Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: terran_emperor on February 17, 2008, 09:04:58 am
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proabably because IMHO...Silent and unnecessary letters should be banned.
Queue should be just Q
Cue should be q
Queen spellt Qween
Rescue spelt resq...
And all those uneccessary Ks like in "know"..."Knight" etc
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And I guess spelled should be spelt? :P
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Queen spellt Qween
Qwiin
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proabably because IMHO...Silent and unnecessary letters should be banned.
Then study Italian. There are no silent/unnecessary letters.
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Yeah but it comes from Latin. And anything that spawns from that infernal language is bound to be evil.
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Complicated grammar is good. Prevents misunderstandings.
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Complicated grammar is good. Prevents misunderstandings.
Yeah but appropinquationistibus is rather unnecessary.
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I prefer that to:
"You're stupid(singular)" being the same as "you're stupid(plural)"
:P
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Six straight years.
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Eh? What do you mean? Six years of English for you?
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It doesn't matter. :p
Only an idiot would get that joke anyway...
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You moved to the UK six years ago, right?
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Then study Italian. There are no silent/unnecessary letters.
like in german... everything esay to write and pronounce...
Durchschnittlich
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You moved to the UK six years ago, right?
7 this year.
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So? What's the connection with the subject of the discussion?
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proabably because IMHO...Silent and unnecessary letters should be banned.
Then study Italian. There are no silent/unnecessary letters.
O RLY?
Capice Italiano?
che --> "kay"
buongiorno --> "bohn-jorno"
gnocchi --> "nyo-kee"
:P A lot of languages do this.
Yeah but it comes from Latin. And anything that spawns from that infernal language is bound to be evil.
And no, English is actually a Germane language.
Of course, German is derived from Latin, so you're partly correct there.
It's more like the grandson of Latin, not the direct spawn.
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<Enkripted mesidgs>
Juu aar not tolking öbaut gramar, juu'r tolking öbaut speling.
If ai rote Inglish hau ai pronauns it, juu vud häv sirius trabul riiding it.
Thas, it's betör to juus comon, estäblishd speling forms thän start äplaing juur oun öpinions öbaut hau diferent wörds äär spelt.
<Mesidgs ends>
<Deciphered message>
<You are not talking about grammar, you're talking about spelling.
If I wrote English how I pronounce it, you would have serious trouble reading it.
Thus, it's better to use common, established spellign forms than start applying your own opinions about how different words are spelt.
<Message ends>
On other news, the European Union has revealed plans for a groundbreaking English Spelling Reform. While English will continue to be one of the official langauges in Brussels, certain changes are being considered in order to help non-English speakers comprehend the complicated and often illogical English spelling rules.
"Euro-English", as it will be called, is expected to find international accetance, as it is logical, simple and abolishes the confusion between British and American English. Schoolchildren, parents and teachers especially will be delighted. Some resistance is expected with established writers, which will no doubt be overcome as older writers are replaced by younger, forward-thinking ones.
In order to ease the transition, a five-year plan is envisioned, over which the changes will be gradually introduced.
In the first year, "s" will replace the soft "c". Sertainly, this will make the sivil servants jump with joy. The hard "c" will be dropped in favour of the "k". This should klear up konfusion, and keyboards kan have one less letter.
There will be growing publik enthusiasm in the sekond year when the troublesome "ph" will be replaced with the "f". This will make words like fotograf 20% shorter.
In the 3rd year, publik akseptanse of the new spelling kan be expekted to reach the stage where more komplikated changes are possible. Governments will enkourage the removal of double letters which have always ben a deterent to akurate speling. Also, al wil agre that the horibl mes of the silent "e" in the languag is disgrasful and it should disapar.
By the 4th yer peopl wil be reseptiv to steps such as replasing "th" with "z" and "w" with "v".
During ze fifz yer, ze unesesary "o" kan be dropd from vords kontaining "ou" and after ziz fifz yer, ve vil hav a reli sensibl riten styl. Zer vil be no mor trubl or difikultis and evrivun vil find it ezi tu understand ech oza.
Ze drem of a united urop vil finali kum tru.
Sometimes, it seems to me that Internet is already using this tongue instead of English being the Lingua Franca... :p
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German is not derived from latin I don't think, I thought only the Romance languages were derived from latin. German came mostly from the invaders who were constantly coming in from the north and settled mostly in germany. Britain exchanged hands so many times that its native language became sort of a hodge podge of languages, both Germanic and Romantic. This is at least, how I've come to understand, and I may have misunderstood a thing or two, but I'm fairly sure I'm right about English being a mix of the two, and German not being based on latin. Might I point you to the language tree (http://www.public.iastate.edu/~cfford/Indoeuropean%20language%20family%20tree.jpg) as an example. As it shows, English is primarily Germanic, but the German branch has been separate since before Latin existed. English merely shares a great deal of its vocabulary with the Latin languages.
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I think you'll find there is some Celtic and Gaelic influences in English also.
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Moved to GD, as this has nothing to do with Freespace.
On other news, the European Union has revealed plans for a groundbreaking English Spelling Reform. While English will continue to be one of the official langauges in Brussels, certain changes are being considered in order to help non-English speakers comprehend the complicated and often illogical English spelling rules.
It actually makes some sense until the fourth point. :D
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I think you'll find there is some Celtic and Gaelic influences in English also.
Yeah, I thought so, but I wasn't as sure about that one, and I didn't rule it out specifically. It was just far enough away on the tree that I couldn't state it for sure, but having the Scots and the Irish right next door pretty much ensures some overlap there I guess.
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Pfft, you Yur-Oh-Pee-Ins and your Romance/Germanic languages.
Want a fun language to learn? Try Arabic, where forgetting a dot turns "US armed forces" to "US naked forces"
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Bah. Most foreign languages that I know simply much suck when it comes to the logic of pronouncing letters. The only good rule that I understand is that if the letter exists there it should be said. Otherwise you are wasting valuable space and ink. But, given the willingness of English people to change anything I find the efforts largely wasted. We should concentrate on the American brothers on this one, if we want something to happen.
That being said, the English grammar would indeed need some clarification, but it doesn't even come to close with French. German is a little bit better, but they also have letters that are silent.
Also, if ai wud rait Inglis wööds äs ai hea dem, it wud luuk laik diis.
Nice to have some general rules about this, right?
Besides, Arabic is not even the funniest language regarding misunderstandings. I again have to congratulate my own native language about the possible ridiculous situations what the foreigner can cause if he mistakes a couple of letters in the end of the word and thinks nobody will notice. It could simply change the message from informal content to incredibly odd sexual preference, for example. Which is, of course, fun for everybody!
Mika
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"simply much suck" <- In case anyone wondered, that was intentional. Rest of grammar mistakes, no.
Mika
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<Enkripted mesidgs>
Juu aar not tolking öbaut gramar, juu'r tolking öbaut speling.
If ai rote Inglish hau ai pronauns it, juu vud häv sirius trabul riiding it.
Thas, it's betör to juus comon, estäblishd speling forms thän start äplaing juur oun öpinions öbaut hau diferent wörds äär spelt.
<Mesidgs ends>
Hell yeah. We should all just type English the way we pronounce it. Life would be so much more exciting that way.
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Found an interesting site about this at:
http://www.zompist.com/spell.html
If a software can pronounce about 90% of the 5000 word text correctly, English doesn't seem so illogical after all? Or maybe it does - would be interesting to see how much would the software guess correctly if it tried standard Finnish. 100% Anyone?
Mika
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I took 4 years of Spanish, and as much as I had a hard time grasping conjugations as time went on, the pronunciation of letters was pretty much constant. There are far fewer silent letters in it than in English. I would imagine that any software that can get 90% in english should be able to get 99%+ in Spanish.
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I have an idea! Let's set our standards based on the progress of the weakest portion of the population in regards to intelligence! We'll completely ignore the needs of the people who really show potential, and in effect, killing any hopes of the promising group of the population, thereby forcing society to become stagnant and unproductive! Doesn't that sound GREAT?
:p
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Did you just say Mexicans are unproductive?
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Did you just say Mexicans are unproductive?
If you just implied that Mexicans are unintelligent, then I guess so.
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Considering that sizzler was more referring to the people who think "predicate" refers to a girl with a baby in the cooker, which could very well be 25% of the people I graduated high school with, I don't think he meant only the Mexicans.
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Six straight years.
And you've been gay for the rest ?
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Six straight years.
And you've been gay for the rest ?
Puns are funny.
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Always reminds me of when 'Hello' readers in the UK started throwing stones at a paediatrician who got stones thrown at her house because some people were too dense to be able to tell the difference in spelling between that and paedophile....
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Wait...she got stones thrown at her person AND her home, or is that a typo?
Either way it's still retarded (the stone throwing, not your post).
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Yeah, sorry, meant her house, she also get graffiti all over the walls.
And yes, I think 'retarded' probably describes the mentality behind it quite nicely.
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Screw it all. Lets learn Shivan.
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I'may a igbay anfay of igpay atinlay.
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Ana jundi fy al khata joweea fee montree fee weelyit kaleeforneea. Ana amreekee. Adresoo fee feeshirs fee indeeanna
Transliteration is fun
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Hey, I understand some of that! My basic Arabic has not totally deserted me!
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Always reminds me of when 'Hello' readers in the UK started throwing stones at a paediatrician who got stones thrown at her house because some people were too dense to be able to tell the difference in spelling between that and paedophile....
Or of some of those people who attacked Johan and kicked the living daylights out of him, because his name looked like "Joran van der Sloot" (Do I need to explain who that is?).
If a software can pronounce about 90% of the 5000 word text correctly, English doesn't seem so illogical after all? Or maybe it does - would be interesting to see how much would the software guess correctly if it tried standard Finnish. 100% Anyone?
it's a computer program. It inherits the logicalness of all its programmers.
Over spellingsregels. Elke taal heeft wel onlogische spellingsregels, gewoon omdat het een spellingsvorm een verzameling is van alle spellingsvormen die in de middeleeuwen gebruikt werden. In die tijd had je natuurlijk overal plaatselijke dialecten, en hield iedere monnik zijn eigen spellingsregels erop na. Als je dan een algemene taal gaat ontwikkelelen, komen er gewoon nog wat fouten in te zitten, en onlogische dingen. Maak dan een spellingswijzing, en dan zijn er weer andere dingen die onlogisch zijn...
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Hey, I understand some of that! My basic Arabic has not totally deserted me!
I'm a soldier in the Air Force in Monterey, California. I'm American. I live in Fishers, Indiana.
That's the translation.
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Screw it all. Lets learn Shivan.
Damn. My vocal cords aren't capable of producing electro-magnetic transmissions. :p
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Hah, I actually ended up doing quite interesting surfing trip because of this topic. I should indeed soon get my bicycle back from the service, so I can get back doing the preferred stuff: smacking hands to a bag of rocks.
But in anyways, it turned out that when Tolkien synthesized the Elven language, Finnish played quite a major part in the grammar. No need to write the personal noun anywhere, making a single word a question that can replace a whole sentence, yup, both properties sound pretty familiar. Also conjugation forms seemed to be awfully familiar.
So how it works?
kysyä - to ask
(minä = I) kysyn - I ask
(hän = he) kysyy - he asks
kysyisinköhän - I wonder if I could ask
kysyisimmeköhän - We wonder if we could ask
tehdäksemme - In order for us to do
Then another example of a small error, which totally changes the meaning of a sentence and context:
"Pannaan pöydällä" - "Let's f**k on the table" (no need to explain)
"Pannaan pöydälle" - "Set it on the table" (about moving some crate)
Then imagine a Italian man saying this to a Finnish man when they are moving crates. Usually the result is hysteric sniggering from Finns part and they never answer if somebody asks what's so funny. They will probably only say that they understood what you meant.
So you thought you had seen difficult conjugation forms?
Mika
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That's pretty awesome. I need to learn how to pronounce that just so I can go to Finland and 'accidentally' say that to pretty women.
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That's pretty awesome. I need to learn how to pronounce that just so I can go to Finland and 'accidentally' say that to pretty women.
In that case they will probably think it really was an accident.
Or hope so?
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That's pretty awesome. I need to learn how to pronounce that just so I can go to Finland and 'accidentally' say that to pretty women.
You might also find the following phrases useful when hitting on pretty women:
- Onko sinulla hirvenpaska korvassasi? Sinun saatana kermalimpo.
- Paljon lunta mutta ei taskolampua.
- Paljonku kourallinen joulukuusia maksaa?
- Minulla on keilapallo nahkahousuissani.
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That's pretty awesome. I need to learn how to pronounce that just so I can go to Finland and 'accidentally' say that to pretty women.
You dare to think they would accept you to carry their stuff when they are moving? The carrying part is reserved for Finnish men only (that and only that).
Mika
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That's pretty awesome. I need to learn how to pronounce that just so I can go to Finland and 'accidentally' say that to pretty women.
You dare to think they would accept you to carry their stuff when they are moving? The carrying part is reserved for Finnish men only (that and only that).
Mika
QFT. While we're at it, please allow me to translate something partially related that was said in IRC a few years ago. It's quite accurate, I might add:
Barbecuing - men's job?
The definition of barbecue: the only form of cooking that 'real' men use.
When a man makes food by barbecuing, the following takes place:
1. The woman goes to the store.
2. The woman makes the salad, the sides and the dessert.
3. The woman prepares the meat, puts it on a tray with the necessary equipment and takes it to the man who is hanging around the grill drinking beer.
4. The man sets the meat on the grill.
5. The woman goes in to set the table and to check on the status of the sides.
6. The woman comes out to tell the man that the meat is burning.
7. The man takes the meat from the grill and hands it to the woman.
8. The woman sets the food on plates and takes them to the table.
9. After eating, the woman cleans the table and does the dishes.
10. The man asks "There, wasn't it nice to have a day off from cooking, luv?" and, when seeing the irritated look on the woman's face, thinks "Some women just aren't happy with anything".
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Of course, German is derived from Latin, so you're partly correct there.
no it's not
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1. The woman goes to the store. - Only because she didn't pick up enough food on the last regularly scheduled trip to the store.
3. The woman prepares the meat, puts it on a tray with the necessary equipment and takes it to the man who is hanging around the grill drinking beer. - This is not always the case, usually only when she thinks the man puts too much seasoning on the meat, or not enough, so it's her own fault this is required.
6. The woman comes out to tell the man that the meat is burning. - now that's only when the man is an alcoholic, and not actively using the beer to keep the flames down.
8. The woman sets the food on plates and takes them to the table. - you forget that the man has to clean the grill after removing the meat while it's still hot
9. After eating, the woman cleans the table and does the dishes. - the man has to finish putting away the grill, which can take a while, since taking proper care of a grill is sort of a pride thing for men
10. The man asks "There, wasn't it nice to have a day off from cooking, luv?" and, when seeing the irritated look on the woman's face, thinks "Some women just aren't happy with anything". - I have nothing for anyone stupid enough to say that one.
This is all moot really, because that wasn't defining barbecuing, but rather grilling, possibly with barbecue sauce. Barbecuing is something a bit different, at least according to Alton Brown. It has many different regional definitions, but my roommate is very adamant against calling throwing meat on propane or charcoal grill barbecuing, and that it should only be used for more indirect methods of cooking the meat. I don't really care though and still call it barbecuing most of the time :)
Of course, German is derived from Latin, so you're partly correct there.
no it's not
Bit late Kaz? (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,52246.msg1054460.html#msg1054460)
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dude that graphic comes from the public webpages of the school i go to
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Awesome. I had seen it a while ago on the net, so I just image-googled 'language tree' and it was in the featured results or whatever.
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Maybe we should start a thread of how to define 'real men' and what do they do for laughs?
I first wrote a recipe what 'real men' eat and how they acquire it, but reading it again I found it mispresenting. Anyways, there's nothing like fresh liver fried in cognac in the warmth of a campfire in local forest.
Mika
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Speaking of grammar, is meme pronounced "meemee" or "meem"?
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Barbecue is cooking with smoke. There is no direct contact with the heat source when barbecuing. Proper barbecuing takes hours. Barbecue that was made quickly (say, at a McDonald's) is known as faux barbecue.
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Meem.
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Cool.
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This is all moot really, because that wasn't defining barbecuing, but rather grilling, possibly with barbecue sauce. Barbecuing is something a bit different, at least according to Alton Brown. It has many different regional definitions, but my roommate is very adamant against calling throwing meat on propane or charcoal grill barbecuing, and that it should only be used for more indirect methods of cooking the meat. I don't really care though and still call it barbecuing most of the time :)
Fair enough. As a non-native yet quite fluent English speaker, I occasionally have difficulties figuring out all the nyanses between English words that translate into the same Finnish word or expression.
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An ever so slight :bump:
However, my sister just e-mailed me this, thought it was relevant to this discussion
English language!
If you ever feel stupid, then just read on. If you've learned to speak fluent English, you must be a genius! This little treatise on the lovely language we share is only for the brave. Peruse at your leisure, English lovers.
Reasons why the English language is so hard to learn:
1) The bandage was wound around the wound.
2) The farm was used to produce produce.
3) The dump was so full that it had to refuse more refuse.
4) We must polish the Polish furniture.
5) He could lead if he would get the lead out.
6) The soldier decided to desert his dessert in the desert.
7) Since there is no time like the present, he thought it was time to present the present.
8) A bass was painted on the head of the bass drum.
9) When shot at, the dove dove into the bushes.
10) I did not object to the object.
11) The insurance was invalid for the invalid.
12) There was a row among the oarsmen about how to row.
13) They were too close to the door to close it.
14) The buck does funny things when the does are present.
15) A seamstress and a sewer fell down into a sewer line.
16) To help with planting, the farmer taught his sow to sow.
17) The wind was too strong to wind the sail.
18) After a number of injections my jaw got number.
19) Upon seeing the tear in the painting I shed a tear.
20) I had to subject the subject to a series of tests.
There is no egg in eggplant nor ham in hamburger; neither apple nor pine in pineapple. English muffins weren't invented in England or French fries in France . Sweetmeats are candies while sweetbreads, which aren't sweet, are meat.
Quicksand works slowly, boxing rings are square and a guinea pig is neither from Guinea nor is it a pig. And why is it that writers write, but fingers don't fing, grocers don't groce and hammers don't ham?
If the plural of tooth is teeth, why isn't the plural of booth beeth? One goose, 2 geese. So one moose, 2 meese? If you have a bunch of odds and ends and get rid of all but one of them, what do you call it? Is it an odd, or an end?
If teachers taught, why didn't preachers praught? If a vegetarian eats vegetables, what does a humanitarian eat? In what language do people recite at a play and play at a recital; Ship by truck and send cargo by ship?
Have noses that run and feet that smell?
How can a slim chance and a fat chance be the same, while a wise man and a wise guy are opposites?
You have to marvel at the unique lunacy of a language in which your house can burn up as it burns down, in which you fill in a form by filling it out, and in which, an alarm goes off by going on.
English was invented by people, not computers, and it reflects the creativity of the human race, which, of course, is not a race at all. That is why, when the stars are out, they are visible, but when the lights are out, they are invisible.
P.S. - Why doesn't "Buick" rhyme with "quick"?
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Because it would be a brick. ;)
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It is a brick.
That's a cool list.
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Of course, German is derived from Latin, so you're partly correct there.
no it's not
It is :P
Hah, I actually ended up doing quite interesting surfing trip because of this topic. I should indeed soon get my bicycle back from the service, so I can get back doing the preferred stuff: smacking hands to a bag of rocks.
But in anyways, it turned out that when Tolkien synthesized the Elven language, Finnish played quite a major part in the grammar. No need to write the personal noun anywhere, making a single word a question that can replace a whole sentence, yup, both properties sound pretty familiar. Also conjugation forms seemed to be awfully familiar.
So how it works?
kysyä - to ask
(minä = I) kysyn - I ask
(hän = he) kysyy - he asks
kysyisinköhän - I wonder if I could ask
kysyisimmeköhän - We wonder if we could ask
tehdäksemme - In order for us to do
Then another example of a small error, which totally changes the meaning of a sentence and context:
"Pannaan pöydällä" - "Let's f**k on the table" (no need to explain)
"Pannaan pöydälle" - "Set it on the table" (about moving some crate)
Then imagine a Italian man saying this to a Finnish man when they are moving crates. Usually the result is hysteric sniggering from Finns part and they never answer if somebody asks what's so funny. They will probably only say that they understood what you meant.
So you thought you had seen difficult conjugation forms?
Mika
Tolkien's Quenya has been influenced by Finnish, ok, but I doubt Finnish had influence on Tolkien's Sindarin. It's not the case to generalize by saying "Elven" since the "Elven" of the films(the one everyone has heard at least one time) is Sindarin, not Quenya.
Long words...that's something Finnish has in common with Italian, the presence of words that in English can only be translated with sentences.
Ex.
Abbattetelo! = you <plural>, shoot him down! (imperative)
About the last part of your post. I don't know what does "Pannaan" suggest to an Italian, but pöydällä and pöydälle would have funny effects...
Poi dalla = then you <singular> give her, refered to the vag**a, it's a way to say "have sex". "Then have sex"(only for females, of course).
Poi dalle = then you <singular> give them(females, refered to "botte"), it's a way to say "have a fight".
Pannaan reminds "panna", however... :lol:
An ever so slight :bump:
However, my sister just e-mailed me this, thought it was relevant to this discussion
English language!
If you ever feel stupid, then just read on. If you've learned to speak fluent English, you must be a genius! This little treatise on the lovely language we share is only for the brave. Peruse at your leisure, English lovers.
Reasons why the English language is so hard to learn:
Eh? English might give problems with the correct pronunciation of words but it can't match French and Italian in terms of complexity and difficulty.
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Huh, for me it has always been like this:
- Grilling: hoat coals, wood, anything hot is used to fry MEAT (if not meat, it's not grilling). Best done with friends. Beer is typically included. Ends usually in a wrestling match.
- Barbecuing: the same as above but little more fancy with exotic sauce, marinades and alcohol, like wine, this is more related to the upper class behavior which can be found elsewhere than here. To be looked down if possible. Uppity stuff doesn't belong to the proletariat, comrade!
- Smoking (savustus): using smoke to cook food, as in smoked fish. Also can be done to cook food in a smoke sauna, where meat is hung slightly below the roof level. Again, a whole pig cooked this way is quite delicious.
- Bonfire (nuotio). A piece of salmon can be set on a wooden board (loimulohi), then this board is placed to the proximity of a bonfire - but not in contact. The fish is then cooked for several hours before it is eaten. Mostly delicious.
- Cold smoking (kylmäsavustus). This one is a little bit more difficult to explain so I won't even try it.
- Cookery in the criminal style (rosvopaisti). Is a relative to campfire cookery, but in this case meat wrapped inside a aluminum foil and the package is then dug under the burning logs. I.e. slaughter your neighbors sheep and cook it under the fire, and if he comes looking then say you don't know nuffin' about it.
Maybe Herra knows the words a little bit better here, my English vocabulary seriously lacks cooking words.
Mika
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Speaking of funny words, here are some examples of the good-old-language:
suurtehokolmivaihekilowattituntimittari
high | power | three phase | kWh | meter,
or a Power meter that measures the transmitted energy of high power AC lines.
hääyöaate (Try to say this one, there are some wovels in it, right?)
wedding | night | thought
lentokonesuihkuturbiinimoottoriapumekaanikkoaliupseerioppilas
aircraft | jetturbine | engine | co-mechanic | officer | student
This is an actual rank from the Defence forces. Too hard to translate in English without losing the information content.
atomiydinenergiareaktorigeneraattorilauhduttajaturbiiniratasva ihde
atom | nucleus | energy | reactor | generator | cooler | turbine | wheel | gear
- "" -. Too difficult with the prepositions. This is an actual word, though.
Something from our neighboring country, but this is an exception. Swedish words are usually a lot more shorter than this:
nordöstersjökustartilleriflygspaningssimulatoranläggningsmater ielunderhållsuppfölningssystemdiskussionsinläggsförberedelsear beten
Swedish is such a beautiful language. Shade can translate that if he bothers.
Rymdsempiriet slår tillbaka!
Mika
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I think bonfire is more of a kokko... campfire is more appropriate term for nuotio.
Talking about confucing word plays, Finnish has an advantage to most languages because the words conjugate a bit more than in English, and the nouns have 14 (or 15 depending on which ones are counted, IIRC the accusative case has been removed from the table of cases on Finnish language relatively recently) cases that sometimes make verbs look like nouns, or nouns look like verbs, or something in between... Examples:
-Kokko, kokoo kokoon koko kokko. (Kokko [name], gather the whole bonfire together.)
-Koko kokkoko? (The whole bonfire?)
-Koko kokko. (The whole bonfire.)
Hae lakkaa satamasta kun lakkaa satamasta. (When it stops from raining, go and fetch lacquer from harbour.) lakka = lacquer, lakata = either "to stop" or "to apply lacquer to a surface"; sataa = "to rain", satama = harbour; satamasta = either "from harbour" or "from raining"... kinda. So "lakkaa satamasta" can mean either "lacquer from harbour" or "to stop from raining"...
"Kas vain", sanoi kasvain ja kasvoi vain. ("[mildy surprized expression]", said the tumor, and just grew.)
Keksijä Keksi keksi keksin. Keksittyään keksin keksijä Keksi keksi keksineensä keksin. (Inventor Keksi [name, means "Cookie"] invented a cookie. After inventing a cookie, inventor Keksi discovered that he had invented a cookie.)
There are numerous other FUN FUN cases like these that must be a nightmare to anyone trying to learn Finnish. I'ds say it's even more difficult for a foreigner to fully comprehend all the cases, conjugations and nuances on these than it is for a non-english people to figure out what the hell "Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo" actually means... than again, the buffalo sentence is complete hogwash for even most English speakers if I'm not much mistaken, whereas these examples are actually very understandable for native Finnish speakers...
Also, hääyöaie (wedding night intention) has one more vowel in a row than hääyöaate... :p
...and
lentokonesuihkuturbiinimoottoriapumekaanikkoaliupseerioppilas
aircraft | turbojet | engine | co-mechanic | non-commissioned officer | student
Fix'd.
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Of course, German is derived from Latin, so you're partly correct there.
no it's not
It is :P
How so? I've seen no references to suggest such a thing, and in fact the language tree I posted earlier seems to contradict your statement.
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German's not a Neo Latin language but has been influenced by Latin. German's birth was a very particular one, the "creators" of that language chose to use some features of Latin.
English has also been influenced by Latin even if it's not a Neo Latin language.
Even Chinese has been slightly influenced by Latin!
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Ich magst dritten bier SCHNELL! Lawl you're all cool FreeSpacey peeps'
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Non capisco quello che stai dicendo... :P
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- Cold smoking (kylmäsavustus). This one is a little bit more difficult to explain so I won't even try it.
Is it the type of smoking used when making dishes like lox?
Of course, German is derived from Latin, so you're partly correct there.
no it's not
It is :P
Actually I was under the impression that English and German were derived and matured under the influence of other languages like Gaelic.
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Then tell me why in English there are words like "battle", "actor" and "administrator". I don't think they come from Gaelic.
I don't speak German so I can't write examples...but I ensure you that there are many words coming from Latin. As far as I know, Latin has primarily influenced German's grammar, I don't think I can find a lot of words.
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Individual words can and are loaned form surrounding languages.. But that has absolutely nothing to do with one language being derived from the other from which it has loaned a word or two. Or should we simply say that as 'sauna' is a word that exists in English language that the English language is derived from Finnish? (about as logical as saying it would be derived from Latin...) English in any case a Germanic language (West Germanic actually) and not derived from Latin or any other of the Romance language.. Influenced, sure, a great deal. Derived, certainly not.
People tend to dislike wiki but here goes:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanic_languages
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romance_languages
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I was talking about influence. Italian, Spanish and French are obviously closer to Latin than English and German...I was saying that both German and English have been influenced by Latin.
English has been influenced by Latin twice: via Latin directly and via French.
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I was talking about influence. Italian, Spanish and French are obviously closer to Latin than English and German...I was saying that both German and English have been influenced by Latin.
English has been influenced by Latin twice: via Latin directly and via French.
Actually, English and German are very similar languages, more closely related to each other than either are to Latin. And English has been influenced by many languages.
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I was lead under the impression that English started as a dialect of french and eventually became it's own language..
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Actually, English and German are very similar languages, more closely related to each other than either are to Latin. And English has been influenced by many languages.
I didn't say that English and German aren't "relatives" in the post above.
I was lead under the impression that English started as a dialect of french and eventually became it's own language..
Eh...
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Definitely not. English borrows a lot of French words though. I suppose because England and France have had so many dealings with each other throughout history, peaceful or otherwise.
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@HB: You don't speak French, do you? Not the same at all. French is a derivative of Latin, as is Spanish. They are sister languages, although I believe that Spanish is closer to Latin.
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Meh...Tolkien's elven is the best language EVAR. Too bad I never truly bothered to learn it. :sigh:
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@HB: You don't speak French, do you? Not the same at all. French is a derivative of Latin, as is Spanish. They are sister languages, although I believe that Spanish is closer to Latin.
The closest one is Italian, followed by Spanish/Portuguese and then French(I won't mention the others like Romanian) mostly due to the pronunciation.
Ah, I tried to learn Quenya. I was able to write short sentences three years ago.
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And i thought Quenya was easy to learn :P
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Poi dalla = then you <singular> give her, refered to the vag**a, it's a way to say "have sex". "Then have sex"(only for females, of course).
Poi dalle = then you <singular> give them(females, refered to "botte"), it's a way to say "have a fight".
I'm pretty sure you cannot pronounce pöydällä or pöydälle in a form I would recognise. On the other hand, I wouldn't bet that I could pronounce Italian words either.
Ich magst dritten bier SCHNELL! Lawl you're all cool FreeSpacey peeps'
Muhahahaa, I'm also posting under influence! Besides, you're one behind! Salute!
Is it the type of smoking used when making dishes like lox?
If I knew what lox was I could answer this one...
Oh and Herra, check the meaning of "keksi". You are missing one meaning which was used a lot more 50 years ago. I always wondered what the hell my father was talking about when he said keksi while working with wood.
[reverse psychology] Honestly, you foreigners could not really choose much harder language than Finnish when it comes to complexity or conjugations, or verbs changing to nouns and vice versa, with all the in-between layers. It is more like learning to speak Vasudan. Give it up. And now I'm speaking ex-cathedra. [/reverse-psychology]
Damn I hate that I have to write down the actual meanings of my messages, like you couldn't understand it between the lines?
Ah, Chinese might have some curious hidden meanings in the words, but as far as I have understood, the conjugation itself is not so difficult. The pronounciation might be.
Oh, I know nothing about Tolkien elvens, having never bothered to read the books. I only once saw the movie, and didn't think about the different elven dialects or languages. It was not important anyhow.
I need to read some Kalevala to get some good quotes which could be cited under influence...
Mika
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Is it the type of smoking used when making dishes like lox?
If I knew what lox was I could answer this one...
I'm guessing salmon.
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And i thought Quenya was easy to learn :P
:p
Poi dalla = then you <singular> give her, refered to the vag**a, it's a way to say "have sex". "Then have sex"(only for females, of course).
Poi dalle = then you <singular> give them(females, refered to "botte"), it's a way to say "have a fight".
I'm pretty sure you cannot pronounce pöydällä or pöydälle in a form I would recognise. On the other hand, I wouldn't bet that I could pronounce Italian words either.
You posted something about an Italian hearing that so I assumed the pronunciation is similar.
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Germanic languages have a lot of borrowed words from Latin and Greek - just like pretty much any language these days. That doesn't mean Germany would be derived from Latin. It isn't. With the same logic tou could claim that Latin was derived from Greek or Arabic, because there are a lot of Arabic or Greek origin words in Latin. Obviously this isn't the case any more than English is derived from Finnish because the words "sauna" and "puukko" are pretty much assimilated to English... :rolleyes:
Both Germanic and Latinic languages are derived fron Proto-Indo-European language and belong to Indo-European languages. Neither derives from other, but they have influenced each other a lot. Actually, Germany does use some cases that are almost directly borrowed from Latin, whereas more original "Germanic" languages such as Norwegian, Islandic, Swedish and Danish don't. After all, Germanic languages came to Germany from the north, ie. Scandinavia.
English on the other hand is a true whore of Babylon in the sense that it rips off pretty much everything from anywhere. Resistance is futile, you will be assimilated.
The basic structure comes from Germanic languages - after all, Old English or Anglo-Saxon language was the language of the saxon invaders from the mainland when they took a lot of the main island over from Celtic people. At thist stage, Celtic languages had a small influence on what we now know as English... but still, word order and bulk of the vocabulary came from Germanic language of Anglo-Saxon people. Later, Vikings and Normans brought a lot of Scandinavian re-influences to the English language. Then came the French, and a lot of the current spelling and much of the vocabulary comes from French (Latinic languages), as well as a lot of conjugation rules and stuff.
I'm not even going to mention all the other languages that English has assimilated or ripped vocabulary from...
And yeah, keksi is also the pole used to showe stocks of timber around in water while timber rafting them downstream... also, browser cookies are sometimes called keksi in Finnish IT jargon, although I'm not sure if the translation is the most necessary. :rolleyes:
And salmon (like any other fish) can be made both hot smoked or cold smoked. The difference is that in hot smoking, the temperatures are high enough to really cook the food. In cold smoked salmon, the fish isn't really cooked... the temperatures are generally below 30 degrees Celcius, and the smoke just leaves it's taste on the fish, so it's more like smoke-flavoured sushi without fancy gourmet servings. The preservation of cold smoked fish is generally done by salting.
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I have never said that German and English derived from Latin!
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Of course, German is derived from Latin, so you're partly correct there.
no it's not
It is :P
:nervous:
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:lol:
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I said "It is :P"
:wtf:
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Internet is a terrible media for sarcasm unless it's very skillfully done (and even then some people get it wrong), and your choice of smilie doesn't really make it clear if that was the case or not.
Thus I assumed that by "It is :P" you referred to the statement "Of course, German is derived from Latin, so you're partly correct there" with agreement.
So... did you mean what you wrote or not. :rolleyes: ;)
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I have never said it(and grammar's not an opinion, "said" is "said"). I have initially ignored the difference, that is all.
I stated before that German and English aren't Neo Latin languages...you're trying to make me admit the contrary :P
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You posted something about an Italian hearing that so I assumed the pronunciation is similar.
Italian hearing? I think I didn't. It was about a small pronounciation mistake in the end of word; of course one has to know Finnish alphabets to know how to pronounce them. After that it is quite easy to pronounce anything in Finnish.
How would you pronounce Cannae or Pisae? I think for me it would sound like Khannee or Pisaa. Panna would be about the same as "panna" the church curse, with extended weight for n and weighted last a. But the real difference is in the pöytä-word, which will most certainly differ from poi dalle.
Puukko is assimilated in English? I had to check from Wiki, and indeed it is so. They even have sissipuukko in there! It is amazing what kind of heavy duty tool that is.
Now that I remember to correct one misconception about sauna, IT IS NOT ABOUT SEX. Especially in Asia I saw a lot of super saunas with women posing in several interesting positions. Using Finnish word in this context is a misnomer, it doesn't mean anything like that!
And salmon (like any other fish) can be made both hot smoked or cold smoked. The difference is that in hot smoking, the temperatures are high enough to really cook the food. In cold smoked salmon, the fish isn't really cooked... the temperatures are generally below 30 degrees Celcius, and the smoke just leaves it's taste on the fish, so it's more like smoke-flavoured sushi without fancy gourmet servings. The preservation of cold smoked fish is generally done by salting.
This is funny since some people in Lapland consider salmon as a mediocre fish. And pike is considered a replacement of wood that you would otherwise use to set up the campfire...
Ach, one should have an alchometer with his computer that would prevent posting when enjoying over 1 promille... strangely, doesn't seem to affect English too badly, while Finnish would start to suffer already. Make your conclusions about that also.
But this is a fun thread. A little bit of "my dad, your dad" is always welcome.
Mika
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"Pannaan pöydällä" - "Let's f**k on the table" (no need to explain)
"Pannaan pöydälle" - "Set it on the table" (about moving some crate)
Then imagine a Italian man saying this to a Finnish man when they are moving crates. Usually the result is hysteric sniggering from Finns part and they never answer if somebody asks what's so funny. They will probably only say that they understood what you meant.
I might have misenterpreted it, then...
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I have never said it(and grammar's not an opinion, "said" is "said"). I have initially ignored the difference, that is all.
Never said what exactly...? And what you mean by ignoring difference (what difference? :wtf:)?
Also, I can assure you that grammar is a matter of opinion. Public opinion. Because languages evolve, and language defines it's grammar - grammar doesn't define language. Grammar is just a tool that is used to describe the structures of a language - not the opposite (except in case of constructed languages). But we've had this discussion before, though, so no reason to bring that back up...
I stated before that German and English aren't Neo Latin languages...you're trying to make me admit the contrary :P[/i]
No, I'm trying to find out what you meant with the infamous "It is" line. By normal interpretation from context, it sure seems to me that you agreed to the claim that German derives from Latin. If there was some hidden meaning in it, please share some insight onto it. :p
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Depends. Grammar has rules everyone is free to ignore. Ignoring the rules doesn't mean changing them. I said that English and German aren't Neo Latin languages, where's the problem?
German grammar derives from Latin, I'd say... do you know how the German language was born? It had a particular birth. German has a tough grammar for a Germanic language.
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Depends. Grammar has rules everyone is free to ignore. Ignoring the rules doesn't mean changing them. I said that English and German aren't Neo Latin languages, where's the problem?
The problem is that you also most apparently agreed to Germany being derived from Latin. Either you contradicted yourself or are just being otherwise inarticulate.
And grammar isn't a collection of rules for speaking or writing. Rather it's a way to describe how the language works. For people who are learning a language, grammar is an invaluable tool for forming understandable sentences and interpreting the language, and are often used as "rules" in schools because they appare to be so. But that isn't really the case. With sufficient proficiency, a person doesn't need to think of grammar when writing or speaking. But if needed, they can describe the language they produce via tools offered by grammar.
German grammar derives from Latin, I'd say... do you know how the German language was born? It had a particular birth. German has a tough grammar for a Germanic language.
Yeah, I know that modern German as we know it didn't appear in "universal" form until during the 19th and 20th century. Before that, there have been various dialects, High German, Old German and who knows what. Undoubtedly Latin-speaking scholars (church) have affected the structures of German language to certain degree, but I still disagree with German grammar being derived from Latin.
Influence does not mean being derived from something. Germany is still a Germanic language first and foremost, but it is newer and more influenced by other language families than, say, Dutch or Icelandic, which are perhaps the oldest widely spoken North Germanic languages. Alongside Yiddish... which has been influenced by Hebrew et al. :rolleyes:
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Spanish and Italian are the same. (http://www.mrxswebpage.com/spanish.htm)
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Spanish and Italian are the same. (http://www.mrxswebpage.com/spanish.htm)
They're not!
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Spanish and Italian are the same. (http://www.mrxswebpage.com/spanish.htm)
They're not!
Are too!
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Spanish and Italian are the same. (http://www.mrxswebpage.com/spanish.htm)
They're not!
It is :P
edited for quote correctness
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I was at a shooting party several months ago, and an old chap told me, "it is," and I will confidently quote him on this matter.
Huh? How?
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Chief never said that.
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Of course, German is derived from Latin, so you're partly correct there.
no it's not
It is :P
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Must have done something funny with the "Insert Quote" button.
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No I was actually just saying exactly what Mobius had said, from memory though.