56 pm
Quick install question.  Is there a specific reason for deleting the directory before the install?  I have stuff in there I would like to keep (missions, campaign files, etc).  Is there a more specific "this needs deleted" type list?  I could just back up the stuff and copy it back but then there is still the possibility of copying something back that shouldn't be copied back.
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: Woolie Wool on January 24, 2008, 12:42:18 pm
The installer is broken for me. It gets to ilu.dll and hangs indefinitely. Could you provide an alternate version with a rar or zip archive rather than an installer?
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: Vidmaster on January 24, 2008, 12:45:52 pm
it does not hang. I thought so too, it can take OVER ten minutes  :sigh:
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: Woolie Wool on January 24, 2008, 01:05:54 pm
It actually did work, but why doesn't the progress meter move at all?
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: karajorma on January 24, 2008, 01:19:53 pm
It's extracting a 1.3 GB VP file and the progress meter considers that one file operation out of the 200+ required to install the game. Never mind that in terms of time that one operation takes longer than all the others put together.
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: Jeff Vader on January 24, 2008, 01:24:30 pm
Quick install question.  Is there a specific reason for deleting the directory before the install?  I have stuff in there I would like to keep (missions, campaign files, etc).  Is there a more specific "this needs deleted" type list?  I could just back up the stuff and copy it back but then there is still the possibility of copying something back that shouldn't be copied back.
I suppose you can copy the campaign vps and possible mission files on the basis that if they are something unneeded after the installation, they are something unneeded even now.
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: IPAndrews on January 24, 2008, 01:36:21 pm
Hip, does the installer actually warn people before deleting their directory (campaigns, player files, mission... :) )
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: FUBAR-BDHR on January 24, 2008, 02:02:04 pm
I can tell you it doesn't since everything is still there.  The instructions weren't posted yet when I did the install so I just did it over top of what was there.  Haven't run into any problems yet.  Reading that "Uninstall The Babylon Project and delete it's directory before installing the new version" in bold print this morning made me wonder if I could have something messed up now.
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: IPAndrews on January 24, 2008, 02:16:24 pm
Reading that "Uninstall The Babylon Project and delete it's directory before installing the new version" in bold print this morning made me wonder if I could have something messed up now.

Possibly. The instructions are there for a reason. The reason is to get rid of any old files that might be present and give you a fresh clean install guaranteed to work. Because 9 times out of 10 when someone complains their installation is completely screwed and the game won't start it's because there's some old patch file sat around in their directory screwing it up.
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: FUBAR-BDHR on January 24, 2008, 02:44:37 pm
OK then I shouldn't have anything that's not in the install package and not a campaign .vp or my own stuff.  I don't have any mods so that shouldn't be a problem.  When the official 3.4b is released I'll probably just back that stuff up and do a clean install to be on the safe side.
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: hip63 on January 24, 2008, 03:57:58 pm
Actually, installing over a previous install should not be an issue, I included a bat file that cleans up (deletes) old files from the previous 3.4 patches but only patch files. (I tried to think of all senarios when building the installer, but there is no warning)

I did included a notice during the progress screen to please be patient as file extraction can take some time. Kara's explanation of the decompression is correct and I've noticed that the displayed file name lags behind the actual file being extraced so that will throw you off too. Plus the speed of your processor GREATLY effects the decompression time.

IPAndrews mention nothing to me about using the INF builds as default so it is the way it is, easy enough to change at anytime through with the launcher.

hip63 :p
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: IPAndrews on January 24, 2008, 04:40:53 pm
It sounds like you've done all the right things Hip.
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: emi_100 on January 24, 2008, 06:21:07 pm
People... were is the new Epsilon 3 background planet?...
is it include? ... and the new starfury from the Lost Tales??
 :confused:
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: hip63 on January 24, 2008, 06:25:35 pm
Quote
and the new starfury from the Lost Tales??

I'm expecting to hear a smack from IP any time now.... :nervous:

hip63 :p
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: terran_emperor on January 24, 2008, 07:28:50 pm
Oh dont worry. The crusade pack that im planning has two Thundebolt reskins-retools.
One competly black, the other with shadow skins
Currently Im waiting for 3.4b to be released mainstream. If you want, have someone medel it the send it to me. Ill include it
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: IPAndrews on January 25, 2008, 01:50:44 am
I'm expecting to hear a smack from IP any time now.... :nervous:

I had a cricket bat around here somewhere  :nervous:.
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: IPAndrews on January 25, 2008, 01:54:07 am
So anyway. What do we have so far:

1) Difficult to read text in some parts of the installer.
2) A progress bar that doesn't make people feel all warm and secure but we can't actually fix.

Is that it? No more problems? What about if I ask these questions?

Do the campaign movies (TBP intro, EMW intro, RW logo, RW credits) all play correctly? Are FRED and the game engine working correctly? Is RW behaving itself this time? Have you downloaded Dark Children? (it's great)
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: FUBAR-BDHR on January 25, 2008, 02:29:19 am
I tried the Earth Minbari War a little while ago.  Had a sound glitch (crackling) during and a strange cursor problem (highlighted object turned to blank square) after the second mission.  Exiting and going back in seemed to fix the cursor issue but I didn't play the mission again yet.  Going to give it a try on another computer tomorrow to rule out hardware/drivers since I didn't notice the problem with DC on that computer.  Other than that I haven't noticed anything specific to TBP.
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: IPAndrews on January 25, 2008, 02:34:05 am
cursor problem (highlighted object turned to blank square) after the second mission. 

No it's not your drivers. I've seen that one too. It's intermittent and so must be a game engine bug. I don't remember seeing it with the original release 3.6.9 build so I'm guessing it's something that was introduced in the branch Kara used to build those special builds of the game engine used in the 3.4b release. Still, those builds have bug fixes for show stopping big ugly nasty bugs that mean it's worth putting up with an intermittent annoyance. Still a shame it crept in though :(.
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: FUBAR-BDHR on January 25, 2008, 02:42:44 am
Actually just remembered I had the same problem when I first opened FRED.  The ship info box was all white.  Started working as soon as I turned on show ship models.  I've been using the inferno builds for FS2 and FRED if that makes a difference.

I'm wondering if that sound glitch could have caused the cursor problem or been a result of it.  I'll have to give it a try in debug mode to see if it spits out anything.  Too tired right now though.
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: karajorma on January 25, 2008, 03:22:40 am
No it's not your drivers. I've seen that one too. It's intermittent and so must be a game engine bug. I don't remember seeing it with the original release 3.6.9 build so I'm guessing it's something that was introduced in the branch Kara used to build those special builds of the game engine used in the 3.4b release. Still, those builds have bug fixes for show stopping big ugly nasty bugs that mean it's worth putting up with an intermittent annoyance. Still a shame it crept in though :(.

Thing is that I didn't touch the graphics or interface code at all. So I'm somewhat puzzled how this bug could appear in the BtRL builds. Nor have I heard the complaint from anyone using patch 2 for BtRL (which is basically the exact same code with a different icon).

I'll see if I can get it to happen while playing Dark Children tonight.
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: Vidmaster on January 25, 2008, 03:45:37 am
- AGAIN: could the default setting of the launcher be changed to the INF build ?
- sometimes, I get graphical glitches during explosions, you can see some weird texture effect for half a second. (graphical options are the default ones of the launcher)
- the RW Mission1 briefing (last stage) has still a incomplete voice file, but I guess there is no way to fix that but to find the original voice-talent

RaiderWars intro IS played, have not checked about the outro yet (since I am fredding like a maniac instead of playing RW)
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: IPAndrews on January 25, 2008, 03:54:13 am
- AGAIN: could the default setting of the launcher be changed to the INF build ?

No. Sorry bud.

- the RW Mission1 briefing (last stage) has still a incomplete voice file, but I guess there is no way to fix that but to find the original voice-talent

Yeah. Lost forever.
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: emi_100 on January 25, 2008, 10:30:39 am
-AGAIN: were is the new Epsilon 3 background planet?... is it include?
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: Vidmaster on January 25, 2008, 10:33:42 am
- AGAIN: could the default setting of the launcher be changed to the INF build ?
No. Sorry bud.

But maybe some popup or hint during the installation? ANYTHING? :shaking: :nervous: :shaking: :nervous: :nervous:


There are a lot of pcx files in the core.vp called crimXXX under interface, all cool pictures from the show? Can they be put to any use somehow?

Also, is the nameplate pack in there? I am failing to find it (and FH2260 needs that too)
!
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: Vidmaster on January 25, 2008, 11:49:05 am
more mocking by me, sorry.

Did you changed background bitmaps? P_GAS 10 which was added with 3.4a is missing, but FH2259 AND FH2260 use this planet!!!  :ick:
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: Yathin on January 25, 2008, 03:56:53 pm
Using the jump effect in the jumpgate looks all screwy now :p It shrinked the size of the  vortex in my jumpgate (when I was using the jump effect  :confused: ) This means I will have to redo all jump effects (in the events)  :hopping:

Also, don't all of the ships have the same size as far as vortexes? (or at least, very close to)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJTXbZ7AgRM&feature=related

Notice the White Star's size near the end (vortex wise)

Any way to use the old warp effect?  :drevil:

Another thing I noticed: When you use "glide" it will not use any sound unless you are going backwards! (as far as YOUR ship) - Also, being able to change direction in glide... makes it confusing.

(Any way to make the warp effect not transparent unless its at the edges? because then I could make better looking missions with a proper warp effect. (like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYB8RcuKbaw&feature=related )
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: FUBAR-BDHR on January 25, 2008, 10:01:00 pm
cursor problem (highlighted object turned to blank square) after the second mission.

No it's not your drivers. I've seen that one too. It's intermittent and so must be a game engine bug. I don't remember seeing it with the original release 3.6.9 build so I'm guessing it's something that was introduced in the branch Kara used to build those special builds of the game engine used in the 3.4b release. Still, those builds have bug fixes for show stopping big ugly nasty bugs that mean it's worth putting up with an intermittent annoyance. Still a shame it crept in though :(.

Did the same scenario on this computer except used debug build.  Of course no problem with the sound crackling or cursor occurred. 

Anyone else notice some of the replies seem to be disappearing at times?  I know there were a couple more posts in this thread earlier today.
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: hip63 on January 26, 2008, 08:44:36 am
OK, FYI for everyone.

There will be a TBP v3.4 beta 2 release to correct issues in the current 3.4b Beta.

IP Andrews (and maybe karajorma) will be adressing the game issues and I will be addressing the installer issues.

Fix notes on the installer so far:

1. - The Text visibility will be improved. (for karajorma)
2. - A Inferno Builds Folder and a Debug Folder will be added to the TBP Start Menu Group. (for Vidmaster)
3. - Additional text will be added on the Progress Screen explaining the "Hang Effect" and to be patient. (for Woolie Wool)

Please cotinue to post any more issues with the game or the installer here and we will try to address them as best we can fro the next release.

Thanks.

hip63 :p

P.S. - One good thing is that this extra time is allowing me to improve the TBP DVD. I think it's really going to please. :)

(keep working there Vidmaster, make it perfect ;))
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: Vidmaster on January 26, 2008, 09:01:39 am
I need a definite YES or NO on the p_gas10 planet problem. CAN IT BE FIXED?

If yes, I leave it in both FH2250 and FH2260 so it will display correctly in the 3.4b release 2, if no I have to rewrite large portions of the command briefings and switch to another gas giant. Funny, a single background template causing such a huge effect  :doubt:

I am really sorry folks about my obsession with this thing, but it is important. As an apologise, I can official state that FH2260 is finished and will be send to the testers this evening and that, on the risk of sounding selfish, it's awesome. And I added a little "dedicated to the whole TBP mod team" to the intro, just for you guys. Great mod!  :yes:
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: hip63 on January 26, 2008, 09:09:28 am
I do believe it will be fixed, IPA will have to confirm.

hip63 :p
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: FUBAR-BDHR on January 26, 2008, 12:28:45 pm
Found a couple more minor issues with the installer.  Note if you delete the folder like your supposed to these won't happen.  Since you were trying to idiot proof it your deletion batch file need to get rid of a couple more things.  It leaves the batch files that I think were installed with 3.4a.  It also leaves old 3.6.9 exe files.
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: hip63 on January 26, 2008, 01:11:22 pm
which files exactly?

hip63 :g
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: FUBAR-BDHR on January 26, 2008, 02:20:11 pm
These are the ones I have leftover: 

fs2_open_3_6_9_debug-INF.exe
fs2_open_3_6_9-INF.exe
fred2_open_3_6_9_debug-INF.exe
fred2_open_3_6_9-INF.exe

Shortcuts:
fred2_open_3_6_9.exe
fred2_open_3_6_9_debug.exe
fred2_open_3_6_9_debug-INF.exe
fred2_open_3_6_9-INF.exe

Also have fred2_open_3_6_10-20071028T.exe but I put that one there for testing purposes. 
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: hip63 on January 27, 2008, 06:01:51 am
those exes where not part of 3.4a patch

here's ones that was in the 3.4a patch:

fred2_open_3_6_9.exe
fred2_open_3_6_9_debug.exe
fred2_open_3_6_9_debug_INF.exe
fred2_open_3_6_9_INF.exe
fs2_open_3_6_9.exe
fs2_open_3_6_9_debug.exe
fs2_open_3_6_9_INF.exe
fs2_open_3_6_9_INF_debug.exe

(notice they have underscores not dashes and they are the same files names of current files so it would be a bad idea to delete those, LOL))

Further investigation has reveled that those files where in the original 3.4 msi installer (and most likely my alternate 3.4 installer too)

I can edit the cleanup bat file to clean those files up but, it can not clean up shortcuts in the start menu, those will have to be deleted manually.

hip63 :p
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: Vidmaster on January 27, 2008, 06:43:52 am
At least some good news. Played through RW without any major problems. Just my voice seems to be terribly out of place  :)

Sadly, there were one or two strange things: In "nobody expects", if you don't find the bomb, is it intended that this has actually no consequences? The PsiShuttle arrives safely since the Kamikaze Pilot is to slow...
In Hell & back., cb briefing stage 3 shows the FS2 logo. Last and least, the "god rest their souls" file is still a bit quiet.

RW remains great  :nod:
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: IPAndrews on January 27, 2008, 11:22:04 am
Using the jump effect in the jumpgate looks all screwy now :p It shrinked the size of the vortex in my jumpgate

Yes. It used to be disproportionately huge.

This means I will have to redo all jump effects (in the events)  :hopping:

Yes you will, but on the other hand not having ludicrously huge jump effects is an improvement so stop complaining.

Also, don't all of the ships have the same size as far as vortexes? (or at least, very close to)

No.  They are proportionate unless it's a jump gate being used. In which case in the mod you'd use the warp-effect sexp.

Another thing I noticed: When you use "glide" it will not use any sound unless you are going backwards! (as far as YOUR ship) - Also, being able to change direction in glide... makes it confusing.

Fascinating. Go bug the source code people to change the game engine. Of course with newtonian physics the engines would not need to do anything, and thus make any noise, to propel you in the direction you are already travelling.

(Any way to make the warp effect not transparent unless its at the edges? because then I could make better looking missions with a proper warp effect. (like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYB8RcuKbaw&feature=related )

I hope someone is able to answer that question for you.
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: IPAndrews on January 27, 2008, 11:26:05 am
I need a definite YES or NO on the p_gas10 planet problem. CAN IT BE FIXED?

Yes I have to rebuild the core vp anyway to add Skullar's nameplates which he did not send me even though I requested them twice and nobody mentioned as needed in the thread I posted asking what people wanted including with the title in HUGE SOD-OFF BLOCK CAPITALS. I feel the need to revive the thread and this time add a comment saying I will personally murder brutally anyone who does this to me again.

Hugs and kisses.
Ian
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: IPAndrews on January 27, 2008, 11:27:34 am
Found a couple more minor issues with the installer.  Note if you delete the folder like your supposed to these won't happen.  Since you were trying to idiot proof it your deletion batch file need to get rid of a couple more things.  It leaves the batch files that I think were installed with 3.4a.  It also leaves old 3.6.9 exe files.

THIS IS NOT AN ISSUE WITH THE INSTALLER

The instructions tell you in plain English to uninstall and delete your Babylon Project folder before installing the new version! Do not blame the installer because you are unable to read English.
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: IPAndrews on January 27, 2008, 11:28:58 am
Sadly, there were one or two strange things: In "nobody expects", if you don't find the bomb, is it intended that this has actually no consequences?

Try playing on a harder difficulty level.
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: IPAndrews on January 27, 2008, 11:54:49 am
Hip.

For the new version of the installer please do the following.

1) Remove the code to delete files (since you're never guaranteed to get all of them).
2) Add a warning along the lines of the one written in bold next to the download link. Recommending that users uninstall any old version of the Babylon Project and delete it's directory before installing the new version.

This is the best we can do for the user when it comes to the problem of old files in their directory. These changes in place any further problems they have are down to their own stupidity.
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: karajorma on January 27, 2008, 12:19:14 pm
Another thing I noticed: When you use "glide" it will not use any sound unless you are going backwards! (as far as YOUR ship) - Also, being able to change direction in glide... makes it confusing.

I think this one may actually have been fixed in 3.6.10 already actually. I don't think the changes migrated across to the BtRL build (which is what TBP are using) when Turey added in the last batch of glide changes though.
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: FUBAR-BDHR on January 27, 2008, 12:27:07 pm
Found a couple more minor issues with the installer.  Note if you delete the folder like your supposed to these won't happen.  Since you were trying to idiot proof it your deletion batch file need to get rid of a couple more things.  It leaves the batch files that I think were installed with 3.4a.  It also leaves old 3.6.9 exe files.

THIS IS NOT AN ISSUE WITH THE INSTALLER

The instructions tell you in plain English to uninstall and delete your Babylon Project folder before installing the new version! Do not blame the installer because you are unable to read English.

Hip asked me to try out the installer before those instructions were posted.
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: -Norbert- on January 27, 2008, 12:46:35 pm
I was just playing though "Drums of War I" mission 3 "Dropping the Sledgehammer" and a background planet had a black square around it. A moon that is also shown in the background is drawn fine though.
I also tried replaying the mission just in case, but the it looked the same as the first time.
Since I never played through Drums of War in any earlier build, I can't say wether this is due to 3.4b.

In case you need it, my graphics settings are this:
OpenGL 1280x1024, 32 bit, Trilinear filter, 4x anisotorpic Filter
-ambient_factor 65

Boxex checked in "Graphics"
Enable specular
Enable glowmaps
Enable enviroment maps
Enable jpg/tga textures
Enable mipmapping
Disable motion debris
Apply Lightning to Missiles

And I used the INF build that came with the installer (when I played through the EAW Demo I used the "normal" 3.6.9 build, but switched to the INF build since, because I read it was needed by some campaigns).

Since by browser is complaining about there not being enough free space to attach the screenshot directly to the post I uploaded it on ImageShack instead: http://img259.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tbp34bplanetblacksquareoz0.jpg
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: Vidmaster on January 27, 2008, 01:04:43 pm
I can't say wether this is due to 3.4b.

it is not.

I guess all of us are very unappreciative towards IP :blah: . IP, TBP 3.4b is great! Thanks for sacrificing your free time  :yes:
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: hip63 on January 27, 2008, 02:00:49 pm
Hip.

For the new version of the installer please do the following.

1) Remove the code to delete files (since you're never guaranteed to get all of them).
2) Add a warning along the lines of the one written in bold next to the download link. Recommending that users uninstall any old version of the Babylon Project and delete it's directory before installing the new version.

This is the best we can do for the user when it comes to the problem of old files in their directory. These changes in place any further problems they have are down to their own stupidity.

I hear and obey o' great darkness!
(it was being a pain in the ass anyway)

I will remove the code and the following will be added to the readme:

IMPORTANT NOTE: It recommended that when installing this version to create a fresh install. You should backup your pilots and any other custom missions or files you wish to save before uninstalling. Go to Control Panel and uninstall any TBP previous versions and delete any old TBP folders before installing this version. Installing over previous versions and patches may cause issues.

How's that?

hip63 :p
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: Vidmaster on January 27, 2008, 02:14:02 pm
use (b) CAPITAL LETTERS IN BLOOD-RED (/b)  :)
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: Yathin on January 27, 2008, 02:55:47 pm
use (b) CAPITAL LETTERS IN BLOOD-RED (/b)  :)

I also recommend increasing the font size of it  :nervous:  :p
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: FUBAR-BDHR on January 28, 2008, 12:20:13 am
Don't know if this is a TBP specific problem or not but I just had a crash.

Code: [Select]
Error: ai_find_path tring to find a path (27) that doesn't exist, on ship BI Denubolart
File:D:\C++\Freespace\fs2_open 3.6.9\code\ai\AiCode.cpp
Line: 3873
[This filename points to the location of a file on the computer that built this executable]

Call stack:
------------------------------------------------------------------
    fs2_open_3_6_9_INF.exe 00605b31()
    fs2_open_3_6_9_INF.exe 00606445()
    fs2_open_3_6_9_INF.exe 004bec30()
    fs2_open_3_6_9_INF.exe 004c0ca4()
    fs2_open_3_6_9_INF.exe 004c0e71()
    fs2_open_3_6_9_INF.exe 004926ae()
    fs2_open_3_6_9_INF.exe 00428483()
    fs2_open_3_6_9_INF.exe 010cf640()
    fs2_open_3_6_9_INF.exe 0108567c()
    fs2_open_3_6_9_INF.exe 010af6a4()
    fs2_open_3_6_9_INF.exe 010af25c()
    fs2_open_3_6_9_INF.exe 010a9874()
    fs2_open_3_6_9_INF.exe 0106881c()
    fs2_open_3_6_9_INF.exe 01074d0c()
    fs2_open_3_6_9_INF.exe 0107dc78()
------------------------------------------------------------------


Also the sound crackling I reported previously seems to be only on this specific machine.  Probably the cheap headphones. 
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: IPAndrews on January 28, 2008, 03:06:33 am
Quote from: hip63
IMPORTANT NOTE: It recommended that when installing this version to create a fresh install. You should backup your pilots and any other custom missions or files you wish to save before uninstalling. Go to Control Panel and uninstall any TBP previous versions and delete any old TBP folders before installing this version. Installing over previous versions and patches may cause issues.

Gets the message across. Thank you Hip.
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: IPAndrews on January 28, 2008, 03:10:59 am
I think this one may actually have been fixed in 3.6.10 already actually.

If that's the case is there any chance you guys can make a concerted effort to keep 3.6.10 compatible with TBP 3.4b? Because I really am not enthusiastic about updating TBP to make it 3.6.10 compatible, and probably won't.
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: IPAndrews on January 28, 2008, 03:18:12 am
Don't know if this is a TBP specific problem or not but I just had a crash.

It's an error with a pof. Causing the game to stop and a message to appear is no surprise. If the game will not allow you to continue and actually crashes then that's a game engine bug.

I'm assuming you're running the debug build though. In my experience running the release build will make these errors go away. Thanks for the report.
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: IPAndrews on January 28, 2008, 03:21:13 am
I was just playing though "Drums of War I" mission 3 "Dropping the Sledgehammer" and a background planet had a black square around it.

Yes. Thanks for the reminder. Unfortunately I don't know how to fix such errors. Though I know it's no doubt down to the alpha channel of the planet image file. If someone wants to fix it and send me the corrected version I will have a look at it. Otherwise this will remain unfixed.  :(
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: Vidmaster on January 28, 2008, 04:54:36 am
Don't know if this is a TBP specific problem or not but I just had a crash.

It's an error with a pof. Causing the game to stop and a message to appear is no surprise. If the game will not allow you to continue and actually crashes then that's a game engine bug.

I'm assuming you're running the debug build though. In my experience running the release build will make these errors go away. Thanks for the report.

That's the mission where I also encountered the "Brakiri Tashkat bug". Damn, that battle is buggy... :mad:
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: IPAndrews on January 28, 2008, 06:47:28 am
Quote from: Vidmaster link=topic=51779.msg1047234#msg1047234
That's the mission where I also encountered the [i
"Brakiri Tashkat bug"[/i]. Damn, that battle is buggy... :mad:

No it's not. People shouldn't be playing the game using the debug build unless they are doing it for a specific reason.
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: IPAndrews on January 28, 2008, 08:36:00 am
2. - A Inferno Builds Folder and a Debug Folder will be added to the TBP Start Menu Group. (for Vidmaster)

Hip.

About this. I am vetoing this. Please do not add these executables to the start menu.

If a campaign needs to use these builds it is up to the campaign to either add it's own Start Menu items or tell the user how to run the Inferno build.
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: karajorma on January 28, 2008, 09:03:47 am
I tend to agree. For a start Inferno builds won't run multiplayer games so you're facing a real support nightmare there once multiplayer missions begin to appear.
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: Vidmaster on January 28, 2008, 09:48:50 am
*noted*
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: starlord on January 28, 2008, 10:52:22 am
Great news for a great MOD, guys. However, please remember to keep the older release 2 so we can keep playing the older campaigns (tales of janus, etc...) before finding a more convenient solution.
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: FUBAR-BDHR on January 28, 2008, 01:09:06 pm
Don't know if this is a TBP specific problem or not but I just had a crash.

It's an error with a pof. Causing the game to stop and a message to appear is no surprise. If the game will not allow you to continue and actually crashes then that's a game engine bug.

I'm assuming you're running the debug build though. In my experience running the release build will make these errors go away. Thanks for the report.

This happened with the regular inferno build.  I wasn't running debug but I am going to give debug a try so I can at least get a log file if it crashes again.  It did stop the game with the press OK to enter (can remember) cancel to exit window.  No error.log or fs2_open.log was produced.
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: Vidmaster on January 28, 2008, 03:18:30 pm
Quote from: Vidmaster link=topic=51779.msg1047234#msg1047234
That's the mission where I also encountered the [i
"Brakiri Tashkat bug"[/i]. Damn, that battle is buggy... :mad:

No it's not. People shouldn't be playing the game using the debug build unless they are doing it for a specific reason.

I had that Crash in the Inferno standart build, it had something to do with the beam turrets missplaced on the model. After setting them to "none", no more crash occured. I never had problems with the League base.  ( I should mention that FUBAR and I are talking about the same mission, he is currently testing FH2260)
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: hip63 on January 31, 2008, 05:53:46 pm
2. - A Inferno Builds Folder and a Debug Folder will be added to the TBP Start Menu Group. (for Vidmaster)

Hip.

About this. I am vetoing this. Please do not add these executables to the start menu.

If a campaign needs to use these builds it is up to the campaign to either add it's own Start Menu items or tell the user how to run the Inferno build.

This has been done

hip63 :p
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: terran_emperor on January 31, 2008, 07:52:31 pm
when will this see full release?
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: terran_emperor on February 01, 2008, 02:07:29 am
so by easter at the earliest...(The 2 week holiday not the weekend)

Damn...Well at least ill be able to plan out those Crusade Missions more
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: IPAndrews on February 01, 2008, 02:08:29 am
Anything else you want fixing?
Anything else you want adding?
Speak now!
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: IPAndrews on February 01, 2008, 02:13:47 am
Damn...Well at least ill be able to plan out those Crusade Missions more

Depends on whether you want to spend the bandwidth downloading something that will shortly be replaced. If bandwidth is no issue then download this release. Look at the list of fixes? See any huge changes in tables or game balancing? The fact is the only table change is changing stars.tbl to reinstate the p_gas10 planet.
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: IPAndrews on February 01, 2008, 02:22:16 am
Damn...Well at least ill be able to plan out those Crusade Missions more

Also be warned that if, after choosing not to help with testing, you complain about bugs in the next release? I will crucify you.  :nod:
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: terran_emperor on February 01, 2008, 03:28:29 am
Only bug i get are in my N-VIDIA graphics card as opposed to the SCP Engine.
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: starlord on February 01, 2008, 11:35:14 am
Hmm, vid card incompatibilities with SCP? Are they frequent? can we do something about them?
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: IPAndrews on February 01, 2008, 11:37:17 am
You can click this link.

http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,34786.0.html
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: FUBAR-BDHR on February 01, 2008, 12:19:43 pm
This is more of a request than something that needs fixing.  Since it looks like the exe is going to need rebuilt anyways is it possible to include Kara's new team loadout code? http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,51837.0.html

It would really help in making multi race TvT missions.  If it can't no problem.


I did run into one other crash but have not tried to reproduce it.  I was running debug at the time to try to isolate the other crash.  It occurred right at the end of the next mission (not the one with the previous crash) but did not put anything unusual in the fs2_open.log.  The log actually shows it loading the next mission and my pilot file was updated as if I had finished the mission.  I'm planning on testing that a little more tonight. 

After further testing the new crash only happens when running debug mode.  It does not happen in the regular inferno build.  It only looked like it crashed at the end of the mission.  It actually crashed during load of the next mission.  Log files here just in case:  01/28 log (http://fubar4.fubar.org/mantis/tbp/fs2_open_01_28_08.log)  02/01 log (http://fubar4.fubar.org/mantis/tbp/fs2_open_02_01_08.log) 
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: IPAndrews on February 01, 2008, 05:24:17 pm
is it possible to include Kara's new team loadout code?

No. Sorry.
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: starlord on February 02, 2008, 04:04:48 am
Are ALL the babylon 5 universe ships present in the MOD? All races and all ships (including the planet killers and the motherships (drack)?

Excuse me for the silly question, but I just saw the trailers on youtube, and they caught my curiosity.
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: -Norbert- on February 02, 2008, 11:23:27 am
The Drakh mothership and the Vorlon planet killer are in.
Not sure about the Shadow deathcloud's "internal structure parts" though, but I don't think so.
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: hip63 on February 02, 2008, 11:31:12 pm
Another small adjustment to the beta 2 installer, OpenAL 1.1 (latest version) will now install silently (solves issue on the DVD version) :)
(Note: Only installs if OpenAL is not present or an older version is found, it will not install if a new version of OpenAL is found) :yes:

hip63 :p

HINT: Nobody, not even IPAndrews, knows yet just how cool the TBP DVD will be! :pimp: (except me of course) ;7 TBP Fans will love it! :D
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: terran_emperor on February 03, 2008, 12:27:38 am
So, hip63, when can we expect this?
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: hip63 on February 03, 2008, 01:43:56 am
First, a TBP v3.4b Beta Installer has to be released, tested by the community and certified "FINAL" by IPAndrews. Once a build is approved as the final release, the The Babylon Project DVD will be available about a week later. That allows for any final TBP Campaign Pack v1.1 updates to be incorperated plus build the final DVD files and get them uploaded to servers. Plus I'm hoping to get one or two luck bastards to test the DVD before public release ;7

The DVD is going to be so slick and professional looking, you won't hardly believe you didn't pay money for it (especially if you print out the DVD covers and labels) :pimp:

hip63 :p
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: karajorma on February 03, 2008, 03:05:10 am
This is more of a request than something that needs fixing.  Since it looks like the exe is going to need rebuilt anyways is it possible to include Kara's new team loadout code? http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,51837.0.html

It would really help in making multi race TvT missions.  If it can't no problem.

If you make missions that use that you can simply include the exe (I'll even build you one with the TBP logo if you want) but there's no way 3.6.10 code is known to be stable enough that I'd recommend using it for a release and there's no way I'm porting team loadout to 3.6.9 (It took me over a month to make all those changes and I had to almost completely re-write the loadout editor).
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: starlord on February 03, 2008, 03:48:26 am
Do you intend at some point to incorporate ALL babylon 5 ships? Or will you stick with this number? If you don't mind me asking, that is...
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: terran_emperor on February 03, 2008, 06:11:28 am
Well, the TBP team seems to have a set number of ships, but that doesn't stop others from making the models of the missing ships themselves
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: FUBAR-BDHR on February 03, 2008, 11:52:23 am
This is more of a request than something that needs fixing.  Since it looks like the exe is going to need rebuilt anyways is it possible to include Kara's new team loadout code? http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,51837.0.html

It would really help in making multi race TvT missions.  If it can't no problem.

If you make missions that use that you can simply include the exe (I'll even build you one with the TBP logo if you want) but there's no way 3.6.10 code is known to be stable enough that I'd recommend using it for a release and there's no way I'm porting team loadout to 3.6.9 (It took me over a month to make all those changes and I had to almost completely re-write the loadout editor).

OK that's where I got confused.  The topic said 3.6.9 branch not 3.6.10 so I was thinking it was added to 3.6.9.  Never did understand all that branch stuff. 

No problem notepad still does the trick right?
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: karajorma on February 04, 2008, 02:20:13 am
3.6.10 is on the 3.6.9 branch. BtRL and TBP use builds from the same branch but based on a split in January 2007. Basically the builds they use are an unofficial 3.6.9.x branch which while 100% compatible with 3.6.10 won't have the majority of the new stuff in 3.6.10.
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: den5 on February 04, 2008, 04:45:18 am
Why you still use old EA Hybrid model?
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: IPAndrews on February 04, 2008, 04:48:39 am
Why you still use old EA Hybrid model?

Because my powers of telepathy failed me and so I didn't know there was a new one.
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: FUBAR-BDHR on February 04, 2008, 09:55:13 pm
Well I just found 3 problems in 2 multi player attempts.  First is with the B5 station.  The rear end can be flown right through like it's not solid.  Second is with the BI Falkosi.  It's default primaries are messed up in dogfight configuration.  First primary is left blank instead of getting assigned the Drazi 35mm  second one is assigned correctly however.  Third is of course the ships without valid secondaries problem in a dogfight.  Same BI Falkosi but there are probably others.  I think I've seen this discussed before.  Well no BI Falkosi in my dogfight anymore.


Forgot to add that the block cursor problem is not mission related.  After a dogfight with myself one PC had the problem the other didn't.
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: IPAndrews on February 05, 2008, 02:41:32 am
First is with the B5 station.  The rear end can be flown right through like it's not solid.

This is a shame, as it is not fixable. The model was compiled using the 3d studio max convertor and I have neither that nor the source files.

  Second is with the BI Falkosi.  It's default primaries are messed up in dogfight configuration.  First primary is left blank instead of getting assigned the Drazi 35mm  second one is assigned correctly however. 

This I can probably fix.

Third is of course the ships without valid secondaries problem in a dogfight.  Same BI Falkosi but there are probably others.  I think I've seen this discussed before.  Well no BI Falkosi in my dogfight anymore.

I don't understand this problem Fubar. The Falkosi has secondaries. The Brakiri get those meteor shower rockets don't they? What's the problem? Also some types of ship just don't have missiles? Like the Drakh Fighter/Raider. Is this causing some huge problem? I want to help but you'll have to give me some information here.

Forgot to add that the block cursor problem is not mission related.  After a dogfight with myself one PC had the problem the other didn't.

Note to self: add this to my Mantis bug report.
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: karajorma on February 05, 2008, 09:49:34 am
Third is of course the ships without valid secondaries problem in a dogfight.  Same BI Falkosi but there are probably others.  I think I've seen this discussed before.  Well no BI Falkosi in my dogfight anymore.

That issue is already in Mantis. I'd planned to look at it next in fact. It's a code problem. Not anything the TBP team have done wrong.
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: FUBAR-BDHR on February 05, 2008, 01:05:39 pm
It has regular secondaries but not dogfight secondaries.  I knew I read about the bug somewhere but couldn't remember if it was Mantis or BSG.  The thunderbolt's third bank doesn't cause the problem.  I'm guessing the primary problem is due to the x-ray gun being the default primary but not available for dogfight.
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: IPAndrews on February 06, 2008, 02:54:44 am
the x-ray gun being the default primary but not available for dogfight.

The x-ray gun is disabled? You know when these peculiarities appear in the tables they are usually for a reason. Nine times out of ten there's method behind the madness. Maybe there's a problem with beam weapons and multiplayer? Kara?
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: FUBAR-BDHR on February 06, 2008, 01:38:51 pm
Most of the time when a weapon isn't available for dogfight it is just for balancing.  It is available for TvT just not dogfight.  Kind of like how FS2 had all those -D variants of the weapons to make dogfighting more balanced.  I doubt it couldn't be used but would be unfair. 

I'll try it in a TvT to see if there are any issues.
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: karajorma on February 07, 2008, 03:48:09 am
In that case the tables should provide the weapons. It's up to the FREDder to make sure the missions are fair.
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: IPAndrews on February 07, 2008, 05:02:59 am
In that case the tables should provide the weapons. It's up to the FREDder to make sure the missions are fair.

My view exactly. If there's no technical reason for them to be taken out they shouldn't be. If you know how to edit tables, add the weapons back in and esnure there's no technical problems using them. If there isn't I'll reinstate them.
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: FUBAR-BDHR on February 07, 2008, 11:54:05 pm
Might have just found 2 more minor glitches.  Briefing class animations (the ones that pop up when you click on a briefing icon) for asteroid and unknown are almost entirely black.  The asteroid looks like only half the model is there or you are inside of it.  The unknown I couldn't even see. 
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: IPAndrews on February 08, 2008, 01:33:05 am
When you double click you see the model itself. The unknown is an invisible model (since you don't know what it is). Sounds like you're too close to the asteroid model to see it correctly. There may be a table entry to fix there, then again it may be choosing the viewing position automatically. Not sure. Will look at it.
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b beta feedback
Post by: FUBAR-BDHR on February 08, 2008, 01:47:49 pm
I was going to attach screen shots of the asteroid last night but I forgot to convert them to .jpg.  By the time I did and came back to edit the message HLP was doing it's weekly backup.    Here's what I am seeing on the asteroid.  asteroid1 (http://fubar4.fubar.org/fubar/tbp/screen0204.jpg) asteroid2 (http://fubar4.fubar.org/fubar/tbp/screen0205.jpg) asteroid3 (http://fubar4.fubar.org/fubar/tbp/screen0206.jpg)  I didn't manage to capture one where most of the asteroid shows up for a split second. 

I figured there would be some kind of blob, question mark, or something for the unknown.  Can't remember what was in FS2.  If I wasn't debugging missions I would never even bother to click on them.   
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: FUBAR-BDHR on February 08, 2008, 10:17:17 pm
Just made the table changes and tried the BI x-ray beam in a dogfight.  Worked fine except for one small detail.  No red screen damage flash on client side when player hit.  Client still gets the screen shutter and damage just not the redish screen for a split second. 
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: IPAndrews on February 09, 2008, 03:50:13 pm
Thank you to all who contributed.

The updated files are being transferred to Hip63.
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: Darkestone on February 29, 2008, 06:55:08 am
 :D
theres a typo in the intro movie

"BUILT IN A GAME BY VOLITION INCORPERATED"
"BUILT IN A GAME BY VOLITION INCORPORATED"

AND BY THE WAY....

any cockpit around here??

can you make the game less dark? i've tried remove the -ambient_factor 65 line but it goes too brilliant, theres any point in the middle???

Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: karajorma on February 29, 2008, 07:15:37 am
Change the number to something between 65 and 120 (the default).
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: Jeff Vader on February 29, 2008, 07:52:55 am
can you make the game less dark? i've tried remove the -ambient_factor 65 line but it goes too brilliant, theres any point in the middle???
-ambient_factor 0 -no_emissive_light
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: IPAndrews on February 29, 2008, 08:09:58 am
Yes there are many possible values.
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: karajorma on February 29, 2008, 10:26:10 am
can you make the game less dark? i've tried remove the -ambient_factor 65 line but it goes too brilliant, theres any point in the middle???
-ambient_factor 0 -no_emissive_light

How would that make the game less dark? :p
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: Darkestone on February 29, 2008, 12:01:13 pm
IPAndrews could you please tell us what we have  to look to be in the final release???

cockpits?
the full earth/minbari war?
 
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: Vidmaster on February 29, 2008, 12:05:09 pm
bugfixes and multiplayer.   that's it. The game is already done (from a content point of view)
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: Darkestone on February 29, 2008, 12:07:16 pm
so... no cockpits :(
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: Jeff Vader on February 29, 2008, 12:13:17 pm
can you make the game less dark? i've tried remove the -ambient_factor 65 line but it goes too brilliant, theres any point in the middle???
-ambient_factor 0 -no_emissive_light

How would that make the game less dark? :p
Well, I suppose one can always access the settings and twist the gamma down a notch. But... that just isn't pretty anymore.

Though there is, of course, -spec_static. I use 1.5 which seems reasonable.
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: karajorma on February 29, 2008, 12:17:30 pm
I think you're missing the point. Darkestone found the game too dark and wanted to make it lighter. Turning off ambient lighting would make things worse.
Title: Re: TBP 3.4b feedback
Post by: Jeff Vader on February 29, 2008, 12:37:51 pm
Oh. There was a 'less' in there. Sorry. I guess I read it too fast.